Did the losers win the election?

There have been claims that the losers won the election and we now have a Government of losers. This is all nonsense of course, usually bleated by poor losers.

No won ‘won’ the election. No party has won an overall majority in an election ever under MMP (in New Zealand at least and I suspect everywhere in the world).

National formed a government in our first MMP election in 1996 after getting just 33.87% of the vote. They came closest to an overall majority in 2011 with 47.31%, and similarly in 2014 with 47.04.

The recently ousted National Government needed the support of other parties to get a majority – they successfully negotiated the numbers required to rule.

National were easily the most voted for party again this year but slipped back a bit. Here are the party results again:

  • National 1,152,075 votes, 44.45%, 56 seats
  • Labour 956,184 votes, 36.89%, 46 seats
  • NZ First 186,706 votes, 7.20%, 9 seats
  • Greens 162,443 votes, 6.27%, 8 seats
  • ACT 13,075 votes, 0.50%, 1 electorate seat

As we know Winston Peters led the post election negotiations and ended up allowing Labour to form a government with NZ First and Greens. This is completely acceptable under our rules.

MMP elections aren’t won, MMP governments are formed with a majority of willing parties.

A reasonable argument can be made that the party with the largest number of seats should have been the first to try and form a government. If we had a rule like this it would take away some of the uncertainty, game playing and dog wagging by small tails.

A reasonable question could also be asked as to why National didn’t take control of the negotiations straight after the election, and also why Labour didn’t also play a more prominent role. The two top dogs rolled over and let their tails be tweaked.

Whatever, we have what we have, a Labour-NZ-First-Green government who between them have 63 seats, a clear majority.

It could be said that Labour were awarded the winner’s prize by Winston Peters. This was a bizarre way of announcing the outcome of the negotiations, but Labour and the Greens allowed it to happen that way.

James Shaw sounded like he thought the Greens were the biggest winners, even though they were disrespected by Peters in negotiations and in his announcement, and not allowed any ministers in Cabinet.

However this will be the biggest role the Greens will play in a government ever in their existence, with three ministers outside cabinet. Any legislation Peters and Labour want to pass will need Green approval, unless National supports it.

In his speech after losing the Winston contest Bill English emphasised that National had clearly won the most support and seats, but he didn’t claim that National had won the election. He conceded governance with in a dignified manner, and won quite a bit of dignity and respect for what he had achieved, or how he hadn’t quite achieved it.

The country could well be a winner with this result. In many respects things are going well ion New Zealand, our economy is one of the healthiest in the the world. This provides a good platform for the incoming government.

National promised to address some of the pressing issues, in particular housing, inequality and crime. They had already worked to try to improve on the problems we face as a country.

Labour and NZ First and the Greens promise to do more, and if they do it well then the country will have won, or at least we will have improved our position, life and governance are ongoing challenges.

Sure there are some risks if the new government tries things that don’t work out – there is no difference to the risks for government than in the past.

No one wins from being pessimistic, that just drags you down. If there is too much pessimism and despondency it drags communities and countries down.

Prime Minister election Jacinda Ardern says she will lead a government for all New Zealanders. I think she and her fellow leaders will do what they think is best, for individual problems and for the country as a whole.

In any population there will always be some losers, that can’t be avoided. But a good government will minimise it, and it will do what it thinks is best to maximise opportunities and well being for the majority.

If we wish them well, and it they do well, then most of us will be winners, and we collectively will be winners.

There were no winners from the election. A government was formed from the election results according to our rules.

Losers whinge.

We will all win by doing things better, and that will be helped by hope, optimism and hard work.

It’s our government. It’s our country. We all play an important part. We should all play to succeed.

Leave a comment

122 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  22nd October 2017

    ”There have been claims that the losers won the election and we now have a Government of losers. This is all nonsense of course, usually bleated by poor losers.”

    We could put it another way- a coalition of political loser ideologies won the election. The best ideology( of a bad bunch) lost but will ultimately win.

    That brings into question your final paragraph.

    ”It’s our government. It’s our country. We all play an important part. We should all play to succeed.”

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  22nd October 2017

      We could put it another way- a coalition of political loser ideologies won the election. The best ideology( of a bad bunch) lost but will ultimately win

      You could put it that way. An alt right loser might.

      Or you could put it other ways, like:
      a coalition of politically similar, with some differences, ideologies won the election. The best thing to do now is wait & see how things go.

      Reply
    • We could also say that a coalition of political ideologies won the election, considering that National proposed to address many of the key issues that the incoming government are targeting.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  22nd October 2017

        I found yesterday’s discussion on the dairy industry, the level of Chinese involvement in it, & the various Commercial, economic & perhaps political risks of that in particular, very interesting.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  22nd October 2017

          And the National Party political connections to it somewhat disturbing.

          Reply
          • Conspiratoor

             /  22nd October 2017

            “I can buy any man in the world, or I can destroy him” – H Hughes

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  22nd October 2017

              He wound up emancipated and being looked after by Mormons..

            • Corky

               /  22nd October 2017

              Emancipated =emaciated

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              Typo Of The Day, I reckon.

              But good save, fast. So full marks. 👍🏼

            • Corky

               /  22nd October 2017

              Gezza / October 21, 2017

              * soz for typos

              Chidren must be amused.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              Sometimes I think my subtlety might miss the mark with you, Corks. Just a feeling. You seem to go “eh?” where others go “I get it!”

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              Chidren must be amused.
              Adults too, I expect. You’re a good sort really Corks.
              Hours of entertainment sometimes. Don’t think I don’t apprecate you, because I do!

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              apprecate?
              It’s all too funny sometimes isn’t it 😆

      • Corky

         /  22nd October 2017

        ”We could also say that a coalition of political ideologies won the election, ”

        I call them loser ideologies because they aren’t capable of sustaining our present economy.

        In our small economy you can choose the money or the bag. National chose the money, warts and all. Labour has chosen the bag. And in that bag is the unknown effect of Labours social spending. Spending that is likely to escalate when the coalition tries to buy support as the economy tanks.

        One other thing. Labour doesn’t have the international contacts John Key brought to our country.

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  22nd October 2017

        that sums up National..’ National proposed to address ‘–too little…too late.

        Reply
        • David

           /  22nd October 2017

          And what exact piece of policy agreed between Jacinda and Winston gets you excited Blazer, who knows whats been kept or jettisoned aside from the Kermadec sanctuary to the monied interests of the fishing industry.

          Reply
          • A concern of mine is Ardern’s lack of depth and tendency to slogans. I think it’s her lack of substance that will see doubts set in.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  23rd October 2017

              A concern of mine for some time has been all politicians’ lack of depth & tendency towards slogans – all promising, more or less, a brighter future?

            • Lack of depth and tendency to slogans is a concern with many MPs and leaders, especially new ones.

              Ardern appears to be growing into the job quickly, but it’s a huge challenge for her, as it is for any new leader of any new government.

  2. PDB

     /  22nd October 2017

    PG: “A reasonable question could also be asked as to why National didn’t take control of the negotiations straight after the election, and also why Labour didn’t also play a more prominent role. The two top dogs rolled over and let their tails be tweaked.”

    From what is being whispered around the place it appears Labour got into govt by selling their soul to Winston whilst National didn’t – will be interesting to see what was officially agreed.

    The Greens have already been shafted by Labour if this is true: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/98122008/kermadec-ocean-sanctuary-put-on-ice-by-nz-first-catching-greens-unaware

    Reply
  3. David

     /  22nd October 2017

    Could agree with you PG but no one knows what they are going to do because they arrogantly dont think the voters should be privy to the deal that has been done until next week sometime, its not a great start and looks like they are embarrased by the contents,

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  22nd October 2017

      As I mentioned on the other thread the Greens don’t even know what sort of govt they are supporting;

      Eugenie Sage: “She told Stuff she was not aware of the Kermadec sanctuary being killed off. “We have yet to see the coalition agreement between Labour and New Zealand First,” she said.”

      Losers may be a term that fits the Greens well when the NZL First-Labour agreement is fully released. Blindly trusting Labour to look out for their interests during negotiations may end up biting them in the bum.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  22nd October 2017

        If Labour end up paying young male teenagers who don’t like living under mum &/or dad’s simple, understandable rules at to go & stay with another mature woman who doesn’t have any, like last time, at least the two similar cases we saw on tv, I’ll be feckin annoyed as.

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  22nd October 2017

        how could she be aware of something journos are making up?Ambushing Green parliamentarians will become a new sport if they don’t adopt the sidestep perfected by old campaigners.

        Reply
      • Fight4NZ

         /  22nd October 2017

        They are a 6% party. They will fully expect not to implement their full manifesto. But with leading rolls on 4 portfolios not seeing a loss. More success than I am comfortable with in fact

        Reply
    • Fight4NZ

       /  22nd October 2017

      Negotiations continued past the 11th hour. Neither grouping upon winning would have instantly produced there pages of scrawlings and crossing outs.
      Why belittle yourself with nonsense that it is some clandestine plot.

      Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  22nd October 2017

    The election was lost to those who feel themselves to be outsiders. Now it will be a challenge to convert them into feeling insiders and for National to pick some of them off. Welcome to the political world of identity politics where emotion and prejudice rules over policy.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  22nd October 2017

      National policy…uncontrolled immigration and housing inflation…thats all.

      Reply
      • Immigration was nowhere near uncontrolled. That’s a ridiculous line/lie that Winston Peters kept pushing.

        Reply
        • Fight4NZ

           /  22nd October 2017

          You don’t live in Auckland if you believe that.

          Reply
          • I’ve seen signs of significant immigration into Auckland. I lived in Auckland in the seventies when there was an influx of Pacific Islanders with controversial dawn raids, and also complaints about incoming ‘bloody Poms’.

            Later there was a surge from South Africa

            I’ve seen indications of other demographic changes too more recently.

            But immigration has been controlled, quite strictly. There is no ‘mass immigration’, there has just been more than some people are comfortable with.

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  22nd October 2017

              So, if immigration has been ‘quite strictly’ controlled, why did english knee jerk moves to control the flow of migrants earlier this year?

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/91675828/government-to-announce-new-moves-to-control-the-flow-of-migrants

            • He tweaked to strict controls, namely:
              Two changes to the Skilled Migrant Category have been announced:

              – the points threshold for automatic selection has been increased from 140 to 160 from 12 October 2016 (regardless of
              – whether an applicant has a job offer)
              the way applicants show evidence that they meet the minimum standard of English language is changing

              140 points meant fairly strict control.

              Can you show where our immigration was ‘mass’ or uncontrolled?

              Much of the increase in numbers over recent years was due to fewer New Zealanders leaving and more returning, that is uncontrolled but it isn’t immigration, it’s free movement of citizens.

            • sorethumb

               /  22nd October 2017

              Greg Clydesdale has a section on Argentina in his book. They were also once wealthy but they tried to use immigration to build a large urban base so that they could become a major manufacture exporting country. They failed and all the signs are that Auckland is failing.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  22nd October 2017

              I haven’t said immigration is uncontrolled. Control is a relative term. But i would suggest record immigration from asia combined with a growing skills shortage indicates a degree of a lack of control

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              “Controlling immigration” = messing with individual’s lives. Justified on the basis of racism and/or uncontrolled socialism.

              We should have principled rules and apply them fairly and consistently to allow people to organise their lives as they wish and need to. Turning taps on and off messes people up with no justification.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Downticks from the crew that love messing up other people’s lives.

            • Fight4NZ

               /  22nd October 2017

              Until 2005 or so Auckland remained a kiwi city with significant diversity. Since , particularly last 5 years influx has been as obvious as it has been damaging.
              Central govt has been able to steamroll the council to force through the enhanced unitary plan in true anti democratic style.
              Rapidly transforming into down market Hong Kong. It is unconscionable and sad.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Hardly down market. Most Asians seem to be in Remuera, not Manurewa.

            • Fight4NZ

               /  23rd October 2017

              Your information is out-of-date. No suburb is without sizable populations since chefs, labourers and shelf stackers went onto the skills shortage list.

            • Given that more than 25% of New Zealanders were immigrants (weren’t born in New Zealand) I’m sure they will be scattered across all suburbs. Some are more noticeable than others because they look different!

            • Gezza

               /  23rd October 2017

              It’s when the kiwis who weren’t born overseas look different, and act different, you start to wonder …

        • We have very stringent entry criteria and the posts are always shifting. Hairdressers needed in AKL last month, this month no points allotted unless in provinces.

          Now they won’t have the luxury of framing this debate. “Owning the language” as Ms Clare Curran wants. We’re on to them and now it’s the right’s turn to expose them..

          Reply
          • Read this for an understanding why Clare Curran and Jacinda have a meeting of minds:

            Click to access Language_Matters.pdf

            Reply
            • Fight4NZ

               /  22nd October 2017

              So Labour are looking at the way the public will swallow National’s bs . Like instead of sell off NZ assets to our corporate donors, say mixed ownership model for mums and dads. Or instead of election bribe say tax cut if you vote us back in.
              Sadly being principled hasn’t been very effective with MSM in National’s pocket

    • Gezza

       /  22nd October 2017

      Partly. And welcome to the world of people. As individuals with shared interests and individual differences in wants & needs. Labour could be profligate. Right intent, wrong approach. If so it won’t produce the right results & could produce the wrong ones. That’s where stats, & controlling how they are couched & kept, are so important.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd October 2017

        The media like to do individual stories, rather than stats. Whether they choose to do good ones or bad ones determines the emotions they generate and play with. That is modern politics.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  22nd October 2017

          The media are, on the whole, useless pieces of merde. I don’t think anybody here would have any serious argument with that.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  22nd October 2017

            I do. They are worse than useless, they are destructive of good policy.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              I meant to add that their role as challengers is important but needs to balance the good with the bad and they are very poor at doing that.

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              I do.
              If I told everybody that when you’re not being a cantankerous bastard you’re a good bloke you’d want to argue about the last bit. It’s your default setting.

              Put your Mrs on. Bet she backs me up !

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              She knows when I am mischievous but who are you to complain about gratuitous contrariness anyway?

            • Gezza

               /  22nd October 2017

              I’ve got a diploma in it. You know that!
              Stop taking me down a peg or two.
              That’s Corky’s job.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              You’ve got more wriggle than Ella and Elvis, Sir Gerald. Corky’s still looking for the gelignite so I’m filling in with a bit of ground bait.

    • Fight4NZ

       /  22nd October 2017

      Not as outside as the David Seymour party

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  22nd October 2017

        Richard Prebble commented that “Two ticks for National” was a losing strategy for MMP. National needed to do much more to help potential coalition partners who could cater for voters who might otherwise consider themselves outsiders. That will be true for the future as well.

        Reply
  5. duperez

     /  22nd October 2017

    Did the losers win the election? Mainly to those who reckon the 1959 Lions won the 1st test because they scored four tries while the All Blacks only kicked six penalties.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd October 2017

      Even the All Blacks lose sometimes … Odds are this Government will show us what failure really looks like.

      Reply
  6. Zedd

     /  22nd October 2017

    Did the losers win the election?

    no MMP won !

    its a shame that they couldn’t have a ‘grand coalition’ & give assoc. minister roles to a few natz.

    as they give a deputy speaker role top the ‘opposition’ 🙂

    Reply
  7. Zedd

     /  22nd October 2017

    breaking news; more than 50% on same side, won the election 🙂

    welcome to mmp….

    Reply
  8. phantom snowflake

     /  22nd October 2017

    At last there is a glimmer of hope for those who were “Losers” under National; those who are at the wrong end of statistics in areas such as health, education, housing and income.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  22nd October 2017

      Sure. They are going to pass a law to say that child poverty is illegal. Presumably they will then arrest poor people.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  22nd October 2017

        That is seriously funny & I shall be looking for opportunities to use it.

        Reply
      • phantom snowflake

         /  22nd October 2017

        A glimmer of hope, I said, in a passing moment of optimism. Alan, lack of empathy for those less privileged than yourself does not make you a better person. Go and spend some time on the margins then get back to me. It may mean hanging out with people who have bad teeth and don’t smell great, but it’ll be good for you, I promise.

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  22nd October 2017

          Nothing to do with empathy, Snow. Everything to do with a ridiculous policy statement. I’ve just spent time with folk who know what real poverty is in a continent which epitomises it. Bet you haven’t.

          Reply
          • phantom snowflake

             /  22nd October 2017

            Yeah, I’m not in the right class to be able to afford overseas travel lol.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Ok. It requires work. Maybe even a lifetime of it. And choices. As does the ability to help others or just yourself. Don’t know where you fit in to that.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  22nd October 2017

              That is why I admire the Sallies Snow. They don’t allow prejudice and their own view of who is deserving and who is not …to determine who will receive their blessings.

              “Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest”.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  22nd October 2017

              Yes, am a big fan of “The Sallies” too. The humility of “officers” I have met is striking. Where I fit Alan? I aspire, imperfectly to “Love your neighbour as yourself.” (Luke 10:27)

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Not precisely my neighbours, but currently I’m providing free homes to four families not mine, Snow. Have done for many years. Started life as a student with no money and a young family to look after. That was my class.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  22nd October 2017

              I’m sure they would meet Jesus’ definition of neighbours. “That was my class.” *Ouch. Removes barb and reflects, somewhat chastened, on the subject of self-righteousness* Sorry!

            • Blazer

               /  22nd October 2017

              AL’s paradox…wonderful selflessness and kudos for your charitable support of those less fortunate than you.I recall you saying you had a ‘priveleged’ upbringing however.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  22nd October 2017

              In spite of coming across as a bit of a ‘pretentious righty wanker’ at times, Alan’s heart is in the right place. I’ve conversed here with him long enough, to know that he would never willingly give a ‘handout’, but would be happy to give anyone a ‘hand up’, if it would be put to good use…

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Blazer, my privileged upbringing was having parents who loved me besides having some major problems beyond anyone’s control themselves and who valued education and kindness and good values. Many children unfortunately don’t. We were not wealthy, enough to live on with a few extras like a camping holiday at Christmas. Grew own vegetables and didn’t waste anything. Never ate out or stayed in a motel or hotel. Ice on the inside of windows in winter mornings was normal. Just piled old woollen blankets on the bed. A wet-back fire water heater and a Zip over the kitchen sink. Our own water out of the bore pumped up to a gravity feed roof tank via a ram pump. Like everyone else in the suburbs where we lived.

            • Fight4NZ

               /  22nd October 2017

              I don’t think it is overstating things to say that is a bit of a bombshell. So your beef with the left is you don’t think they know how not to let a hand up turn into a hand out?

        • Corky

           /  22nd October 2017

          Strange thing is Winz hate giving out vouchers to have your teeth fixed.

          Reply
          • phantom snowflake

             /  22nd October 2017

            True dat! Am proud to be a loser with…bad teeth.

            Reply
            • Corky

               /  22nd October 2017

              Change your attitude, pull your teeth out…and shoot for the stars. That will come naturally. The pain will be horrendous.

          • Blazer

             /  22nd October 2017

            @Al..did you have a free education?Did you get a low rate P.O loan?Don’t get me wrong..as a psycho analyst you are a case study in the evolution of..’values’.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Like everyone else school education was free but university had fees and I worked in all the holidays to earn money to live on. That was when I got my heavy truck licence but I did lots of other jobs too. I also worked hard and won scholarships which helped a bit too. Affluence was buying a little second-hand Honda scooter instead of a bike.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              No, I never had a PO loan. Bought our first house later with a BNZ mortgage and a PSIS second mortgage.

            • Blazer

               /  22nd October 2017

              taking tyou at your word Al..I am impressed..what made you such a..koont..then?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  22nd October 2017

              Probably seeing people moan and not do anything, B. Plus seeing bad policies made law which stop people from doing things. As patu said I’m 100% behind people who want to work, do good things and help themselves and their families. What I hate most is seeing them blocked by stupid rules and stupid systems.

    • Corky

       /  22nd October 2017

      I agree, PS. Aunt Jacinda has just released her policy on that issue. She has promised to kiss and make it all better…using our money. Motels for the poor are out..5star hotel accommodation is in. No bar tab though. So that will piss the Beanies off.

      Reply
  9. Phantom, education and health are free to all. If one has more than so many prescriptions, the taxpayer pays for them. Nobody is turned away from a hospital because they are poor.

    Reply
    • phantom snowflake

       /  22nd October 2017

      Truisms, which don’t negate the strong statistical link between income and health status.

      Reply
  10. I have real qualms about three parties forming a government when two have such a small % of votes..To me, a better way would be to have the party with most votes being able to join one other to avoid this sort of cobbling together which doesn’t seem fair on the voters.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  22nd October 2017

      this system is called MMP.When National,the Maori Party and ACT worked together in Govt this was what you feared -‘I have real qualms about three parties forming a government when two have such a small % of votes..’…apparantly it lasted for quite sometime.I do hope I have assuaged your fear,and that you have learned something…today.

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  22nd October 2017

      I must apologise for being remiss…I forgot United Future,- meaning there were actually 3 not 2 other minor parties working together with National..so I apologise in advance ..your ‘qualms’ then must have been quite a worry.

      Reply
  11. Norman Grey

     /  22nd October 2017

    I reckon this is an interesting “honeymoon” period for Jacinda and it will be interesting to see how the “marriage” of the 3 parties works out in reality. It is unfortunate that the marriage can have considerable repercussions for all of us so I think once “I do” been said it will become even more divisive and fragile. Our help with constant nit picking and frequent negative comment questioning will surely bring a divorce within the next 3 years.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  22nd October 2017

      don’t bet on it ..Norman.

      Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  22nd October 2017

        Everything will be just fine. NZF will support good ideas, and veto bad ones. Exactly what I voted for… 😛

        Reply
    • Conspiratoor

       /  22nd October 2017

      Menage a trois can be highly enjoyable norman. You should try one…

      Reply
  12. John Hopgood

     /  22nd October 2017

    Just shows you that the N Z Australian paper is as biased as it is in Australia.
    I used to read and respect it years ago but now I would not use it in my toilet if out of the “soft on you bum” stuff.

    Reply
  13. barryglik

     /  24th October 2017

    yes and no.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s