Trump denies ‘shithole countries’ comment

A furore erupted after reporting that President Trump referred to immigrants from ‘shithole countries’ in an Oval office meeting. Trump denies using those words, but others have corroborated the original story.

Washington Post: Trump derides protections for immigrants from ‘shithole’ countries

President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they discussed protecting immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to several people briefed on the meeting.

“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to countries mentioned by the lawmakers.

Trump then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries such as Norway, whose prime minister he met with Wednesday. The president, according to a White House official, also suggested he would be open to more immigrants from Asian countries because he felt that they help the United States economically.

In addition, the president singled out Haiti, telling lawmakers that immigrants from that country must be left out of any deal, these people said.

“Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”

This set off yet another round of criticisms and defences of Trump. Initially there was no denial from the White House.

NY Times: Trump Alarms Lawmakers With Disparaging Words for Haiti and Africa

Mr. Trump’s remarks, the latest example of his penchant for racially tinged remarks denigrating immigrants, left members of Congress from both parties attending the meeting in the Cabinet Room alarmed and mystified.

In a written statement, Raj Shah, the White House deputy press secretary, did not deny the account of the meeting on Thursday or directly address Mr. Trump’s comments.

“Certain Washington politicians choose to fight for foreign countries, but President Trump will always fight for the American people. Like other nations that have merit-based immigration, President Trump is fighting for permanent solutions that make our country stronger by welcoming those who can contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.”

But the president’s vulgar language on a delicate issue left the fate of the broader immigration debate in limbo and had the potential to torpedo the chances of achieving the deal being sought to protect about 800,000 undocumented immigrants brought to the country as children.

And they drew a backlash from Republican and Democratic lawmakers, many of whom called Mr. Trump’s utterances unacceptable at best and plainly racist at worst.

Representative Mia Love, a Republican of Utah who is of Haitian descent, demanded an apology from the president, saying his comments were “unkind, divisive, elitist, and fly in the face of our nation’s values.”

“As an American, I am ashamed of the president,” said Representative Luis V. Gutiérrez, Democrat of Illinois. “His comments are disappointing, unbelievable, but not surprising.” He added, we can now “say with 100 percent confidence that the president is a racist who does not share the values enshrined in our Constitution or Declaration of Independence.”

The reactions were extraordinary bipartisan rebukes to a sitting president, but they only fanned what has been a long-simmering debate over Mr. Trump’s views and talk on race.

Unsurprisingly Trump has tweeted denials.

But these denials are disputed.

Chicago Sun Times – Durbin on Trump: ‘He said those hateful things, and he said them repeatedly’

Sen. Dick Durbin on Friday morning confirmed that President Donald Trump referred to some countries as “shithole” countries during a discussion on immigration policies and said things that were “hate-filled, vile and racist.”

Durbin, who was in the meeting with Trump, made his comments just moments after Trump denied using the expletive on Twitter.

Durbin noted that there were 12 witnesses, including several other U.S. senators, in the room during Trump’s comments.

Durbin said that during the meeting Trump said things “in the course of his comments which were hate-filed, vile and racist.”

“I use those word advisedly. I understand how powerful they are. But I cannot believe in the history of the White House in that Oval Office that any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday.”

So another shit storm over Trump, who seems to have lied in denial.

It’s hard to describe this as a new low for the Trump presidency, it just keeps bumping along the bottom.

 

121 Comments

  1. Griff

     /  January 13, 2018

    “It’s hard to describe this as a new low for the Trump presidency”

    Bread and circuses .
    Tax cuts and Trumps inappropriate behavior.

  2. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 13, 2018

    Sadly there are a lot of shit-hole countries which is exactly why their unfortunate citizens want to emigrate to the US. Trump speaks truth; Democrats faint; media crap explodes.

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 13, 2018

      trump has forgotten – if he ever knew – that what made America ‘great’ was all those immigrants who fled grinding poverty for a better life.

      America was built on migration and cheap labour from disadvantaged countries and here trump is – treating their troubled places of origin as an indictment on those fleeing, rather than seeing them as victims of circumstance.

      What a pity he wasn’t born in Somalia or Haiti. That would have dealt to his privileged and insufferable judgementalism.

      • Corky

         /  January 13, 2018

        ”If he ever knew – that what made America ‘great’ was all those immigrants who fled grinding poverty for a better life.”

        Yeah, but they didn’t want to change America. They weren’t a drain on the economy. They came legally. They didn’t hate their new country. They didn’t protest.

        • Joe Bloggs

           /  January 13, 2018

          Your point? Irrelevant really.

          Of course migrants changed America – look at the Swedes and Irish fleeing broken countries in the mid 1800s, or the 200,000 immigrants from El Salvador who keep Washington running.

          Or the post-war German migrants (of whom trump’s father was one – so ashamed of coming from Germany – widely considered to be a “shithole” by Americans fighting in two world wars – that he pretended for most of his life that he was Swedish).

          Or the Jewish and Catholic migrants…

          Of course they changed America.

          Why is it so problematic that people come from shithole countries seeking better lives.

          • sorethumb

             /  January 13, 2018

            The flaw in your argument is equating shithole 1910/shithole 2010. Also development isn’t linear.

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  January 13, 2018

              And the flaw in YOUR argument is that El Salvador migrantion to America was at its highest in the 1980s when more than 25% of its population fled the civil war.

          • Corky

             /  January 13, 2018

            I guess what I was trying to say is this- there is a solid core of immigrants who now come to America who aren’t prepared to assimilate to any extent. They want to keep their old ways( and grudges) while simultaneously enjoying what America has to offer them.

            Old time immigrants changed America by their hard work and thrift…not by demanding America change for them, become less racist, or protect their human rights.

            • If those countries aren’t shitholes, then there will be do problem deporting illegal immigrants back there.

            • Corky

               /  January 13, 2018

              Do woppa doodo.,

            • Joe Bloggs

               /  January 13, 2018

              Fair enough Corky – we all like to retain our links to our home countries and to the cultures we grew up in…

              but by the same token there’s a solid core of immigrants who migrant seeking new beginnings, better lives, etc., who are willing and able to contribute and happy to assimilate, to adopt the new ways and to escape the grudges in their home countries.

              It’s not only the old-time immigrants who changed America, eh.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 13, 2018

        That would have dealt to his privileged and insufferable judgementalism.

        Sounds like the definition of Washington Democrats.

        Trump’s description of these countries was accurate. Unlike the emigration that made America these immigrants too often bring with them the beliefs and attitudes that made their home country a shit hole.

      • sorethumb

         /  January 13, 2018

    • artcroft

       /  January 13, 2018

      Trump’s point is that people from shit hole countries are arseholes. So Norwegians are nice and Haitians are thieves and rapists. This is a specious argument. It sounds superficially plausible but is in fact wrong. Many Haitians are excellent people, some Norwegians are f**kwits. What Trump is really asking of America is can they all go back to the days of general discrimination and putting up signs on shop doors saying “No blacks allowed”.
      It’s a searching question. America is at a crossroads here. The idea has its attractions,(personal liberty and all) and many shopkeepers would love to see those days back. But Trump is not the sort to be followed blindly.

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  January 13, 2018

        Exactly.

        All the blowhards here with all their supporting comments about shithole countries are studiously ignoring the fact that trump hasn’t just called shithole countries shitholes, he’s labelled the people trying to get out of those countries as shithole people, and is using that to shape a whites-only immigration policy.

        The America of the early twentieth century used a race based/ eugenic argument for its National Origins Act immigration programme. trump is doing the same. trump entered the presidential race with a racist conspiracy theory, he ran a racist campaigfn, he supported white supremacists at Charlottesville, he continues to say racist things.

        Its sad that we’re so indifferent to racial inequality yet so sensitive to being called out for racist comments.

        • artcroft

           /  January 13, 2018

          Be interesting to see what this does to Trump’s popularity ratings. If he stays in the high 30’s then watch out, cos Trump will eventually fall (he’s a dimwit with good intuition) but he’s sowing the ground for someone else is my feelings.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 13, 2018

            The immigrants also brought organised crime, like the Mafia, Not all came with a good work ethic, it’s not in human nature that they should.

            There were the ones who ran sweatshops and became slumlords. Some met the new migrants as soon as they arrived and heartlessly fleeced them.

            To put them all together as a homogenous group is naive and shows a lack of knowledge of history and human nature.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Also, many ended up as badly off or even worse off than they had been .

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              as badly off as

            • artcroft

               /  January 13, 2018

              True but the idea is to do what Aussie does and deport the s**t heels and accept the hard working, rather than say “No kiwis in Oz thanks”.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              But they didn’t or the Mafia would have died out.

            • Blazer

               /  January 13, 2018

              are you not aware that America was the dumping ground for criminals before the Brits changed to exporting them to…Australia.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Yes, of course I am. They were transported to places like Virginia. I was talking about immigrants, not those who were transported.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 13, 2018

        Rubbish. He said the US takes too many from shit hole countries and is advocating for exactly the kind of selection policy practised by your country and those of most other countries of his critics.

  3. Maggy Wassilieff

     /  January 13, 2018
    • George

       /  January 13, 2018

      Ah but that’s different.
      There you have the black privilege.
      He was allowed to insult other blacks

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 13, 2018

        … as well as whites like Cameron.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 13, 2018

        The article says ‘reportedly’ and he said it (if he did say it) of a particular situation. He also said that David Cameron had been distracted.

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 13, 2018

      That’s a false equivalence Maggie:

      1. Obama recognised that Libya was a shit show because it was buggered by an imperialist invading force – good ole colonialism at work once again. trump wouldn’t know how to spell white colonialist oppression let alone understand what it means

      2. Obama didn’t try to use Libya’s ruination at the hands of Cameron to justify a white-only immigration policy – trump’s done exactly that. America’s interfered in the economic growth of most of the worlds countries and is in no small part responsible for ensuring many remain shitholes.

  4. Griff

     /  January 13, 2018

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

    • Patzcuaro

       /  January 13, 2018

      Petty thieves have used a variant of whataboutism for ages, distract the target then pinch their bag. I wonder what Trump is pinching apart from bottoms that is.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 13, 2018

        Ummmm…..use your imagination, dearie. I am too much of a lady to say it 😀 😀 😀

  5. Trevors_elbow

     /  January 13, 2018

    TRUUUUMMMMMPPPPP….

    He just keeps going though.

    This is so funny to watch.

    He won, establishment figures like Senators hate it as it ruins their power structures and hierarchies, so they do everything possible to undermine him …. and the press dutifully report the undermining….

    Popcorn please…

  6. Corky

     /  January 13, 2018

    The truth hurts. ”Shithole countries” is a moniker that’s been been used for years on this blog. It just shows the president knows that truth when he sees it.

  7. Trump is an idiot.

    However he has well played to his base again, if he said this. Many countries are perfectly encapsulated when described as shitholes. It’s a very descriptive term to describe a lack of infrastructure and sanitation, lack of opportunity, lack of human rights, lack of stable governance rife with corruption and inhumanity.

  8. Blazer

     /  January 13, 2018

    I guess no one would mind if we called a NZ politician that lacked empathy,was a serial liar,as slippery as an eel and plumbed new depths in dirty politics a…shithead…no one would be overly concerned..at all…then.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 13, 2018

      Ask patu.

    • You leave Clinton alone

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 13, 2018

        That is a different issue, Blazer, you seem to have missed the point of the discussion.

        • Blazer

           /  January 13, 2018

          I always look at the..wider picture,especially when faux outrage…rears up.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 13, 2018

            You may very well think so, but that is not how it comes across.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 13, 2018

            If you mean fake, say so. It is very affected to say faux-it’s like businesses who think that faux fur sounds more refined than fake fur. Quel canard.

            • Blazer

               /  January 13, 2018

              I say whatever I like…nobody lectures you,do not lecture ..others.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Temper, temper ! You really can’t bear it that someone knows more than you, can you ?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              (laughs at Blazer)

  9. David

     /  January 13, 2018

    Yawn at the comment if he made it but the endless game in Washington of Democrat leaks and especially froma closed door meetings suggest that the Dems dont want a DACA deal because they think it will embarass Trump and split the Repblicans.
    The Democrats are struggling with what to do with an immigration deal because the 2 wings of the party are viciously opposed to each other, torpedoing the whole thing saves them a headache and at the end of the day the Democrats only care about DACA because its 900,000 extra votes for them.

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 13, 2018

      David, you could learn a lot from the dignity of the poor and the dispossessed, the migrants fleeing poverty for a better future.

      • sorethumb

         /  January 13, 2018

        You could learn that demographers (1960’s) were worried about the exploding populations on the Pacific Islands; you could learn the The RC forbade birth control in the philippines; you could learn that Mohamad the taxi driver had 10 children, two wives and was planning on number 3?

      • David

         /  January 13, 2018

        Joe what could I possibly learn from law breakers who undermine the wages of the working class in America, MS13 gang members and the others who work under the table for slave wages to prop up and fatten the profits of corporate america.
        Immigration is fine but do it legally and let in people who add value like we, the Canadians, Australians and others do. The flip side Joe of illegal immigration is the people from shithole countries should stay home and improve their own country, everyone looses.

    • Gezza

       /  January 13, 2018

      the Democrats only care about DACA because its 900,000 extra votes for them
      No I don’t think that’s entirely correct. At Trump’s bipartisan meeting some Republicans & even Trump said they would genuinely like to do something for DACA illegals, because they recognise thousands of them are now in their 30s & 40s & have lived in the US all their lives, working, paying taxes, keeping their noses clean – they’re essentially Americans.

      Trump’s cynically using them as bargaining chip to get his wall and desired wall, border security & immigration beef ups & immigration policy changes made.

      I agree with the immigration & security changes, & even the border wall or fence, as it is now being proposed – which is pretty what Obama’s government also proposed.

      But I don’t think a pathway for citizenship for DACA migrants who came with their parents as children should be conditional on agreement on those other matters. It’s a moral issue.

      • David

         /  January 13, 2018

        I kinda agree Gezza but if you do the amnesty in isolation as a moral issue then you will end up with a surge of yet more illegal entries bringing their kids, if you dont end chain migration then the parents who smuggled their kids who are now the DACA,s will come in to. I think the last terrorist who came in on chain migration was 1 of 31 people of the same family who came in because 1 family member won a place on the diversity lottery visa.
        Its a bloody mess and is a vivd example of how gridlocked America is, the Democrats want voters and cheap gardeners and maids the Republicans want the cheap labour for the big end of town.

        • Gezza

           /  January 13, 2018

          Fair points David. NZ tightened up its own family renion category criteria because chain migration was leading to too much of an imbalance with skilled migration.

        • Gezza

           /  January 13, 2018

          I saw some numbers in the last few days. Can’t remember where but they showed that more illegals were deported under the Obama administration’s last year than the first year of Trump’s. Might’ve been on Fox. The point was made that this was because the numbers of illegals trying to get in is claimed to have reduced.

          A further point made in that Trump meeting by one of the border or immigration officials is that their immigration IT & therefore visitor / work visa tracking systems are inadequate – and that most of their illegals are actually visa overstayers, not people sneaking in over their Southern border.

  10. “The first thing that came to mind was very unfortunate and unhelpful,” Ryan said in an interview on CNN speaking about reports that fellow Republican Trump had referred to them as “shithole countries.”

    Asked about how Trump’s comments could impact a congressional deal on immigration reform, Ryan said: “We just have to get it done.”

  11. duperez

     /  January 13, 2018

    At least the supporters of President Trump here simply get on and accept that he did say what is claimed.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 13, 2018

      The substantive point is that as usual the comment is innocuous but is being used to serve a political agenda of derailing an attempt to reach a bi-partisan accord. Just the usual Lefty hate poison.

      • duperez

         /  January 13, 2018

        And there’s the rub. Some say the comment is innocuous. Some say the comment reflects a truth. Some might say that even though the comment might reflect the truth, making the comment is not innocuous.

        Which means this. Is public discourse to be unbridled by considerations of tact, offence given, and taken, and done to appeal to the lowest common denominator traits of people? Or (hopefully) aspire to encourage more civilised behaviour and living together?

        Should acknowledged leaders be the leaders and models for rational, mature public discourse or should they be poking holes in the bottom of the boat?

        My submission is that ordinary people should need to rise to the level of the leaders setting the standard, not just of their utterances but the wisdom and quality of the thinking behind those.

        It will be too late to complain about standards when we commonly see in the MSM that President Trump is a moronic, shithead, simpleton surrounded by legions of boot and arse licking sycophantic imbeciles. Or the same said of those who voice reservations about his behaviour.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 13, 2018

          If I called your house or business a shithole, Alan, would you say it was innocuous ?

          I don’t know if your holiday places are online, but if some visitor wrote that, you would probably think that it was a gross insult/

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 13, 2018

            If it was a shit hole that I was desperate to escape I would enthusiastically agree and be grateful for the honesty.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              What if some malicious guest damaged the business by describing your rentals as that ?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2018

              What on earth has that got to do with Trump’s comment or mine? Are you seriously suggesting the countries he’s talking about are not shit-holes?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              It is a gross insult to call a country that and one beneath the dignity of his office . It’s vulgar and ignorant.

              It is impossible to imagine an NZ PM saying that in such a setting.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2018

              It’s only an insult if the country doesn’t deserve it. Much of Africa and obviously Haiti do since they can’t/won’t/don’t feed or look after their people in a way that modern knowledge and technology should enable.

              Sure it is vulgar but it is more vigorous for being so in the context of a hot debate. It’s far more evil to make a country into a shit-hole or pretend it isn’t one than to describe it as such when it is one.

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2018

              In the world of international politics that Trump now inhabits only a shithead or dickhead would do it though.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2018

              I think you would be disillusioned if you could actually eavesdrop on the world you describe. Blunt/coarse language is probably far more common in private there than you believe. Likewise in the media out of public view. Trump just doesn’t apply the same level of public censorship.

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2018

              Well Trump must be as thick as a brick if he doesn’t realise by now that in the White House, ever since Nixon one thing is certain, whatever he says anywhere will leak like it went thru a bloody sieve. Nothing is containable.

  12. sorethumb

     /  January 13, 2018

  13. sorethumb

     /  January 13, 2018

    Trump was saying what a lot of people think about racial/cultural difference.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  January 13, 2018

      He says what a lot of people think about the way to treat women, but that doesn’t make it not offensive to talk about grabbing women’s genitals (pussies) and ‘fucking’ married women ‘like a bitch’. (his words)

      • Blazer

         /  January 13, 2018

        terrible grammar…’doesn’t make it not’…double negative.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 13, 2018

          It is a perfectly acceptable usage,and not a double negative.

          The fact that Trump says it does NOT make something inoffensive-this is quite different to saying that because he says it, it is offensive. Think about it. There is a different shade of meaning here.’ Not unimportant’ has a different shade of meaning to ‘important’.

          • Blazer

             /  January 13, 2018

            the grammar ..stinks…own it.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 15, 2018

              If you believe that, you would have to believe that such writers as the Greek masters and Jonathan Swift were ignorant. I forget who invented it, one of the ancient Greeks. I hope that you don’t imagine that you know better than such people.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 13, 2018

          May I suggest that you google this usage ? It’s called a litote.

          • Blazer

             /  January 13, 2018

            a double negative = a positive,as per litote…e.g…yes we have ..no bananas.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Oh, drivel. It is not the usual double negative at all. That would be ‘I don’t want no dinner.’ which really says ‘I want dinner.’ A litote is quite different and is a figure of speech . One might say ironically ‘I am not unfamiliar with English literature.’ That is a litote. If you can’t or won’t see the difference, you are displaying your own ignorance, an art in which you are not untalented.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Yes, we have no bananas is a double negative, not a litote.

          • Blazer

             /  January 13, 2018

            betold..I used to go out with a..librarian..FFS!

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              That doesn’t make you an expert on English usage. My ex-partner was an actor, but that didn’t make me one or make him know as much about English literature as I do. I went out with a musician, but that didn’t make me able to play an instrument.

            • Blazer

               /  January 13, 2018

              don’t know about that..you’re good at acting..the..fool.

        • Gezza

           /  January 13, 2018

  14. sorethumb

     /  January 13, 2018

    A wall has long protected respectable evolutionary inquiry from accusations of aiding and abetting racism. That wall is the belief that genetic change happens at such a glacial pace that there simply was not time, in the 50,000 years since humans spread out from Africa, for selection pressures to have altered the genome in anything but the most trivial way (e.g., changes in skin color and nose shape were adaptive responses to cold climates). Evolutionary psychology has therefore focused on the Pleistocene era – the period from about 1.8 million years ago to the dawn of agriculture — during which our common humanity was forged for the hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

    But the writing is on the wall. Russian scientists showed in the 1990s that a strong selection pressure (picking out and breeding only the tamest fox pups in each generation) created what was — in behavior as well as body — essentially a new species in just 30 generations. That would correspond to about 750 years for humans. Humans may never have experienced such a strong selection pressure for such a long period, but they surely experienced many weaker selection pressures that lasted far longer, and for which some heritable personality traits were more adaptive than others. It stands to reason that local populations (not continent-wide “races”) adapted to local circumstances by a process known as “co-evolution” in which genes and cultural elements change over time and mutually influence each other. The best documented example of this process is the co-evolution of genetic mutations that maintain the ability to fully digest lactose in adulthood with the cultural innovation of keeping cattle and drinking their milk. This process has happened several times in the last 10,000 years, not to whole “races” but to tribes or larger groups that domesticated cattle.
    https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10376

    Jon Haidt is white supremist
    View story at Medium.com

  15. sorethumb

     /  January 13, 2018

    Guardian
    “But Haiti`s area is only slightly more than half of that of the Dominican Republic so that Haiti, with a larger population and smaller area, has double its neighbour`s population density.”

    Jarred Daimond
    “The combination of that higher population density and lower rainfall was the main factor behind the more rapid deforestation and loss of soil fertility on the Haitian side.”
    //
    “A second social and political factor is that the Dominican Republic – with its Spanish-speaking population of predominantly European ancestry – was both more receptive and more ­attractive to European immigrants and investors than was Haiti with its Creole-speaking population composed overwhelmingly of black former slaves.”
    //
    “Hence European immigration and investment were negligible and restricted by the constitution in Haiti after 1804 but eventually became important in the Dominican Republic. Those Dominican immigrants included many middle-class businesspeople and skilled professionals who contributed to the country`s development.”


    http://www.vdare.com/articles/why-haiti-is-so-hopeless-and-a-very-modest-proposal

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 13, 2018

      Good article, sorepaw. No wonder Trump is objecting to Obama’s “You breed ’em, we feed ’em” legacy. Just what America needs, more illiterate Voodoo adherents.

  16. artcroft

     /  January 13, 2018

    If the President of America can put a sign saying no people from shit hole countries on the gateway to America can shopkeepers put up signs saying “No shit hole’s in my shop – that includes blacks and hispanics?”

    • Gezza

       /  January 13, 2018

      Something Trump kept banging on about in that bipartisan meeting when he was criticising the lottery system was that “they’re not sending us their best people, they’re sending us the bad people they don’t want. They draw the numbers out themselves to make sure we get the bad ones!” Or words generally to that effect. And he keeps repeating this.

      I must admit I find that hard to believe. My understanding was you can apply yourself to go into the lottery but I’ve always assumed it’s a genuinely random selection, that US immigration officials ‘drew the numbers’ & that whoever was chosen would still have to have local police & FBI, & probably US security, checks.

      I never understood why they had a lottery system. Maybe it’s supposed to promote diversity but It always seemed silly to me. I might see if I can find out how selections are made & what the immigration check process is for these immigrants.

      There’s no doubt US immigration policy is a mess though, imo.

      • artcroft

         /  January 13, 2018

        In any case I’m sure we can both agree that Haitians and Salvadorians aren’t the real problem. What do they do but clean commercial premises and conduct drug business on street corners I would never be seen dead on.

        The Jews the problem. They don’t integrate. They’re all agents of a foreign power (Israel) and the have penetrated the financial system and gained power and wealth. Hollywood peddles all their ideas yet they answer only to the Knesset.

        If America needs a not welcome sign, it should say “No Jews Allowed”. This is not racist it is part of European tradition and history and therefore scared.

    • sorethumb

       /  January 13, 2018

      No because people leave shithole countries due to push factors. people enter shops due to pull factors.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 13, 2018

        Read Twitter ‘Moment’ for today-a long list of people from these shithole countries is there, with their qualifications and professions. They are better educated than Trump, better looking and more articulate-they’d be an asset to any country lucky enough to have them.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 13, 2018

          They give the lie to the idea that the ones coming are the dregs.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 13, 2018

      Yep. Since GW Bush I have made it a rule never to visit that country with such a fascist paranoid police state.

      • Gezza

         /  January 13, 2018

        It’s a fascist police shithole?

        • David

           /  January 13, 2018

          That would be racist….

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 13, 2018

          A fascist paranoid police state shit-hole with a dysfunctional politicised and corrupted legal system and bureaucracy to be more precise. Which is the main reason I sympathise with KDC’s resistance to being extradicted there for trial.

          • Gezza

             /  January 13, 2018

            Ok. You win Al.
            Can’t argue with that.
            Tweet that to Trumpy.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 13, 2018

            That was unbelievable ! If this writer had really overstayed by a day, why was nothing said at the time ? I read this when I was looking for something and was stunned-thank you for the link .

            Her treatment was inexcusable. Imagine not letting her go and buy tampons-the guard could have gone in for them ! How humiliating for a woman to put her through such a thing.

            What a nightmare for that poor girl.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              I expect that moving between time zones could well have led to this mistake-she wouldn’t be the first to make it.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 13, 2018

              Yes, LAX is pretty much renowned for being run by the worst obnoxious pricks on the planet.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              I have been there-talk about a holding pen. They didn’t seem to regard decor as a priority or making a good impression as being one, either. I suppose that they don’t really need to-what option does one have ?

              I haven’t encountered the obnoxious pricks, just ordinary up-yours rudeness. I remember one time at Heathrow when a man dropped an important looking bunch of keys-someone who worked there-and when I ran after him and gave them back, he grabbed them and glared at me as if it was my fault that he’d lost them-no ‘Thank you very much !’ from Mr Phallus-Impudicus (Latin for arrogant prick)

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              Well, perhaps not up yours-but asking about anything was treated as an imposition and the action of an idiot. One time on a North American airline I asked where we were-we were over the US, not over the sea where it might have been seen as a silly question-and was answered with a sneering look and ‘I have no idea…ma’am.’ (ma’am as in ‘you idiot.’) There’s nowt so queer as folks !

            • Gezza

               /  January 13, 2018

              God I have. I know what Al means. They were like bloody Stalag guards. All that was missing was the “Schnell, schnell, dumpopf!”

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 13, 2018

              I can believe it-a question about where to get a coffee or whatever it was was greeted as if it was the stupidest question imaginable and the news that there was nowhere open . Stop wasting my time, I’m not paid to be helpful to you dummkopfs. If you ask again, you will be shot.

  17. Patzcuaro

     /  January 13, 2018
  18. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 14, 2018

    BREAKING: Chaos as EFF invade H&M in protest
    Zuma booed during #ANC106 celebrations
    H&M stores are closed because they called our children baboons – Malema
    WATCH: EFF protest outside H&M, trash stores over ‘racist advert’WATCH
    Trevor Noah to Trump: As someone from South ****hole I’m offended

    Unintended irony – most read on SA News24