Ardern: ‘As long as you leave them a profit margin’

Last night’s debate looked at Labour’s proposed tax on water ‘for those who make a profit from water’ – water bottlers and farmers and viticulturists and horticulturists.

Bill English asked  “How do you maintain profitability while increasing costs?”

Jacinda Ardern: “It’s ok as long as you leave them a profit margin”.

The implication there is that imposing more taxes is ok as long as businesses can still make a bit of a profit.

This suggests a not very good understanding of business, something Ardern could be vulnerable on – especially as Grant Robertson has avoided answering whether Labour would apply Capital Gains Tax to businesses and farms.

 

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63 Comments

  1. David

     /  September 1, 2017

    ipso facto she will subsidise their water use in a dry year if they are going to make a loss. Much like if you have CGT you also have capital losses able to be written off and we are now in a flat to falling market.

    Reply
  2. Blazer

     /  September 1, 2017

    simple business 101..posted on the other thread..’quite easily….you increase the selling price….if the tax on water increases the cost of a cabbage by 0.6c you put the price up.Back to school ..Jenna.
    The margins on some goods are quite fantastic.

    Reply
  3. Until you price yourself out of the market.
    Supermarkets pay as little as possible to the growers so they can make bigger profits.
    If Joe Blogs uses thirty thousand liters to produce the same crop as Hairy Harry who has used sixty thousand liters guess who gets a better income and who sells at a loss !

    Reply
    • Anonymous Coward

       /  September 1, 2017

      How many market gardeners have huge irrigation systems? The ones I’ve seen around the country are mostly on pasture. The price of meat and milk may go up, but as I see it this is more of a tax on the Coca Cola Co, who has spent years taking our water for free and selling it back to us as “PUMP” for $5 a litre – there’s plenty of profit margin there.

      Reply
      • Steveremmington

         /  September 1, 2017

        Considering the Coca Cola Kiwi Blue plant in the Waikato takes their water from the municipal supply which is exempt from the water tax. I understand they pay about $40k a year for upkeep of council owned plant and equipment. Not sure why you think that it is more a tax on them if they are exempt from the tax.

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  September 1, 2017

      Supermarkets are pricks to their suppliers. However, the competition is so intense they work on cent profit margins. That’s why they still employ Swiss rounding.

      In my opinion, economics isn’t economics once it goes past me paying you for a loaf of bread. You start getting this bs.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_rounding

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  September 1, 2017

      you can invent all sorts of far fetched scenarios to bolster your argument,the reality is the numbers have been done and the impact on price is..slight.There are always costs of doing business and they are never consistent.Efficiency and marketing =profitability.Hairy Harry is wasting his time.

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  September 1, 2017

        “the reality is the numbers have been done and the impact on price is..slight.”

        Which is nonsense of course because Labour hasn’t committed to an exact price on water, leaving that job to after the election if they win it – in fact David Parker threatened to raise the tax more than 2% if farmers didn’t play ball and drink the Jacinda Kool-Aid.

        Not to mention letting the Iwi genie out of the bottle in terms of water rights which would cost the govt billions.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  September 1, 2017

          scaremongering nonsense.Do you want a freeze on freight costs as well?As you know diesel/petrol prices fluctuate ,and there are many variables in business that have to be managed.By now you must feel like you’re fighting…a losing battle.

          Reply
          • Brown

             /  September 1, 2017

            No one is talking about an increase in fuel taxes on a national basis so that’s a red herring. Now you have mentioned it however, I expect to see Labour announce it as a possibility although they have no idea about the numbers. Trust them, they know what they are doing.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  September 1, 2017

              its not a red herring…producers deal with it every day,and movements in exchange rates and interest rates.There are many variables associated with profitable business,to state the bleedin..obvious.

        • Anonymous Coward

           /  September 1, 2017

          Whatever happens, I doubt labours water policy will inspire one of these like nationals meddling did….

          Reply
      • Andrew

         /  September 1, 2017

        The impact on price may be slight, but for me this has never been the issue. This tax will still (as reported by Labour) take 100 million dollars out of the rural economy. These are the agri businesses, garages, small business owners, who will all loose out to the tune of 100 million a year. At a time where we want more people to move to the regions.

        As has been stated before, this tax will do nothing to clean up the regions waterways as highly irrigated regions have the cleanest water. The areas with worse water have very little irrigation so will benefit the least from this tax.

        Tax the water bottlers buy all means, but leave the productive sector alone. Tax the polluters, not the producers.

        Reply
        • Brown

           /  September 1, 2017

          Sucking money out will reduce business profit and the tax take as well. Labour’s view will no doubt be that these are all rich pricks paying no tax anyway.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  September 1, 2017

            alot of those using irrigation which was basically funded by taxpayers,also enjoy low labour costs by employing foreign workers.Some people you can never do enough for.As for tax,you do not need to be Einstein to realise as Sam Morgan confirmed,the rich pay SFA.THE POOR HAVE NO NEED OF TAX HAVENS .

            Reply
            • Corky.

               /  September 1, 2017

              Its looking by the day, nay, the hour, your faith in Labour will be put to the test when they become the government. I will have my chippies ready while you give us a blow by blow account of how Labour will stuffthe economy.

              BTW…i already pay for my water. Its called rates and a regional council tax.

              ”THE POOR HAVE NO NEED OF TAX HAVENS .”

              Quite true, who needs money when the state supports you?

            • David

               /  September 1, 2017

              “BTW…i already pay for my water. Its called rates and a regional council tax.”

              Technically, your not paying for the water, your simply paying for the treatment and distribution of it.

            • Corky.

               /  September 1, 2017

              Fair enough. You used the word ‘technically.’

        • Gezza

           /  September 1, 2017

          who will all loose out to the tune of 100 million a year.
          This way of putting things always makes me laff, tbh. Talk about extremism.What are they all making – a fkn billion a year? Ordinary folk don’t swallow this sort of shit. They go – how much flippin use is my paltry 20 bucks if my kids’ education is putting them or us in the poorhouse.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  September 1, 2017

            PS: To save you from a possible potential savaging later from an MA Hons Eng Lit – I might as well tell you now that they don’t “loose” out, they lose out, the poor sods.

            Reply
          • Andrew

             /  September 1, 2017

            “This way of putting things always makes me laff, tbh. Talk about extremism.What are they all making – a fkn billion a year? ”

            What are you saying exactly? That my argument makes you laugh? That somehow 100 million a year is nothing?

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  September 1, 2017

              That’s just a start – with Labour tax always goes up so expect this to be increased in following years.

            • Anonymous Coward

               /  September 1, 2017

              But with National does it go back down again? Not likely.

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              No. That presenting often tiny amounts, as they might actually affect individuals in their own particular or specific circumstances in an aggregated way to make them sound *massively* large, might work on impressing billionaires, but don’t make no never mind to Joe Blogs (the one with the wotsit, not the one with the wotnot).

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              @ PDB

              You’re hyperventilating. You are not facing ruination so for heaven’s stop carrying on like the fkn apocalyse is rushing headlong at you! It’s just getting embarrassing reading this stuff.

              Bill’s probably still gonna just scrape in, but be desperate & lost for ideas to fix some of the messes, & if he’s got any clues at all he’ll propose a coalition with Jacinda’s lot, bring the Maori Party in on it, boot the Silver Fox into oblivion & we’ll all sail on happily into the watch it sunshine in the best little kumara patch in de whol’ damn worl’!

              Trust me bud! 👍🏼 When have I ever put ya crook? 😳

            • PDB

               /  September 1, 2017

              AC: Considering National are offering tax cuts…….far more likely than Labour.

            • PDB

               /  September 1, 2017

              G – you are the one sounding a bit flustered, am I worrying you?

              Labour/National grand coalition isn’t a goer. Where’s Alan nowadays? He was like a second father to you and his calming nature could be just what you need in such troubled times.

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              I’m not flustered at all, PDB. Don’t start all that flamin projecting nonsense Corky got into.

              Number of fucks given: < 2

              We'll end up with whatever government we end up with. It's not worth losing sleep over. And it won't be a disaster either way.

            • Blazer

               /  September 1, 2017

              @PDB..Labour have tax cut on the menu…too.

            • PDB

               /  September 1, 2017

              @Blazer – yes, cutting the tax cut……..

              @Gezza – if we took the attitude on every post of ‘whatever we end up with we will get’ PG might as well close the site down as what’s the point of discussing/debating……anything?

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              Stay with me 👷 PDB 🤕 – you’re slipping even further from reality. I’m just trying to keep you grounded. You’re catastrophising.

  4. robertguyton

     /  September 1, 2017

    Ruataniwha should be a red flag to you water-gluttons!

    Reply
  5. Conspiratoor

     /  September 1, 2017

    She is partly right. Tax foreign owned bottlers till their eyes weep, they are parasites. Manage farmers and growers

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  September 1, 2017

      Given ya an uptick. Don’t expect anutha in a hurry after you wimped out like that last nite.

      Reply
      • Conspiratoor

         /  September 1, 2017

        Pity G, I’m one of the few talking sense. Reminds me, where’s the colonel?

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  September 1, 2017

          Not sure. Blazer might know. From something he said to me the other the other day.
          Hope he’s ok. (The colonel I mean.)

          But never mind that for now – we were saying – who do you think you’ll vote for – candidate & party & why?

          Or are you too embarrassed to say?
          (That’s ok – btw. Just would appreciate being told so I know not to keep asking. 👍🏼)

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  September 1, 2017

            * sorry about the stutter.

            Reply
          • Conspiratoor

             /  September 1, 2017

            I’ve have an answer for you G but I’ve fallen on bad company tonight. Enlightenment to follow on the moro

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              Christ! Hope they’re ok? Do they need medical attention?

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              How did it happen c? How many bloody single malts have you had?

            • Conspiratoor

               /  September 1, 2017

              Son in law teaching me to mine bitcoins. Priorities G, priorities!

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              If you fell on the poor blighter ya dorty won’t be too impressed.
              As an old zen monk once said to me: “Never lose ya biscuit”. He was on a Harley too. No jandals❗️So listen up!

            • Conspiratoor

               /  September 1, 2017

              G, not sure if you’re into luxury cars but maclaren have just begun accepting bitcoins. Fancy a 570s for 5 minutes work?

            • Gezza

               /  September 1, 2017

              Where would I park the bloody thing?
              I’d have to get rid of Sir Alan’s old Bentley or the Roller!
              Not bloody likely!

    • Brown

       /  September 1, 2017

      What does Helen’s free trade agreement with China say about taxing Chinese businesses here?

      Reply

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