Open Forum – Wednesday

13 December 2017

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38 Comments

  1. Missy

     /  December 13, 2017

    I have noticed a bit of a conflict of ideas on Social Media within the ‘Westminster Bubble’ over the last few weeks.

    There has been an increase in activity promoting and pushing for Proportional Representation, something that many say will bring a stable and fairer Government to Britain. However, on the other hand many that have been pushing for PR have also been highly critical of the Confidence & Supply agreement between the Conservatives and DUP, specifically in relation to the extra 1.5 billion pounds going to Northern Ireland (many are saying it is for the DUP – idiots). Now, there is some things to be concerned about over the deal and there are things to not like about the DUP, but one thing these people seem to miss is that if they got their way and had PR then these kind of deals would be normal.

    This criticism of the deal has heated up in the last week with regards to the Brexit deal, especially as the DUP basically scuppered the original deal last Monday. The Government have been accused of letting a minority Government hold them to ransom in the deals, without realising that the system of Government they advocate for would make this more common not less.

    Interestingly they conveniently ignore anyone on social media who tries to point this out, they seem to be only interested in responding to those that agree with them.

  2. Corky

     /  December 13, 2017

    I’m a great fan of Milo Yiannopoulos. The problem is he gets distracted at events and plays to his audience. Yesterday the Whaler posted a clip of Milo speaking without interruption. He actually said something. He dealt to a smug Muslim women; an bearded snivelling Leftie type and one other malcontent. Pauline Hanson looked very pensive..don’t know why.

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/12/milo-speaks-australian-parliament/

    • lurcher19483

       /  December 13, 2017

      So you like a radical right wing gay who think sex with young boys is the way to go as long as he dost like Muslims??

      • Corky

         /  December 13, 2017

        ”So you like a radical right wing gay who think sex with young boys is the way to go.”

        You obviously haven’t seen the video, which is fine. He addressed that issue in the clip.

        I wont repeat his answer. Otherwise I may shatter your dream of catching out a perverted paedophile.

      • Corky

         /  December 13, 2017

        What do you think of those vicious feral Lefties in the above clip, Lurchy. Isn’t it meant to be white supremacists and Nazis who act like that? Apparently not. I’m not surprised because I meet the blog version of these ferals every day.

  3. lurcher19483

     /  December 13, 2017

    I see Barnaby Joyce the Australian MP dosnt like our PM Jacinda Adern.If you don’t know Barnaby he is a person who ISN’T proud to have New Zealand heritage and wants to kill toy dogs,the mans a mixed up ragtag in a failing govt and Jacinda keep pushing his buttons as the man has no shame.

  4. Trevors_elbow

     /  December 13, 2017

    Views on the appropriateness of this sentence anyone? LWOP in my view…. but interested to know if anyone agrees NPP if 17 years is sufficient….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11958585

  5. Gezza

     /  December 13, 2017

    Just under an hour to go until The Trevor Show, folks. At 2 pm. You might like to get your beer & monkey nuts or popcorn ready? National has had nearly a day to plan some new lines of attack on both Trev & the government, having pretty much bashed their previous ones into death from boredom.

    Should be good. But you never know. Steven sometimes gets as stuck in the same pointless supplementary question groove as Andy, Grant, & Phil used to. Plenty of scope for the smart players to come up with a clever new line attack or two, though, hopefully.

    • Gezza

       /  December 13, 2017

      10 minutes to go folks.
      My prediction is that Trev will be the winner.
      13.50

  6. Gezza

     /  December 13, 2017

    YNZ POSTER SURVEY

    In your opinion, if National’s legislation to reduce taxes for some people next year is repealed, & the rate of income tax you pay from 1 April 2018 therefore remains exactly the same as your income tax rate for the current financial year – has the government increased your tax rate from April Fools Day next year?*

    Yes – uptick.
    Please explain your tortured reasoning in comments.

    No – Downtick.

    *NB: The correct answer to this survey question is already known.This is an IQ test.

  7. robertguyton

     /  December 13, 2017

    Well! Jacinda Ardern certainl;y thrashed Bill English around during the first question in the House today! Adroit, clear and dismissive of ol’ whingy Bill.

    • Corky

       /  December 13, 2017

      You can’t win them all, Robert. You have to take your lumps when they are dished out. Jacinda is no slug…although she will be driven to a snails pace looking after her incompetent ministers

      • robertguyton

         /  December 13, 2017

        Her ministers are looking very competent today, Corky, you’ll be pleased to hear!

  8. robertguyton

     /  December 13, 2017

    Chris Hipkins had a field day! Trev’s doing very well, as expected. Grant Robertson’s sounding confident and as though he’s enjoying himself. Steven Joyce is speaking in a “condescending” manner, according to the Speaker.

  9. robertguyton

     /  December 13, 2017

    Ron Mark’s now describing National’s massive cost over-run regarding the frigate and in the process, thrashing Gerry Broiwnlee and making the past Government look incompetent. You watching, Corky?

  10. robertguyton

     /  December 13, 2017

    We’ve found fiscal holes left behind by the previous Government. They were “asleep at the helm”. Oh dear, National; a day of thrashings in the House.
    Now it’s Niki Kaye’s turn. Defending the awful “National Standards” issue is a dead end play. Give it up, Niki, it’s gone!
    “We did listen to the public, It was called the General Election!
    God! Now she’s citing a Stuff poll!
    He slayed her for that as well!

  11. robertguyton

     /  December 13, 2017

    The Opposition look green about the gills.

    • Gezza

       /  December 13, 2017

      Yep. Government Ministers never even raised a sweat. Very confident & articulate today. Swatted the Opposition’s Questions away every time. Poor Nikki got really flipped the bird by Chris. Corky will no doubt be pleased to hear that I made a prediction that Trev would be the QT winner today & he absolutely was. Very little disruption, the class was easily managed, & I think only two supplementaries were lost, both by the opposition, who seem to be learning skowly & responding at last to a firm hand from The Speaker.

      I do think however that the Opposition is holding its own in the General Debate.

  12. lurcher1948

     /  December 13, 2017

    David Farrar nationals attack poodle supports an australian politician over his NEW ZEALAND PM, could you see australian attack poodle backing a NEW ZEALANDER over a australian PM.Is farrar getting an advantage or something to bag the PM Jacinda Adern,losing hurts dosnt it farrar HAHAHA,
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/12/joyce_tells_ardern_to_butt_out.html
    read the nastiness,but then its the losing right

  13. PartisanZ

     /  December 13, 2017

    Latest headlines in te Herald – ‘Legislation to ban foreigners from buying existing homes will be introduced tomorrow’ – http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11958974

    “Purchases of homes by offshore speculators push first home buyers and families out of the housing market,” Twyford said.

    This depends on what proportion of buyers are foreigners?

    Gareth Morgan (among others) doesn’t think it will work.

    “Why? Maybe foreign buyers aren’t the real problem, or maybe they can find a way around the [new] regulations … Entrepreneurs out there will create businesses that set up legal NZ entities to purchase residential housing … each one funded by raising debt finance from a foreigner. This should nicely circumvent … Labour’s attempt to remove foreigners from the residential property market … business as usual will be restored.

    Regardless, banning foreign buyers doesn’t deal with the real issue. The last two Tax Working Groups identified the fundamental issue with housing, and TOP promoted their advice as our flagship policy. There is a hole in the income tax regime that makes it rational for us all to invest as much as we can into owner occupied housing. Investors, foreign or domestic, know this and throw all their money into housing … knowing you and I will keep buying houses.

    Why should the annual benefit from owning a bank deposit or a business be taxed, while the annual benefit from owning & occupying a house is not?”

    http://www.top.org.nz/foreign_buyers_the_villain_populist_policy_needs

    • Blazer

       /  December 13, 2017

      it is one measure that will help.The extension of the brightline test will..help.Changing the tax advantages in treating property as a favoured asset class will..help,taxing landbankers will..help…building more state houses will…help…in short, alot of measures together will stymie the ludicrous destruction of what should be a Kiwi right…home ownership.

  14. sorethumb

     /  December 13, 2017

    Kymlicka holds, currently, the Canada Research Chair in Political Philosophy at Queen’s University in Kingston. Best known for the elaboration of a liberal theory of minority rights, with particular reference to Canada, he has been tremendously effective in this endeavour. Since the mid-1980s when he was a grad student, he has received, every single year without interruption, highly lucrative grants and awards, including the Premier’s Discovery Award in 2009 ($250,000), the Trudeau Foundation Fellowship in 2005-2008 ($225,000), and the Killam Prize in Social Sciences in 2004 ($100,000). He has held visiting professorships and fellowships outside Canada every year since coming to Kingston in 1998. Around the world his books have been accepted as part of the official consensus on multiculturalism in Canada, translated into 32 languages. While portraying himself as an outsider fighting the dominant Eurocentric discourse, he is best viewed as Canada’s government-sanctioned ideologue of multicultural citizenship.
    …………
    The vast majority of Canadians would never have endorsed policies that target them as oppressors to be dispossessed if the ultimate intentions of this ideology were presented to them by critics with equal access to the public space and without fear of demonization and loss of livelihood. Kymlicka only offers idealized versions of an imagined future. (28), but in between the lines one can detect the mind of someone intent on destroying Canada’s Christian European heritage. He muses over the fact that “many state symbols such as flags, anthems, and mottoes reflect a particular ethnic or religious background” and that it would only be fair for other ethnic groups to demand “that their identity be given the same recognition as the original Anglo-Saxon settlers” (1995: 115). As a possible solution he proposes “redesigning public holidays, uniforms, and state symbols. It is “easy,” he says, to “replace religious oaths with secular ones, and so we should.” It would be “more difficult but perhaps not impossible, to replace existing public holidays and work-weeks with more neutral schedules for schools and government offices”. In other words, he is anticipating a point in Canada’s history when the entire “societal culture” will be neutered and neutralized away from any Eurocentric characteristic. In this vein, he endorses as well the rewriting of Canada’s history in order to give an equal voice to diverse ethnicities in the making of Canada.

    “Never again,” Kymlicka demands, should Canada be viewed as a “white country … as a British country.” (29) Today, one in five Canadians is foreign-born, and Kymlicka is still encouraging more immigration and diversity. Major newspapers, academic and corporate elites alike, are calling for a doubling of Canada’s intake of immigrants from 250,000 to 500,000, with the goal of raising the population from 35 to 100 million by the end of the century. Kymlicka and liberal elites generally believe that immigrant multiculturalism is the final stage in the march towards racial equality. This equality is obviously illusionary. White-created nations are the only ones experimenting with this ideology. What is not illusionary is that Canada is steadily becoming a nation overwhelmed by diverse cultures.

    http://www.quarterly-review.org/will-kymlicka-and-the-disappearing-dominion/

    • sorethumb

       /  December 13, 2017

      The same is happening here and if you question it you are racist /xenophobic/ white supremacist.

      • Blazer

         /  December 13, 2017

        if the cap fits…wear it with pride…

        • sorethumb

           /  December 13, 2017

          “Kymlicka often asserts that “most people have a very strong bond to their own culture” (1995: 8, 84). This is possibly the most important unexamined assumption in Kymlicka’s theory. He clearly means that forcing immigrants to “shed their distinctive heritage and assimilate entirely to the existing cultural norms” would amount to the suppression of “a very strong” disposition “in the human condition” (1995: 90). Under the “Anglo-conformity model” this inclination among non-Anglos was suppressed, and some immigrants were not allowed entry into Canada because they were seen as “unassimilable.” Under multiculturalism this inclination among immigrants for their own culture should be allowed and celebrated. European Canadians should make multiculturalism an intrinsic part of their culture so minorities feel respected. Kymlicka is unmindful of the obvious implication that this amounts to a call upon native European Canadians to renounce their own “very strong bonds”

          He solemnly writes: “If a culture is not generally respected, then the dignity and self-respect of its members will also be threatened” (1995: 89). But whenever Kymlicka identifies the English/Europeans by history and culture, it is scornfully as “colonizers,” “racists”, and “conquerors”. The only thing European Canadians are allowed to celebrate is multiculturalism. Not a single positive word can be found in Kymlicka’s writings about the settlers who founded Canada. The words “pride,” “cultural particularity,” and “culturally meaningful lives” are reserved exclusively for ethnic immigrant groups. He unambiguously says that multiculturalism cannot succeed as long as “native born [ethnic European] citizens with a strong sense of national identity or national pride” (6) are allowed a voice in the public arena, regularly labelling those who disagree with mass immigration as “xenophobic,” “manifestly unjust,” and “intolerant”..”

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 13, 2017

            @sorethumb – “White-created nations are the only ones experimenting with this ideology. What is not illusionary is that Canada is steadily becoming a nation overwhelmed by diverse cultures”

            WTF! Firstly, Canada was a cluster of Native American nations who were conquered/colonized by two White European nations. So it is Native American nations overwhelmed by a kind of bicultural monoculture (French, English), which, secondly, is becoming multicultural in the process of post-colonialism and, importantly, because of having bought into the neoliberal ideology and practice of globalization.

            Multiculturalism & Globalization come hand-in-hand. Something perhaps Ludwig, Murray, Milton & Co might have thought about before forcsting* so-called ‘free market’ globalization upon the world, initially by force of military coup in Pinochet’s Chile …

            The settlers didn’t ‘found’ Canada, any more than Europeans ‘discovered’ it … they stole it …

            *forcsting = forcing + foisting – new word #118 (I think)

            • sorethumb

               /  December 13, 2017

              I think people understand that Canada means modern Canada.
              …….
              Multiculturalism & Globalization come hand-in-hand.
              So how do you explain the fact that we have “sending” and “receiving” countries? China has only let 1448 people become citizens.

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 14, 2017

              Ummm … I’ll have a go …. We want to use their sweatshop ‘sending’ economies to cheaply manufacture our baubles, trinkets and gadgets, maintaining the neoliberal economic lie by replacing our own labour [employment] with theirs – making ours a relative low-wage ‘service’ economy as well – and ‘receiving’ ‘them’ is the inevitable payoff?

              We dealt them all the good cards. Consequently, complaining as if its their fault, or the fault of some Left-Wing conspiracy group within capitalism undertaking a ‘long march through institutions’, is the action of a spiteful, ignorant, hypocritical ninny …

              We’re getting precisely what WE asked for ….

              Their NOT receiving immigrants in exchange for ‘sending’ us cheap’n’nasty goodies is a measure of their wisdom and our stupidity … cupidity … duplicity (with our own people) … you name it … ?

  15. sorethumb

     /  December 13, 2017

    WHAT YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO ISN’T “SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED”
    https://areomagazine.com/2017/04/10/what-youre-attracted-to-isnt-socially-constructed/

  16. PartisanZ

     /  December 13, 2017

    “The real problem, of course, is an economic one. We’ve figured out how to reduce the amount of work required to produce everything we need and realistically want, but we haven’t figured out how to distribute those resources except through wages earned from the 40-hour (or more) workweek.”

    http://evonomics.com/less-work-job-creation-peter-gray/

    I’ll post more from this important article in future …

  17. sorethumb

     /  December 14, 2017

    Enoch Powell: St. George’s Day Speech
    https://alterorbisworld.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/enoch-powell-st-georges-day-speech/

    Now find an equivalent speech about multicultural UK?

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 14, 2017

      OM … f%ing G … who could be bovered?

      Yesterday’s (1961) ‘News’ (opinion) appropriately posted in yesterday’s open forum …?

      Thanks for the foul memories …