The church shooting in a Texas church is described as the worst mass shooting in Texas history, which is very sad but also seems a bit odd given how Texas has been portrayed historically as a gun slinging wild west.
Worst mass shooting in Texas History claims 26 at a church near San Antonio
Latest details (as of 8:30 p.m.)
- At least 26 people were killed at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Sunday morning
- The shooter was identified as Devin Kelley, 26.
- Between 15-20 people were wounded.
- The shooter was killed in Guadalupe County.
- Police are reportedly searching for explosives at a home connected to the suspected shooter.
- Most deadly mass shooting in Texas history.
Officials have identified the man who killed 26 people inside the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs as Devin Kelley, 26.
Authorities said Kelley, dressed in tactical gear, began the shooting spree outside the church. He then walked inside and continued shooting, before fleeing in a vehicle.
Authorities found him dead with a gunshot wound in neighboring Guadalupe County, officials said.
The Texas church shooter who shot dead 26 people and injured 24 others was an ‘outcast’ who ‘preached his atheism’ online.
Former classmates say Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, who stormed First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas and opened fire on Sunday, was ‘creepy’, ‘crazy’ and ‘weird’.
Kelley walked into the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs on Sunday, dressed in black, tactical gear with a ballistics belt and an assault rifle, and began shooting, according to local law enforcement sources.
Kelley of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, was shot by Stephen Willeford, 55, before he climbed in an SUV to flee the scene, a local resident told DailyMail.com.
This will no doubt spark another round of arguments over liberal US gun laws, for a while, until it fades away again as nothing happens.
This shooting is being reported as the fifth worst mass killing in recent US history.
Because the mass murderer was a white US citizen it is unlikely to result in calls for extreme vetting of crazy people and atheists, or bans on immigration from countries where there are crazy people or atheists.
The US has a real problem with the use of firearms, shooting deaths generally and mass shootings, but seems unable to do much about it.
Your NZ 
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Seems the gunman was tracked down and maybe shot by two locals once he left the church. Maybe that’s why Texas hadn’t had many mass shootings. Not many places where victims don’t fire back.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2012/12/the-list-the-deadliest-mass-shootings-in-texas-history/
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Texas
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Ten in 20 years as there are duplicates in that list. One was a terrorist attack. Two were in churches, two at colleges, one a family home, two military bases. But like the rest of the US statistics there seems to have been a big increase in frequency since Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize. Perhaps he should hand it back.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Pathetic. I win again.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Really? You don’t like those facts?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/11/americas-mass-shooting-epidemic-contagious/545078/
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017No- you said Texas hadn’t had many mass shootings. Well, they have. So I win. Again. That’s all there is and there ain’t no more. Sorry. 😕
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 20171966: 1
1980: 1
1991: 1
2009: 1
2012: 1
2014: 1
2015: 2
2016: 1
2017: 2
Population: 28 million
I did a bit of analysis on the Mother Jones mass shootings database and Texas comes 19th on the list for mass shootings per million people.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017State Population Mass Shootings Per Million
Colorado 5,456,574 6 1.10
Washington 7,170,351 7 0.98
Connecticut 3,590,886 3 0.84
Hawaii 1,431,603 1 0.70
Wisconsin 5,771,337 4 0.69
Nevada 2,890,845 2 0.69
Nebraska 1,896,190 1 0.53
Oregon 4,028,977 2 0.50
Kentucky 4,425,092 2 0.45
Florida 20,271,272 9 0.44
South Carolina 4,896,146 2 0.41
California 39,144,818 15 0.38
Minnesota 5,489,594 2 0.36
Kansas 2,911,641 1 0.34
Arkansas 2,978,204 1 0.34
Mississippi 2,992,333 1 0.33
Utah 2,995,919 1 0.33
Texas 27,469,114 8 0.29
Oklahoma 3,911,338 1 0.26
Louisiana 4,649,676 1 0.22
New York 19,795,791 4 0.20
Michigan 9,922,576 2 0.20
North Carolina 10,042,802 2 0.20
Georgia 10,214,860 2 0.20
Ohio 11,613,423 2 0.17
Maryland 6,006,401 1 0.17
Missouri 6,083,672 1 0.16
Pennsylvania 12,802,503 2 0.16
Illinois 12,859,995 2 0.16
Tennessee 6,600,299 1 0.15
Massachusetts 6,794,422 1 0.15
Arizona 6,828,065 1 0.15
Virginia 8,382,993 1 0.12
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Let me see if I’ve got this right, Sir Alan.
Now you are arguing that they’ve got a bad record & if more people got mass murdered they could do a lot better?
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Here’s one, G. I take it you advocate voting early and often:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/michael-parkinson-interview-nowadays-people-would-think-dirty/
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017That was excellent – I like Parky. Best part of that was at the end, don’t you think?
If he ever revived his show, he’d like Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump on the sofa. From his facial expression, he appears to have reservations about the former, but only says: “He’s done wonders for Labour and he’s a very decent man. Next to Mr Trump, he’s certainly the sensible one.”
“I wouldn’t mind the challenge of interviewing Trump,” he continues. “But it wouldn’t be a proper interview, you can’t interview someone as barmy as that.” Parky sighs again. “I’ve never known the world to be as uncertain and unprincipled as it is right now.”
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Yes, an interview with Trump would be an adventure for sure. I’ve no idea how it would turn out.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Not right, but you are improving slightly. Pre-Obama there was less than 1 mass shooting in Texas per decade. I doubt Obama eased gun laws. So what happened? Why did lunatics all over the US suddenly decide mass murder and suicide was a great option? Is it a coincidence Obama’s abysmal foreign policy and creation of ISIS made it fashionable?
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017My bet is they were all non-voters Al. Who knows WTF goes on in the heads of non voters?
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Darn, this should have been here:
https://yournz.org/2017/11/07/worst-mass-shooting-in-texas-history/#comment-230681
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017So after all those attempts at distraction, do you agree with me that the evidence strongly suggests the present spate of US mass killings is the direct consequence of Obama’s miserable failure to prevent or contain the development and promotion of ISIS terrorism?
Blazer
/ 7th November 2017Great logic Al…be more like..Texas.
Kitty Catkin
/ 7th November 2017I cannot see how this is Barack Obama’s fault in any way at all.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017What other explanation have you for the explosion of US mass shootings since 2009?
https://imgflip.com/i/1yxr1b
Fight4NZ
/ 7th November 2017The decline established by G W Bush obviously. No one has done more for the jihadist movement the him and Cheney. But boy did they line their pockets, so all’s fair.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Decline? Of what? And how related to lunatics shooting?
Kitty Catkin
/ 8th November 2017Well, I haven’t one, but I find it hard to believe that he did anything to increase them.
David
/ 7th November 2017Not sure what the graph is supposed to represent, it should be measured against the ethnic background of the country which is probably a bit difficult to do as 15% are illegal immigrants. You would also have to match them off to the population each year and average it out against total population. Might be helpful to have it as a series that changes over the years given it goes back to the 1980,s and 90s which predates radical islamic terrorism and perhaps the way data was collected about the perpetrators especially give the US has never collected the numbers at a federal level but in the last 7 years the FBI has contracted a private company to collate mass shooting data and they do this partially by scanning local news feeds.
Its not a critiscm but the US is made up of States so just an observation of the pretty ropy national stats.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017”Because the mass murderer was a white US citizen it is unlikely to result in calls for extreme vetting of crazy people and atheists, or bans on immigration from countries where there are crazy people or atheists.”
?
Kitty Catkin
/ 7th November 2017WHAT ???
There are nutters & atheists in all countries.
From what I hear from Americans, there is great concern about nutters and guns there.
David
/ 7th November 2017There does seem to be no incident however awful that will be a catalyst for even the most rudimentary form of gun control except on a city/district/state level. Your average American takes their right to bear arms very seriously and some blood happens to be spilt in the process they seem untroubled by it which I just find so baffling.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Americans are very susceptible to manipulation from over a century of slick advertising. Easy as anything to convince some they should all be armed.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017I don’t find it baffling. Think Syria. Fiji. Spain. China. There is a price to be paid no matter what course of action you take in life. The question must be asked: is it worthwhile? That will be answered when the American government attempts to control its citizens like the aforementioned countries.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017Good ole boys will die standing up ( Like Tiananmen Square). Just as the American founding fathers foresaw and made provisions so its citizens could survive under duress.
Liberals will die on their knees, with stains to the front and back of their pants. They will be screaming: ” but this is America! ”
”Sure is” will be the reply. ‘Now get in the fucking cattle crate.”
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/america-2017-concentration-camps-lists-citizens-guillotines-holt
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Can you please explain how dying standing up is the same as surviving under duress?
Corky
/ 7th November 2017Some nit picker wants me to explain how dying standing up is the same as surviving under duress?
Obviously, it isn’t the same. Anyone with time to spare?
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017You, apparently. And you’re filling it up typing nonsense on a blog.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017Says someone who clogs this blog with birds,birds and birds..birds.
Lets get some meaty stuff, posted. Good ole Jesse Ventura tells it like it is.
This is why Americans need guns. At 3.10 and 4.50. Of course this may just be acting. Maybe a conspiracy theory.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Jesse Ventura’s mother wore army boots.
Kitty Catkin
/ 7th November 2017I like to hear about the birds. If Cork doesn’t, he needn’t read General Chat.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017I notice that he totally ignored Ella. Probably a speciesist.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017Still waiting for the counter argument. Lots of rhetoric, not much else.
Jesse was also in the Navy. And the last time I looked was in dispute with a Navy Seal regarding an altercation. The case went to court if I remember correctly. Don’t know who Alex Jones is. Don’t care. The simple way to disprove my argument is prove these camps don’t exist. Or are there for a benign purpose. Jesse has proved these camps do exist.
Look, let me help you two. You guys seem lost. Maybe the coffins were there for infectious disease deaths? When the bird flu was considered a threat, hospitals in NZ were all issued with special body bags and coffin like containers..
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Jesse has proved these camps do exist.
As far as I know he has CLAIMED to have proved these camps exist. If the whole thing was just an elaborate hoax, how would you be able to tell? Given how gullible you seem to be?
Corky
/ 7th November 2017Excellent. Now tell Gezza that little secret and everyone will be happy
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Seriously Corky? Jesse Ventura is about as reliable a source as Alex Jones.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Why are you replying to your own comment? It just makes you look daft.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017”Seriously Corky? Jesse Ventura is about as reliable a source as Alex Jones.”
Really. So he made this up? Can you provide a counter argument?
If you can’t, you are just being daft.
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Jesse Ventura, ex professional wrestler, provides accurate political commentary… Really Corky??? I expect better from you
Corky
/ 7th November 2017That’s not a counter argument. It doesn’t matter what Jesse was. The question is” Is what he reported true.? He wasn’t reporting political commentary, he was reporting on detention centres across America.
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017I saw this particular ‘conspiracy theory’ over a year ago Corky. Cattle cars just waiting for ‘human traffic’. Yet a year later, the cars are still empty, and someone who made a career out of pretending to hurt people for a living, is still braying about it. It’s almost as if somebody put him up to it…
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017I have a friend who reminds me of you, Corky. “Listen to Joe Rogan’s podcasts Patu!”, he says. When I tell him I suspect that an erstwhile ‘reality TV’ host might possibly not be a reliable source of news, he gets all grumpy about it…
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Fark, The FEMA detention camp conspiracy theory’s so bloody old it’s ossified. Alex Jones has been banging on about it for a decade or so I think. At one point he was even claiming Hurricane Katrina was a test run for the roundup of every gun-owning family in the US. Wonder where Corky stands on the other long time faves of Alex – that chemtrails & fluoride being used to dumb down Americans so the Illuminati can control them easier?
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017It doesn’t take much internet research to show that both those guys have clearly opted for careers seeking fame, fortune & attention from the simple-minded, patu.
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Be careful G, the fluoride one may actually have some truth behind it… Or it could just be a very safe & convenient way to dispose of industrial waste that is too toxic to put in a landfill…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid
As for chemtrails/contrails, the jury is out…
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Not sure what you mean? As you voted for Winston & co, you’re only strengthening my case?
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Anyway, whatever, getting back to Jesse
http://americanloons.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=jesse+ventura
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Am I? I’m merely pointing out that the same event can be perceived in different ways G. There is a reason I labelled the above clips ‘contrails’, not ‘chemtrails’. As for water fluoridation, there was much controversy over the HCC ‘removing fluoride’ from the water supply. I suspect there would have been much less, had they said that they were going to “stop adding industrial waste to it”. Yet both statements are entirely accurate…
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017😀 😀 😀
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017🤔 Remind you of anyone who posts alt righty rot here?
patupaiarehe
/ 8th November 2017Fight your own battles G, don’t attempt to drag me into them 😀 Late enough for me, e hoa, cya when I cya…
Gezza
/ 8th November 2017Of course. Not mentioning any names, naturally. Nite patu. Sleep with the light on maybe? Just in case they come for you?
Pete George
/ 7th November 2017NY Times editorial:
Gerrit
/ 7th November 2017Too late for gun control, too many guns in circulation. Will simply (like the drug trade) force the trade underground.
Having a temerity to suggest it is a mental health problem (for both guns and drugs) heavily questioned in an earlier discussion here today, I stick by mine (and Trump’s) assertion that it is a mental health problem. No I don’t have answers.
The default answer is evolving in the USA where ALL will carry side or long weapons and by some show of retaliatory capability, force perpetrators to double think.
Though most seem to be selecting “suicide by cop” as an easy way out, having an armed populace may not work It would lessen the casualty numbers.
Blazer
/ 7th November 2017‘It would lessen the casualty numbers.’…do tell,talk about once upon a time in..the wild,wild,West.
Griff
/ 7th November 2017Yess have a gun problem the answer is of course more guns .
{Sarc}
As many peploe accidentally shoot someone than use a gun for self defense.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
Gerrit
/ 7th November 2017Again it is not the gun or the volume of guns. Is is stupid people with mental issues that cant safely lock away a weapon. People are careless, the gun is not.
Same as road deaths, the car is not at fault, it is the driver.
Griff
/ 7th November 2017If the gun is locked away what use is it when some nut goes postal?
The USA suffers from a simple equation.
More guns more death .
Conservative America is broken.
More have died from gun violence in the USA than have died from Islamic terrorism.
The USA has replied to the terrorist threat with restrictions on Muslims and making it harder to hire a truck.
With mass shootings the reply is to remove restrictions on who can buy and carry guns.
Gerrit
/ 7th November 2017My answer was to the question was not about locking away as in a cabinet with ammo and the bolt in a separate location. But how to carry a gun with the safety on and an empty breech.
More guns = less deaths if open carried.
Problem is there is no way to measure if the church gunman would have carried on his attack if not confronted and contained by open carry users.
Problem with the restrictions on who can buy is that it never stops the crazies. The guns will be underground and easily purchased (like drugs) and the civilian population undefended except for underfunded and under resourced police departments.
Now not saying it is a good position to have civilians open carry AR15’s and AK47’s. But unless the crazies are treated, don’t see any alternative but more shootings.
Problem I see is that to gain notoriety before immolation, the crazies are going to have to “beat” the Las Vegas tally. Not good.
If you are interested in a good book to read regarding this problem, find “Called To Rise” by David Brown. Dallas Police Chief (incidentally a coloured gentleman) His answers are enlightening regarding how to combat drugs, crime and guns. Community policing and decentralisation of police effort. .
Pete George
/ 7th November 2017Suggestions now that it was a gross overreaction to an ongoing domestic dispute, with the church of the killer’s mother in law being the target.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11941180
Pickled Possum
/ 7th November 2017316 MILLION Americans
270-310 MILLION Guns.
Tea Lady says, It’s Gonna get jiggy with it, ova thar soon..
Its the 14th church shooting in Texas since 2012
Isn’t Texas on the Bible Belt? Christians eh!
if not sori Christians
More Men Need to Do Anger Fucken Management FFS
So they don”t go all Rambo when they can’t cope with life’s stresses.
That’s not including those ‘kill the fidels … natural born killers’ dress wearing dudes
They can just fuck off!!! Right now. Says someone quietly in America.
Going on the river, can ya cover me while I’m sailing. Gez bro plz
ps have you finished that list? haha
dont forget to pack yaw SOH
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Leave it to me sis.
Yeah ma rang and asked about the list around 5pm.
I cheated & just read out an old one found in a notebook. Ma’s are easy to fool if you know what you’re doing and they’re not there with you, watching you like a hawk.
Pickled Possum
/ 7th November 2017California has the highest amount of gun deaths
And surprise surprise Texas has the 2nd highest
Every day there is a Worst mass shooting, saga from USA.
Will NZ learn from this.
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Yup. I think so. I have doubts about Corky though.
Corky
/ 7th November 2017New Zealand already has. We are defenceless against the state and criminals. But proactive with murder, wife bashing and baby killing.
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017You might be surprised Corky, to know how many firearms are owned legally by firearms licence holders in NZ. Semi-automatics, which can easily be made full-auto, with one of those ‘bump stops’. And nobody keeps track of how much ammo any particular licence holder is accumulating. I have an ‘associate’ who has over 10,000 rounds in his ‘gun room’, (whose place I will be heading for, when the zombie apocalypse begins 😀 ) But we don’t have the problems the US does. Our system has only one flaw, IMHO. We afford human rights, to those who are sub-human.
patupaiarehe
/ 7th November 2017Here’s the really funny thing. I wouldn’t waste my time applying for a firearms licence, as the police would consider me an ‘unfit person’. And I don’t want to keep real guns in my house anyway. But if the ‘shit hit the fan’, & our shores needed defending, I could be armed & ready in under 1/2 an hour. My ‘responsible associate’ wouldn’t hesitate to arm me under those circumstances, but those only. Which is why our system works.
Alan Wilkinson
/ 7th November 2017Those are just the biggest states, Possum. Click sort on the last column here and you will see Texas is well down the list on a population basis. And Washington DC is by far the worst. Too many Liberals there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by_state
David
/ 7th November 2017“California has the highest amount of gun deaths”
Largest US state at 39m
“And surprise surprise Texas has the 2nd highest”
Second largest state, 27m
“Every day there is a Worst mass shooting, saga from USA.”
Not true
“Will NZ learn from this.”
What will we learn? The US is prepared to accept these deaths as the price of the 2nd amendment? That seems to be the only lesson.
Joe Bloggs
/ 7th November 2017pop quiz:
Which current president of the United States blames the Sutherland Springs shooting on mental illness, but signed a bill allowing the mentally ill. To buy guns, and supported healthcare reforms that don’t cover mental health?
Gezza
/ 7th November 2017Donald Trump. POTUS #45?
High Flying Duck
/ 7th November 2017US Air Force has some questions to answer – they failed to provide required information which would have prevented him purchasing the guns he used:
“The Texas store where the gunman in Sunday’s deadly church shooting bought two of his four guns said he passed his background checks before he made the purchases, even though federal law mandates that he should have been barred from owning firearms.
CBS News’ David Martin confirms that the U.S. Air Force didn’t submit the shooter’s criminal history to FBI, as required by Pentagon rules. The Air Force said it has launched a review of how the service handled Kelley’s criminal records.”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/should-texas-church-shooting-suspect-devin-patrick-kelley-have-been-allowed-to-buy-a-gun/