Open Forum – Sunday

24 September 2017

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67 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  September 24, 2017

    Hugely disappointed at the fate of Marama & Te Ururoa.
    Absolutely no regrets, & no apologies, for how I voted.
    Most carefully considered votes I’ve ever cast.
    That’s down to this blog, & the people who inform intelligently with their korero.
    I voted for what I believed in the most.
    I accept the result.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  September 24, 2017

      Why were you trying to overturn what Maori wanted, Sir Gerald?

      • Gezza

         /  September 24, 2017

        It’s not clear from the result what Maori want, I would suggest, Sir Alan.
        I’m not sure what Labour is offering them? Maori Party website was very well done, very clear what they wanted.

        I watched the video clip in the Stuff.co article. Marama’s hurt & angry. She needs to have another think about strategy. What went wrong. They were koreroing. Were they listening? She won’t give up or disappear though.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  September 24, 2017

          I don’t suppose that all Maori people want exactly the same thing, any more than all pakehas do.

          I hope that Marama’s not going to be a bad loser. That always looks bad-I remember when Mike Moore was very ungracious in defeat.

    • Te Ururoa achieved much for Maoridom that could not have been achieved in opposition. John Key’s master stroke in including the Maori Party when initially he didn’t need to. A loss to Parliament, I think.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  September 24, 2017

        I saw her hissy fit on the news-not very edifying as she spat out that the voters were like rats going back to a sinking ship (or something like that) and an abused wife going back to the abuser.

        I hope that the Minternets will finally get the message. And the Conservatives.

        typo-Pakehas, not pakehas.

  2. The sun came up this morning, albeit an hour earlier than usual 🙂

    • Gezza

       /  September 24, 2017

      Sht !
      Thanks Duncan.
      I forgot.
      Bugger, I’ve got nine clocks to reset. Counting the car!

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  September 24, 2017

        Bugger, I forgot, too, and I have a plethora of clocks as my sense of time is very poor . One in every room….what a pain in the bum resetting the whole damned lot is.

  3. Corky

     /  September 24, 2017

    Now that my Organic Green Tea is kicking in, it’s just dawned on me, Labour have huge problems with Maori. Labour may as well chuck their water tax unless they want a Maori caucus revolt followed by court action. And what of the Maori seats?

    As hard as I try I can’t see how Wellington Central can be resiled with Maori Central. That’s a problem Jacinda can look forward to.

    But overall I can’t believe how dumb Maori have been by going back to a Party that treats them as ‘house boys’.

    As for the next government. What government? It’ll be a huge exercise in growth destroying
    compromise. Just how bad that will be can be seen by National not being able to pass RMA changes because Peter Dunn didn’t want it. That really affected housing develpoment.

    Geez, what a mess.

    • Gezza

       /  September 24, 2017

      You mean reconciled, not resiled, I suspect. But you raise very valid points.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  September 24, 2017

        House boys ? IN NZ ?

        That’s insulting to both sides.

        Why do some people assume that being Maori makes one a clone ?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  September 24, 2017

      And Dunne’s cowardice still didn’t save his seat.

    • Maggy Wassilieff

       /  September 24, 2017

      I see two possibilities:
      The Maori Labour MPs get their act together and form a strong coordinated group that shakes the foundations of the Labour hierarchy;
      or, they all sit on their backsides and just carry on as they always have.

  4. Despite the rhetoric from James Shaw and just a few TV panelists, that result was not an overriding vote for change per se. National only dropped two seats, a remarkable endorsement of their general direction.

    • I agree. Shaw has an agenda but he risks overplaying his hand, which has about half as many MPs in it as they had in the last term.

  5. Sorry to see David Seymour making what was effectively a concession speech, expecting to be, in his words, in opposition. Threw on the towel too soon, methinks.

  6. Sad to hear the commentators talking about Winston Peters hating David Seymour, hating the Greens and hating Bill English. Really? Is that what we’ve come down to? Or is it more a comment on our commentariat?

  7. Kevin

     /  September 24, 2017

    I was hoping for more crying and gnashing of teeth over at The Standard. Oh well, still only the morning.

    • They tend to stay away and quiet when they don’t like the news.

      I expect they are unsure how to think at the moment. Can they get into government or not?

  8. Corky

     /  September 24, 2017

    While the election result is still to be settled, what isn’t in question is who knows about boxing, and who doesn’t.

    Blazer, who previously became an expert in 10 minutes by researching online, tried telling me a load of bs regarding Mike Tyson and Joseph Parker.

    He was, as expected, proven wrong today. Enough said. Matter closed.

    • Gezza

       /  September 24, 2017

      Good to get that out of the way before any unpleasantness could develop. 👍🏼

    • Blazer

       /  September 24, 2017

      well Corky,you were made to look stupid in our last engagement about boxing.Back for a rematch are you?I can name at least a dozen heavyweights that would deal to…Parker,he is useful but not top class.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  September 24, 2017

        Deal to ? That’s done in games of cards. People are dealt with.

        • Blazer

           /  September 24, 2017

          not in the vernacular of pugilists…

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  September 24, 2017

            Well, I suppose that they are not the intellectuals of the sporting world-all those blows to the head-and perhaps the fans aren’t either.

  9. phantom snowflake

     /  September 24, 2017

    Definitely my weirdest election night ever; spent in a neoliberal fortress with a group that included 2 accountants, a futures trader, a health services manager and a christian minister. (The minister is whanau) I was incredibly aware of the disconnect between two of the worlds I walk in; last night’s world and the underclass, the precariat. Because I am of low social status (introvert, humble, not self-promoting) I was able to observe without having to give my opinions. Which are that yes, National delivers “sound economic management”, but only to the privileged. For the poor, “the economy” has tanked. So many of us, including, I’m sure, many who comment here live in a bubble, and we are so much less for that.
    Your mission, should you choose to accept it: Find a homeless beggar. Sit down next to them, on their level. Spend 5 minutes talking, and most of all listening about their life. Try to really connect, to imagine what it might be like to be them on a daily basis. The whole world will be enriched by this small action.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  September 24, 2017

      I would expect to find a life tanked by mental illness, drugs and stuffed up relationships. None of that has anything to do with the economy?

      • phantom snowflake

         /  September 24, 2017

        If that is all you would expect, then that is all you would find.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  September 24, 2017

          And you?

          • phantom snowflake

             /  September 24, 2017

            I’m not sure I can give you a useful answer (with words). But perhaps the experience I am suggesting might.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 24, 2017

              Then you just contradicted your previous assertion.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  September 24, 2017

              “contradicted” “assertion”. No, this isn’t one of your debates. I realise you don’t get it but that’s ok, what I wrote was not for you. However you are most welcome to have the last word if you so wish…

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  September 24, 2017

              I have done so, more than once; I spent some time sitting on the steps of Christchurch Cathedral with an old soldier, now an alkie. I have had conversations with druggies, but didn’t pry into their lives as if I was a nosy do-gooder. It’s none of my business.

              Was the whole world enriched by this ? I suspect not. How could it be ?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  September 24, 2017

              I gave your first comment an uptick and was genuinely interested in what you had to say but am disappointed to find it is nothing.

    • PDB

       /  September 24, 2017

      “Find a homeless beggar”

      Offer them food and they’ll tell you to piss off as all they want is money to feed the habit.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  September 24, 2017

        Not here, PDB. My stepdaughter bought a beggar a sandwich and he burst into tears. Another was standing in the road with a sign saying “Destitute. I need a job.”. This is a different world.

        • PDB

           /  September 24, 2017

          I was talking more the ‘Queen Street, Auckland’ type variety.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  September 24, 2017

            Yes, I don’t know the Queen St kind – very rarely walk there and didn’t see any last visit.

            • PDB

               /  September 24, 2017

              Was there very recently and if not careful you trip up on them.

  10. Hey Pete, did you finally decide who to vote for? Once in the booth? 🙂

    • Blazer

       /  September 24, 2017

      I’m sure he made up his mind a long time ago.

      • Corky

         /  September 24, 2017

        Pete had no choice, Blazer. When your countries prosperity is in the balance there is only one way to go..NATIONAL. 💪

        • Gezza

           /  September 24, 2017

          So did you vote for them after all, then, Mr Muscle?
          Did you finally have the biscuit !

  11. Whatever your political bent, and whether you are disappointed or happyish about the results, both electorate and party, you have to give respect to the hundreds of candidates who put themselves out there to further the interests of their particular cause. In most cases it helped to improve the dialogue from the other candidates and helped to increase buy in from voters.

  12. Say what you like about the process, Jacinda’s rapid elevation and subsequent public interest has resulted in a stronger opposition – whether it finally ends up being Labour or National! In many respects, National has had it too easy for too long.

    • Gezza

       /  September 24, 2017

      She did a fantastic job. She’s in the driver’s seat & staying there.

      • Gezza

         /  September 24, 2017

        She got the job on 1 August. Labour was utterly tanking!
        I wrote her off as an airhead.
        She had a crew who couldn’t even ever pull off screwing National at Question Time.
        She rescued this party single handed.

  13. Corky

     /  September 24, 2017

    Marama Fox throws a ‘Maori Sad”‘ while disrespecting her father in a senses, and having a possible dig at what is considered the laziest MP in parliament… Nanaia Mahuta.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2017/09/nz-voted-for-return-to-the-age-of-colonisation-marama-fox.html

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  September 24, 2017

      Er, yes…I have heard quite a few Maoris saying that Nanaia has done very little during her time as an MP-but as she’s a Mahuta, she doesn’t need to be much else.

    • Gezza

       /  September 26, 2017

      Garn. She’s pissed off! She’s worked hef butt off Corks! This is the thanks she gets?
      And Te Uruoroa. Gone. Replaced by a 🌸 ?

      She’s probably just feelin’ a bit fragile, truth be told.

      Ya throw plenty of “Maori Sad”s here yaself, bud.
      Everybody knows that! 👍🏼

  14. Blazer

     /  September 24, 2017

    say cheese…thought it was Harcourts…for a minute..
    https://www.national.org.nz/team

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  September 24, 2017

      No, Harcourts is a real estate firm. National ia a political party.

    • Fight4NZ

       /  September 24, 2017

      Indistinguishable.

      “Delivering for Harcourts”. That should have been on the billboards.

    • Fight4NZ

       /  September 24, 2017

      Indistinguishable.

      “Delivering for Harcourts”. That should have been on the billboards.

  15. lurcher1948

     /  September 24, 2017

    Watching Fox tv and a blond bimbo with legs up to her neck with beautiful hair stated with her gorgeous kissing lips, she said with a smiling face that TRUMP really scared North Korea with his UN rant, i bet North Korea is scared, she has great legs not the leader of North Korea

  16. sorethumb

     /  September 24, 2017

    Chloe Swarbrick:
    “I have grown up seeing the wheels fall off an economic system which exploits both people and the planet,” she told reporters today. “That life experience speaks for itself.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11925949
    I bet older people have more life experience than her?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  September 24, 2017

      Actually those words speak for themselves. They show how little life experience she really has.

  17. Post Sep. 25th 2017

    1. Israeli media has reported that hundreds of Hezbollah fighters backed by Syrian Army have taken positions within reach of Israel occupied oil-rich Golan Heights, which is making Zionist regime very nervous.
    Amir’ reply: Israel is very nervous because we don’t want wars, fights, killing, casualties. This is exactly what the Muslims are heading for. So, we are nervous. We don’t want to see Lebanese children victims of the irresponsible of Hezbollah and their allies.

    2. Richard E.
    16 hoursuprootedpalestinians.wordpress.com
    When you steal other people’s land and try and crush their spirit under a brutal occupation, they tend to fight you back with whatever utensil may be at their disposal. So please, “just try and understand it. It is not that difficult.” By the way, it wasn’t Abbs who said Israel needs a doctor, it was me. Yours truly. Abbs didn’t have anything to do with it. All I did was retweet what she had tweeted. I don’t know if she is Jewish or not, or whether that’s why you’re trying to beat up on her, but if she is, she’s got more integrity in her little finger, I would suggest that you have in your entire vacuous, hasbara-regurgitating brain.
    Amir’s reply: “steal”? who stole what? Who were the ones to lose the war that they started/opened in order to push the Jews into the sea? You must learn, first, the history then comment. I am asking you the same questions: what did the Arabs/Palestinians in the 20 years 1948-1967? Were they under Israeli occupation? Who disturbed/eliminated them to solve the refugee’s problem? Why, during these years they sent, from time to time, their armies to kill Israelis/Jews. Sorry, you comment something that you don’t know. Refer to reliable sources, not Arab/Muslims.

    3. This is what Israel is doing to achieve peace: Israeli rescue team of 75 soldiers fully equipped for this mission left Israel on the evening of Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year, in order to be in Mexico as soon as possible to help to rescue survivors of the earth quack. In this initial team, there are engineers, doctors, nurses, rescuers. They carry with them light and heavy/special tools, machines and special dogs trained to rescue people under ruins that may help to find survivors. It should be mentioned that the team was flown by IDF Hercules plane and they got special permission from the chief Rabbi of the Army as this mission can save people’s lives. The saving of life is the 1st priority in the Bible/Judaism. Are there any Arab/Muslim teams, to help to save Mexican’s lives, on the way to Mexico representing Muslim countries? Which? Where from? We, Israel, are very proud to be the 1st to assist others in troubles. The blamers of Israel can blame us in whatever they want. They do nothing to help people in troubles while we do it as it is our duty to help poor people.
    4. This Israeli team is not the 1st such a team that was sent to help people overseas. In 2010 an Israeli rescue team traveled all the way to Haiti to find survivors of the earth quack. They got there 80 hours after the disaster. They were the 1st mission to get there. They offered medical aid, in the foldable hospital that they brought with them including medicines. They rescued more than 20 Haitians. Can you Arabs understand what means to rescue 20 people while you kill hundreds of thousands by one irresponsible orders? You don’t appreciate human lives. You see, in heavy darkness, even a candle make a big light. This was what Israel did in Haiti and what Israel is doing in the Middle East region. Israel is a candle in a place of complete darkness that it is because of the Muslims/Palestinians that don’t appreciate lives-just death.
    5. You Richard and you Michael blame Israel f0or stealing/occupying the West Bank. I want to update you that each one of the Palestinians and the people of Jordan as well, must thank Israel, every day, all, day, for their lives as the life drug is water. Both of them don’t have enough of it. They get it from Israel. You the people that have free water don’t understand that there are no lives, even a day without water. So, before you blame Israel just study the material. You have now the chance to learn it after I gave you this rope.
    6. The Israeli team, due to its successes is very popular in Mexico. The Israelis entered a ruined school and managed to save the lives of 26 young children, in addition to the evacuation of another 460 children in the same school that were trapped without an open way out.
    7. Actually, the photos of the Israeli soldiers are very popular in the Mexican media. One of the newspapers published a letter from a reader saying that he wants to join the Mossad. The headline of one of the daily newspapers was “Mexico is in love”. The Mexican social nets are full with appreciation to Israel. An offer to marriage was sent to one girl officer in the Israeli team.
    8. Actually, Israel was the 1st in the world to desalinate water. Yes, the 1st. An Israeli engineer, called Zarhin, was thinking how to solve the water shortage in the world. I can still remember how we laughed at him. To drink sea water? Ridiculous. He was right. We were wrong. Now many people in 7 continents have fresh drinking water. But you boorish Arabs and their brainwashed supporters/Israel hatters don’t know what Israel was/is/will do for the people.
    9. In space: America and Israel are the only 2 states, in the world, that have answers to missiles coming from the space. Now, who designed/built it? Israeli engineers, of course. The same ones that developed many other systems to help people.
    10. Last August Israel launched 2 research satellites by one missile. These 2 satellites will stay in the space couple of years and will research the environment and the weather. This will help the researchers to understand better the changes that take place in the world. One of the 2 satellites was ordered by Italy. They, the Italians, were the 3rd in sequence to launch a satellite in space. Now they bought an Israeli satellite. Can you understand it? This is the quality of Israel and its contribution to the world.
    11. The Israel space industry suffered also failures/problems. One of them was that a satellite was launched to its place, but when it got there it didn’t work. This is a loss of $300 million. But, please be happy for us. The Israeli technology and the engineers managed to fix it, from the ground. 10 days after it was placed in its designation the satellite began to send photos and info that such the engineers/researchers never saw before and the info/data is very important/helpful.
    12. Every year, in Rosh Hashana, the Gov. of Israel statistic bureau publish the results and achievements of the previous year. This year the results are as following: The GPD crossed the $40000. This is total figured, but, if we take into consideration that the Israeli Shekel, is the strongest currency in the world and work out the compensation, we get that the Israeli GDP is $40990. It is higher than the average GDP in the OECD. We must remember that the most developed economies like Germany, Italy, France, and Spain are included in this figure. Another impressive data is that in spite of the hard time, wars, terror 88% of the citizens are happy in Israel and prefer living here. This figure includes the 22% of Arabs. This just strengthen the Palestinian mistake they make by carrying on fighting Israel. The Israeli export exceeded this year, in the 1st times the limit of $100 billion. This is without any natural resources. It is simply brain and hard work.
    13. During his visit to the UN General Assisi, the President of Egypt and P|M Netanyahu met in NY. This was the 1st public meeting. Rumors say that they already met many times in the past, but it was top secret. Anyway, it is good that the sunbeams disinfect the meetings as it is time to make it publicly.
    14. “We give hands to our enemies” was the headline in the newspaper. The story is that in the last 4 years, since Feb. 16th, 2013, Israeli hospital is placed in the Golan Heights to help Syrians. I was there 2 days ago, on Sat. I saw the holy job the doctors do. You, the haters of Israel and the Muslims, must saw it live. There is no difference between the Israelis and the Syrians. The world humanity will continue working after you get off and I hope that the assistance that Israel’s hand to many people in the world will make people to approach us and understand the contribution of Israel to you, too, the haters of Israel.
    15. The Arab manager of the hospital said to me: “I feel that I work in the foreign ministry of Israel, as I meet so many people that come here to see the situation and that invite me, afterwards to lecture in their countries concerning this abnormal/unbelievable situation “We, Israel, sent a clear message to the world that we, the Israelis, are human, we send our assistance, are save lives of our enemies too.” In the last year IDF widened i9ts assistance to the friendly Syrians by supplying them with baby’s food. There is a serious shortage of infant’s food. Lack of basic ingredients can cause the babies unchangeable damages.
    16. To differ from you, the brainwashed blind haters of Israel, there are honored respectable worldwide, none Jewish organizations that do appreciate the Israel activity in Syria. Organizations from USA, France, China, England, Germany, and even Iran and Nato, sent their appreciation to the efforts and help that Israel give to the poor Syrians.
    So, maybe Israel is not that bad like you say? Maybe it is your shortage of info makes you hate Israel or maybe you are blind hater t5hat see nothing other than hating Israel, just for your sick fun.
    I wish all of you, even the haters of Israel to have a wonderful year and I hope that you will read more positive info about Israel and not watch just the BBC, Al Jazeera and such deviators of the truth.
    Please share
    In friendship
    Amir

    • Blazer

       /  September 26, 2017

      ‘The saving of life is the 1st priority in the Bible/Judaism.’…that must be why they blocked the convoy-https://www.irishtimes.com/news/israeli-bombs-block-irish-convoy-with-food-and-water-1.42816