Greens – selling their soul for baubles for Winston?

The Greens have always claimed they are a party of integrity and principle.

But they appear to be so desperate to have some involvement in the next government that they have virtually given Labour a blank signed cheque and are relying on anothe party to negotiate a deal with NZ First that includes Greens, and that maybe gives the Greens some sort of policy wins.

Throughout the election campaign and since their leader James Shaw insisted that they were campaigning to ‘change the government’ and they couldn’t possibly do any sort of a deal with National. Their integrity was at stake.

But Shaw seems to have capitulated almost equal power that NZ First has  (based on their respective party votes) and handed over their future to Labour negotiators.

The Greens have had a number of meetings with Labour, but Winston Peters has refused to allow them to be directly involved in negotiations trying to form a new government.

It has been reported that Labour have been bound by a confidentiality agreement not to tell the Greens what was being negotiated between Labour and NZ First.

From Stuff: Winston Peters will take both options to the NZ First board after Thursday night

Peters has suggested that if a Government was to be formed with Labour, then the inclusion of the Greens as a headline party would be a “gross misrepresentation”.

The NZ First leader was responding to questions over whether it was his understanding that the Green Party would be voting to accept the Labour-NZ First deal, or whether they would simply be voting to approve their deal in separate negotiations with Labour.

It comes from questions over whether the Greens were at the mercy of Labour to fight their corner in dealings with NZ First.

Peters appears to be treating the Greens with contempt. For someone who demands to be treated with respect, whether he deserves it or not, this is highly hypocritical.

And the Greens are letting him treat them with contempt.

Labour have been left trying to negotiate on behalf of the Greens, an awkward position for them, and a weakened position. Labour will not have been able to push hard for their own benefit and policy wins if they have also had to negotiate for the Greens.

Peters has has ruled out including the Greens in partnership talks, forcing Shaw and his team to negotiate with Labour in parallel and in isolation to NZ First negotiations.

Peters said he had nothing against Green Party leader James Shaw.

“You know full well… I’ve never had a bad word with him, or about him that you could possibly quote because I’ve never said something bad about him in my career.”

Has Peters ever said anything about Shaw? He doesn’t need to say anything to show his disdain for a rookie idealist who has been an MP for just 3 years, a party leader for two, and was left trying to save a highly dysfunctional party 6 weeks before the election when co-leader Metiria Turei and two senior MPs stood down.

Shaw confirmed his trust in Ardern to negotiate a deal that won’t see his party locked out in the cold, or pushed beneath NZ First.

He is relying almost entirely on what Labour negotiate for the Greens. Remarkable.

As Government talks enter into their fourth day, Shaw emerged from a two-hour long meeting with Labour and said he was confident he could trust Labour would argue a fair deal on their behalf.

“Jacinda made fairness one of her principle values in the campaign, I’ve known her a number of years and, I said this before the election, I trust her and she seems to be doing a good job of it.

Ardern does seem fair minded – but she has also shown signs of having a ruthless political streak. And she has a responsibility to put the interests of Labour ahead of the Greens.

It just happens that she needs the Greens, and the Greens need Labour

“It’s got to be a stable and responsible Government that’s going to go the full distance in the national interest. Labour are working very hard on ensuring that that happens. That’s of paramount concern to all of us,” he said.

Shaw said he was confident he would be happy with the deal Labour eventually presented to them, but all the partners had to be “pretty sure” of their Government’s direction to ensure stability.

This is alarmingly vague. It looks like Shaw is so desperate to be a part of the next Government he has handed over everything, Green hopes, Green principals and Green integrity, to another political party that is negotiating with a third party that treats him and the Greens with contempt.

“It’s got to be a stable and responsible Government that’s going to go the full distance in the national interest” is going to be either fraught with disappointment and tension, or the Greens are going to be compliant doormats for a Labour-NZ First government.

Peters may enjoy the power he has imposed over the Greens, but how could he see any respect in using them to enable and prop up a government he has concocted?

The Greens had a huge scare this election, dipping below the make or break threshold in polls before recovering enough to survive.

But survival may be a three year battle if they end up making up numbers to enable a government in which one of the other parties has treated them with open contempt, and the other party tried to poach their policies and votes and then stitched up a deal for them when they needed each other.

And losing respect and integrity is just one problem for the Greens. In an email Shaw sent to part supporters on Wednesday, ironically titled We’ve accomplished so much!, Shaw explained:

Although the Green MPs tithe 10% back to the Party (they always have) we now have sixfewer MPs to pay into the coffers this election cycle.

They have dropped from 14 to 8 MPs.

And right now with the campaign bills still to pay, we have a shortfall despite the chance of now being at the heart of a new progressive government.

They have overspent in their campaign?

They will also have less resources in Parliament – fewer MPs means fewer support staff and researchers.

It could be a tough term for the Greens whether they are a tacked on part of the next Government or not.

And with fewer MPs able to travel (tax payer funded) around the country campaigning the next election could be difficult as well.

Especially if they have sold their soul for baubles for Winston.

105 Comments

  1. alloytoo

     /  October 14, 2017

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    A couple meetings with National would have put both Labour and NZF in their place.

    The greens are numpties

    • Even if they didn’t want to be seen to be associating with National the Greens could have stood up to Winston and Labour and and said ‘deal with us or no deal’.

      • alloytoo

         /  October 14, 2017

        Well once they had painted themselves into a corner……idiots.

        • History is repeating itself – I’m most vexed at it.

          If ever there was for FPP this is it. I have no respect for any party that is unable to field any candidate broadly appealing enough to be able to win at least ONE electorate.

          • Blazer

             /  October 14, 2017

            try Epsom…or maybe you think that was won…on..merit!

          • Gezza

             /  October 14, 2017

            Too rigid trav. Voter demographics may change over time. As may Party directions depending on things like number of mums etc.

      • artcroft

         /  October 14, 2017

        Winston would have called their bluff. Politics is a game where you need to be able to think at least two moves ahead. Rules the Greens out straight away.

  2. Corky

     /  October 14, 2017

    If there are any Greens wanting to form a ‘New Green’ party, the sooner after election results, the better. Especially should there be a Labour coalition government.

    A new Green Party needs to put miles on the clock, explain clearly they will enter negotiations with any party post the next election.

    They also need to rid themselves of SJW’S and Maori focused party members. There must be no taint of anything Maori in a new Green Party. Similar to Labour getting rid of Maori at their election night headquarters The change of ambience was quite spectacular compared with election night when Cunliffe was leader.

    • Gezza

       /  October 14, 2017

      Can’t really see the point for you to have to have such a big wank about the Maori thing really Corks.

      If there were policy linkages or affinities with Maori aspirations or stewardship in some areas of New Green policy, even just ecological ones, I doubt they would have much impact on the overall Maori vote. It’ll just be a case of – if they coincide, chur bro 👍🏾.

    • Corky

       /  October 14, 2017

      Gezzas having ‘strange perceptions’ again. My so called wank is about Maori and Polynesians being problematic. Labour know this and try to keep them at arms length. I believe most Labour supporters want that.

      Here’s Cunliffe conceding defeat with drums going in the background. The feel is down market. Compare that to Labours present election night scene..hell ,there was even a shelia in a ballroom gown dress.

      My point: a fledging political party cannot afford to be dragged down with Polynesian bs. Not if they want to be elected. Such a party has plenty of precedences to chose from.

      I offer one called ”perception is everything.” Don’t get it wrong.

      • Gezza

         /  October 14, 2017

        I agree that perception is everything. That is why you are perceived as a persistent, negative, hateful denigrator of everything and everyone you disagree with or dislike. As a Maori-&-Polynesian bashing bigot. As a redneck who for some unknown & undisclosed reason persistently & consistently takes every conceivable opportuntity to be as offensive as possible to – and about Maori, and Maori culture, and as a fantasist about your own perceived superiority of person, politics, and just about fkn everything.

        I appreciate the sharp wit behind a lot of it – unlike yours my sense of humour is sufficiently broad spectrum to even see the funny side of racist jokes, but not repeat them, but even your humour is designed to insult people and put them down.

        I wonder if you are really as happy in your sad, angry little world as you pretend to be?

        • Gezza

           /  October 14, 2017

          Bugger. Now I’m behind in my book-writing.
          Look, have a think Corks.
          Get back to me?

      • Corky

         /  October 14, 2017

        Damn, Gezza socked it to me. I hit a live wire somewhere. As usual, finding where is the hard part. See, Gezza is a far more toxic commentator than I. It’s just he manages to hide it behind an ambiguous softly chiding demeanour. So naturally a blunt instrument like me, whether I’m telling the truth, or not, will always come off looking like a prat. My guess is the video clip was the tipping point for his rage- the Labour Party was dissed.

        **That is why you are perceived as a persistent, negative, hateful denigrator of everything and everyone you disagree with or dislike**

        Yes, I have no doubt that is true. Funny thing is, anyone is free to go back over the posts and see dig after dig after dig from a poster called Gazza. Directly and indirectly l’m called every name under the sun. I think the limit for my name calling is prat, hate filled leftie, vicious Left, vicious bro and liberal drip..kind of soppy compared with what I’m called

        ***As a red neck who for some unknown & undisclosed reason persistently & consistently takes every conceivable opportunity to be as offensive as possible to – and about Maori, and Maori culture.***

        Well, the red-neck part is genetically impossible..attitude, yes. And I have stated the reason why I have zero time for Maori culture. I know what goes on behind the scenes. I know the rorting, the child abuse and the violence. I puke when I see some Maori spokesperson on TV pontificating while off screen he’s sexually abusing his nieces and living off government funding for some dead beat project anyone else would have had zero chance of getting.

        If Maori were helping themselves and weren’t always acting holier than thou, my attitude would change.

        ‘**And as a fantasist about your own perceived superiority of person, politics, and just about fkn everything.’**

        Well, that’s not the first time I’ve been told that. All I would say is there are others who could do with some self reflection in that direction.

        ***I wonder if you are really as happy in your sad, angry little world as you pretend to be?***

        Well, you tell me, Gezza. You have seen how many times the plastic is swiped. I do some of that for your benefit. Yes, I’m quite happy in my little world. However, accounts must always be settled. You understand and by default accept that. That’s why deep down you know I’m a better person than you.

        Crikey, talking about writing a book. Now Gezza has his reply, it’s time for me to get on with big-noting and being persistent.

        • Corky

           /  October 14, 2017

          3rd para Gazza=Gezza

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 14, 2017

          Sir Gerald appears to be suffering from a shortage of sleep and nicotine which has aggravated his legendary sensitivity to things Maori. Expect ructions until further notice.

          • Gezza

             /  October 14, 2017

            Mainly just an act really, Sir Alan. I’ve been a bit bored.

            Happy now though. I have just removed Charlie’s loose, flapping, damaged left aileron feather panel in a lightning quick surgical ‘grab & pull’ strike that was done so quickly & precisely that he never even stopped gobbling & is still totally unaware the operation has been performed, without anaesthetic, & with no ill effects whatever.

            No animals were harmed in the events being reported here.

            😷 👍🏼

            Anyway, I never sleep, I just fall down, like just before, & when I come round I just figure out what time it is, how long I was out for, & carry on like it never happened.

            Has Corky said something? As I scrolled down it looked like he might’ve posted something talking to himself. Could be wrong. I’ll have a look. If I need to, I’ll get back to you.

            Sir Gerald.

          • Gezza

             /  October 14, 2017

            Either Elvis or Ella is down in the stump on station, Sir Alan. Mallard 5-Drake flotilla circling. Light’s fading fast. Just going to quickly pop down with some chunks of lamb steak. See what happens. Back soon.
            Sir Gerald.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              Bloody hell, Sir Alan!
              Cracked it, Sirrah! 👍🏼
              1. Elvis came out, straight away. Drakes went for the meat, Elvis attacked them, bit their webbies – panic, panic.
              2. Elvis was quickly followed out by the monstrous Ellla, who did the same thing! Drakes were allowed to stay safe if they stood off & did not attempt to capture the meat.
              3. Ella was quickky followed out by Tameiti, and then Nuthafulla, & and then an 18 inch long young whippersnapper.
              4. All took the meat, some coming up & going head-out to take it, & wildly circled around & up & down, looking variously at me, the drakes, and for more meat, in the water.
              5. It’s too dark, there may even be more in there. My god from that close up they really are river-sharks!
              6. Ella’s stump – which does have a large footprint in the wai – appears to be Ella’s Eel Hotel !

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              PS: Just thinking about this – either that stump is housing many eels, or they are actually hiding away in multiple places all over my stream – and their sense of smell is so acute, like a shark’s (which the net says is so) that a few chunks of meat thrown into the water summoned them immediately – the light was going, but the water was just suddenly full of them.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              I’ll do it again in the early morning if the light’s good & one of them’s on station & try & video it.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              At last I found something too spicy for Gemma – “medium” lamb saag from our Spice Route cafe. When offered the last pieces she kept her distance as though it was on fire. I did have to get through most of a glass of water while consuming the rest. Maybe your wildlife would be braver.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              Whatever! I’ll be telling Possum no hangi chickens thanx!
              Not unless we can spit roast them afterwards at the very least!

          • Gezza

             /  October 14, 2017

            And finally, just a word of thanks to my downticking sponsors. Without you, none of this would worthwhile doing! 😘😍

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              😡 🙄 * … BE worthwhile doing!
              I love you all … mwah mwah! ❤️💂🏻

        • Gezza

           /  October 14, 2017

          Ok. I’ve read every single word of that response Corky, and I’ve given you an uptick because you have given a cogent reason for most of what you say, even if you lack the gonads to reply directly to me & work thru in discusdion what is wrong with some of it – as I see it.

          Because – for all my teasing – I do NOT take you for a fool, or a popinjay, despite the frequency with which you choose to present yourself as one or the other.

          **Gezza. You have seen how many times the plastic is swiped. I do some of that for your benefit. Yes, I’m quite happy in my little world. However, accounts must always be settled. You understand and by default accept that. That’s why deep down you know I’m a better person than you.**

          I don’t understand what you are saying here. What do you mean I have seen how many times the plastic is swiped (WtF? I have no idea what you fkn do with your eftpos or visa cards), that you do some of that for me (be good to know how?) & that ‘accounts must always be settled, you understand & by default accept that”?

          Spit it out man. I don’t waste time on riddlers. If they can’t communicate clearly & precisely I write them off as time-wasters, not clever.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  October 14, 2017

            “I don’t waste time on riddlers”. Not entirely correct G

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              You get 5 min max.
              After that yaw lips are left flappin in the breeze.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  October 14, 2017

              Time you swiped some plastic G

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              It got 1 second & I moved on, thinking about whether of of those eels was eating a fish 8″ long, or a small eel – it was definitely one or the other. Light wasn’t good enough to see for certain.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              one of those eels, soz. ?

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              More thanx to sponsors
              🦃🌸

  3. robertguyton

     /  October 14, 2017

    The Greens “appear” to have… The Greens “should have …”

    Pete George projects his dislike for The Greens in a post that signifies… nothing.

    • alloytoo

       /  October 14, 2017

      What’s to like about the Greens at the moment?

      They’re not environmentally friendly.
      They’re not economically friendly.
      and the only two members with any morals left before the election.

    • The Greens have revealed themselves as capitulating, spineless and irrelevant. Why should Mr George pretend at anything else. They lack moral fibre, integrity and they certainly lack realpolitik and pragmatism. Selll their souls? Humph, I’m unable to point to anything they’ve achieved or are likely to do so in the generation they wiilll have had a presence by 2020. Weak, ineffectual pushed around prevaricators.

      • Imagine folllowing a single one of them into battle….an old fashioned thought I know, but the image of Shaw in khaki writing a final letter home to his two Mums before he goes over the top is dissrespectful to the memory of any of our service people who fought for his and his caucus’s freedom.

        • Blazer

           /  October 14, 2017

          when it comes to real ‘battles’…the Tories stand well back ,directing the real fighters as to where to meet their maker.Never get their hands dirty…or bloodied.Look at Gallipoli and Paschendale as examples.

          • What has UK politics got to do with this?

            • Blazer

               /  October 14, 2017

              U.K politics..!!!Was the question asked at the relevant time?Ask Trav..what this …means..’ before he goes over the top is dissrespectful to the memory of any of our service people who fought for his and his caucus’s freedom.’!

        • Fight4NZ

           /  October 14, 2017

          Anti smacking Bill springs to mind without trying

      • Blazer

         /  October 14, 2017

        the Blues have revealed themselves as unprincipled liars,and plumbed new depths in dirty politics and character assassination,and it seems there are plenty of voters who do not find that…repugnant.

        • Trevors_elbow

           /  October 14, 2017

          Blazer has revealed as a collective that is driven by hate and jealous….

          You are getting more and more funny with each passing day…. guaranteed laugh reading your posts….

          • Blazer

             /  October 14, 2017

            what an …um..unenviable..SOH..you possess.

            • Trevors_elbow

               /  October 14, 2017

              I’m sure your a parody account. The original blazer used to put forward proper arguments, links to stuff… you though just spew vitriol…. it’s really quite entertain g!!!!

            • Fight4NZ

               /  October 14, 2017

              He’s just bringing down to your level

    • You’re masking things up again. I don’t dislike the Greens, I’ve supported them being in parliament and have voted for them.

      I think that how they are conducting themselves now is very sad and unbecoming of a party that has prided itself on it’s integrity and principled politics.

      I note Robert that you haven’t addressed the message but have chosen again to just attack the messenger, That’s lame.

      Are you happy with how the Greens have handed their future over to Labour and to Winston?

      Do you think Greens can maintain integrity if they prop up a Peters dictated government?

      Do you disagree that Peters is treating the Greens with contempt?

      If you come here you should be prepared to argue your case and express your opinions rather than fly by with cheap shots.

      • robertguyton

         /  October 14, 2017

        “you haven’t addressed the message but have chosen again to just attack the messenger”
        Isn’t that exactly what you have done, Pete, with this post? What “message” are you addressing here? You’re attacking The Greens.
        “you haven’t addressed the message but have chosen again to just attack the messenger”

        • I’m giving my opinion on the situation the Greens are in. the greens are not a person, they’re a political party that should be able to cope with some criticism.

          You don’t seem to be able to cope with criticism of the Greens, and you make it personal.

    • artcroft

       /  October 14, 2017

      Getting worried about what will be revealed next week Robert? Its not to late for James to call Bill.

      • robertguyton

         /  October 14, 2017

        I’ve been “worried” all along, artcroft – aren’t you? No one knows for sure which way it will go. Perhaps you don’t care, aren’t “worried” by the possible outcome, I can’t tell. If you are supremely confident that you know what the result is going to be, I’d suspect you don’t have a very good sense of how the world works.

  4. David

     /  October 14, 2017

    I can see 3 stroppy Green MPs who are unlikely to make a habit of voting for NZ First policy let alone some of Labours, I dont see Shaw having the fortitude to impose discipline. Winston has a stroppy MP too that could easily go rogue.
    So I hope he goes with Jacinda/Shaw.

    • PDB

       /  October 14, 2017

      Hopefully he goes with Labour/Greens – Winston will do long-term damage with whoever he decides to prop up.

      • robertguyton

         /  October 14, 2017

        Just as a side note, and yes, Pete, I am attacking the messanger here, PDB is surely the dimmest commenter on any blog that I know of. His views are worthless, in my view, and yet he delivers them with such confidence! He’s the perfect Right-winger 🙂
        With that off my chest, I’m going to take Pete’s advice and cease visiting and commenting here. It gives me a burst of enjoyment knowing I won’t ever see PDB’s response to my comment about him and while I know that’s pretty childish, it seems perfectly appropriate, for some odd reason 🙂

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 14, 2017

          You just confirm the point I made yesterday, Robert: the Left don’t cope well with contrary views so back to your safe bubble.

        • I didn’t advise anything like that Robert, you’re making things up again.

        • PDB

           /  October 14, 2017

          A poor mans Blazer – must troll harder Robert.

  5. Blazer

     /  October 14, 2017

    hard to take the commentary seriously when it is peppered with…’But they appear to be so desperate’-‘But Shaw seems to have ‘-‘It has been reported that Labour’-‘This is alarmingly vague’-‘ if they have sold their soul for baubles for Winston’
    in other words all speculation,and the work of a blue supporter interviewing their…!!

    • Someone else choosing to just criticise – notably without any arguments.

      I am saying how things appear to me, and I know I’m far from the only one who sees things similarly.

      And “the work of a blue supporter” is a lame diss, and false. I support what I see as positive in any party, and don’t support weaknesses – and right now the Greens look very weak. Do you disagree, or do you just not like it being said?

      • Blazer

         /  October 14, 2017

        your article is not based on fact,merely speculation ,as you concede.The Greens run their own show,their own way.They do not have to behave how others expect them to.

        • Agreed, none of the parties “have to behave how others expect them to.” However, as commenters and voters with skin in the game, it’s our interest and in our interest to observe and evaluate from the sidelines.

          • Blazer

             /  October 14, 2017

            no one wishes to deny you that…right.Most voters I imagine, observe and evaluate the parties before they…vote.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 14, 2017

          And they are judged accordingly on their actions. Mostly as pathetic idiots, sometimes merely as idiots.

          • Blazer

             /  October 14, 2017

            denigration is all you ever have.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              That’s observation, not denigration.

            • Blazer

               /  October 14, 2017

              @no its not,as your definitions are always so subjective you are the only one who takes them…seriously.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              Wrong again. I am laughing as I write them. Though looking at the Greens the only other option is to cry.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              Blazer’s right Alan. With your education & your intellect and even your wit – you ought to be better than that.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              Can’t win ’em all, G. Made me smile and a few others.

            • Gezza

               /  October 14, 2017

              Put Mrs Wilkinson on please, Al.
              I think I should have a word.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              Not until you out your sofa, Sir Gerald.

      • Fight4NZ

         /  October 14, 2017

        The point trying to be made is that the post is very blue tinged. It’s your blog, your prerogative.
        But the obvious deep resentment of the blue commenters that by sticking with their principles the Greens have hugely undermined National’s negotiating position makes their outrage meaningless.
        Greens and importantly their support are diametrically opposed to almost everything National has done for nine years. To join them is the kiss of death.
        It is a strength of party and leadership that they maintain a consistent position. That they don’t snatch any carrot dangled in front of them is of course incomprehensible for those who would determine the whole course of the country for the sake of $1000/year taxcut

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 14, 2017

          It hasn’t undermined National’s negotiating position at all. It has weakened the perception of a Labour/NZF/Green coalition as comprising two parties and a door-mat patsy. It has weakened the chances of the country implementing any Green policies.

          • Fight4NZ

             /  October 14, 2017

            Their chance remains 50:50. The vehemence and mudslinging suffusing the right wing commentary here betrays the level of threat to self-interest

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              A coalition with Winston is a threat to sanity never mind self-interest. In contrast a Green-National coalition would merely disturb the usual incompetent/competent mix a little. Their chances of Winston allowing them any kudos or policy wins are zero even if he goes with Labour.

            • Fight4NZ

               /  October 14, 2017

              A coalition with Winston should mean a start to roll back the discredited, destructive policies of neoliberal economics. IF he has the strength of character shown by the Greens. It is a big if.
              Kudos or not that is in line with Green ethos I believe.

            • PDB

               /  October 14, 2017

              NZL is a true mixed economy with a slight socialist bent – what neoliberal economics are you talking about?

            • PDB

               /  October 14, 2017

              “New Zealand may not be a socialist country, but the welfare system in the country is very wide ranging, offering support for housing, unemployment, health, child care, and education as well. Therefore, New Zealand has many of the characteristics of a socialist country, even while remaining officially free market.”

              http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017

              @F4, you don’t think Winston is silly enough to believe what he says, do you? Heavens knows, he’d be in a psych ward by now if he did.

              He knows economic freedom pays his bills and he intends to keep both coming.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  October 14, 2017
        • PDB

           /  October 14, 2017

          Fight4NZ: “sticking with their principles”

          That statement is of course nonsense when they are happy to go into a govt with a party they consider ‘racist’.

          The only ‘consistent position’ they have taken is one of hypocrisy.

        • Fight4NZ: “The point trying to be made is that the post is very blue tinged.”

          It’s not blue at all. It’s about the Greens. Being critical of the position the greens have got themselves into has nothing to do with National, they aren’t mentioned or referred to, and neither has this post..

          • Fight4NZ

             /  October 14, 2017

            Gotta say great post. Brought everyone to the dancefloor

      • Corky

         /  October 14, 2017

        Attack one, attack all, Pete. They have a pack mentality.

  6. Zedd

     /  October 14, 2017

    I see NZF & Greens are like ‘two sides of same coin’;
    1) both vying for 3 spot
    2) seen like tails, trying to wag the dog
    3) survivors of MMP, when the MSM tried its best, to paint the election as FPP
    4) both now battling to get into Govt.

    The Greens are being attacked for sticking to the ideals/principles, BUT that is what their members want from them.. regardless of all the rhetorical negative comments, about why not do coalition deals with Natz etc.

    All the comments about the Greens not adhering to ‘the Environment’ is just B-S, they have never claimed to be just ‘an environmental party’. They are committed to Social Justice too; The well-being of the People & the Planet !

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  October 14, 2017

      As I’ve said before, they don’t want to do anything – they just want other people to do things for them. As a guiding principle it doesn’t command much respect.

    • what and achieve nothing zedd?

    • Corky

       /  October 14, 2017

      Geez, Zedd%. You need to add more ‘flesh’ to your arguments.

      • Zedd

         /  October 14, 2017

        I forgot to add a few etc. etc. etc. 😀

        btw; is it true you voted ‘apathetic’ ?

        • Corky

           /  October 14, 2017

          No, I didn’t vote. I guess you now know why. Don’t tell me you voted to have Winston determine your destiny? That’s like sending your mana to the boneyard.

          • Zedd

             /  October 15, 2017

            I can only guess why you didnt vote; because Mr T wasnt on your voting paper. I actually think for someone so vocal in here.. you sounded like you would have been at the front of the queue on polling day ?!

            btw; I accept that under MMP we have to wait while coalition deals are thrashed out.. Winston maybe ‘in the box-seat’ BUT I’m also guessing he is not pulling all the strings; Labour, Greens & Natz will have ‘bottomlines’ too. I doubt English will say ‘YES’ to Winston being PM or NZF having the Finance minister job.
            I also dont think Jacinda will lay down/agree to every demand either.

  7. Greens have made the negotiation table lopsided by only dealing with Labour. They could have extracted environmental gains from National which, like it or not, is the purpose of MMP, to make Parliament more representative. If Jacinda had had to negotiate with them (7 MPs) as well as NZ First (9 MPs) it would have strengthened their hand and their influence. To their credit, they haven’t moaned about it.

    • Blazer

       /  October 14, 2017

      the ‘table’ was inherently …lopsided from the start…regardless.

  8. The unfortunate reality with the current negotiations is that noone really knows what Winston’s POLICIES are. Even in the election he disagreed with his MPS who were simply quoting their manifesto.

    • PDB

       /  October 14, 2017

      What we do know is he is strongly anti-immigration and therefore at direct conflict with the Greens on that important issue. The Greens even called NZL First racist a few months ago.

      The fact the Greens are silent on that issue now and happy to go into govt with a party they consider racist tells us all we need to know about them & their lack of leadership.

      • Blazer

         /  October 14, 2017

        except Winston is not anti immigration.

        • PDB

           /  October 14, 2017

          In the eyes of the Greens he is;

          RNZ: “Greens’ co-leader Metiria Turei labelled NZ First’s immigration policies racist and divisive, while Winston Peters warned their would be “consequences” for such accusations.”

          • Blazer

             /  October 14, 2017

            that does not state that he is..’anti immigration’.

            • sorethumb

               /  October 15, 2017

              Winston quoted Kerry McDonald in one of his speeches and he wants the numbers cut.

      • Fight4NZ

         /  October 14, 2017

        It might, in this one policy area, conflict with the Greens. However take away immigration from National and you don’t have anything left.
        Go Winnie!

  9. sorethumb

     /  October 15, 2017

    Green hopes, Green principals and Green integrity

  1. Greens – selling their soul for baubles for Winston? — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition