Open Forum – Tuesday

19 December 2017


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  1. David

     /  December 19, 2017

    Yesterday was one of bitter dissapointment for me personally. After reeling from the news that there was absolutely no money for the Dunedin hospital Labour have promised and promised I then learn that the zero carbon economy promised to me by the Greens and endorsed by Labour wont happen either, we get a committee that will report back in 11 months !
    I worry for the people of Christchurch who were promised a stadium and sports facility will be the next lot to have remorse over their vote.
    Still on the bright side lawyers, doctors, dentists and accountants will have very little student debt, we will have a billion trees and 100,000 new houses…sometime.

    • PDB

       /  December 19, 2017

      Technically no ‘fiscal hole’, instead lets just have a big spend up of all the money created by the previous National govt & borrow some more to throw away. Now they can’t afford a hospital as promised and I’m sure the public service is loving the fact there is virtually no money for pay increases in the next few years as well.

      Not to worry though as the new govt implements a regional fuel tax that hits the poorest families the worst (where’s Zedd to complain about this?) so that Auckland Council can continue to waste ratepayers money & not actually be forced into reducing their spiraling costs.

      And what about stopping foreign buyers with that nifty bit of wordplay by Labour? Aussies are exempt as now are Singaporeans – who next?

      And what about the left saying banning foreign owners will fix the housing market (come in Blazer!)?

      Herald: “Trade Minister David Parker has said he does not expect a huge impact on housing prices, but the principle that buying New Zealand homes was a privilege was an important one.”

      So much for that then, though Ardern is trying to sell a different story with a bit of ‘hope’: “She said she hoped the move would take some “heat” out of the housing market.”

      You know what hope did? They formed a committee…must be due for another one as it’s at least a day since the new govt did so…..

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 19, 2017

        I never expected them to be any different from National. Governments are economic puppets nowadays, mere “managers on-behalf”. Governments aren’t answerable to the people any more …

        What’s different from National’s Tax Working Group, Welfare Working Group, Constitutional Advisory Panel et al ad infinitum …

        I’m actually keenly awaiting Labour’s version of a Flag Debate … something to distract the populace … What will it be? Already the possibility of cannabis law reform is a shriveling carrot on a stick …

        Unless their ‘Child Poverty’ action is the big one? In which case it surpasses National’s Flag Distraction by a dusty gravel road country mile.

        And to their credit, they haven’t used the “Oh, sorry, we got a phone call from Treasury” post-election-crisis false flag again – have they? – as they did in 1984 and National did in 1990.

        The housing & property speculation BULLSHIT in this country has been going on as long as there’s been a country, greatly exacerbated by the FIIRE economy presided over by successive National & Labour governments … I’d like to see any mortal human being turn that around overnight …

        • Gezza

           /  December 19, 2017

          I can’t think of any major change to a system of governance that’s ever happened overnight or in a very short space of time that didn’t involve a violent revolution, or a military or political coup, or a country being attacked. And there are usually huge downsides to all of those in terms of loss of life, liberty & freedom for the population.

          And even when these occur it’s usually been a situation that’s been years in the making.

          Even Trump hasn’t managed to successfully pull off what amounted to a complete political coup yet.

          Our economy & our society are too complex for any party to change radically without taking at least a majority of the people with them. That’s what saw the Lange/Douglas/Palmer Government rejected. And every succeeding government that’s eventually been dumped since, including National’s last coalition.

          That’s the reason why most have moved to the centre. In my view the key to advancing change to government is having sound policy & being able to persuade enough voters it will make an improvement to society in general that doesn’t take away anything someone’s aleady got, often involving years of hard work & sacrifice.

          Or being able to persuade enuf voters that the government you’ve currently got is not working in everyone’s best interests, including theirs. Which is how we ended up with a Labour/NZF/Green coalition. Which I’m still evaluating.

      • Blazer

         /  December 19, 2017

        Love to know how the previous Government ‘created ‘…money. They borrowed over 100bil from the ex P.M’s…frat.

      • Blazer

         /  December 19, 2017

        Brightline extension to 5 years will help. A number of measures. ..required. Can’t happen overnight. Key had a 4 point plan in 2007…10 years ago the. .fake.

      • robertguyton

         /  December 19, 2017

        “Technically no ‘fiscal hole’”
        Joyce was lying then?

    • Ray

       /  December 19, 2017

      Rather than the university students getting a free ride it is the landlords who have lifted the rents by the exact extra amount the students are to get.
      Talk about unintended consequences

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 19, 2017

        I have heard that ! They should have seen it coming,

      • lurcher1948

         /  December 19, 2017

        Fat cat National MPs and VOTERS upping the rent for their slum flats, NATIONAL PARTY no surprises there

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 19, 2017

          I doubt if students are living in slums. Or that all student flats are owned by National MPs.

  2. sorethumb

     /  December 19, 2017

    The housing & property speculation BULLSHIT in this country has been going on as long as there’s been a country
    Not really. I recall a conversation where someone was scathing of someone who bought a house just to do it up and sell it. It was an attitude that that was crass; an attitude that placed neighbourhood and those around you above (just about) everything else.

    It was in the 1980’s that bob jones and co started writing and book shops had 2 square meters devoted to property.

    • PartisanZ

       /  December 19, 2017

      Nah … the 1980s might have been when the growth curve in property speculation turned exponential, but I can remember a relative of mine talking openly about giving up his lucrative career to “do up and sell” houses around Auckland in the early-mid 1970s because other people he knew were already doing it.

      New Zealand (sans Aotearoa) is first ‘discovered’ by Europeans, then a nation founded on property speculation. Its little more than a giant real estate agency. People talk about their feeling and affinity for “the land” yet they buy and sell it like any “article of use”, pulling up imaginary roots when the right profit comes along. Property in the soil? To speak here of ‘property’ as one does baubles, trinkets and gadgets is to renounce thought.

      Half or more the Treaty Settlements are about land fraudulently acquired, stolen or illegally confiscated from Maori so it could be sold to settlers for massive, sometimes heinous profits.

      Why do you think we resist any form of property tax so vehemently? Capital gains is embedded in our DNA, and ‘Capital Gains Tax’ is feared like the Boogie Man come to steal our very souls! It’s not. That Boogie Man is actually a surgeon come to remove both benign and malignant cancers …

  3. sorethumb

     /  December 19, 2017

    then learn that the zero carbon economy promised to me by the Greens and endorsed by Labour wont happen either, we get a committee that will report back in 11 months !
    In her increasingly rare spare time, Ghahraman likes to travel with her partner, comedian Guy Williams. She also likes to host dinner parties, despite confessing to being a bad cook.

    Unless you are like the Amish, we require fossil fuels for our larger population as much of what we do is frivilous. Frivilous in the sense of not basic to our needs but necessary as only close blood ties (love) causes people to part with their money for no reward.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 19, 2017

      The Amish don’t drive cars, but I would think that it would be impossible to not use fossil fuels at all, even if someone isn’t frivolous.

      If I only parted with my money to those with blood ties, I wouldn’t be parting with any. I give some quite large donations to charity like Unicef, Fred Hollows and Medecins Sans Frontieres and don’t expect a reward for this.

  4. Kitty Catkin

     /  December 19, 2017

    Has anyone read Martin Chuzzlewit (Dickens) ? He depicts a form of sexual harassment that would sound like nothing much if the girl described it. The ghastly Mr Pecksniff is a dirty old man who doesn’t actually DO much-but it’s the way that he does it that is repulsive. It’s brilliantly depicted. He also shows a character in The Old Curiosity Shop who knows how to make a young girl feel really uncomfortable without actually doing much or saying anything that would sound like much if repeated. . Dickens really knew human nature.