Open Forum – Thursday

7 December 2017

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25 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  December 7, 2017

    What a start to the week in UK politics.

    On Monday Theresa May went to Brussels for lunch with Jean Claude Juncker and the EU negotiators to discuss moving the Brexit negotiations to the next stage, the Trade talks. The EU have been adamant that the talks can’t progress unless ‘sufficient progress’ was made on the three points of EU citizen rights, the Brexit Bill, and the Irish Border.

    May has consistently said that EU citizen rights will be protected, despite spinning from the pro-EU lobby, a bill has been agreed to in principle, which left the Irish Border. Last week Donald Tusk, (EU President of something – they have so many I lose track of who is President of what), said that if Ireland are not happy with the proposals for the border issue then they can veto before it goes to the other EU member states, (more on that later, as that decision in itself is interesting).

    On Monday before the lunch had even been finished it was leaked that an agreement on the border had been agreed to which would include Northern Ireland having regulatory alignment with the EU, and remain in the Customs Union. It is believed the leak came from the Irish Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar. By the end of the lunch the alleged deal had been scuppered as the leader of Northern Ireland, Arlene Foster, came out and said that Northern Ireland would not agree to having different regulatory arrangements to the rest of the UK. On a side note, Nicola Sturgeon and Sadiq Khan took the opportunity to demand different regulatory arrangements for Scotland and London respectively – thereby suggesting a hard border between Scotland and England, and another hard border at the M25!

    Leo Varadkar has now accused the UK of backing out of a deal that had been agreed to, despite there being no evidence of any agreement being in place prior to May and Juncker appearing at the Press Conference after their lunch.

    This has put a lot of pressure on May as on one side of the argument MPs are saying she isn’t fit to negotiate a clean Brexit and will keep the UK in the EU in all but name, and on the other side they are saying that this debacle shows the complexity of Brexit and therefore the UK should just remain in the EU.

    Reports today have suggested (again) that Johnson and Gove are making a move against Theresa May, however, I don’t think they will make a move as long as they think there is a possibility that a Remain supporting MP will become leader.

    Also this week it was leaked that Theresa May is willing to agree that EU citizens in the UK can remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ – even if the UK itself no longer does.

    Reply
  2. Missy

     /  December 7, 2017

    As said above, the EU has passed the responsibility for agreeing (or not) to move on in Brexit talks to Ireland. This appears to have given the Irish Taoiseach a sense of importance as his rhetoric has grown more intransigent around Northern Ireland remaining in the Customs Union, however, all may not be as it seems, there are a number of theories on why the EU has done this, and on Varadkar’s rhetoric. The most commonly held views are:

    1. Varadkar has been ramping up his rhetoric for a domestic audience only. His Government is under pressure, losing support, and no longer appearing to have the confidence of his coalition partner. He has managed to avoid one vote of no confidence in his Government, but by none of his own actions, only because his deputy saw the writing on the wall and resigned. It is believed that Varadkar is doing his best to play to Sinn Fein voters in an effort to win them over in case he does end up having to call an early election.

    2. The new found respect the EU seems to have for Ireland is viewed with scepticism by many, not least because the EU have in the past shown nothing but contempt for Ireland and the Irish people. In 2001 & 2008 Ireland held referendums on two major treaties that formed part of the founding documents of the EU, in both cases the Irish people initially voted against the treaties, however, the EU put pressure on the Irish Government and they re-ran the referendum, it has been reported (and I was told by some Irish friends) that the Government then exerted pressure over the people in order to get them to vote in favour, it is believed there may have been some threats from the EU on Ireland as well (not proven). In 2011 the EU sent in representatives to take control of the Irish treasury over the heads of the Irish Government (including the Taoiseach), and they allegedly released a budget for Ireland without it going to cabinet first. It is believed that the EU may be using Ireland, and fragile Irish / British relations, in order to either create trouble between the two countries, or to be able to stand back and deflect the criticism for stalled talks away from Brussels and on to Dublin.

    Reply
    • David

       /  December 7, 2017

      Theresa May would have to be the worlds worst negotiator, she is a crap PM too. The EU will never give her a deal unless she threatens them and negotiates from a position of strength and given the UK has a 70 billion quid trade deficit she has a bit of leverage.
      Unless they roll her quickly and then stop bowing and scraping to Junker there will be a Corbyn government soon.

      Reply
      • Missy

         /  December 7, 2017

        Agree totally. Problem is that if she is rolled chances of a PM who will withdraw Article 50 or do a worse job than May is high.

        Maybe they need Arlene Foster (Leader of the DUP) in there to do the negotiations. She has twice refused to take a phone call from the PM, and has stated that the DUP will never agree to a deal that gives much away to the EU, especially on the Irish Border issue. May needs the DUP to get it passed in Parliament.

        Reply
  3. Missy

     /  December 7, 2017

    oops…. my two posts should have been in World Watch. 😳

    Reply
  4. The timing of the leak has never suggested to me that it was National at fault. If it was, it would have to be the election’s biggest own goal after Metiria Turei.
    Steven Joyce says he would have advised against leaking Winston Peters’ super details
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954349

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  December 7, 2017

      ‘he would say that…wouldn’t ..he’?

      Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  December 7, 2017

      Joyce should never have leaked Winston’s details – it was a bigger mistake even than the “hole” claim.

      [You should back up allegations with evidence, otherwise don’t make them. PG]

      Reply
  5. Missy

     /  December 7, 2017

    I saw a bit of chat on twitter this morning, (Weds night NZ time), that last night in Parliament the Government had to filibuster their own legislation because they were not prepared for the next bill on the order paper.

    I had a look but can’t see anything in the media, I did find this blog post:

    https://www.libertas.digital/blog/2017/12/6/labour-not-just-asleep-at-the-wheel-theyre-not-even-in-the-car

    This is incredible. What kind of Government is so incompetent they are unprepared for when their bills are due to come up on the order paper so have to filibuster their own bills in order to slow the process down. Not only filibuster but block motions to closure motions on their own bills as well. Incompetent doesn’t begin to cover it.

    Reply
    • Thanks for the link, that’s a blog I’ll be going back to 🙂

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  December 7, 2017

      Yes, they did – I had no internet so was watching the debates, but I missed some of the start. I wondered why an Opposition speaker referred to them filibustering, & it explains the apparent inanity & triviality of some of the government’s debate speeches.

      Reply
  6. lurcher19483

     /  December 7, 2017

    Dangerous/poor drinking water,Nationals lasting legacy for New Zealanders…enjoy

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 7, 2017

      I love my dangerous rain water, Lurch, untouched by socialist bureaucrat hands.

      Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  December 7, 2017

        Apparently almost all tank water has levels of ecoli in it. However few, if any, people ever get sick from it. Not sure what to take from that…

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 7, 2017

          We have a filter for cold drinking water and cooking and hot drink water gets boiled anyway. It’s a nothing problem for sensible folk.

          Reply
          • High Flying Duck

             /  December 7, 2017

            I think country / rural living folk also tend to have a natural level of resistance.
            Hard to believe so many towns can’t follow suit re the filtering and treatment.

            Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  December 7, 2017

      Not a Govt issue there Lurch – water supply is very much on the local councils.

      It was National who commissioned the drinking water report after Havelock North because they were worried council’s were abdicating their duty to provide core services.

      It seems they were entirely correct.

      Labour have already said they will not be helping Canterbury sort it’s drinking water issues as it is not a Government problem.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  December 7, 2017

        Water other than what nationals sold to china has gone down hill, wait for china to sell our own ??????? water back to us but with a national MP on the chinese board, as it is usually

        Reply
  7. PartisanZ

     /  December 7, 2017

    In the face of the neoliberal paradigm’s ‘welfare austerity’ and BECAUSE OF IT, it’s left to NGOs like Salvation Army to do genuine, in-depth analysis of the direct, ancillary and tangential outcomes and affects on people and their communities … many very damaging … and also investigate their concerns and, remarkably, their aspirations … Something I don’t recall any politician doing in a very very long time … Politicians simply assume.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11953538

    This is what’s called “evidence-informed”, which is apparently a good *progenerator of policy?

    * # 116

    Reply
  8. lurcher1948

     /  December 7, 2017

    Pupils leaving schools due to bullying under the National govt this sad denier blames it all on the labour govt, The Mason clinic kiwiblog posters have got to get into the sun, sad people

    Lance

    Our daughter went to a private school. The school was Christian based.
    The academic achievements were very high but of note was the cases of pupils who came there fleeing horrific bullying from other schools and would tell their stories, often in tears, of how it just didn’t happen anymore at their new school. Their description was pretty much ‘I was in hell, now I am alive again’.

    And these despicable lefties want to take choice away.
    Scumbags..LANCE..WTF THIS WAS UNDER bill english you stupid idiot its a new fresh non stupid world out there lance,

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 7, 2017

      Yes, Lurch. Expect Labour to enforce school zoning so kids have no choice, stop schools expelling or disciplining dangerous and violent pupils and make it impossible to remove poor principals and bad teachers – but it will pay them more. They will abolish all means of comparing performances of different schools and students and ensure that all students are taught the wonderful benefits of socialism and total reliance on a Labour Government.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  December 7, 2017

        Allan scoop up the doss and trash and take them all to vangard, GOOD LUCK with that

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 7, 2017

          I was bullied at school to an extent that it made my life a misery before the bullies turned their attention to another victim. This was at a ‘good’ school for girls.

          The boys in my mother’s family went to a school that was I forget how many centuries old-so old that the stone stairs were curved from hundreds of years of feet. There was a school ghost, a boy who was bullied into hanging himself hundreds of years ago.

          Good luck with stopping bullying. Has anyone read Tom Brown’s Schooldays ? The bullying in that was appalling-it was torture.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 7, 2017

            One thing that might not seem too bad but was humiliating at my first high school was that the bullies would climb up and look over the divisions between the loo cublcles-the victim was faced with either being afraid to ‘go’ or using the loo with a spiteful audience. Girls know how to bully girls without leaving a mark.

            Cyber-bullying is just a sophisticated version of the notes that were all we had .If it had existed, it would have been used.

            Reply
  9. phantom snowflake

     /  December 7, 2017

    Proof that Jacinda Ardern is an Alien Shapeshifter!! (4 minute clip, funny shit!)

    Reply

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