Lorde and Israel

A singer has removed a gig from their schedule. In the circumstances I have concerns about the use of social media pressure to coerce, but this is just the entertainment industry and the bottom line is financial, and that’s likely to be the reason for the change.

But some seem to think it’s a big deal.

The Standard:

Kiwiblog:

It’s fair to question why Lorde has singled out Israel, but why single out Russia as a comparison? Activists in the world could probably argue against every venue if so inclined.

Tough talk from a dirty gutless flake? WO should know all about financial compromises and imperatives.

But this may not be the end of it, as the other side of social media pressure plays it’s hand.

83 Comments

  1. Tipene

     /  December 26, 2017

    Her career, her management, her schedule, her choice, and her consequences.

    Of course, in Lordes world, these principles of free will and sovereign choice don’t seem to apply to Israel, proving once again the hypocrisy of her virtue signalling double standards.

    I have no idea what she has or hasn’t read – but if she can’t understand epistemology 101, then it’s best she sticks to singing.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 26, 2017

      I would respect her more if she said that she was going to play where she chose to-you can’t tell me that long term it would make any difference to anyone or affect her career. The boycott thing is a kneejerk, mindless reaction. One example-boycotting Israel-made Soda Streams would mean I forget how many Palestinians being made unemployed, but dear me, the principle is more important than such collateral damage.

      • lurcher1948

         /  December 26, 2017

        Yep they moved out of the west bank and all the local jobs disappeared, but that didn’t worry the bds movement…just saying

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 26, 2017

          These details are mere bagatelles, of course. It must be a great consolation to all the workers to know that they were boycotted out of their jobs…by people who claim to be on their side.

  2. David

     /  December 26, 2017

    Elton John. Coldplay. Celine Dion and many other big names play there silly girl just caved in. Only place in the middle East where young women can enjoy a pop concert.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  December 26, 2017

      The boycott is sickening-pure anti-Semitism.

      Perhaps she thinks that she is more important than those people, David.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 26, 2017

        Thank you, JanO. Mazel tov !

      • Patzcuaro

         /  December 26, 2017

        The minute anyone critises Israel they are labelled anti-Semitic. If Israel wanted to reduce tension they could move its capital to Tel Aviv. But no they insist on having it in Jerusalem, to me Jerusalem is a holy city not a centre of politics. But by saying that I become anti-Semetic.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  December 26, 2017

          Israel is Jewish. To be anti-Israel per se is to be anti-Semitic. If someone is anti-China, they must be anti-Chinese.

          God gave Israel to Jews-it’s a tiny part of the world, but even that is begrudged. Pathetic.

          • Gezza

             /  December 26, 2017

            Jaweh doesn’t exist. Ridiculous claim.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  December 26, 2017

            Sounds like the Jewish God gave Israel to the Jews and the Islamic God gave it to the Muslims. In reality God gave it to nobody, men have fought over, won and lost it many times over the years. I am not anti Israel but I disagree with some of what the Israeli government says and does but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-Semetic it just means I don’t agree. I don’t agree with all the Chinese government does but I’m not anti Chinese, I don’t agree with all the NZ government does but I’m not anti NZers.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 26, 2017

              God gave it to the Jews-it’s the Jewish homeland.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  December 26, 2017

              Semitic, not Semetic.

            • Gezza

               /  December 26, 2017

              What makes you think that God gave it to the Jews

            • Patzcuaro

               /  December 26, 2017

              As understand evolution homo sapiens arose in Africa and as numbers increased and the climate allowed man spread out inter breeding with similar beings until we are where we are. “God” gave nobody anything people just migrated then fought over land. At certain points in time people inhabited various locations.

        • Strong For Life

           /  December 28, 2017

          King David established Jerusalem as the capital of Israel two thousand years ago.

      • David

         /  December 26, 2017

        So you are saying the palestinians are dumb as shit to continuing their half arsed terrorist attacks because they keep losing. I would say check the bank balances of the top Hamas people because there has to be a good reason why they wont even sit down for peace talks.

        • Gezza

           /  December 26, 2017

          So you are saying the palestinians are dumb as shit to continuing their half arsed terrorist attacks because they keep losing.
          No – you’re saying that. I’m just posting information which shows how many Palestinians have been killed by the Israelis who have illegally occupied all Palestinian territory, have blockaded them, harass them daily at thousands of checkpoints, under arms, create the situation where they fight back, & then muder them when they do, & you are saying that’s ok – but I’m saying it’s not.

          • David

             /  December 26, 2017

            I am saying they are dumb as shit or being used by people who dont want peace…Hamas, Iran etc. At the moment Palestinians wont even come to the table to try and find a peaceful outcome, they continue their stabbings, fling rockets etc to try and provoke a response cos then they have their martyrdom, funding and PR.
            No one cares about the Palestinians in the middle east they are just proxys for other agendas.

            • duperez

               /  December 26, 2017

              People who don’t want peace? Everyone wants peace. – Some only want peace after they have got rid of anyone with different beliefs than themselves, from living in the same place as themselves, close to them or in existence at all.

          • Gezza

             /  December 26, 2017

            No, they don’t want martyrdom per se, they want their land back. There are millions of Palestinians but an absolutely miniscule number carry out these attacks so I think you’re going way over the top. Because they don’t have tanks, guided missiles, attack drones, fighter planes, warships etc, they only have themselves & crappy unguided home built rockets.

            • They have billions in Aid money and they spend up to 10% of their budget paying blood money to the families of dead terrorists. None of this situation is good, but show me imperatives and peace initiatives from Palestinian voices that don’t compromise Israel unfairly.

              Pretty well every single day the Palestinians send missiles into Israel. The fact interceptors get them most of the time speaks to the waste and futility of their methodology.

            • Gezza

               /  December 26, 2017

              Well the problem really was caused when the British & then the UN gave what’s been Muslim & other peoples’ land for far longer than it was actually Jewish land to the Jews. They seem to have thought they could do that because the Arabs were backward & powerless & would eventually agree. And what we have now is the result. I don’t really see an end to it at the moment. Israelis won’t give it up, & neither will The Palestinians. This is the problem with the 3 religions involved. Fanatics on both sides, fighting over what they both claim is their land. I think it’s time for the Palestinians to accept Israel as a state because they can’t defeat them, but the longer the Israelis go on taking more Palestinian land, & a look at what land they have taken, the more clear it gets it’s really not about security. It’s about land. And driving the Palestinians out of the land the Zionists want.

        • Kevin

           /  December 26, 2017

          Those Pallies sure are useless fighters.

          • Gezza

             /  December 26, 2017

            Well, if you gave them the same amount of military equipment & training & US support Israel’s forces have, how useless would they be then?

            • David

               /  December 26, 2017

              Given the number of times the combined Arab armies have tried to take Israel down while out numbering them dozens to one, with more weapons and all the support the Soviet Union could muster, and still failing badly, I think there is more here than just firepower.

              The Palestinians are so massively outgunned, you would think they would look at other solutions than just firing useless rockets into Israel endlessly in the hope of getting so many of themselves killed someone else helps them.

              The Palestinians are just a death cult. Israel should just follow Sri Lanka’s example.

            • Gezza

               /  December 26, 2017

              Well obviously the Palestinians are not a death cult or they’d all be dead by now. Thousands more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis than the other way round & the combined Arab armies that have attacked Israel haven’t been given more weapons than the Israelis have.

            • David

               /  December 26, 2017

              “Well obviously the Palestinians are not a death cult or they’d all be dead by now.”

              I don’t think this is obvious in any way. Babies dressed as suicide bombers does say something different.

              “Thousands more Palestinians have been killed by Israelis than the other way round ”

              Correct. Would the situation be any different if the numbers where the other way around?

              “the combined Arab armies that have attacked Israel haven’t been given more weapons than the Israelis have.”

              Yes they have. In the 6-day war, the Egypt alone outnumbered Israel 3 to 1 and had 4 times the amount of armour and aircraft, mostly the latest Soviet hardware. Add to that Syria, Lebanon, Jordan & Iraq.

              The Yom Kippur War repeated this, while adding Cuba, Morocco and Saudi Arabia.

            • Gezza

               /  December 26, 2017

              Yom Kippur War

              “Response in the Soviet Union
              According to Chernyaev, on 4 Nov 1973, the Soviet leader Brezhnev said:

              We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn’t have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, “Save me!” He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them.”

              Ok david. I’ll stand corrected on that. Except that this war was about recovering lost Syrian & Egyptian territory from 1967 & not the destruction of the State of Israel. There were no plans for that. It was known that wasn’t going to be possible.

            • David

               /  December 26, 2017

              “There were no plans for that. It was known that wasn’t going to be possible.”

              Only because the US would have intervened to prevent it, and the Soviets would never have allow it to go that far.

            • Gezza

               /  December 26, 2017

              Of course. The Israelis limited their response for the same reason. They had threatened to go nuclear at one point.

      • lurcher1948

         /  December 26, 2017

        YAWN, dont pull out knifes in a gunfight just saying

  3. Patzcuaro

     /  December 26, 2017

    The boycott of Israel is very similar to the boycott of South Africa during the apartheid years. At that time I felt that supporting South Africa was a weak link in the Western chain, something that could be held against us by the developing world and exploited by the Eastern Bloc.

    I feel that Israel has become that weak link and will remain so until peace can be negotiated which protects Israel’s right to exist but provides for the Palestinians as well.

  4. robertguyton

     /  December 26, 2017

    Lorde’s choice.
    Why are Slater and Farrar so vehemently pro-Israel?

    • Conspiratoor

       /  December 26, 2017

      Putting aside the silly comments we are seeing here, I can think of a number of reasons robert. Not the least of which they appear to be vehemently pro democracy …and Israel stands alone as the only functioning democracy in the middle east

      • David

         /  December 26, 2017

        It appears no one likes democracy when it’s the Jew’s doing it.

        • alloytoo

           /  December 26, 2017

          Well technically the democracy is being done by Jews, Muslims, a smattering of other religions as well as atheists and includes, women and gays…… resulting in over a dozen coalition governments since the country’s formation.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  December 26, 2017

            True. Even more remarkable when you consider 20% are evil Zionists

    • Patzcuaro

       /  December 26, 2017

      Slater for money

    • Why not give us your viewpoint. We have theirs

  5. George

     /  December 26, 2017

    So she can sing in Russia that bastion of democracy but not in a country with democratic principles surrounding by the followers of the religion of peace

  6. Ray

     /  December 26, 2017

    David Farrar is a Jew and like anyone who lost family in the holocaust is quite rightly sensitive on the matter, as any normal person would be.
    The whaler on the other hand was given a well publised trip Israel and since has been a big supporter, religious right often are in the same camp.

    • Gezza

       /  December 26, 2017

      Yes. The evangelical Christians in the US believe the state of Israel has to be reestablished so Jesus can in glory. These people are part of Trump’s support base.

    • Kevin

       /  December 26, 2017

      WO is and always been a big supporter of Israel. There’s no “since then”.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  December 26, 2017

        True Kevin …but sadly a fact that has eluded the Slater fan club

        Just like to say, as the year draws to a close, how much I’ve enjoyed your dispassionate, well argued contributions. Never resorting to lazy, gratuitous insults. Havent always agreed but you’re a real trooper, seemingly quite happy to get down in the mud with the folks from the standard blog. Duncan Brown is cast in the same mould. Cheers,c

    • robertguyton

       /  December 26, 2017

      Thanks, Ray.

  7. Conspiratoor

     /  December 26, 2017

    The hypocrisy is strong in this one. Watch for her highly lauded forthcoming gig in china, that bastion of free speech and civil rights.

    Lest we forget this from a link posted yesterday…

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/346937/tiananmen-square-death-toll-10-000

    • lurcher1948

       /  December 26, 2017

      It was only 10000 deaths in the square think only for the Palestinians

    • robertguyton

       /  December 26, 2017

      She won’t perform in Israel, nor China, you imply, yet we trade, don’t we, with China. And sell our land to them.

      • David

         /  December 26, 2017

        We trade with Israel too, that might come as a surprise to you….

      • This is about a very influential rich and l famous NZer putting a political stake in the ground. Now she done it she’ll be called on to account for her boundaries.

        She’s made an adult choice and other adults will do that calling out.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  December 26, 2017

        Agreed robert. I dont like our growing dependence on china. They are playing a long game and no good will come of it. Jacindas gutless one finger salute to our old ally just brings us one step closer. Yuletide felicitations. Cheers,c

  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  December 26, 2017

    Just stupid, Lorde. The idiots who talked you into this really want you to boycott America and particularly Trump. You got suckered.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  December 26, 2017

      Do you serious think moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem is going to advance peace? Trump is just plating to his shrinking constituency.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 26, 2017

        Do you seriously think that pretending Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel is going to advance peace? When it has signally failrd to do so for decades?

      • Patzcuaro

         /  December 26, 2017

        Playing

  9. duperez

     /  December 26, 2017

    “Israelis’ reactions to Lorde is exactly why she shouldn’t play there”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/100176743/israelis-reactions-to-lorde-is-exactly-why-she-shouldnt-play-there

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 26, 2017

      Banal drivel.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  December 26, 2017

        As opposed to anal drivel

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 26, 2017

          It’s that as well. A more half-witted excuse for a column I’ve yet to see.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  December 26, 2017

            Something to argue the toss over on Boxing Day, news a bit slow otherwise.

    • The papers are one-sided and Dani the journo, while entitled to her opinion, buys into the whole Palestinians as the victims hysteria . I’m also heartily sick and tired of the South Africa comparison . There is no similarity that anyone has ever expressed that is analagous as I can see.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  December 26, 2017

        Dani is just an idiot. Palestinians are the victims but they are also the attackers. So are the Israelis. The Palestinians are divided and manipulated by their big players who pull their strings so no meaningful negotiation with them is possible. None of their players want peace. Trump has played the reality card. Nothing else is possible. Lefties prefer to live in their fantasy world but the Israelis and Palestinians have to live in the real one.

        • Conspiratoor

           /  December 26, 2017

          “Trump has played the reality card. Nothing else is possible”

          Yes al. An oddly muted reaction from the arab world, none of who have any time for the gaza rabble. Almost as if they are saying to israel …just get on with it

  10. Personally I regarded “Royals” as her only truly extraordinary song. I confess to thinking of the “special” class students when I see her dancing, or rather jerking weirdly and self consciously about the stage. That said , she’s awfully young and the pressure from snowflake, misguided in my opinion, virtue signalling millenials is huge.

    Anyone who calls themselves a feminist, who considers one person one vote, freedom of expression, religious expression and sexual orientation acceptance to be incontestable rights, should play Israel. After all, it is literally the only country in the Middle East where these rights are ingrained as a fundamental to the society. In every other country there these are not rights

  11. Corky

     /  December 26, 2017

    Lorde has been asked to reconsider by New Zealand’s Israeli Ambassador(?). A little late in my opinion. Lorde hasn’t the knowledge or skill to see the manipulation going on. The feral Left wont let her go, and will thought-bomb her into submission. Still, good on the Jews for giving it a go.

    • Gezza

       /  December 26, 2017

      No it’s Miri Regev, Israel’s Culture Minister.

      “Miriam “Miri” Regev is an Israeli politician and a former Brigadier-general in the Israel Defense Forces, in which she served as IDF Spokeswoman. She is currently a member of the Knesset for Likud and Minister of Culture and Sport. On June 14, 2017, she was appointed acting PM to serve while PM Netanyahu would be abroad

      She began serving as the IDF Spokesperson’s representative in the Israeli Southern Command. Regev was promoted to a Colonel rank for the position of Deputy IDF Spokesperson in 2002. In 2003, she was appointed coordinator of the national public relations efforts at the Israeli Prime Minister’s Office in preparation for the Iraq War. After a short stint (2004–2005) as the Chief Press and Media Censor, she was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General and to the position of IDF Spokesperson in 2005. She served in this position during Israel’s disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the 2006 Lebanon War.

      In November 2008, Regev joined the Likud party, saying that she had been a supporter of the party’s platform for many years. She won twenty-seventh place on the party’s list for the 2009 elections, just high enough to enter the Knesset as Likud won 27 seats. At the 2015 elections Regev was re-elected, after being placed fifth on Likud’s national list. She was subsequently appointed by prime minister Netanyahu to Minister of Culture and Sport in the new government.

      The Daily Beast has described her as the Likud party’s “attack dog”, an “outspoken politician who embodies a flag-waving, gung-ho brand of Zionism, and a folksy, sneering attitude towards the Israeli Left and the country’s media elites”, and “the closest thing Israel has to Sarah Palin”. Wikipedia

  12. I’m far more offended by her pretending in her songs that she grew up on the wrong side of the tracks when she’s from fucking Devonport.

    • duperez

       /  December 26, 2017

      Yeah, that’s as bad as well paid politicians talking about poverty.

      But it is the season to be offended, so fair enough. Actually it’s always the season to be offended so well done to Lorde for being the top hit of that Hit Parade this week. 🎼

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 26, 2017

      Plenty of Navy families in Devonport. Not all wealthy. It used to be a fairly poor area after the harbour bridge was built and it became a backwater instead of a main route. When we moved there over 30 years ago it was being rehabilitated but there were lots of decent ordinary working folk still there.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  December 26, 2017

      I think her father is an engineer. I never got the impression she was from the wrong side of the track, she has got where she is by a lot of hard work and a pinch of luck. She is young and youth often has a counter culture.

      I think at this point in her career it would be commercially wise to stay away from Israel, not much upside and a lot of downside.

      • Gezza

         /  December 26, 2017

        Going by comments here it’s going to put a lot of oldsters off listening to her music just so they can say they don’t really like it. 😕