Open Forum – Wednesday

20 December 2017

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site will have to keep going through moderation due to abuses by a small number of malicious people.

34 Comments

  1. robertguyton

     /  December 20, 2017

    The National Party responsible for the destruction of our kauri forests:

    “The Herald has another story about the abuse of the OIA, this time at MPI. Forest & Bird requested information from MPI on its handling of Kauri dieback. MPI dragged its feet, and extended the timeframe into the never-never. The Ombudsman has now ruled their extension was unlawful – and oddly, the information was released immediately, suggesting that the delay was political rather than practical:
    The Ombudsman has asked the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) to apologise to Forest and Bird after the group waited for months to receive information it had requested about kauri dieback management.

    The group has accused MPI of sitting on the documents, which were released one day after Ombudsman Leo Donnelly responded to its complaint over the four-month delay.

    However, MPI insists it released the information “immediately after it was ready”.

    So why didn’t MPI want to release the information? The request was prompted by several reports of how the response to Kauri dieback was mismanaged, so there’s an obvious reason there. And if you’re in any doubt, there’s a piece in New Zealand Geographic about both Kauri dieback and the MPI response, which ought to dispel any doubts. Its very clear from it that MPI has simply not bothered to fund the basic science into this disease. It seems that it thinks its biosecurity responsibilities only extend to subsidising commercial industry, not in protecting our iconic species from extinction.”

  2. PartisanZ

     /  December 20, 2017

    “When inequality is high and strips large numbers of men of the usual markers of status – like a good job and the ability to support a family – matters of respect and disrespect loom disproportionately.

    Inequality predicts homicide rates “better than any other variable”, says Martin Daly, professor emeritus of psychology and neuroscience at McMaster University in Ontario …

    This includes factors like rates of gun ownership (which also rise when inequality does) and cultural traits like placing more emphasis on “honor” (this, too, turns out to be linked with inequality). “About 60 [academic] papers show that a very common result of greater inequality is more violence …

    For both evolutionary and cultural reasons, social status is most highly contested during adolescence and early adulthood, because high rank is frequently associated with sexual attractiveness.”

    http://evonomics.com/inequality-predicts-homicide-rates-better-variable/

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 20, 2017

      That is America, not here. Our homicide rate per capita is a fraction of theirs.

      • PartisanZ

         /  December 20, 2017

        The writer refers to other countries too Miss Kitty. It’s about inequality being “better than any other variable” in predicting homocide. The writer also refers to other violent crimes and burglary, for which inequality is also a good determinant …

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 20, 2017

          It doesn’t mention NZ.

          In Victorian England, while there was violent crime* (but then, as now, the press sensationalised it to make it seem worse than it was and make people feel unsafe) it wasn’t as high as it is now-but it was a very ‘unequal’ society.

          * and plenty of dishonest offences. But as a rule, burglars were not armed-it was, I think, a lesser offence.

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 20, 2017

            Victorian England is a perfect example of inequality being the principal determinant of murder, violence and thieving Miss Kitty! Thank you.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 21, 2017

              It’s the opposite, actually, there were not that many murders per capita, but the press made the most of the ones that there were-as they do now. It was not even remotely like c.21 USA,

  3. PartisanZ

     /  December 20, 2017

    ” … the Patriotic Millionaires. The website describes members as “traitors to their class”, and then elaborates: “Patriotic Millionaires are high-net-worth Americans, business leaders, and investors who are united in their concern about the destabilizing concentration of wealth and power in America.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/16/coming-out-as-wealthy-inequality-progressives

  4. robertguyton

     /  December 20, 2017

    “The National Party itself is now wedded and compromised personally to wealthy Chinese interests. Jenny Shipley, Don Brash, Ruth Richardson and Chris Tremain are Director’s of the China Construction Bank, Judith Collins interaction with Chinese Officials to help her husbands Chinese Company, Oravida, to gain more Chinese money and Maurice Williamson’s love affair with Donghua Liu saw him become Liu’s personal handyman when doing up Liu’s batch and heavying the Police to drop domestic violence charges.
    The National Government are as dependent on their Chinese friends as the entire property speculating middle class have now become and that’s why National are still over 44% in the polls.
    What was most astounding is that 44% of NZ still voted for National despite a Chinese Spy being outed as a senior member of the National Party.”
    Ed (TS)

    • Hilarious. Talk about adding 2 + 2 and coming up with conspiracy. Reds under the bed is soo 1950s.

      What is it you guys hate about China? In my day many of my comrades were devout Maoists.

      • Can you put your Standard link first so I don’t sully my tender brain by unknowingly reading any propaganda from there please.

      • Blazer

         /  December 20, 2017

        These agents are a bit. .’swift ‘.

          • Blazer, I’ve got to wish you and yours a very merry Xmas. You’re quite a joker and light-hearted compared to some of the staunch Presbutton types on here.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 20, 2017

              It’s been ages since I heard anyone say that-or Pressed Beef (I found this in the Pressed Beef opshop)

              I was brought up to call Catholics Micks or Mickey Doolans. It was a long time before I realised that this was not the universal name for them.

      • robertguyton

         /  December 20, 2017

        Us guys? Hate China?
        ?
        There certainly is a strong “alliance” between many National Party MP/ex MPs and Chinese “interests” isn’t there! And the whole “Chinese spy trainer Nat MP” is certainly concerning, don’t you think? Not prudent, in my view, to have someone who failed to declare such an important detail. Worse than Metiria Turei, aye, yet National and her defenders (you, for example) croon, “nothing to see here”. Really odd.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 20, 2017

        Traveller, did you ever have The Little Red Book ? It was actually quite dull, but nobody admitted this.I wish that I still had mine as a curiosity.

        My flat had a plain glass window in the bathroom; I don’t think that anyone could have seen in, but I had a poster of Mao that fitted it-it was just his face, actual size-so I fixed it over the lower pane and it looked as if he was in there, looking out.

        • I’ve got one kitty. 😄

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 20, 2017

            Little Red Book … Big Red Shed …

            Difference?

            The book had to come to you …

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 21, 2017

            I don’t know what happened to mine. You should have seen Chairman Mao gazing benignly out-it didn’t fool anyone, of course, but it looked really funny.

    • lurcher1948

       /  December 20, 2017

      National Party the pimps of China

  5. lurcher1948

     /  December 20, 2017

    HELL things were slack under Bill English and the departed national party,NZ was going downhill on a handcart… old man leadership just saying…
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/12/nz-schools-need-darned-good-british-style-thrashing-six-best-trousers/

  6. Zedd

     /  December 20, 2017

    I see that the new Govt. has just introduced:
    ‘Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill’

    now set down for 1st reading in new year !

    It was interesting that during Q-time, there was a question asked to Dr Clark about this bill, but the opposition MP could not help themselves ‘muddying the waters’ calling it ‘Medical MARIJUANA’ as has been pointed out (ad nauseum) this is a SLANG name & should not be used seriously in the Medicinal/Scientific context, but rather only as with personal/recreational use (IMHO) 😦

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 20, 2017

      Nitpicking ! Who cares what it’s called ?

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 20, 2017

        They are two names for the same thing, like glasses and spectacles or soft drink and fizzy drink or jumper and jersey.Marijuana is not a slang name, unlike dope or grass which are.

        • Zedd

           /  December 20, 2017

          I suggest you check your facts kitty, about ‘Marijuana’………

          btw; how many doctors call morphine ‘liquid smack’ ?

          Ignorance is bliss 😦

          • PartisanZ

             /  December 20, 2017

            Are you guys serious? I nearly died laughing reading these last three comments. Honestly, this is the stuff of superior comedy sketches …

            Scenario: Miss Kitty (of all people) accuses Zedd of “nitpicking”!

            She cites numerous ‘common & garden’ instances of one thing having two standard names, aside from slang terms or pet names … Miss Kitty knows how to call a spade a short, D-handled flat shovel …

            Zedd counters with his now classic line “How many doctors call morphine ‘liquid smack’?

            One of my favourite ever movies is called ‘Liquid Sky’ … and up North here at the moment on hot, humid sunny days, we have Liquid Roads …

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  December 21, 2017

            That quotation does NOT say that ignorance per se is bliss; it is ‘No more;where ignorance is bliss/Tis folly to be wise.’ (Thomas Grey) 😦

            ‘You beat your pate/And fancy wit will come/Knock as you will/There’s nobody at home.’ (Pope)

            I have no idea if any doctors refer to morphine that way, and nor have you, I suspect. That is irrelevant to the two names for marijuana/cannabis anyway.

            Google marijuana and you will find that it and cannabis are indeed two names for the same thing.

    • Gezza

       /  December 20, 2017

      I saw an article in Stuff earlier today saying in the interim the Government is decriminalising the smoking of cannabis by anyone with 12 months or less to live.

      • Zedd

         /  December 20, 2017

        I havent seen the details, but Ive heard enough to decide:

        1) Its gotta be better than the current status quo ie a couple of unfunded big-pharma products.. ‘take it or leave it’.. (OR go to the black-market & risk prosecution)

        2) at least this minister seems to be listening to the issues, not just taking the fear-mongering/misinformation ‘reefer madness path’, of the last mob & ignoring all the alternatives, occurring in many other OECD countries.. because they apparently ‘knew better’ ??

        fingers crossed.. its better than some are spectulating

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 21, 2017

          I would never call a spade a shovel. it is not one any more than a rake is a garden fork.Spades are used for digging, shovels for moving things like coals and snow.

  7. lurcher1948

     /  December 20, 2017

    SB ie slaters better half is trying to do her best to attack the GOVT,trying hard are the national oppersition,money is being spent but who gives a stuff, i dont 9 MORE YEARS
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/12/national-launch-negative-campaign-lets-undo/