Open Forum – Saturday

14 October 2017

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site will have to keep going through moderation due to abuses by a small number of malicious people.

13 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  October 14, 2017

    I’m watching the moron POTUS on Aljazeera tear up the treaty it made with Iran showing that ANY deal done with the USA isn’t worth the paper it’s written on

    • Corky

       /  October 14, 2017

      Trumpy is a great PR man, Lurchy. He has you hanging off his every word.

  2. sorethumb

     /  October 14, 2017

    White Supremacist (Although he is a mess of an individual)?
    http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/skinhead-jailed-for-callous-murder-of-korean-backpacker–2010042916
    Are people like him a threat to the left? No The left are bothered by another strain of the virus. You can see it payed out in Europe where anti racist activists work with EU officials to promote migrant rights, This is where principle meets perception. Imagine if a ship load of poor Rohingya arrived at Bluff (and another and another). One fact we can be sure of is that poor people are plentiful (PPP).

    The left are fighting the need for a recognised identity in a secured territory:
    Back in 1934, George Herbert Mead, a pioneer social psychologist, argued that the development of the self is contingent upon recognition from others. That identity is a matter of both how we see ourselves and how others see us has since become well-established in psychology. Drawing on this idea, Charles Taylor argued in his Multiculturalism and the Politics of Recognition that, in diverse societies, lack of recognition or misrecognition can become forms of oppression.

    Acculturation research further suggests the specific integration policies adopted by governments influence how migrants acculturate and how they relate to other groups. Successful integration on the part of migrants depends on multiculturalism on the part of receiving societies. It is lack of recognition that can lead to inward-looking identities and segregation. Stigmatising migrants as a burden to the economy further enhances misrecognition.

    Instead of promoting cohesion and the development of a super-ordinate British identity, the politics of sameness and assimilation promote polarisation between ‘us’ and ‘them’. And it is polarisation that fuels intergroup conflict. Solidarity and multiculturalism are not opposites: it is only through meaningful engagement with others that we can develop secure identities and positive social relationships. Solidarity develops through recognition of diversity, not its denial. The demonisation of multiculturalism and of immigration can only limit Britain’s ability to develop as a cohesive and inclusive society.
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-demonisation-of-immigration-and-multiculturalism-can-only-limit-britains-ability-to-develop-as-a-cohesive-and-inclusive-society/
    Note the credibility gap, especially if you throw evolution into the mix?

  3. Corky

     /  October 14, 2017

    Damn. Lucky Paul Moon rescued Ngapuhi from these revisionist colonials. Of course Paul Moon was wrong. The authors of this book may have written some incorrect facts , put their contention of Maori not being the first people in Aotearoa is correct.

    How do we know? Well, most Maori tribal history admits to this. In my iwi, for example, the tohunga would call on the ”little people” to guide him when finding lost people.

    Scary, and very creepy stuff…especially if you are presenting a Waitangi claim to the government acknowledging unbroken possession of whenua, while little four foot beings with golden hair are living on your tribal lands.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/dargaville-districts/6497943/Greeks-got-here-first

    • sorethumb

       /  October 14, 2017

      So far the earliest indicator of humans in NZ are bones of the polynesian rat?

    • Gezza

       /  October 14, 2017

      Yeah. Right. Well when the Greek decscendents come out of their cave to discuss Socrates & Aristotle we can all gave a good laff & fly them back to Greece to catch up, because they didn’t have planes back then. I like you better when you’re asleep Corks, must admit.

  4. “To read the NZ First manifesto for the recent election was to like wandering into a museum. There were policies to revive manufacturing, restore export tax incentives, change the Reserve Bank to take its focus off inflation and manage the exchange rate, block foreign ownership of land and some assets, direct the NZ Super Fund to buy back privatised assets and issue a great deal of orders about pricing and investment and development to airports and seaports, to KiwiRail and to banks and financial services.

    There was also some uncharacteristic environmental and energy planks written for the Greens, and plenty of handouts for horse racing and more benefits on the super gold card. Doubtless I will get free doctor’s visits I don’t need.

    It has been galling to watch good people such as English and Ardern pay respects to Peters. “Respect” has been their byword since election night. Truth usually gets distorted when he is on the scene. The truth is, MPs on both sides of the house have always had more respect for the other than for Winston Peters.”

    John Roughan in the NZ Herald. Not fond of WRP I reckon
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11932689

  5. lurcher1948

     /  October 14, 2017

    There’s a job for life going in the USA,the person in charge taking care of all the sanctions being applied so many countries so many people rather pathetic really…

  6. sorethumb

     /  October 14, 2017

    In studies of multiculturalism in the United States, one of the critiques of a multicultural recognition of diversity has been that “multiculturalism” itself reflects a social ideology –there is, for example, an imbedded assumption behind the concept, that all groups have found some fundamental equality within American society. Such an assumption is based on a relativistic notion that members of different cultures should have access to equal status.

    But one critique of “multiculturalism” is that it is a very idealistic or aspirational concept, and that it doesn’t represent the social reality of hierarchies that exist between groups and cultures and that American groups do not value one another’s cultures or grant one another equal status.

    In this context, “diversity” is a more neutral term and it implies: ‘Well, there are differences between people, but the term has no connotation for what the relationships might or should be between diverse groups’. So the idea of diversity is valuable to neutral social science inquiry in the sense of not pre-supposing the nature or ranking of groups within a society as a whole. So the notion of “diversity” is different from that of “multiculturalism,” which frequently has an ideology behind it.
    ………….
    Sounds like diversity takes a step back, kinda putting the idea out of focus so we can’t see what’s going on? Obscurantism. Mummy and Daddy are……..?

    • There has been a huge amount of cultural diversity in the US for hundreds of years.

      The native American Indians were themselves culturally diverse, covering a wide area.

      Then came the Spanish, the English and the French. And also the forced introduction of large numbers of slaves from Africa.

      Then over centuries there were major influxes of different cultures, especially Germanic (which were themselves diverse), but from across Europe and across the world.

      There have been more due to US connections with Hawaii, Korea, Japan and Vietnam.

      Try walking down Manhattan and seeing the cultural changes block by block (I’ve walked from 32nd Street to below 1st Street).

      Diversity and multiculturalism are embedded in the US.

  7. A breakthrough for Brendon Hartley:

  8. Gezza

     /  October 14, 2017

    2330 hours
    Unless patu staggers in, looks like I’m the last one standing.
    I win again. 💪🏼

    Back to me book-writing.