Ardern – not too young but rattled

A  Herald ZB Kantar TNS poll shows that most people don’t think Jacinda Ardern is too young to be Prime Minister. Age no barrier for Jacinda Ardern, new poll says

The actual question asked isn’t clear, but here are the reported results:

  • Her age should have no bearing on how voters view her 44%
  • Her age could be an advantage as a Prime Minister in a modern government 22%
  • She was too young and inexperienced as a political party leader to take on the top job 28%

Youth and inexperience are not the same.

Not surprisingly older people thought she was too young or experienced – 43% of over sixties.

And “More than three-quarters of 18-to-29-year-olds either said her age was irrelevant or that it was a positive.”

The poll of 1000 people took place between September 13 and 19 and has a margin of error of 3.1 per cent.

No sign of them polling Bill English, James Shaw or Winston Peters on the suitability of their age or experience – or staleness.

Also NZH: The verdicts on the final Bill English vs Jacinda Ardern leaders’ debate

Audrey Young: Winner? Bill English

Jacinda Ardern was on the defensive for most of the debate, possibly because the 1News poll showing a dive for Labour knocked the stuffing out of her.

English won more points, but he didn’t shine. He wasn’t very nimble and it looked as though the campaign had taken its toll.

The campaign has taken it’s toll on many of us, but understandable the party leaders are getting jaded and a tad tired of repeated the same stuff over and over.

Toby Manhire: Winner? Draw

Ardern looked properly riled, challenging English to look her in the eye and repeat the claim. He was sticking with his hole, but gave a little ground.

She called him Bill countless times; he didn’t say Jacinda but he did tell voters they had a choice, several thousand times over.

…it’s hard imagine anyone having had their mind changed.

Heather du Plessis-Allan: Winner? Bill English

It’s the first time Ardern has looked rattled. She struggled to maintain her usually ever-present smile.

Ardern struggled to defend her plans on a number of fronts but performed well on the health crisis.

English has never looked so in command this campaign.

He attacked both Labour and the Greens for hopping on the water tax “populist bandwagon”, over-talked Ardern and pulled her up on facts.

Liam Dann: Winner? Bill English

Ardern never got a roll on.

English smiled and talked his way through the tricky issues like a Prime Ministerial robot.

In the brief moments where he was vulnerable – the fuel pipeline debacle, poverty and the imaginary fiscal hole – Ardern needed to go for the knockout.

In fact, never mind the boxing analogies, she needed to hit him in the nuts like a street fighter. It’s probably to her credit as a person that she didn’t but it handed English a clear points victory.

If you haven’t voted yet make up your mind and do it.

I’m going to vote on Saturday. I’m still observing and pondering.

Leave a comment

60 Comments

  1. Tipene

     /  21st September 2017

    It’s the first time Ardern has looked rattled. She struggled to maintain her usually ever-present smile”:

    Uh, yeah, being constantly passive-aggressive in presentation is an exercise in cognitive weariness, and eventually the mind says “enough”.

    Irony of the night? A woman whose mentor decries “misogyny and sexism” going back to the flowing pillow-hair “come hither” look accentuating her attractiveness.

    Elections aye? Gotta love ’em.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  21st September 2017

      I have seen her looking rattled before. The long hair is more suitable for a teenager, and often looks unkempt.

      I do see age as relevant-within reason, of course. She hasn’t been in a position of responsibility long enough and hasn’t the experience to handle it.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  21st September 2017

        what experience did Key have in being a P.M?

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  21st September 2017

          What a stupid question.

          He had a lot of experience as an MP and Minister before he became PM. Does that clear up your confusion ?

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  21st September 2017

            no- Ardern has been in Parliament as long as Key was.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              The problem is that she was an under-achiever.
              Nevertheless, that deficiency has certainly been remedied & her ambition & her skills – and she definitely has both – are on very vibrant display. I think she’s been great.

            • Skills?? Without a VERY compliant MSM she’d be polling worse than David Shearer. Her ambition it appears is to be the sock puppet for the real leader behind the scenes, the ‘unelectable as PM’ Grant Robertson – after all he overruled her ‘Captains call’ on tax. Though I’m a little confused how National was able to successfully attack Labour’s tax policy when Ardern had already been totally ‘upfront’, ‘honest’ and fully ‘transparent’ as to what it entailed?

              Give English his dues he worked his ass off on the campaign trail and wasn’t afraid to go to areas where he was likely to get some stick. In comparison Ardern stuck to mainly hanging around university students and non-voting age school children & avoided any situation where she may be confronted on policy. A real leader would have fronted up to the farmers protesting in her home town.

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              I think you’re underestimating her. She hasn’t got Grant hanging out of the back pocket of her levis when she’s touring the factories & chatting up the media – nor is he whispering instructions into an earpiece when she fronts up against granddad Bill & effectively calls him a sly old duffer who’s telling porkies.

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              A real leader would have fronted up to the farmers protesting in her home town.

              An idiot would. Too much at stake to let something like that get out of hand in front of the tv cameras. They won’t be voting for her. She crashed a bloody Massey Fergusson, for God’s sake! She’s concentrating on her constituency & swing voters.

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              And I’ve given you a downtick at last for talking shit on that one!

            • Blazer

               /  22nd September 2017

              @PDB….’Though I’m a little confused how National was able to successfully attack Labour’s tax policy ‘….I’ll …unconfuse’..you..its called telling lies and keep repeating them,…it seems to work for National,I mean they couldn’t sway voters on their record for the last 9 years.

  2. Corky

     /  21st September 2017

    I must confess, I thought Jacinda looked ravishing on the night. The only thing that ruined my eye candy was the camera panning to Bill who vacillated between a contrite school boy persona and a possum caught in the headlights. The jarring became too much in the end so blind folded myself and just listened.

    Of course we must remember the death of Jacindas grandmother. That probably affected her performance.

    Reply
  3. Blazer

     /  21st September 2017

    Jacinda is articulate ,prepared and has presecence,things lacking in her predecessors.Bill’s presentation has improved out of sight,but he has now abandoned any moral virtue and taken the oath to follow Nationals New Order, of say and do anything if it means…power.

    Reply
  4. Well I thought she looked better, really didn’t like the screaming skull, hair tucked behind her ears, grey complexion of the earlier debates.
    But it was still “trust us” we can do this better than them.
    So who do we trust, someone whose financial wizard has absolutely no background in the subject or the two guys who got us passed three earthquakes and the world financial crisis.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  21st September 2017

      you seem to forget,Bill English was the Minister of Finance ‘wizard’ for those incidents…it is now failed economic student , zoologist and serial liar Steven Joyce who is trying to be a …’wizard’.

      Reply
      • So Bill English will have no influence on economic policy & direction just because he is PM? If Ardern was PM would she be of any help to Robertson who is even less economically qualified than Steven Joyce who actually achieved something in the business world in creating & growing radioworks?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  21st September 2017

          response was to Ray about ‘wizardry’.Joyce is like Groser and some other National identities…all hat…and no…cattle.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  21st September 2017

            You are very quck to accuse people of lying, and I wonder if you would do it under your real name when you have no evidence as a rule. Your disagreement with something doesn’t make it a lie.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  21st September 2017

              [deleted for using incorrect name. PG]

            • Andrew

               /  21st September 2017

              No he didn’t. There IS an 11 billion dollar issue in Labour’s budget. It’s not a issue with the actual numbers that make up the budget (this is what BERL checked), but the budget itself.

              The issue that it is just not believable that Labour could have no new spending in 2019 and 2020, except in health and education. The $11 billion is National’s assessment of what Labour would actually spend.

            • The MSM are totally focused on the ‘hole’ being in a certain place whereby all Labour have done is move the hole elsewhere, in this case into years 2&3 where no allowances have been made for new spending outside of Health & Education. If that was the case why are the unions not up in arms for all those govt workers affected? Are they really happy that teachers for instance have future pay increases & extra spending budgeted for whilst police officers don’t?

              To me it is obvious that no spending is there for years 2&3 because Labour was going to cover this ‘hole’ with taxes suggested by their year one working group including a CGT and a land tax. Now that they’ve had to do a big U-turn on implementing any working group suggested taxes before the 2020 election they are in a big financial bind if they become govt.

      • Andrew

         /  21st September 2017

        Joyce is not a serial liar. The reds are just going troppo because he is calling them on their bullcrap.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  21st September 2017

          Calling someone a liar is a very serious accusation. It’s libellous. One needs to be very sure that the person actually is one before making this allegation.

          Blazer must be a very honest person. He is so honest that to him taking two eclairs that someone had left behind at the supermarket is theft and shoplifting,(even though someone had already paid for them) and a crime on the same level as long-term benefit fraud and electoral fraud !

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  21st September 2017

            its a question of honesty…whether its 2 eclairs or someones wallet,you took something that did not belong to you…not surprisingly you seek to downplay the morality of the issue and justify your nefarious…conduct.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st September 2017

              What would you have done ? Handed them to thre Police ? Put an ad in the paper ? The shop would not be able to resell these things, and nobody would drive back to see if they were still there, even if they noticed that they didn’t have them. Get over it.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st September 2017

              You either can’t or won’t see that anything like that would have to be thrown out. it’s not like a tin or packet that could be donated. I don’t what the shop’s policy is on reselling things that people accidentally leave behind. I hope that someone found the pizza that I left behind before the staff did and put it in the bin.

              If you can’t see the difference between two very perishable eclairs and a wallet, you must be very dim indeed. In my time I have handed in several wallets, two obviously valuable phones and quite a few other things. I don’t hand in biros or $2 coins that I find in the street.

          • Blazer

             /  21st September 2017

            [deleted for not using proper names. PG]

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st September 2017

              Oh, surely not for something so small-who would drive back for something that cost less than $2 ? It wouldn’t be worth the time and petrol. It didn’t occur to me to go back when I left a bag of bread rolls in a shop, my time was worth more than they were.

              Anyone who ‘alerted staff’ over a tiny item of such low value that nobody would waste time looking for would look like an idiot.

              It would be like telling them that a packet of chewing gum had been left behind. I saw an unopened chocolate bar outside a supermarket, but I just walked past, I didn’t run back in with it.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  21st September 2017

              Espece d’abrut, tu encules les mouches.

        • Blazer

           /  21st September 2017

          ‘. There IS an 11 billion dollar issue in Labour’s budget.’…YOU AND bILL MAKE 3 WHO THINK SO…keep peddling the…lie.

          Reply
          • Andrew

             /  21st September 2017

            Joyce’s argument from the beginning has been an “either/or” one. Either Labour has a massive black hole, or it is proposing “zero Budgets” in its second and third year in government.

            The MSM have concentrated on part one and ignored the second part.

            Reply
        • Patzcuaro

           /  21st September 2017

          @Andrew I have agree with you Joyce isn’t a serial liar, he just has a alternative view of the truth.

          Reply
  5. unitedtribes2

     /  21st September 2017

    She was on the back foot after the struggles she has faced over the past week or so when voters and reporters on both sides have started to wake up to the implications of a JA government. I thought she did quite well under these circumstances but the telling thing that put me off was the closing message. Bills was good plain speaking why you need to Vote National. When JA turned to face the camera all I saw was an angry face snarling ay me. I missed the message entirely.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  21st September 2017

      Well, I was watching too, and when she looked at me she was bravely giving it her best shot to win me over, & she wasn’t snarling at me, so … you might be extraordinarily prone to wrongly perceive people as reflecting back how you feel about them, possibly?

      Do you get snarled at a lot? Do you maybe snarl a lot at others? Have a think. Get back to me?

      Reply
  6. David

     /  21st September 2017

    The age thing is quite interesting given the surge in the youngish Tony Blair/Obama era and now we have Sanders, Trump, Corbyn and May, Cameron, perhaps the experience of these younger leaders has been pretty awful.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  21st September 2017

      so who are the elder statesmen in the west who have been impressive in recent times…?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  21st September 2017

        Look them up.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  21st September 2017

          he can’t name…any.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  21st September 2017

            How is it relevant to what he said?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  21st September 2017

              because what he said…doesn’t make any sense.

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              He’s musing. He poses a question that’s an interesting one. It makes sense. Yours doesn’t because it answers his question with a question about something that is not implied in his.

            • Blazer always answers with a question because he has no answers.

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              Well then. Give me a fekin uptick ya mingy beggar!

            • You got a downtick instead for not saying ‘please’ (and also for thinking Ardern is up to much).

            • Gezza

               /  21st September 2017

              Bloody typical. This is why people say rude things about you when you visit the gents at the pub!

            • Blazer

               /  22nd September 2017

              what is your answer to the ‘interesting question’…he poses?

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              My answer is:
              Perhaps. I don’t know. Lange got the arse card. Obama ended up sadly. Blair is a disgrace who should really be in prison for war crimes, playing cards in a four-to-a-cell with Bush, Rumsfeld & Cheney, while a Shiite Court debates whether they should follow Saddam to the gallows. David Cameron. They’ve all been replaced by older leaders.

              But on the other hand the French have plumped for Macron, probably they’re going to regret this, but, we’ll see, & the Canadians are giving it a bash with young Justin. So it’s really a case of wait & see how that works out in the long run.

            • Blazer

               /  22nd September 2017

              @Kitty I’ve put your scenario to 3 people today…2 say they would just leave it where it is,1 said they would tell staff.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              @ Kitty
              Must say, I wouldn’t do it. Mum & dad would both say uh uh.
              Sin.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              Well, Mum woulda said it.
              Dad woulda said: Listen to your mother.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              PS: The reason I wouldn’t do it is I’m only 5 minutes away from the supermarket & I would’ve gone back for them, with my docket, because I paid for them, & I wanted them. So I would assume someone else might do that too.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  22nd September 2017

            Filgor asinus et invidus est. Non placet.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd September 2017

              Eheu, mea culpa, fulgor non filgor est, Sed asinus et invidus est.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              Korero angitu, wahine. Kua mate nga Roma.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd September 2017

              Poor old Blaze, he is a sad and bitter person as well as being asinus. Asinus et invidus-stupid and spiteful.

            • Fight4NZ

               /  22nd September 2017

              Tautoko mo te reo Maori. Ka pai

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  22nd September 2017

              Latinum non scies ? Tristis est.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd September 2017

              Latin & Maori are very similar. I detested Latin. Maori, what little I know of it, is richer. I preferred French. The language, not the people.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  23rd September 2017

              Richer than Latin ? You should see my Latin Dictionary-I have an old Latin-English and a smaller one with English-Latin. The old Latin-English only is thin paper, small print and is as thick as the palm of my hand is wide-and it’s the smaller version of that particular one. I hate to think what size the larger one was. Latin is extremely complex and has an enormous number of words.

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