Slouches off couches in ‘Work for the Dole’

In an interview on Q&A Shane Jones said that he wants to get young people off couches and into work, in what he describes as work-for-dole initiatives. He says that Labour supports the concept but not the name.

One of the key aims as Minister of Regional Economic Development is to get regional and rural unemployed into work, but this will presumably require coordination with the Minister of Employment and the Minister for Social Development.

I’m calling it Work for the Dole. It may be the Work Readiness Kaupapa. But I am not going to remain silent any longer while my young ne’er-do-well nephews in Kaikohe and other places fall victims to the gangs and they’re in Disneyland. As far as I’m concerned, that’s not happening any more.

There could be some delicate balancing between providing incentives and pushing unemployed people into Government work schemes, and what some have criticised as a punitive approach to people on benefits.

SHANE I don’t want people on the unemployment benefit. I don’t want to have to rely on Filipinos to plant my pine trees. These people will be made to go-

CORIN But you’re implying they’re going to be forced to work.

SHANE No, no, please. They’ll be made to go to work, and where it is necessary, to pay them.

This could be challenging, given the resistance by some to move significant distances from their couches to work.

Q&A interview and 1 News report: ‘There will be no more sitting on the couch’ – Shane Jones goes full throttle on work-for-the-dole scheme

The Regional Economic Development Minister announced his proposal in October and says he has held a number of discussions with Labour who are “behind the concept” but admitted they didn’t like the term work-for-the-dole.

“They probably have a slightly different view of the incentives that should be used,” Mr Jones said on TVNZ’s Q+A programme this morning.

Relevant segment of the transcript:

CORIN Give me some examples of how it’s going to benefit a young Kiwi in the regions who’s struggling to get a job, who’s in a depressed area. Tell me how it’s going to help.

SHANE I think that’s a bloody good question, actually. If I take, for example, the $10 million that would be needed to really upgrade connectivity from where, say, the new Hawaiki cable’s going to arrive up to Kaitaia. Unless you have connectivity in the Kaitaias of the world, then the firms that are there aren’t going to flourish, and then that provides an incentive for employment to grow. But I will say something that really bothers me immensely. Throughout New Zealand, we’ve got this category of young men and women called NIETs – not in employment or training. It’s a category that data’s collected from the stats department. Nigh on $60,000 was allocated by Steven Joyce, and for reasons I’ve never fully worked out, not a cracker, a brass razoo, was actually spent. Unless we build programmes actually employing these young men, then the ne’er-do-well nephs are going to disappear consistently-

CORIN So this is the Work for the Dole idea which you raised.

SHANE I love the idea, and by Christmas, I am going to have announced at least four projects. I’ve been counselled by my friends in Labour. They don’t like the term Work for the Dole, and it’s probably going to be called Work Ready.

CORIN What is it? Is it actually work for the dole? Are they going to be working and getting an unemployment benefit?

SHANE Mm. I don’t want people on the unemployment benefit. I don’t want to have to rely on Filipinos to plant my pine trees. These people will be made to go-

CORIN But you’re implying they’re going to be forced to work.

SHANE No, no, please. They’ll be made to go to work, and where it is necessary, to pay them. They’ll have to receive a minimum wage, but there will be no more sitting on the couch.

CORIN How do you force them to do it?

SHANE Just wait and see until my four announcements are out.

CORIN No. Without specifics, it’s a big issue to say you’re going to force those NIETs to actually work.

SHANE Well, I’m not the Minister of Social Welfare, but read my lips – I’m sick and tired of watching the ne’er-do-well nephs sitting on the couch doing nothing, and I, as a Maori politician and a Maori leader, I’m not going to tolerate it any longer. I’m one voice in amongst 20 Cabinet ministers, but read my lips – that is the advocacy I’m going to bring.

CORIN How are you going to get it through Cabinet?

SHANE Yes, it’s obviously a mixture of charm and knowledge, but I’m one of 20.

CORIN Have you talked to your Labour colleagues about this and about how you might be able to do it?

SHANE I’ve had a number of discussions, in fairness to my Labour colleagues, and they’re behind the kaupapa, they’re behind the concept. They probably have a slightly different view of the incentives that should be used, but I’d be nothing other than honest if I didn’t say to you that’s the quality of my advocacy.

CORIN Right, so let’s just be clear here. You are going to push a Work for the Dole scheme through Cabinet. You’re going to try.

SHANE I am going to take proposals to Cabinet. I’m calling it Work for the Dole. It may be the Work Readiness Kaupapa. But I am not going to remain silent any longer while my young ne’er-do-well nephews in Kaikohe and other places fall victims to the gangs and they’re in Disneyland. As far as I’m concerned, that’s not happening any more.

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110 Comments

  1. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    People love to kick the shit out of Kaikohe …

    It’s a sure-fire 100% correct way to recognize Rightie *arseholes*

    Poor Jonesy, he’s gotta try to appear like a rough’n’tough Rightie, and maybe retain one or two of the KFL, Hobson’s Pledge voters – Alan Titford for instance – while operating within a fairly Progressive Centre-Left Coalition (PCC) …

    The more uncouth he gets the more negatively he stands out.

    • There’s a clash between his propensity for showing off his eloquence and oratory, and his attempts to sound like he’s one of the bros.

      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2017

        Yup. I love it. He always never quite pulls it off because a word here is not the correct one he meant, or his grammar is screwed up.

        I often think he’s secretly trying to emulate Billy T James, but Billy T could actually always pull that sort of eudite bro thing off. Usally because he never tried to play the plummy pom & the slangy bro in the same character at the same time. But the Joneser does.

        The Joneser & his nephs will be good to watch. Should be a good series.

  2. Blazer

     /  December 4, 2017

    about time he did some work himself..the bludger.

    • Ray

       /  December 4, 2017

      I am with Blazer on this.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 4, 2017

        I’m not. It’s obvious that neither of you has the slightest idea of what MPs do and the hours they work, still less Ministers. One I knew routinely did 17 hour days.

        • slept in his office…did he.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 4, 2017

            No, if that’s a question (no ?). He left home at an hour when you were probably still snoring. His partner is a very supportive woman, and a very tolerant one.

            • I think I’m on safe ground in saying Jones wouldn’t put in..17 hour..days.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 4, 2017

              I have no idea and neither have you, so stop acting as if you do know.

  3. David

     /  December 4, 2017

    He should go to National for support, Greens wont and Ardern will have to do the unions bidding.

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      He’s speaking for Labour and the Greens David … and yes, they are quite rightly doing the unions bidding and paying the minimum wage …

  4. Strong For Life

     /  December 4, 2017

    Sounds good and feasible. Unfortunately, many similar schemes have been tried in the past and failed. This will fail too.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 4, 2017

      Last time, the Greens kicked up a fuss about it being slave labour.In fact, if the UB and the extra were divided by 20 (it was 20 hours) it was quite a good hourly rate, But the Greens insisted that it was $1 an hour and ignored the amount that WINZ was paying people to do nothing. This cannot be good for anyone-especially the young. It may seem great to a teenager, but for anyone older, it could be soul-destroying.

      • Blazer

         /  December 4, 2017

        I wonder are you paid to do..nothing..is every superannuitant paid to do..nothing?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 4, 2017

          I am not a superannuitant, but yes, one could say that of them-and very, very few people would have paid enough tax to cover their super payments.

          My circumstances are none of your business, so don’t bother to pry.

          • Blazer

             /  December 4, 2017

            good to see that you agree superannuitants are paid to do ..nothing.You have already revealed your circumstances..no need to ..pry..you see the world through your personal..anecdotes..very quaint.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 5, 2017

              Don’t be so bloody silly. You are increasingly seeming obsessive and like a stalker. If you don’t believe me, that’s too bad, it won’t change the truth. Mind your own damned business and don’t be so nosy. And stop putting words in people’s mouths. It’s childish and tiresome.

              Repeat; my circumstances are none of your business, and prying will not make me reveal them. Believe that I am a superannuitant if you like, I don’t care.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 4, 2017

          Do stop being so nasty; you are not doing yourself any favours.

  5. Tipene

     /  December 4, 2017

    Jones won’t be blocked by Cabinet – he will ultimately be blocked by the Human Rights Commission, who actually holds more influencing power in NZ than Cabinet.

    Wait and see.

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 4, 2017

    I’ve seen communities where all the work is done by the old people. It’s not pretty. Jones is right in both senses. Jacinda will have to choose between her youth vote and fixing it.

  7. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    To their credit LL (Labour-led) have bowed to Union pressure and will be paying what Jonesy calls “at least the minimum wage” …

    But do we really need regional development that is essentially a) Forestry subsidy – “tree planting” b) Farm subsidy – “riparian planting” and c) Infrastructure subsidy – “railways”?

    There are burgeoning industries here in Northland (Shane’s own rohe) just begging for ‘development’ awhi … most notably industrial hemp and, in anticipation of re-legalization, cannabis … but also the Arts & culture, environmental, heritage and cultural tourism – along with all tourism – value added food, rongoa products including medical cannabis ones … and the beat goes on … pest control and possum products …

    So, as I said last night, get your business plan in to Jonesy … the more uncouthly written the better …. and some derogatory comments about your own whanau should seal the deal …

    • sorethumb

       /  December 4, 2017

      At Christchurch Airport 2 days ago. 10 busses with Chinese or Korean drivers and one bus and a mini van with a Kiwi driver. That’s the tourist industry.
      …….
      They all say there is “huge potential for tourism”

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 4, 2017

        Busses,/b> are kisses-or boats.It’s hard to imagine that there were 10 boats at the airport, still less that sorethumb exchanged kisses with 10 Asian drivers.

        Buses is the plural of bus.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 4, 2017

          Oh damn.

          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2017

            From my own experience, correcting someone’s spelling, grammar, or typographical finesse, tends to massively increase the chances of that sort of thing happening to one very quickly afterwards. 😕

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 4, 2017

              Yes-like forgetting to close bold, italic or underline with />.

              It would be interesting to be greeted with 10 busses as a welcome to NZ.

              Kiss-kiss-kiss-kiss….

  8. Corky

     /  December 4, 2017

    Positive testing of sewage water for ‘P’ means Jones scheme will be going nowhere in Northland.. A hit of P, and mellowing out on the couch, Trumps planting pine trees in the blazing sun for eight hours a day.

    Jones scheme does, however, allow rabid leftwing ideologues to tee off and become nasty, as Pati has shown above.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 4, 2017

      All the P users will be peeing in the garden to stop it showing up in the water.

  9. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    Orhhh, Corky … How about “Perceptive, suitably skeptical analysis with attenuating social comment and acerbic wit”?

    Or, as you replied to my very similar post late last night …

    “You beat me to the punch, Parti. Jones had signed his political death warrant”.

    That’s our one and only engagement for today …

    See if you can rile me up enough to break this promise … after all, that’s what you’re here for …

  10. We had full employment til the bankers took over our country. Kick them out and give EVERYBODY a job like we used to have. Give back all our assets and stop picking on so called dole bludgers, taking everybody’s eyes off the real bludgers … the corporations for instance who pay no tax, the property speculators that live offshore, the politicians on perks for life. That would do more to fix our economy than making a few people work for the dole. If you must then just give those people a decent job period.

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      While I personally like some of these ideas & there’s a lot to be said for giving everybody a decent well-paying job for life nobody’s ever really come up yet with a successful way of doing it & making work, & making it economically feasible, when not everbody has the same attitudes, skills, abilities, commitment, wants, needs, intentions, priorities, drive, & agreement on how much of their income they should surrender to pay for someone else’s pleasures. Also, there’ll always be those who prefer to, say, make a fortune manufacturuing & selling addictive substances like P & creating a market for the earnings of those who want to indulge.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 4, 2017

        Where P = Pharma that’s a perfect description of large aspects of our ‘health’ industry … One of the addictive substances contributing to ‘demand’ being stress …

        Thank God not everybody has the same attitudes … eh?

        • Gezza

           /  December 4, 2017

          Well, that too. But I think you’ve missed my point. Or just blithely discounted it.

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 4, 2017

            Pay whatever level of Tax=Love is required to make it work? Evidence-informed, of course.

            Recognize people’s differences and progressively recreate society to encourage, celebrate and affirm them, realizing their potential fully, not just financially …

            “We all do better when we all do better” …

            Legalize all drugs along the lines of Portugal’s model?

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              Your first sentence. Getting a bit too esoteric there, possibly, for me.

              Evidence-informed? Which single country is successfully running exactly along all the various different societal & economic lines you propose?

              Agree with you about legalising all illegal drugs & treating harmful addictions to them as a health issue. That’s down to Zedd’s unstinting &, I think, well-argued advocacy.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              The ‘which country’ question is a dead letter (and I admit I have used it).

              It’s like pre-Abolitionists arguing, “So where are these successful countries that don’t have slavery?”

              Like a neoliberalist arguing, “So where are these examples of First World countries succeeding when they pay workers a living wage?”

              Doesn’t mean we can’t thoroughly evaluate and try some things …

              The option is crisis-management, as in the 1930’s Great Depression …

              Oh my goodness … and look what they came up with? Social Security.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              Your 2nd two paras there. Well, no it’s not. I think those are false eqiuvalences.

              It’s just a question from seeking to establish whether you’re trying to advocate changes to how the world runs to the that would really best suit you, personally, but that might not suit lots of others.

              I certainly think neoloberalism & free markets are insufficient & in many ways bad for a democratic society. Capitalism, less so. They all have to be regulated & their excesses prevented.

              And so, while I’m open to a good argument, I’m all for giving alternative options of governance a try if I think they’re a workable proposition, I like to see where they’ve been shown to be a workable proposition. Or where they are so clearly broadly beneficial & the ideas so well thought out & costed, & explained, that they have attracted strong & intelligent support from large numbers of people.

              I’m still waiting for this to happen. You know, the unstoppable worldwide change, the thousand years of peace & goodwill & plenty whose time has come. Like democracy once seemed to be. It looks at the moment to me still like that’s going to have to await the Second Coming, when, the Christian Fundamentalists assure us, it will be forced on us all for by the wise & benevolent Son of God.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              Well, okay … I myself and Professor Janine Hayward (no doubt among many others) believe that “an alternative option of governance” was co-created by agreement between Rangatira and The Crown on 5 & 6 February 1840 at Waitangi …

              See 42.40 onwards …

      • Ah but we did have that 🙂 In my youth we all had jobs, all housed, no child poverty, youth suicide & all the rest that goes along with neo lib economics. So yes it can be done & has been proven. I get your point & the point of the article, but looking at the bigger picture how did we get to this place? We need to go back & fix that first. Neo lib doesn’t work & it only benefits a tiny %. Unemployment is the result & these new schemes have the effect of blaming those at the bottom of the pile so to speak for the predicament our country is in. My 2c worth anyway.

        • Gezza

           /  December 4, 2017

          I agree with you about neo-lib economics Pam. Actually we had about 3% unemployment. It didn’t vary much. My old man was an employment officer. His job was to find jobs with employers for the few jobless in his region. A few of them continually jacked it in *sick*, because the surfing was excellent in Summer in my rohe!

          But there were also other factors that contributed to the general well-being of society back then too.

          One of them, off the top of my head, was that couples got married, & took personal responsibility for teaching sound values & community spirit to their children. Everybody did. Your kids misbehaved, the neigbours gave them a tongue lashing & reported them to your olds. They handled it. Your olds told you nobody owed you a living & to get a job & better yourself.

          Another factor was there were a lot fewer expensive toys, diversions, & drugs available, although that rapidly changed when we got into new stuff in a BIG way.

          • High Flying Duck

             /  December 4, 2017

            There were also thousands of Government subsidised make-work jobs which were “work for the dole” done in a less explicit manner.
            This was coupled with high prices, protectionism and growing deficits that almost bankrupted the country.
            Other than that, it was a utopian paradise alright.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              As I recall, the legend is that it was all good until Muldoon buggered it with whiskey & Think Big.

            • PDB

               /  December 4, 2017

              The DPB – introduced by Norman Kirk in 1973 was the start of the NZ govt’s issues (that still remain today and have been greatly expanded) with welfare dependency, fathers dodging responsibility for their children, and a welfare culture being formed in this country.

            • Blazer

               /  December 4, 2017

          • High Flying Duck

             /  December 4, 2017

            On the other factors though – agree with you wholeheartedly!

          • Yes, truth what you say. There are always those who will abuse the system. Fact. Still there’s no denying our country’s been raped & pillaged by the rich & it’s suffering. It just gets right up my nose when they roll out this old tried & true poke at the poor when the rich get off scot free. It’s purely a smoke screen taking the eyes of the gullible off the real problem. IMO the true couch slouchers are the John Keys of this world. And see the imbalance in who is charged for benefit fraud as against white collar fraud. Very telling.

        • PDB

           /  December 4, 2017

          “In my youth we all had jobs, all housed, no child poverty, youth suicide & all the rest”

          This is nonsense of course ( https://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-markman-phd/past-less-intense-than-present_b_987726.html), and a whole lot of other issues were also in place that we don’t have to deal with today or are actively trying to deal with whilst in the past these were either hidden or ignored. Unemployment currently sits at under 5% – hardly a disaster.

          NZ of today is a classic mixed economy, not a neo-liberal one. In fact by world standards it sits easily on the socialist side of the dividing line. Therefore the issues we do face are more likely due to our many socialist policies, not the so-called ‘neo liberal’ ones.

          The current push from the left to have obligation-free benefits will only worsen the problem.

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 4, 2017

            PDB, if unemployment hasn’t changed and is “hardly a disaster”, and a “classic mixed economy” takes care of its unemployed … What’s the problem?

    • never truer words spoken..Pam.

      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2017

        That’s fascinating Blazer. I clicked on your red name there & chose “Open In New Tab”, & it kept going to & opening MY WordPress warrior Gravatar. Why is that? What are you up to there?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 4, 2017

          Which planet did you grow up on, Pam ?

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 4, 2017

            I’d suggest the planet ’empathetic, creative free thinker’ Miss Kitty, which most people were forcibly evacuated from at around age 5 …

          • PDB

             /  December 4, 2017

            Can’t have been in NZ Kitty, for instance between 1976-1981 unemployment in this country went up by 860%!

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 4, 2017

              BY HOW MUCH ??? (faints)

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 4, 2017

              As there were many babies adopted out before the DPB, it’s obvious that not everyone did marry and look after their children. Some people I knew had two adopted daughters and had no trouble adopting them; an elderly nighbours had an adopted son. I know of quite a few adopted ‘children’ who are now middle-aged.

              If people had imbued their children with good values, surely those children would have carried on the good work.

              Pam, it’s highly unlikely that John Key made his money or became PM by sitting on his bum, contrary to what the envious who have not his brains, work ethic or ability would like to think. He began life in a state house as the child of a mother who was widowed at a young age.

              My stepfather began life in a back street in the UK, one of a large family whose mother was widowed when the father-a railway worker-died. He began work as a linesman, came to NZ, began a small business and built it up. He said that one day he’d be employing 100 men, and he went above this number. He didn’t make as much money as the John Keys of the world, but he ended up a rich man with 9 entries in the Business Who’s Who.

  11. George

     /  December 4, 2017

    His scheme looks good.
    Right up to the pre employment drug tests.
    And the bros out there planting trees at the right time are going to do what exactly for the other 9 months of the year ?????

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      After Corky’s, your’s sounds almost like a ‘schooled’ response George …

      The funny thing is … funny as in ‘culturally insane’ … is that Righties constantly complain about ‘these people’ NOT working … the youthful, drug addled, brown, unemployed, lazy, criminal or prospective crim, “inter-generational” welfare bludger …

      Now you’re coming down hard on a plan to get ‘them’ working …

      My question remains: Will subsidizing established businesses, forest and farm, and regional transport infrastructure – which government ought to provide or maintain anyhow – really provide long-term, sustainable, empowering, satisfying employment for as many people as possible … ongoing …

      If it doesn’t, it ain’t really regional development, which Labour-led Jonesy is conflating with ‘Ready for Work’, not me …

      • George

         /  December 4, 2017

        I’ve planted trees. And pruned them and felled them for timber and posts.
        The bush is not where you want these people not only as a matter of their safety but the safety of every-one else in the bush

        • PartisanZ

           /  December 4, 2017

          I personally know some of “these people” who have gone from a relatively indolent unemployed ‘lifestyle’ – never contrived or entirely of their own making – to work in the depths of the forest.

          None of them ever fitted the Rightie “these people” criteria. They have all sorts of complex and, as duperex put it, “extraordinary” circumstances … not unlike every other human being …

          If what you mean is: There won’t be any vetting or filtering processes? I thoroughly disagree.

          But if what you mean is: There should be other options? I totally concur …

  12. sorethumb

     /  December 4, 2017

    Over 30% of All American Jobs to Be Lost to Automation by 2030, Says New Study
    http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/a-new-study-says-a-third-of-all-us-workers-to-be-replaced-with-robots-by-2030

  13. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    These “couch slouchers” in-the-making from Jonsey’s own rohe have come up with a fabulous idea for his ‘Work for the Dole’ scheme he’s struggling to call ‘Ready for Work’ … I guess the latter lacks a derogatory element?

    ‘Students wage bio-warfare against pest plant’ – Herald

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11950383

    And they’re only tackling Tradescantia! There’s dozens of noxious weeds in Northland alone worthy of this treatment – privet, tobacco-weed, lantana – and the effects would be multiple. Privet could also be a firewood industry … large tobacco-weed too … tourism will benefit from ‘native only’ roadsides … all sorts a good stuff …

    I’ll send Jonesy’s Office this article today … accompanied by an uncouth cover letter … That should get it looked at quicker …

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      Orha, but we’re not talking about the European and Asian kids, are we?

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      I’ll send Jonesy’s Office this article today … accompanied by an uncouth cover letter … That should get it looked at quicker …

      Cool 👍🏼!

      The response(s) could be fascinating, Parti! 😀

      Report back? 😳

  14. sorethumb

     /  December 4, 2017

    I think Jones is partly right but you have to consider the human psychi and why motivates us and why we fail. You can’t compare a motivated worker with a non motivated until you know what’s going on in their heads. New Zealand is now more expensive than japan and pay rates are piddling. You have people getting somewhere in life looking down on those who never will.
    And you have holier than thou’s and libertarinas (Daivid farrar) promoting immigration/globalisation so that living standards for a large chunk of the population are being forced down – in line with ecological principles (resource:population ratios)

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      ” … looking down on those who never will” says it all …

  15. duperez

     /  December 4, 2017

    The problems are complex. Jones (probably like any politician) wants the solutions, wants them to be ‘quick fixes’ and most importantly wants the perception to be created that there are quick fixes that will be sustainable.

    The easy lines like ‘slouches off couches’ and ‘work for the dole’ are like fancy decorations on the front on a building. You open the door below those beaming signs hopes and what’s inside is deep and dark.

    Flicking a switch isn’t going to do it. Isn’t going to do it for the inmates and isn’t going to do it for the expectant onlookers, the demanding who think it’s as easy as flicking the switch and that’s all that needs to be done for things to be good.

    Back to PartisanZ mentioning kicking the shit out of Kaikohe. I’ve written about that area a couple of times this year.

    When we were kids in that district most homes had someone who got out of bed every morning and went to work. Kids went to school with the expectation that when they finished school they would get a job. That’s what you did, that was the pattern of life to be repeated. That might mean going to the big smoke of Whangarei or Auckland. So they, we, ‘got jobs’, went to work or went to tertiary education which led to jobs.

    We got jobs, hooked up with partners and we both got up every morning and went to work. Money worked for, money earned, money for living. And our kids went to school, an established pattern of living destined to be sustained by being repeated.

    It’s very easy for us to say “the bastards should get jobs and shouldn’t be getting money for nothing.” How nice to think of the ‘layabouts’, the latest of generations living lives so different than those in the ordered, ordinary, pattern would suddenly spring out of bed to head off to work.

    Something at least seems to be about to be done. In a sense a switch is going to be flicked but it’s not going to be magic. Hopefully the flippancy and turn of phrase of Shane Jones are surpassed by substance and grit. Extra-ordinary existences demand the latter.

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      One of your best, dupers. 👍🏼

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      Yes, the “layabouts” extra-ordinary existences …

      Let’s hope the substance of Jonesy’s grit is surpassed by schemes that give these youngsters the same respect any youth should get; that they have the potential to be unique, original, eclectic, creative, collaborative business entreprenuers, social enterprisers and community volunteers the equal of any.

      That their ‘working lives’ do not need to be confined to planting trees forestry companies (including incorporations) should themselves pay people to plant, do riparian planting farmers should do themselves or pay people to do, or build railways government should have maintained or provided as a matter of course …

      And I acknowledge you gotta start somewhere.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 4, 2017

        I should have included “employees”, where employee [or union] equals a form of business partner and the employment contract [or collective agreement] a kind of Te Tiriti o Mahi…

        • PartisanZ

           /  December 4, 2017

          The alternative is clearly wage-slavery …

          Without ‘equal’ bargaining power implied by “partnership”, the employees situation is allegorically the same as being ‘occupied’ by a dominant employer culture …

          That’s what some [and perhaps many] of our immigrants experience … along with most, if not all, of our young people …

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 4, 2017

            That’ll teach them ‘the Law of the Jungle’ eh?

  16. Zedd

     /  December 4, 2017

    I heard Jacinda say that Lab. support the idea, but not the name ‘work for the dole’. She said ‘yes, lets get the young people to work, but not pay them the dole hourly rate.. but pay a decent wage’ for the work they do. (paraphrase) BUT I think the focus needs to be on education & training, to upskill them ready for work.. not just yell “GET BACK TO WORK !”

    The whole policy of ‘leave it to the markets’ as was championed for 9 loooong years under Natz. did not work; eg zero-hour contracts, minimum & low wage, for most workers & the widening gap between rich & poor, just getting wider.

    Any other option, designed to get the young folks ‘off the couch’ & into work has to be better for the economy & the country !

    methinks the right-wing media are just trying to create ‘division’ between Lab/NZF/Grns.. where really none exists (yet) 🙂

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      Last sentence. Yup.

      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2017

        Except it’s just “the media”. There’s not really much of a left/right divide when it comes to the msm continually stirring the pot to create headlines & stuff for their bimbos to breathlessly report on with faux serious expressions & terrible accents.

  17. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    I don’t think there is a Left-Wing and Right-Wing mainstream media so much nowadays Zedd.

    In order to compete with the politically polarized social media, e-media and blogosphere … there’s mostly just a pack of dialectic-addicted, sense-murdering, salivating whore-wolves baying for blood, ready to tear apart anything and anyone from any camp because ‘blood & gore’, body-count and scandal, sells momentary attention to their ‘sites’ … what used to be called ‘ratings’ … enough to keep existing or win new advertisers …

    It’s a bit like housing really … or commodified ‘work’ … its just a ‘market’ …

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 4, 2017

      SNAP Gezza! We musta been writing those each at the same time …

      • Gezza

         /  December 4, 2017

        👍🏼
        I think I might’ve been a bit more succinct.

        • PartisanZ

           /  December 4, 2017

          But not nearly as passionate, descriptive and illustrative …

          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2017

            I dunno. Did you picture

            stirring a big cauldron of steaming bullshit, & Katie burbling on blondely & breathlessly in a jacket that’s too small for her superstructure to be done up about something totally pointless & uninteresting, like I did?

  18. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    Even as late as back in the 90s, but certainly the 60s, 70s and 80s, a Kiwi song might have hit the airways, “Get those slouchers off the couches … Yeah!”

  19. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    Mike Hosking says “Stop handing out money for free”

    You mean like the dole Mike?

    And then he says, “Welfare is a two-way street. We simply cannot hand out money for nothing the way we do”.

    You mean a two way street like ‘Ready for Work’ Mike?

    Really he thinks “It is a sensible solid and good idea, and Shane Jones should hold his coalition snowflakes to account … You (NEETs) [the “Nephs”] might develop an appetite for work. You might find the inspiration and dignity that comes with work”.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11952642

    I hope they can find enough NEETs? I wonder how many there evidencially [might be new word # 111?] actually are?

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      Might be a new word but evidentially already exists & has the meaning you intend to convey I think.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 4, 2017

        Thanks … although my “evidentially” is underlined Red …

        and I can’t find a synonym for “evidentially” …

        Shall we have a wee wager?

        … the counter stands ready to restart at 110 …

        • Gezza

           /  December 4, 2017

          I don’t bet. Never see the sense of wasting money on a hunch or a hope.

          Evidential, the adjective, has the sense & meaning you were after, & adding “ly” to an adjective is a perfectly normal & standard approach in English to create the adverb.

          Hang on, though, I’ll have a hunt for a definition online.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              You bet all right … you just did … get yourself a TAB account, its fun!

              It doesn’t have its own listing in the dictionary though, does it?

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              Whoops … you still placing bets?

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              No. I didn’t bet. I just checked whether my assumption & recollection were correct. I hope you’re not gong to get back into telling me what I meant, or what I did, when I didn’t?

              And there are dictionary defintions of “evidentially” available I believe.

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              I think this evidentially establishes that my recollection the word has its own definition in dictionaries is correct. Agreed?
              https://www.onelook.com/?w=evidentially&ls=a

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              Not convinced, sorry …

              http://www.dictionary.com/browse/evidentially

              And search result for “evidentially” …

              https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/evidential

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              Doesn’t matter to me (or anyone else probably) whether YOU’re not convnvinced. Fact is, it does. Sorry.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              It was a long-running bet though eh? You only need win/lose to create a ‘wager’ IMHO …

            • Gezza

               /  December 4, 2017

              I think you only bet or wager on a win / lose situation if you SAY you bet on it (the slang or colloquial meaning) or if you place a stake on it (the classical, true definition of a bet or wager).

              It seems to me you might actually be describing a Partibet and/or a Partiwager.

              But I’ve frankly lost all interest where the heck you’re going with this & and why on earth you’re bothering? All I did was point out there’s already a valid word in the dictionaries – “evidentially” – that already covers the meaning of your new word – “evidencially” – & I’m quite happy to leave it here as the rest seems to be a waste of time.

              I’m reasonably confident the word “evidentially” continue to get more regular use in the English-speaking world than yours. Although I wish you all the best with getting it added to The Oxford & orher dictionaries.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 4, 2017

              On the subject of evidence, I take it there was nothing other than the correct spelling and usage of the word “evidentially” you deem worthy of addressing in my original comment?

              For instance, how many NEETs are there? And what evidence exists?

              Here’s Labour – ““Under National, the number of 15-24 year olds who are not in education, employment or training (NEET) has spiralled to more than 90,000, a 50 per cent increase since National came to office”

              http://www.labour.org.nz/nothing_neat_about_national_s_record_on_neets

              And here’s MBIE – “Overall, Pacific peoples have a higher NEET rate than Europeans and Asians. However, over the past three years, Pacific peoples had a lower NEET rate than Māori”.

              What’s fascinating to me about Table 2. is the 10.2% total of Europeans in the 15 – 24 age group. I wonder if it’s possible to arrive at a figure adjusted for systemic advantages?

          • Gezza

             /  December 4, 2017

            On the subject of evidence, I take it there was nothing other than the correct spelling and usage of the word “evidentially” you deem worthy of addressing in my original comment?

            Well there might have been. But, apart from Blazer & Corky, & maybe nowadays Robert, I just don’t like to see someone make a fool of themselves unnecessarily, so I just wanted to point out that a word already exists with meaning & the purpose for which you thought you’d just invented a completely new but unnecessary Partiword.

            (That’s my new word, by the way – do you like it? It comes with a neutral tag. I attach no negative meaning to it. It just means: “a new word, invented by PartisanZ, to describe something that doesn’t already have a descriptive word”.)

            I would have left it there & probably gone back to look at your substantive post – but a quick scroll up will show you why that didn’t happen. You just kept arguing & banging on & I just kept having to correct you. I’m in a hot tub at the moment & the iPad’s running down. I don’t like to charge it up while I’m posting.I’m sure the last thing anyone wants is for me to have unfortunate experience with live current. I might get back to your post above later.

            • Blazer

               /  December 4, 2017

              sad…’ But, apart from Blazer & Corky, & maybe nowadays Robert, I just don’t like to see someone make a fool of themselves unnecessarily’…is that really ..you Gezza?

    • They hand out money to corporations for free. No tax for them. They hand out our water for close to free to the Chinese & whoever else wants it. Didn’t Judith Collins co. pillage the Northland swamp kauri to the Chinese when it could’ve been left here for local artisans’ employment.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 4, 2017

        Yep, and couldn’t artisans employment be part of regional development and ‘Ready for Work’ … although in an artisan’s case “ready” might take on slightly different connotations?

  20. PartisanZ

     /  December 4, 2017

    When the NEETs are all gainfully employed, circulating their “at least minimum wage” dollars throughout the ‘lesser’ economy, personally satisfied and happy, and behaving in a socially responsible manner … WHO THE HELL ARE THE RIGHTIES GOING TO KICK AROUND!!!

    • Gezza

       /  December 4, 2017

      Let’s get there first. Then we can see. Bound to be others.

  21. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 4, 2017

    The most skillful slouches on couches are not idle, they are ill. Determinedly. Shifting that cultural malaise will be a herculean task.

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