Open Forum – Tuesday

26 December 2017

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

If providing opinions on or summaries of other information also provide a link to that information. Bloggers are welcome to summarise and link to their posts.

Comments worth more exposure may be repeated as posts.Comments from other forums can be repeated here, cut and paste is fine.

Your NZ is a mostly political and social issues blog but not limited to that, and views from anywhere on the political spectrum are welcome. Some ground rules:

  • If possible support arguments, news, points or opinions with links to sources and facts.
  • Please don’t post anything illegal, potentially defamatory or abusive.

FIRST TIME COMMENTERS: Due to abuse by a few first comments under any ID will park in moderation until released (as soon as possible but it can sometimes take a while).

Sometimes comments will go into moderation or spam automatically due to mistyped ID, too many links (>4), or trigger text or other at risk criteria.

Free speech is an important principle here but some people who might pose a risk to the site will have to keep going through moderation due to abuses by a small number of malicious people.

Next Post

44 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  December 26, 2017

    Interesting going over yesterdays posts. It was Xmas day and some posters were thinking of the Phantom Upticker. It’s a reminder to me some peoples lives revolve around social media. I make no judgement as to whether that’s a good or bad thing- each to their own.
    I just wonder what they did before the advent of social media?

    On to other matters. Went up town yesterday. Talk about quiet, even though it was Xmas day. Last year many of our local takeaway shops would have been opened. They have apparently fallen to Western sloth; realising there is more to life than making money. We only had three establishments open: MacDonalds, a Cambodian bakery and the Muslim Indian who makes it quite clear he’s Muslim with signs proclaiming Halal and murals with crescents. A picture of the Haj is placed discreetly above the shop entrance to make every customer symbolically bow to Allah.

    Talking of indoctrination, I see Lorde has confirmed herself as light weight after succumbing to bullying and indoctrination by Jew hating lefties. Truth be known, her management probably told her if she wants a career, Israel is out. Lorde has said she one day wants to play in Israel. That will never happen. Her career will be long gone before that could ever occur. I think with more maturity she will regret her decision as she realises how she was manipulated by people who cared little for her, or her career.

    No regrets for Trumpy, eh? He stuck it to the UN. Silly Jacinda didn’t have the foresight to abstain from voting. To be fair, what Marxist would? I’m guessing those countries who defied America while accepting its aid are banking on America having second thoughts and maybe mellowing its stance and forgiving. Maybe hoping international pressure will force America to back down. I doubt that. So we are about to see which is stronger: morality and an empty stomach; or a full stomach and capitulation to The Great Satan. Should be interesting when the intestinal worms start biting.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  December 26, 2017

      Those that abstained from the U.N. vote basically said we support the resolution but don’t want to offend the US or have ongoing negotiations with the US e.g. Mexico and Canada. 9 votes against is a massive snub to the US. 22 of the Marxist governments in the EU including France, Germany and the UK voted for the resolution.

      • Corky

         /  December 26, 2017

        True, but this is politics. Abstaining allows wiggle room and saving face. Voting against
        America doesn’t. Not that I see any repercussions for New Zealand.

        ”22 of the Marxist governments in the EU including France, Germany and the UK voted for the resolution.”

        Lol, like the jibe. But honestly, you wouldn’t expect anything different from those gutless cowards, would you? They have sold their people out to Islam and been shown up by Trump to be globalists rather than patriots.

        God bless Trumpy and the American way.in the new year.

        • duperez

           /  December 26, 2017

          So you reckon all countries in the world are gutless cowards who’ve sold their people out to Islam except for those who supported the USA in the UN vote? Or is that just the European lot?
          I just checked to find your true courageous thinkers of our time are Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Togo, Nauru, the Marshall Islands, Guatemala and Honduras. (Besides USA and Israel)🙃

      • Patzcuaro

         /  December 26, 2017

        It all makes Ardern and New Zealand appear rather adult, someone with the maturity and self assurance to make their own decisions as opposed to the banana republics that voted as they were told.

        • Corky

           /  December 26, 2017

          Well, that’s debatable. For that to be a truism, then the forum NZ was voting in should have validity and be neutral. The UN has proven to be agenda driven with a default setting of socialism. Like I hinted at before, all things are possible with a full stomach. Jacinda had the caloric energy to be mature and magnanimous.

          I look forward to the US punishing those who think they can fuck with the US and Israel, and show utter contempt. That may have been the case under Obama. I doubt it will happen under Trump. All Trump is doing is stating there will be consequences for your actions. Just as America has had to suffer for its actions.

          If I thought Palestine genuinely wanted peace…and was prepared to accept the Israeli state, I wouldn’t want a bar of what America is doing.

          That’s not the case. Palestine hates Israel. Full Stop.Trump is dealing to the UN, Palestine and other worthless UN member states who are used to talking, taking the piss and doing nothing except go around in circles.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 26, 2017

          Rubbish. It just confirms Jacinda as a mindless virtue signaller like most of her supporters.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  December 26, 2017

            Are they actually mindless virtue signaler or just people you disagree with? Can you actually be a mindless virtue signaller, virtue signallers must actually believe in something for a start before they can signal their virtue.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 26, 2017

              No. They only have to believe their tribe is always right. Then they will be told what to believe and how to signal allegiance. Just like Lorde.

            • Patzcuaro

               /  December 26, 2017

              Sounds like Israelis

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 26, 2017

              Except that Israel’s physical survival depends on it but for virtue signallers it is only their own self-image and world-view at stake.

        • I don’t agree at all. Her reaction was knee jerk, new age liberal anti Israel. It’s standard leftist ideology.

    • Gezza

       /  December 26, 2017

      Merry Christmas Corks. Good to see you right into the season of good will to all. 👍🏼

    • lurcher1948

       /  December 26, 2017

      I’m not the phantom downticker but i love downticking you Corky 6 others do to,but merry christmas Corky enjoy the rejection,I do,love hurts

      • Corky

         /  December 26, 2017

        This downticking obsession is a hoot. I downticked myself three times to make you happy.
        I now realise up and down ticks are important to some people. It’s xmas time so I will downtick myself again as a late xmas present just for you Lurchy.

  2. Kitty Catkin

     /  December 26, 2017

    I was interested to hear Trump’s UN henchwoman saying in what could only be heard in threatening tones that the US would remember those who disrespected them (by daring to disagree with them)

    • Corky

       /  December 26, 2017

      Correct. Lets hope they don’t get the jelly liberal disease and chicken out when things come to the crunch.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  December 26, 2017

        It sounded like the school bully telling someone to just wait until the end of school today. I found it undignified and hectoring-and bullying.

        I see that Trump is claiming to have revived saying ‘Merry Christmas’. What nonsense-does he really delude himself that he has done this ?

  3. Corky

     /  December 26, 2017

    Oh my! Just watched One News. I hope someone else was watching to confirm I wasn’t dreaming. The reporter was at a mall. I hardly saw one New Zealander of European or Maori descent as the cameras rolled. Geez, we need to do something about immigration if we are to keep our National identity. I found the clip truly scary..

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 26, 2017

      We will be going down to Auckland and staying at our favourite little hotel owned and run by a lovely Chinese family who work hard and look after each other and their guests. I can’t imagine better folk becoming Kiwis as their children and grandchildren are born.

      Immigration brings good and bad. I suspect for every bad apple there are many good ones striving for a better life for them and their children in a way that complacent born and bred Kiwis don’t. Don’t throw out the babies with the bathwater.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  December 26, 2017

        I’m having Xmas in the BOI I hear they have finished the roadworks at Akerama

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 26, 2017

          Possible. We’ll be going south through it tomorrow so will know then.

      • Corky

         /  December 26, 2017

        It’s not the immigrants I’m that worried about, Alan( apart from Muslims). Darn right most of these guys are hard workers. No argument there.

        But for us to be New Zealanders, our cultural ways must always be to the fore. Many immigrants bring their own customs and ways which is good. I remember when New Zealand was a grey three veg and potato backwater. However, when commerce, housing and lifestyles become more foreign dominated than the native culture, we have a problem.

        I have notice more then once, New Zealanders completely ignored in some shops, or shop owners throwing their hands up in a dismissive manner because their grasp of English was poor.

        All I’m asking for is an attitude like China, Japan and Saudi Arabia. Foreigners will never dominate those countries.

        • Mefrostate

           /  December 26, 2017

          How do you delineate between a New Zealander and a foreigner? Is my ethnically-Chinese friend who was born in Palmerston North a New Zealander? What about my foreign-born friend who just got her citizenship after 5-years? Does your answer differ if she was born in England rather than India? Would you rather she be ethnically caucasian or ethnically Indian? How would you tell the difference between these elements by checking her ethnicity at mall?

          It just seems to me that the Garner Scan is an incredibly blunt tool for drawing conclusions about NZ’s immigration policy.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  December 26, 2017

            Immigration is a numbers game. Whether you know a recent immigrant and what you may think of he/she is irrelevant. In overwhelming numbers newly arriving chinese have no desire to integrate much less assimilate. For evidence take a drive out east or north to the rapidly expanding exclusive asian enclaves at hobsonville and long bay

            • Mefrostate

               /  December 26, 2017

              What rate of immigration do you think NZ should have?

              Gentrification (ethnic and otherwise) is likely a significant cause of the failure to assimilate, but I see it as largely the product of bad housing policy rather than a particular failing of any one ethnicity or culture.

              My Chinese friend who was born in Palmy is way more of a classic kiwi than I am, but it sounds like Corky would be quite upset to see him in the queue at Kmart.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  December 26, 2017

              Mefro, at the current rate we will be at 10000000 by the time I sign off. At which stage we will effectively be a suburb of china if current ratios are maintained. My mokopuna will be tenants in what was formerly their own country …unless they have accumated sufficient wealth to give them options. I expect two to make it and two to fail

              To answer your question, i don’t see a numerical target but rather a focus on importing skills from countries where these skills are recognised in nz, and are more likely to assimilate. It is clear this hasn’t been the case in recent years.

            • Corky

               /  December 26, 2017

              ”My Chinese friend who was born in Palmy is way more of a classic kiwi than I am, but it sounds like Corky would be quite upset to see him in the queue at Kmart.”

              Geez, what a lame argument. I was talking of TRENDS, TRENDS TRENDS !!!!

            • Mefrostate

               /  December 26, 2017

              @Conspiratoor at our current net migration rate of 70k it would take 85 years for the population to reach 10 million, and that’s without accounting for the decline in the RNI. At that stage we would have a population 1/6th the size of the current UK, despite having comparable land masses. Colour me unconcerned.

              Can you explain your concerns about us being a “suburb of China”? Is it the ethnicity, the culture, or the values of Chinese migrants that you’re concerned about?

              Your mokopuna are pretty likely to be tenants as it is, which is largely the result of bad housing policy than immigration.

              “rather a focus on importing skills from countries where these skills are recognised in nz We do.

              “are more likely to assimilate” What metric would you like Immigration NZ to use for this?

              @Corky You didn’t answer each of my questions above.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  December 26, 2017

              Mefro, your unconcern is predictable but of no concern to me. Consider the following graph which illustrates the current rate of population growth extrapolated out to 2050.  

              Even stats nz are forecasting 7.5 million by 2068, based on net migration of only 30,000 pa, less than half what it is currently. Incidentally arrivals outstripped those leaving by 73,000 in the past year, with chinese as the biggest group of migrants

          • Patzcuaro

             /  December 26, 2017

            Do they speak like Kiwis?

            • Mefrostate

               /  December 26, 2017

              They passed the acceptable English language requirements portion of their visa requirements.

            • Mefrostate

               /  December 26, 2017

              Sufficient English to communicate professionally & socially, but still with a pretty clear accent.

          • Corky

             /  December 27, 2017

            ”@Corky You didn’t answer each of my questions above.”

            Correct. The answers are self evident.

            ”It just seems to me that the Garner Scan is an incredibly blunt tool for drawing conclusions about NZ’s immigration policy.”

            You mean the” Corky scan” I talked about that on this blog years before Garner decided to become more observant and actually ”look.”.

      • Conspiratoor

         /  December 26, 2017

        An admirable sentiment al. If we let all the lovely people in the world who work hard, to bring themselves and all their lovely extended family, and allow them to settle here, we just compound the underlying problem caused by all these lovely people …a chronic skills shortage

  4. Mefrostate

     /  December 26, 2017

    For everyone discussing immigration here, I’m keen to hear your opinions on the following: What does a migrant need to achieve in order to have successfully assimilated into NZ culture?

    I’m genuinely curious what this means to you.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  December 26, 2017

      A range of friends of different ethnicities and acceptance of them; an understanding of our physical and intellectual environment and how to live in and look after it; good communication skills.

      • Mefrostate

         /  December 26, 2017

        Wholly behind these. Sadly they’re often lacking even in those born here.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  December 26, 2017

          For sure. But it’s what our immigration policies should aspire to produce. Personally, I love to hear stories from other places and worlds that make our lives and places richer.

          • Mefrostate

             /  December 26, 2017

            Aside from English language requirements, what do you think about an idea of a ‘kiwi test’ as part of the citizenship requirements?

          • Conspiratoor

             /  December 26, 2017

            Oh I don’t know al. Perhaps because tour guides, chefs and motel operators are not on the wanted list. However they all need a roof over their heads, plumbing and infrastructure that works …all areas where we appear to have a growing shortage where none existed a few years ago. I wonder why…

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  December 26, 2017

              Probably because now there are a tonne of bureaucratic requirements and costs that stop anything being done. I just had an estimate of $45K for an approved sewage plant for a two bedroom cottage when I note a new septic tank costs $3K. The lunatics are in charge of the asylum.