Open Forum – Saturday

16 December 2017

Forum

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40 Comments

  1. robertguyton

     /  December 16, 2017

    “National’s Jami Lee-Ross is this week’s doofus of the week. He earned this prize after putting on a huge hissy fit in Parliament after his lunch hour was delayed by 5 minutes. Refusing to accept Jacinda Ardern’s hope for a bi partisan effort to address child poverty is bad enough, trying to stonewall the enacting bill’s passage through the house was even worse, but throwing a temper tantrum because your lunch hour has been slightly delayed takes the cake.”
    Seen the video yet?
    Inspirational from National.

    • Gezza

       /  December 16, 2017

      Nope. Haven’t seen the video. Got a link?

    • Corky

       /  December 16, 2017

      They are Tories, Robert. They are finding it hard adjusting to the opposition benches. They know they will back to their RIGHTFUL place of leading New Zealand soon, They realise this three year hiatus will do them good. But sour medicine will always be sour medicine. Enjoy your time in the sun, it will be fleeting.

  2. Blazer

     /  December 16, 2017

    Lee-Ross has decided to step out of the wallpaper…..lets hope he steps..back in,if this is all he has.

  3. robertguyton

     /  December 16, 2017

    National: hiding the climate change report from the public.

    “A report withheld by the previous Government shows New Zealand does not have a coordinated plan to address the effects of climate change.

    It found there was “limited evidence” that New Zealand had been proactively adapting to the threat of climate change, and many sectors had been trying to adapt on their own within a mismatched framework of policies and legislation.

    New Zealand had a lot of information about how the climate was changing, but “unlike many countries,” did not have a coordinated plan. The report’s authors “found no evidence that climate change risks to New Zealand have been reduced by the actions taken by central government.”

  4. PartisanZ

     /  December 16, 2017

    “Schools were invented largely to teach us to obey authority figures (bosses) unquestioningly and perform tedious tasks in a timely manner. In other words, they were invented to suppress our natural tendencies to explore and play and prepare us to accept a life of work.

    In a world that valued play rather than work, we would have no need for such schools. Instead, we would allow each person’s playfulness, creativity, and natural strivings to find meaning in life to blossom.”

    http://evonomics.com/less-work-job-creation-peter-gray/

    • Blazer

       /  December 16, 2017

      Fantastic article PartisanZ…everyone should take the time to…read it!

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 16, 2017

        Its the way of the future Blazer … if we are to have a future …

        • Gezza

           /  December 16, 2017

          Whatever schools may have been invented for, NZ schooling never suppressed my creativity or playfulness. And imo they don’t suppress anyone else’s. And there have always been options for future learning at any time if you want to take them.

        • PDB

           /  December 16, 2017

          PZ: “Its the way of the future Blazer …”

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 16, 2017

            Is this what you’d do PDB?

            I’ll bet money your answer is an emphatic “No”, Right?

            So why do you think it’s what other people would do? And which others do you mean exactly? The overweight? Only lazy poor people? Bloody Maoris? Indolent bene bludgers? White trash? People who’ve been made redundant by automation? Specific immigrant minorities? Muslims?

            Gezza the school paragraph was an enticement to read the essay …

            What did you think of Gray’s essay?

        • Gezza

           /  December 16, 2017

          I only quickly scanned it. Thought it interesting, but maybe a bit simplistic, like his reference to schooling – & that he sounds something of an idealistic dreamer, Parti.

          We’e a long way yet from having the kind of society & flexible, do-what-you-like, when-you-like schooling & working arrangements that he’s talking about, imo. Although that may well work for some whose skills & interests are in high demand & pay extremely well. The fact is demand for some people’s talents or formal higher learning or technical expertise is alwsys going to be higher than others.

          People being human beings,& human beings being what they are, there’ll never be complete equality. What satisfies one person, how useful or popular what they want to do for their life’s work is, how much is enough, who’s a leader, follower, individualist, etc. These things will always operate to make a society unequal to some extent.

          Trying to force equality on everyone doesn’t work. Not for long. When I read opinion pieces like this article, I always try to imagine them trying their system out in China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. Because unless it applies globally it won’t work, imo. Other countries & cultures will outcompete a society like this.

          I’ve added it to my Browser’s reading list for a more thorough read later though.

    • PDB

       /  December 16, 2017

      “In a world that valued play rather than work, we would have no need for such schools.”

      Written by a guy who works for a living! Hilarious! This comment on the article sums the hypocrisy up well;

      “In it he tells us what his job is, a couple of the main works he’s published, and something about the work he’s still engaged in. But the blurb tells us nothing about what he likes to do for play. If work is so awful and play so wonderful, why does the person telling us this define his own public identity in terms of his work rather than his play?

      For well over a century anti-work hypocrites have preached about how work is terrible and the masses want less of it at the same time that they value their own work and throw themselves into it with enthusiasm. Clearly their sermons are wrong.”

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 16, 2017

        Personally I find creating things and solving problems rewarding and pleasurable. I can’t imagine anything worse than having nothing to do and being bored. The worst thing teachers can do is underestimate the intelligence and capabilities of their pupils. Probably the same goes for employers and their staff.

        • Blazer

           /  December 16, 2017

          yes ,but the Herald crossword…doesn’t really…count.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 16, 2017

        @PDB – “Written by a guy who works for a living! Hilarious”

        What’s funny? Your old and exceedingly tired, intellectually lazy, if not primative* or indeed puerile “these Greenies flew here in aeroplanes. They drove their private cars to this climate change conference” argument?

        The accusation “You’re incapable of living by your own ethics” from an opponent who doesn’t have any ethics? If they did, they wouldn’t make the accusation.

        You, metaphorically speaking, and your kind, have made it impossible for people to live by their own ethics and you attempt to make it impossible to critique, challenge or change anything because of your lack of any discernible ethics.

        This is what Righties call ‘winning’ …

        Aside from their overriding profit motive as businesses, I’m happy that flying, catching buses or carpooling are all forms of vehicular sharing. And sometimes it isn’t possible. Similarly, we are stuck with a world ruled by money, including money’s definition of work. So both surviving and attempting to change this system is technically ‘work’ …

        You describe a world without critical thinking, and use critical thinking to describe it …

        • PDB

           /  December 16, 2017

          You could have made your post much smaller and more readable by just saying: “I don’t like what you say PDB and rather than put up a cohesive argument I can’t so I will instead attack you personally and generalise by putting you into a group called “your kind” (whatever that may be).

          You miss the point entirely that a guy writing about ‘play’ instead of ‘work’ doesn’t mention anything but his ‘work’ in his résumé, no doubt in order to pick up more ‘work’ for himself.

          You need to up your game – hiding behind mountains of unnecessary words to make up for a lack of decent argument is what’s getting ‘old’.

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 16, 2017

            So you think I attack you because you don’t like what I’m saying …

            And you attack not what I’m saying but my ‘style’ of saying it …

            I didn’t miss the point. The point is irrelevant to the content of his essay.

            You describe a world without critical thinking, and use, at best, quasi-critical thinking to circumscribe it …

            • PartisanZ

               /  December 16, 2017

              Should read, “Your point is irrelevant to the content of his essay”.

              Milton Friedman taught economics. Does that mean he can’t comment on economics?

  5. Gezza

     /  December 16, 2017

    LIST OF JACINDAWORDS

    Sumpthink
    Anythink
    Pryorridees
    Povidy
    Ineekwolidee

    Feel free to add any more you’ve heard.

    • Blazer

       /  December 16, 2017

      so long as Nu Zilders understand…thats all that..matters.

    • Gezza

       /  December 16, 2017

      Thanks for that. She also says
      Newzilindiz

      • Blazer

         /  December 16, 2017

        who else would you like under the microscope…pick any politician…

    • Gezza

       /  December 16, 2017

      Wycaddo (where she comes from)
      Universidy (where she god her digree)

  6. lurcher1948

     /  December 16, 2017

    Some new immigrants could be abusing fellow workers in their native tongue, poor dears don’t point out the obvious,as they could think its racist(SIGH), you are in your new home New Zealand so speak english,just saying…
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/99924326/english-only-sign-for-staff-in-bay-of-plenty-supermarket

    • phantom snowflake

       /  December 16, 2017

      Foodstuffs are happy to employ/use heaps of immigrants at minimum wage, but they need to know their place; they haven’t earned the right to use their own languages. Also, let’s suppress Te Reo Maori just like in the bad old days; official language? Fiddlesticks!

      • Gezza

         /  December 16, 2017

        Immigrants in the workplace & out and about? Unless you’re working in say the tour guide area & there aren’t enuf kiwis who can speak the relevant foreign language & be understood – speak English and/or Maori (or sign language if deaf), or be learning them. It’s worked for generations of immigrants whose first language wasn’t English. Otherwise go home.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 16, 2017

          In a supermarket, the lingua franca is English in NZ-even if American usages are corrupting it more and more. I wouldn’t read too much into this sign. It’s hard to imagine that people are always being abusive when they use their own language and that this is the reason for it.

          One does tend to forget and use one’s own language to another speaker of this, as anyone who has lived in another country will know !

          I find it hard to imagine objecting to people using it in private conversations, like those on buses.

          If Maori as a language had been suppressed, wouldn’t it have died out ?

          I have some old school exercises, one lot found in an old book is dated 1917. One side is devoted to a list of Maori words and phrases and their English translation-I think that the other is from the 60s or earlier and is something similar..

          • Blazer

             /  December 16, 2017

            this is hardly…English..’ lingua franca’.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 16, 2017

              I said that English was THE lingua franca, not that lingua franca was English-which it obviously is not. Google ‘lingua franca’.

            • Blazer

               /  December 16, 2017

              ‘ the lingua franca is English in NZ-‘