This can’t be right on Māori seats referendum

With nothing much else to do Lloyd burr has been trawling through NZ First and green policies and has come up with a sort of interesting 16 policies NZ First and the Greens disagree on

With some much spare time on his hands he should be expected to get things right, but  this one can’t be right.

2. Māori Seats

Greens – Entrench Māori Seats and oppose any referendum to remove them.

NZ First – Abolish Māori seats via a binding referendum.

I don’t know how you can have a policy to abolish something via a binding referendum. A referendum is usually intended to leave the decision to voters.

NZ First policy: Maori Affairs

MĀORI SEATS REFERENDUM

  • Māori don’t need the Māori seats. They don’t need tokenism. That is why we commit to a referendum of all electors to retain or abolish the Māori seats.

NZ First make it clear they don’t want the Maori seats, but have committed to a referendum of all electors to give them that choice.

It is arrogant for a 7% party to claim that Māori don’t need the Māori seats.

It can be argued (I do strongly) that it is questionable to allow a majority of every voter to make a decision that impacts on a relatively small minority

But NZ First don’t guarantee abolition, they commit to allowing the voters to decide.

42 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  October 18, 2017

    It is arrogant for a 7% party to claim that Māori don’t need the Māori seats.
    Um, I think we could probably extend that sentiment to pretty well all their policies that aren’t in alignment with anyone else’s.

  2. patupaiarehe

     /  October 18, 2017

    I think the point that is trying to be made, is that we need to escape from this idea that whoever was allegedly here first dictate the rules. What we, as a nation need to focus on, is getting along with who is here now, and being very selective about who we ‘import’.

    • Gezza

       /  October 18, 2017

      Are you saying MAORI are dictating how this country is run?
      Because if you are, I’m going to be very interested to read you exposition on precisely how?

      • patupaiarehe

         /  October 18, 2017

        Have a cup of tea & a lie down G. Too many people are getting far too excited about sweet FA ATM. Take a step back, and be amused by it…

        • Gezza

           /  October 18, 2017

          Yup. Got a coffee. Laffin.
          So, you are NOT saying Maori are dictating how this country is run?
          So, what did you mean by:
          we need to escape from this idea that whoever was allegedly here first dictate the rules.
          And separately, by “allegedly”?

          Are you laffin at those saying that, or are you agreeing with them?

          • patupaiarehe

             /  October 18, 2017

            My whanau were here before the ‘Maori’ G, but I won’t hold that against them….

            • Gezza

               /  October 18, 2017

              How so? Who were they?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 18, 2017

              Let’s be honest G, by making allowances for anyone, based on their bloodlines, our govt is ‘admitting’ that a certain ethnicity is ‘a bit thick’. Well sorry, as someone who isn’t included in that generalisation, I don’t accept it..

            • Gezza

               /  October 18, 2017

              Yeah, but your ancestors, your family, you know, your settler great great great grandies, who arrived in NZ before the Maori great great great grandies – who were they? Where are your people from?

              Mine are from Cork, Kerry, Clare, & somewhere in Norway, not sure where – the tuakana or the tuahine might.

              Where are yours from? When did they get here?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 19, 2017

              Where are mine from? The slumlands of England! As for my ‘waka’, don’t be silly. White people travel in aircraft, and have done so for decades…

            • Gezza

               /  October 19, 2017

              My whanau were here before the ‘Maori’ G, but I won’t hold that against them….

              So, when you said that, what does it mean?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 19, 2017

              I was just ‘taking the piss’ G
              Perhaps, tomorrow, I should ask the Maori guy at work for his perspective, as a Maori man.
              Or perhaps I shouldn’t ‘single him out’, based on his ethnicity…
              Perhaps I should just report back to the director of the company, that every man on the floor is working productively, in spite of their supposed ‘racial handicaps’…

            • Gezza

               /  October 19, 2017

              Why not just have a beer with Corky?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 19, 2017

              I’d be happy to do so, if Corky was buying. Anyhow, I’d better catch a few ‘z’s myself. Mousey is happily tucked up beside my youngest, in our old goldfish tank, safe from kitty claws…

  3. Chuck Bird

     /  October 18, 2017

    I can not see how calling for direct democracy is arrogant. Should just woman decide on abortion laws? Should just prisoners decide on if they should have the vote?

    • It’s not the calling for a referendum that’s arrogant, it is saying “Māori don’t need the Māori seats”. NZ First don’t have a mandate to speak for Māori.

      • patupaiarehe

         /  October 18, 2017

        So what is ‘Maori’ Pete? I am thoroughly sick of all this ‘for Maori’ BS. Being descended from Maori blood is not a racial handicap! FFS!

        • Gezza

           /  October 18, 2017

          Well, you need to ask all the Maori that one don’t you?

          • patupaiarehe

             /  October 18, 2017

            LOL G, hook line & sinker! Do you not consider yourself, ‘Maori’…

            • Gezza

               /  October 18, 2017

              Don’t play silly buggers, patu. I’m better at it. Jump back up to earlier.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 18, 2017

              Just did G. And I stand by my opinions 😛

            • Gezza

               /  October 18, 2017

              Well, no, you didn’t really. Or you did, but then you suggested maybe it was all sweet fanny adams and maybe you were just joking & it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Could you maybe clarify, up where I ask?

            • patupaiarehe

               /  October 18, 2017

              Where, exactly, did you ask, G??

  4. Corky

     /  October 18, 2017

    ”It is arrogant for a 7% party to claim that Māori don’t need the Māori seats.”

    Well, that’s MMP. and I believe most New Zealanders would agree. A similar situation with democaracy. Either rule by the majority over the minority. Or minority rule over the majority, depending on which side of the fence you are on.

    • Gezza

       /  October 18, 2017

      I’m not so sure that they would. They need to hear from both sides. Maori & Maori-bashers.

      • Gezza

         /  October 18, 2017

        Which Party’s part-Maori Pakeha Named leader advocated getting rid of the Maori seats (I think, it got woolly again towards the election) & what percentage of the vote did his Party get, Corky?

  5. MMP means that deals can and will be made. If this one is one NZF feel strongly about, it will happen.

    I’m not sure it us

  6. patupaiarehe

     /  October 18, 2017

    Good god! I am thoroughly sick of this racial shit! As a white heterosexual man, I am allegedly the cause of every problem in the world. Step aside, while I slit my own wrists due to my own guilty feelings… Oh hang on a minute, I don’t have any guilty feelings. If that offends you, GFY!

  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  October 18, 2017

    It is arrogant for a 7% party to claim that Māori don’t need the Māori seats.

    Not as I read it. NZF is saying the Maori seats are tokenism and no-one needs tokenism. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

    • patupaiarehe

       /  October 18, 2017

      Thank you Alan, I wasn’t almost on the edge.. 😀

      • Gezza

         /  October 18, 2017

        So, do all Maori agree?

        • patupaiarehe

           /  October 18, 2017

          You’ll have to ask ‘them’, G…

          • Gezza

             /  October 19, 2017

            I think you should. Before anyone thinks about asking anyone else.
            And ask them if they think there should be separate seats for Pakeha maybe?
            And how many?

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  October 19, 2017

          Why on earth should they all agree about anything?

          • Gezza

             /  October 19, 2017

            Well, why not ask them that, as well, when you, Corky & Patu are going around door knocking in their nga rohe?

          • Gezza

             /  October 19, 2017

            Any nite Al. I’ve got some research to do for tomorrow.

          • Gezza

             /  October 19, 2017

            Bugger! AnyWAY, nite Al. Stet the rest 😀

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