Open Forum – Thursday

9 November 2017

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59 Comments

  1. David

     /  November 9, 2017

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98682993/editorial-national-wins-a-battle-but-winning-the-war-is-different

    Not sure who is writing the Stuff editorials these days but The Standard must be missing them. How can it be a blow for democracy that all MPs have a select committee to sit on, do they not understand how our parliament work. And using the Republican Party as a warning not to go to negative perhaps they should google Congress, Senate and who is in the White House and the 1000 seats lost over Obama,s term.
    The Speaker election was a debacle albeit a minor one but to paint Labour as pure and good and National as just nasty to poor Jacinda is ridiculous.

    • I felt that she was way out off her depth when it came to the reality of being PM. It’s hard to have too much sympahty for her, though-she wanted it, she has it. Welcome to the real world.

      • She’s an exceptionally good communicator with a most congenial “Hail fellow well met” personality. Will that be enough to take the edge off nasties like Hipkins, Twford and Robertson, the activist like Willy? Can she curb the excesses of the 7% men in her cabinet – Peters, Marks and Shane? Time will tell. I’m not confident.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  November 10, 2017

          I think not. The girly gushing may well wear thin and when it does….

          • Gezza

             /  November 10, 2017

            Girls eh?
            😬

            • She does come across as rather girly-girly and teenagerish.

              The Peters thing is going to put her in a very awkward position indeed. He has dropped the party right in it.

              Gareth Morgan is becoming odder and odder 😦

  2. David

     /  November 9, 2017

    Sorry but the death of the cat coverage is not doing her any favours either, I get her media mates like to look after her in some chivalrous way but they arnt helping her. I think she is doing very well and having spent $7000 last year on chemo for our cat to no avail I feel sorry very sorry for her but this bollocks about the 1st cat is childish nonsense…apparently we have 40,000 homeless people wandering the streets and 300,000 poverty struck children without enough to eat.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  November 9, 2017

      You can’t expect Labour to house the homeless and solve child poverty in a couple of days when National couldn’t in 9 years. Hopefully at least the children are enjoying the childless nonsense.

    • robertguyton

       /  November 9, 2017

      You remember Moonbeam, right?

      • Corky

         /  November 9, 2017

        Who could forget…he lived on prime steak every day. Not that Key ever mentioned that.

    • Gezza

       /  November 9, 2017

      Tbh David I expect her media mates to shove the knife in the minute she stuffs up big time. That’s what they do.

      • Who did mention it, then, Cork ? How do you know it was prime steak ? And if it was, lucky Moonbeam.

        The ‘First Cat’ thing was just silly.Which country do these people think that we live in ?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  November 10, 2017

      Best the poverty struck children don’t eat cats, David. Probably TOP policy though.

  3. Corky

     /  November 9, 2017

    Government to make more enemies. Sometimes it’s best to let sleeping dogs ..sleep.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98686400/government-to-look-into-the-allegations-about-sas-actions-in-afghanistan

    • robertguyton

       /  November 9, 2017

      Good. Has to be done. Truth, you know, is important. Nothing to fear, nothing to hide and other such truisms used so freely by the right when spying issues are discussed.

      • Missy

         /  November 9, 2017

        Defence released the information they had on this, they discredited Nicky Hager, and just because Hager is too arrogant to accept he was wrong doesn’t mean he wasn’t.

        • robertguyton

           /  November 9, 2017

          The truth is quite the opposite, Missy. In any case, we may soon learn who discredited who, in truth. Key’s Government buried the issue as deeply as they could but with a little digging…

          • To anyone in this thread who feels the need to interrogate rather than engage cane we all remember this

            A reasonable standard of etiquette should be maintained, post as you would speak to someone face to face

            • robertguyton

               /  November 9, 2017

              Some here are careless with their slights and seemingly unaware of their put-downs.

            • Blazer probably does talk to people face to face as he does here, traveller.

            • Gezza

               /  November 9, 2017

              Only the once, I would imagine.

            • Blazer

               /  November 10, 2017

              @Gezza..once or twice in the morning..and again..in the..afternoon.

    • Corky

       /  November 9, 2017

      I wonder if Nicky Hager has a new book in the pipeline? Given Labour, to use a runners analogy, must hit the wall sooner or later, they may be ripe for the picking.

      Title: Jacinda Ardern. Labours Sellout Years.

      Maybe he still wants utu from National.

      Title: Nationals Audacious Agenda.

      One things for sure; like rust, Nicky never sleeps.

      • robertguyton

         /  November 9, 2017

        He’s hard-working, alright and as you say, willing to hold Government’s feet to the fire, no matter who’s in power. His Hit and Run was a brilliant expose of Nationals Dirty behaviour and The Hollow Men a perceptive summation of the kind of rot that has set in to the heart of that party.

        • Missy

           /  November 9, 2017

          Hit & Run was no such thing, it was nothing more than a smear on the men and women of the NZDF. His research and supposed journalism on the matter was shoddy or deliberately misleading at best, or outright lying at worst. He made up information, had no corroboration of any of his so-called facts, and couldn’t even get the village correct.

          Hager is selective on what he writes about, and he wilfully leaves out information that doesn’t fit his narrative or conclusion, that came out after Dirty Politics when he admitted he left out information on emails from Labour MPs, and journalists.

          He is a charlatan with a political agenda and doesn’t care how he distorts information to present the conclusion he wants.

          • Blazer

             /  November 9, 2017

            Notice he never gets sued!

            • High Flying Duck

               /  November 9, 2017

              He is very careful with his wording – innuendo and assumption rather than stating as fact. That doesn’t make him any more right.

            • David

               /  November 9, 2017

              He is a trust fund baby so nothing to gain from it.

          • robertguyton

             /  November 9, 2017

            Hold onto that illusion, Missy. You’re going to need something to cling to as the dishonesty of the past 9 years gets exposed to the light of day. Hagar – bad! Key – good!
            Ride-‘m cowboy!

    • Gezza

       /  November 9, 2017

      Possibly banking on Ron Mark using his contacts or cred with Special Forces to get some more gen from the allies?

  4. Corky

     /  November 9, 2017

    NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH

    Mikey will give us his simple recipe for making Kangen alkaline water. This water is put to the test tonight on 7 Sharp. Personally, I wouldn’t touch the stuff. While most alternative practitioners believe the body should be alkaline ( 7- 7.2) , it must be remembered the body also relies on acids to do certain functions.

    However, Mikey believes it’s the fountain of youth , and he drinks it by the gallon. That’s why he only looks 37 ( according to him).

    Gotta love the middle class way.

    i personally prefer structured Hydrogen Water.

  5. Blazer

     /  November 9, 2017

    [Deleted suggestion of suicide. PG]

    • Can he use one of these?

    • Corky

       /  November 9, 2017

      You could do with a little acid reduction, Blazer. Have pen and paper ready. Learn from the great one

      • How do you know it’s a fake duck ?

        • Gezza

           /  November 9, 2017

          I told him.

        • Gezza

           /  November 9, 2017

          Madam, I can assure you the yellow “duck” above is not a duck. If you require further convincing, please refer to the comparison below.

          Sir Gerald Ormsby Battersea Bradders
          Avian Aviation Authority.

          • Exhibit A

            • Gezza

               /  November 10, 2017

              Is that structured water?

            • It may not look like one of YOUR dux, Gezza, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not a real duck. There are different breeds, as you must be aware.

            • Gezza

               /  November 10, 2017

              Well, that’s true Kitty, but if you look closely at Trav’s Exhibit A you will see that it looks quite differerent from the fake plastic or rubber one that Corky thinks looks about 37 & drinks Mikey’s special water.

  6. @Missy”Hager is selective on what he writes about, and he wilfully leaves out information that doesn’t fit his narrative or conclusion”, “He is a charlatan with a political agenda and doesn’t care how he distorts information to present the conclusion he wants”.To be fair this
    sums up everyone in politics, everyone in the media ,everyone on this blog and everyone in life 🙂

  7. Part of a Quora answer to

    Why does the left hate Israel – it seems counter intuitive ?

    In the context of what follows after, I’m inserting the Israel specific but first. Found on Stephen Franks’ website.

    “Israel has been defined by the left as the oppressor, and Palestinians the oppressed. Absolutely nothing can ever shake the left loose from this characterization of the problem. If, tomorrow, a Palestinian lobs a missile onto a school bus full of 3rd grade girls, the western left will see it as another example of how the oppressor (Israel) forced the oppressed (Palestinians) to take extreme, and sadly regrettable – but necessary action, for one must fight oppression, and the oppressor bears the brunt of responsibility. The more Palestinian rockets that fall on elementary schools in Israel, the more evident it is that the oppressors must change their ways in order to end the violence. The oppressed cannot really be blamed for their actions, and never are by the western left, because their actions are borne of desperation.

    There was a time when Israel was seen as oppressed by western liberal elites – back in the kibbutz days, through the ’67 war, and maybe to ’73. The western left kinda liked Jews when they were powerless and at the mercy of others; not so much when they have a powerful military and control of a thriving state. Why? Because then they are no longer ‘oppressed’, and in the Marxian worldview, the only other thing you can ever be is an oppressor. It is binary.

    The Palestinians and their media enablers have done a superior job of framing the conflict in simple, Marxian terms for a western audience. How well has it worked?

    Well, we have “gays for Palestine” marches in San Francisco, rooting for the side that would just love to blindfold all gays and throw them off tall buildings, rather than the side that is one of the most LGBT tolerant societies on the planet. That kind of puzzling behavior is easily understandable once you process it through the oppressor vs oppressed lens. The LGBTQ folks feel they are sticking up for a fellow oppressed group, when what they are really doing is supporting the people who want to slaughter them. It sounds like a paradox, but it isn’t, once you evaluate it in classic Marxian oppressor-vs-oppressed terms.”

    Ok. The first bit

    ““You will undoubtedly get lots of complex and detailed, thoughtful answers to this question, but in my mind it boils down to a very basic situation.

    The left defines the human condition as a struggle between “oppressor” vs. “oppressed”. Every situation, country, conflict, and political or social issue can be and is seen through that lens.

    The left sides with the oppressed, for many reasons: genuine heartfelt belief that the oppressed of the world need support, virtue signaling, etc.

    Perceptive, though it still does not explain why they take that approach and not another.

    The thing to grasp is that theirs is a 100 % coherent world view. It makes total sense to the left. It has the intellectual rigor and coherence of applied Marxism, in a way that has tremendous power for people who view the world that way. The Marxian world of oppressed vs oppressor is taught and reinforced at universities, and then reinforced through peer pressure, social shaming, and clique formation.

    If you don’t question the premises, including that humans are perfectible under enough coercion from moral and intellectual superiors.

    It has given us everything from “white privilege” to “intersectionality” to just about every other cause of the modern left. EVERY leftist cause has oppressor vs oppressed at the core. Black lives matter, rights of illegal immigrants, you name it, and oppressor vs oppressed is what it’s about.”

    http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/why-does-the-left-hate-israel-it-seems-counterintuitive/

    • Blazer

       /  November 9, 2017

      yes in Franks world people should just passively accept adverse situations…might is ..right.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  November 9, 2017

        Equally correct to say ‘might is …not always wrong

        • Gezza

           /  November 9, 2017

          Well, that’s probably something a lot of leaders would agree on – Putin, Erdogan, Xi etc

    • phantom snowflake

       /  November 9, 2017

      I’ll keep this really simple: An “Us vs.Them” mentality is not something The Left have a monopoly on.

  8. Corky

     /  November 10, 2017

    Just saw one of New Zealand’s dumbest citizens. A drug dealer in Wellington was arrested after four people became ill smoking synthetics

    He lived in ‘Jake Heke’ run down state house..Outside was parked a Mustang, and what looked like a very rare 1969-70, done up, Ford Zodiac.

    Yep, this bro has a problem. Switched on dealers house their exotic cars in other areas of New Zealand. They travel to said areas when they want to drive them. They have a sacrifice car at their regular residence to give cops something to confiscate and boast about. Nothing too flash, maybe a Subaru Levorg AWD.