Open Forum – Wednesday

6 December 2017

Forum

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33 Comments

  1. PartisanZ

     /  December 6, 2017

    Is this a venture into opinion from StatisticsNZ?

    ‘Nearly two-thirds of households make enough to live on’

    https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/nearly-two-thirds-of-households-make-enough-to-live-on

    A very telling last sentence, “To measure income adequacy, respondents were asked if their and their partner’s combined income was enough to meet their everyday needs for items such as accommodation, food, clothing, and other necessities.”

    Depends what we mean by “adequate” and “enough” I reckon. The last sentence assumes that A) households have two incomes, and B) “everyday needs like accommodation, food, clothing and other necessities” are an adequate definition of enough.

    Is that all we aspire to?

    • Gezza

       /  December 6, 2017

      My connection’s too slow at the moment to open that link & see that sentence in full context, but tbh I did get the feeling that for some of those really keen on the UBI idea, yeah, that was pretty much all they aspired to.

      It also depends I guess on what is included in “other necessities”. Wouldn’t mind seeing the survey questionnaire. Stats Department’s summaries aren’t always particularly informative.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 6, 2017

      The whole purpose of socialist governments is to make more than half the population dependent on them and hence hostage voters.

  2. So, did National Standards do the job it was claimed they would do?
    No.
    They were a failure.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  December 6, 2017

      Teachers are saying reading comprehension is down due to the rise of devices and parents not reading to children any more.
      National Standards had nothing to do with it.
      Another teacher said it was because NZ doesn’t teach methodically how to read and make sounds so children are not learning vital skills. This is what is done in the top countries.

      The issues are societal and curriculum based, not NS.

      • Yeah, yeah. National Standards were going to solve all the ills of the education system. They proved, as predicted by education professionals everywhere, to be counter-productive. The results tell the story. Stubborn National plugged on regardless and now we see clearly how misguided they were.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  December 6, 2017

          So unhelpful and unproductive that Chris Hipkins has told schools they can keep using them if they wish, as parents have said they like the clarity they bring.

          • robertguyton

             /  December 6, 2017

            So parents could clearly see the decline in their children’s educational standards? Thanks, National.

            • Gezza

               /  December 6, 2017

              Well, yes. Why are you making the Righties’ argument – that the state-funded teachers are getting progressively worse – for them?

            • robertguyton

               /  December 6, 2017

              The Righties had their crabbed hands on the “education tiller” for 9 years and took the good ship…backwards. Making the job more difficult and less inspiring for teachers doesn’t help student achievement; that’s what the righties did, yet you blame the teachers???

            • Gezza

               /  December 6, 2017

              I didn’t blame the teachers. I’m asking why you made it look like you did. But look, never mind, I’ve moved on because I’ve lost interest after seeing your response above.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  December 6, 2017

          The irony of using results of an international benchmark assessment to diss the benchmark assessments brought in by National seems to have escaped you.
          NS were not perfect, and were going to evolve over time. Having teachers who opposed on ideology and would not help make them work as well as they could didn’t help…

    • One test huh. Hardly empirical data mate

  3. phantom snowflake

     /  December 6, 2017

    Eminem: Trump diss. (Too contentious for General Chat)

    • Pickled Possum

       /  December 6, 2017

      Gee He’s angry with Trump he nearly lozt his voice with passion.

  4. sorethumb

     /  December 6, 2017

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 6, 2017

      Sheee it! Who’s that guy with the monotone voice? He lost me after 17 seconds …

      • PDB

         /  December 6, 2017

        • PartisanZ

           /  December 6, 2017

          If I was a Government PDB, you would be a thoroughly distracted Opposition.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 6, 2017

            I have noticed that when art galleries show videos in art exhibitions, the person speaking almost always has a droning, flat voice that makes the video maddening to listen to. One that I saw had a blindfolded person with a camera strapped to their chest crashing through long grass and such things while someone else gave them directions. What we saw was the view from the camera, and really, one lot of long grass looks much like another. The droning voice said go to the left, go straight ahead blah blah blah blah. It was impossible to ignore it as one tried to appreciate the rest of the exhibition/

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 6, 2017

              Well, ‘The Narcissism and Grandiosity of Celebrities’ sure as hell ain’t art Miss Kitty. It’s more like a neighbourly, odd and perhaps even pastime-level warm-up for an upcoming Hate Speech?

              Drone-Voice is berating celebrities for being in the public gaze …

              Hello!

              Old Laggard Tones is some kinda strange dude IMHO.

  5. Gezza

     /  December 6, 2017

    Kweschin Toime cumin up in 10 minits. Gonna go watch The Tevor Show & lissin to Symin Brijiz & Jacinda mangle tha Ing-glish lang-gwij. 😖

    • Gezza

       /  December 6, 2017

      Hmm. Much improved performance from Government Ministers today, I thought. Including Kelvin. Might be getting the hang of it. Opposition clearly frustrated with them, & with Trev, who continues to make me grin. Trev clearly frustrated with Simon Bridges & Steven Joyce. I reckon, if & when it happens, Simon will probably be the first one ordered from the Chamber.

      • Zedd

         /  December 6, 2017

        @gezza

        I watched Q-time.. but as with another recent issue, it seems that Natz. are more concerned about raising ridiculous/childish ‘points of order’ to waste time.. rather than actually get on with the job, they are being paid big salaries to perform !!
        It sounds like Bridges is spending all his waking hours, reading ‘standing orders/speakers rules’ just so he can ‘constantly annoy’ the speaker with trivial nonsense.

        Also it was interesting hearing Carter (prev. speaker) announcing that he for one, is glad they are NOT in coalition with NZF (spec. Winston); sounds like STILL in Denial.. what a Loser

        • Gezza

           /  December 7, 2017

          Yeah, I know Zed. They must’ve wasted about 20 minutes on petty points of order about their points of order. You could hear Trev audibly sighing each time Simon got up again. Hide like a rhino that bloke. Voice like a motor mower.

  6. robertguyton

     /  December 6, 2017

    They have evolved over time, from what seemed like a failed system to what has proved to be one. Under National, standards fell ! Blame the teachers? Really?? The National Government-now-Opposition couldn’t even improve things slightly in all the time they were in charge. Standards fell. They were told, loudly and clearly, what would happen and it did. Poor effort, National; your philosophy around education is faulted. Shoulda listened to the professionals!

    • Gezza

       /  December 6, 2017

      If you point out to me the National Government Ministers who either spent their term in a classroom teaching whose pupils did badly on assessment, or who were spending that time in the teachers colleges training the teachers whose pupils went on to badly on assessment, I might think your argument carried some weight. Sumpthink went badly wrong in the teaching profession about 40 years ago. My nephew is a talented science teacher who can talk science & illustrate science into the heads of his pupils & increases pass rates wherever he goes (currently in the USA). But when he writes anything he’s only semi-bloody-literate!

    • High Flying Duck

       /  December 6, 2017

      The professionals are saying the curriculum needs to change:

      Director for the Learning Staircase Ros Lugg told Rachel Smalley we need to adopt more structured learning methods – like other countries.

      “In the UK you teach certain patterns first things like your ‘th’ sound your ‘ai’ patterns and there’s a structured method of actually going through all of those different patterns which actually teach learners how language works.”

    • High Flying Duck

       /  December 6, 2017

      An Auckland teacher warns of a decline in new entrants’ oral language skills and blames falling reading skills on parents spending too much time on smartphones instead of reading to their kids.

      A teacher at decile-7 Three Kings School in Auckland, Jane Martin, said there was a noticeable decline in oral language in children starting school at 5.

      “Parents are not talking to kids like they used to,” she said.

      “You have parents sitting in silence on their cellphones, and the children all have phones at a younger age, so they are not so engaged in conversation. You have time-poor parents perhaps not reading to their children at night.”

      ….

      Other countries have evolved the curriculum – NZ has not as it is tied up with “holistic” learning.

      I have gone through it with my kids and were not impressed at the lack of focus on language and spelling skills in schools.

      ….

      Massey University literacy expert Professor Tom Nicholson noted that England’s reading performance had increased in every year since 2006, when it started teaching phonics – teaching how letters sound so that children can “decode” new words.

      He said most NZ teachers still used a “whole language” approach, encouraging children to work out a new word from its context.

  7. Zedd

     /  December 6, 2017

    I watched committee stage for the ‘maritime transport amendment’ bill.. The best the Natz could do was attack, an SOP that will change Mandatory Alcohol/drug testing to; targeted testing for crew who are suspected of being intoxicated on the job. The natz were fear-mongering saying the new Govt. are ‘going soft on drugs’ etc. saying it was like stopping road side breath-testing.. “How Ridiculous !” sez I

    A Lab. MP replied ‘we are not supporting Cheech & Chong captaining the ships’ & later a NZF MP said ‘we are not going to end up with every ship commanded by a bunch of drunken sailors under Capt. Jack Sparrow either !’ (paraphrased)

    If this is what they call ‘holding the new Govt. to account’ then maybe the Natz MPs should start looking for another job :/

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 6, 2017

      There are positions coming available soon on ‘Ready for Work’ Zedd …

  8. PartisanZ

     /  December 6, 2017

    Too many toys are bad for you children …

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11954293

    The scientific method and scope of this study is incredible! “Researchers at the University of Toledo in Ohio, US, recruited 36 toddlers and invited them to play in a room for half an hour, with either four toys, or 16 toys”.

    Science on the cheap!

    Without toys, another study found, our play becomes “far more creative and social” …

    • Gezza

       /  December 7, 2017

      Bloody hell, Parti 😮

      Please don’t tell me you’ve finally reached the point where in the pursuit of the perfect society you want to take kids’ toys off them? 😳