Pope on World Day of Migrants and Refugees

The Pope has spoken about immigration in a special mass for the World Day of Migrants and Refugees.

Reuters:  Fear and doubt should not determine response to immigrants, Pope says

Mutual fears between immigrants and their new communities are understandable, but must not prevent new arrivals from being welcomed and integrated, Pope Francis said on Sunday in a special Mass to mark the World Day of Migrants and Refugees.

“Local communities are sometimes afraid that the newly arrived will disturb the established order, will ”steal“ something they have long laboured to build up,” he said, while “the newly arrived … are afraid of confrontation, judgement, discrimination, failure.”

“Having doubts and fears is not a sin. The sin is to allow these fears to determine our responses, to limit our choices, to compromise respect and generosity, to feed hostility and rejection.”

…he said newcomers must “know and respect the laws, the culture and the traditions of the countries that take them in”.

Migration and immigration have been an essential part of human history. As the most isolated country in the world New Zealand has been totally reliant on immigration.

Some care has to be taken over the numbers and types of immigrants allowed to move here, but our isolation makes this relatively easy to control.

Hostility and rejection are impediments to a healthy society.

Communities, meanwhile, have “to open themselves without prejudices to (newcomers’) rich diversity, to understand the hopes and potential of the newly arrived as well as their fears and vulnerabilities”.

Communities here are generally open and welcoming to newcomers here, with only isolated attacks and a bit of moaning on the sidelines.

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60 Comments

  1. sorethumb

     /  January 15, 2018

    The Pope is just a bot (a formula man)
    History’s lesson: Diversity without unity leads to chaos
    Emphasizing diversity has been the pitfall, not the strength, of nations throughout history.

    The Roman Empire worked as long as Iberians, Greeks, Jews, Gauls and myriad other African, Asian and European communities spoke Latin, cherished habeas corpus and saw being Roman as preferable to identifying with their own particular tribe. By the fifth century, diversity had won out but would soon prove a fatal liability.
    https://www.adn.com/opinions/national-opinions/2016/08/24/historys-lesson-diversity-without-unity-leads-to-chaos/

    “And I always thought what was happening in the opposition of politics (of course they would oppose National, that’s their job actually apart from everything else) but it was a bit negative about our place in the world. So we played a bit about whether people coming here was a good or bad thing whether people should invest here was a good or bad thing, or whether we have a trade agreement with parts of Asia was a good or bad thing, but actually in my mind, the reason that I want to say yes to those things is because they are the opportunities that reflect our opportunities to both get wealthier (which is all about what you can do with that money) and then ultimately the opportunities for Kiwis. I’d like New Zealanders to feel (after my time as Prime Minister) they have become more confident outward looking nation more multicultural.”
    John Key to John Campbell

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  January 15, 2018

      It’s a pattern all Right. Violent, repressive military ‘occupation’ tends to have the desired effect for a while … before indigenous populations inevitable assert their sovereignty again …

      Reply
    • David

       /  January 15, 2018

      It’s funny, but you never see anyone demanding that Africa or Asia need more diversity. Where are the white faces in those parts of the world?

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  January 15, 2018

        They live in secure enclaves and gated communities, often with armed security guards and/or drivers, and they work in air-conditioned central city high-rise offices, equally secure …

        They are the bosses … the money-power elite … the exploiter-class …

        It’s not about “needing” more diversity, it’s about Western ‘want’ … White people aren’t going to travel to Africa, India, Pakistan or SE Asia to work in sweatshops, are they?

        Reply
        • David

           /  January 15, 2018

          “They are the bosses … the money-power elite … the exploiter-class …”

          In Asia and Africa? I think your deluded if you believe this.

          “White people aren’t going to travel to Africa, India, Pakistan or SE Asia to work in sweatshops, are they?”

          Racist to think all Asia and Africa have to offer is sweatshops don’t you think?

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  January 15, 2018

            “Racist” how?

            And how am I saying “all Asia and Africa have to offer is sweatshops”? Do you mean because I mentioned sweatshops? If so, let’s pronounce communication dead as of now, shall we?

            Asia and Africa have to offer us what we ‘want’, almost exclusively provided on our terms. Hence the regional offices of Western corporates are largely CEO’d and upper-management-staffed and ‘advised’ by Whites … whether we’re buying their cheap rent, cheap labour and cheap resources or selling them Coca Cola, Pepsi, McDonalds and Kentucky Fried … aka “lifting them out of poverty” …

            They also offer us sweat-rate, cut-price tourism, a form of cultural exploitation harking back to the great English upper-class traditions of ‘discovery’, ‘exploration’, artifact collecting and ‘trophy hunting’ …

            Anything, in fact, so that we can avoid looking at the similarities between our ‘primitive-but-slightly-more-sophisticated, militarized, war-mongering’ conquest culture and their ‘primitive warrior’ conquest culture …

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  January 15, 2018

              What’s holding African countries back from improving living conditions for more of their people than educated middle classes and elites is corruption & tribalist cultures – the two usually being intertwined. Their own educated young people are the ones complaining most about this these days.

              Sure, Western countries, China, Israel, take advantage of it by exploiting the fact their politicians are for sale.

              But they can’t fix their problems until they abandon their age old tribalism. It’s why so many educated young Africans head to Western countries to work. They say they’re just so frustrated with being unable to change things back home.

  2. sorethumb

     /  January 15, 2018

    Migration and immigration have been an essential part of human history. As the most isolated country in the world New Zealand has been totally reliant on immigration.
    ……
    What is meant by “reliant on immigration?”

    Cargo cult mentality – there are always better people than the local population.

    Ian harrison models a land based economy too distant to be a major manufacturing center. As a result:

    Real wages will fall
     Owners of land will benefit
     There will be an outflow of ‘native’ labour in search of higher wages in Australia
     The economy will be bigger, but average incomes will fall
     Resources will flow into low value service production.
    http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/TheSuperdiversityMyth.pdf

    Reddell Hypothesis
    it is important to pay attention to the characteristics of individual
    country experiences, and the possible role of combinations of circumstances. In
    New Zealand, migration policy has made a large difference to population growth,
    throughout history and over the past 20 years.

    In the late 19th century and early 20th century, immigration to New Zealand could be seen
    as reflecting a favourable shock to the tradable sector. Opening up new lands to
    production, falling transport costs, refrigerated shipping combined to lift the population
    capacity of New Zealand while still offering high wages and high rates of return.

    By the middle of the 20th century, New Zealand was settled and producing, and
    technological change in the key export sectors was no longer as rapid (relative to other
    producers). The factor price equalisation justification for strong population growth had
    dissipated, yet population growth remained high. Across the OECD, there is some
    evidence that rapid population growth in post-war advanced countries was associated with
    143
    an apparent cost to per capita growth rates.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2014/14-10

    Reply
  3. sorethumb

     /  January 15, 2018

    Philippines birth control: Filipinos want it, priests don’t
    http://www.latimes.com/world/population/la-fg-population-matters5-20120729-html-htmlstory.html

    Like hundreds of thousands of other families across the Philippines, Marilyn’s children had largely grown up without their parents. Raised by their aunt, they went to school, rode bikes and played football with their friends, while Marilyn and her husband Arnulfo cooked, cleaned and drove cars for other families thousands of miles away in Saudi Arabia, sending the money they earned back home.
    //
    The family’s desperate search for Marilyn ended in a morgue in the Saudi Arabian capital, Riyadh, over a year later. Arnulfo, who was working in Saudi as a driver for a different wealthy family, received a phone call asking him to come and identify a body. The Marilyn he had known was robust and strong. When he pulled back the sheet, he found little more than skin and bones.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/oct/24/the-vanished-filipino-domestic-workers-working-abroad

    Reply
  4. Pickled Possum

     /  January 15, 2018

    The Pope exhaling us to open our hearts, our homes, our land, our way of life,
    To any fucking body, so we can be diluted to the wishy washy fucking ideology that runs rampant in the catholic occult.
    Sorry Francis! look after your own before to tell us what to do!

    Reply
  5. David

     /  January 15, 2018

    Funnily enough we dont see many migrants being welcomed in to the Vatican, maybe call out to his Argentenian home country and get them to take 1 or 2 migrants Maybe the Pope might like to clear up his own backyard and may be try something really radical like treating men and women the same way.
    Best Pope they have had for a while though if you believe in all that nonsense.

    Reply
    • Lets see women as priests and then a Pope before we listen to his epistles on this please

      Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 15, 2018

      David you’re clearly unaware that Argentina has committed to taking at least 3,000 Syrian refugees and was the first country in the world to help the EU manage the Syrian refugee crisis.

      Argentina has also granted 1,000 university scholarships to young women, ages 18 through 34, who are Syrian refugees. The scholarships will grant the women humanitarian visas to Argentina and eventually allow them to register as citizens.

      It seems that the pope’s backyard is not as shabby as your fake claims would have us think.

      Reply
  6. Corky

     /  January 15, 2018

    Nice words. Great sentiments.. However immigrant communities in Europe paint a different picture. We have every right to fear Muslims who want Sharia law in their new country. In Britain that is 30 plus percent of Muslims.

    I know the Pope has a job to do. And kudos to him for kicking arse in the Catholic hierarchy.
    But ordinary folk like me have a job to do too- using rational ‘evidence based’ thought and moan from the sideline about the train wreck heading our way,

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  January 15, 2018

      Correction: The train wreck has already arrived.

      Reply
    • George

       /  January 15, 2018

      When the old codger get’s out from behind the Vatican walls and the protection of his private army and into the ordinary everyday life of his ‘subjects’ then he can have a say.
      Oh and have women priests and priests that can marry.
      Should cut back the pedo problem.
      And look after their followers in those ‘s hole’ countries we’re hearing about

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  January 15, 2018

        That’s absolutely anyone who wants to have a say about absolutely anything utterly f#*ked eh George!?

        What are all us hyprocrites doing on here having a say about everything …

        Are any of us morally irreproachable?

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  January 15, 2018

          Elites don’t suffer the consequences of the Utopian dream – Victor Davis Hansen
          http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=1E27606A-CA5C-9A61-06BA-1D96F4285A37
          Flying business class of course.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  January 15, 2018

            Can’t say I understand the relationship between your comment and the article?

            Being positive about the inevitable seems vaguely logical, realistic and sensible to me …

            Did Ludwig, Milton, Ronald, Margaret, Roger, Ruth or anyone else seriously think ‘globalisation’ was going to be one-sided? We wanted their robot-built cars, sweatshop-made clothes, baubles & trinkets and guess what comes along with it … Them …

            Maori sovereignty rights must be encapsulated in a Te Tiriti-based written Constitution asap …

            Reply
            • sorethumb

               /  January 15, 2018

              Maori sovereignty rights must be encapsulated in a Te Tiriti-based written Constitution asap …
              ……
              The devil will be in the detail

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 15, 2018

              Only if you call reduction-in-racial-privilege pain and honouring-promises pain ‘the devil’ sorethumb …

              Wounds become inflamed in order to heal …

  7. PartisanZ

     /  January 15, 2018

    They could maybe have Gibbs Farm and other similar ‘estates’ …?

    A giant evolving ‘installation’ sculpture entitled ‘FavellaNZ’ rambling up the hill to meet Anish Kapoor’s ‘Dismemberment. Site 1’ (so aptly named) …

    The sewage ponds are already in place …

    http://gibbsfarm.org.nz/kapoor.php

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  January 15, 2018

      All you need to know is what happens when you add more labour to a land based economy.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  January 15, 2018

        Well we certainly already know what happens when you constantly wring more private capital value from it, don’t we? … see above … Gibbs Farm …

        “The ‘Latifundia’, the holding of large estates, that marked evil of Roman and later times, are not made more moral by being practiced by peoples instead of individuals … it is the most grievous of wrongs to shut off a community from the soil which belongs to all.” (Warner)

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  January 15, 2018

          Gibbs Farm in no ways cancels out
           Owners of land will benefit
           There will be an outflow of ‘native’ labour in search of higher wages in Australia
           The economy will be bigger, but average incomes will fall
           Resources will flow into low value service production.
          http://www.tailrisk.co.nz/documents/TheSuperdiversityMyth.pdf

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  January 15, 2018

            “Will” … WTF is it with “will” … ?

            All these things already “have” happened …

            … have been happening for 34 years …

            It’s what ‘we’ collectively wanted, insomuch as this THING we loosely call ‘democracy’ is an expression of ‘we’ …

            Reply
  8. “Communities here are generally open and welcoming to newcomers here, with only isolated attacks and a bit of moaning on the sidelines.”

    Living in Auckland and travelling as I do, I think I can safely say we have one of the most diverse and inclusive communities in the entire world. The difference between AKL and the South Island is so palpable it’s always commented on by locals and tourists alike. I love it and much prefer what we have, to the WASPishness further south.

    My opinions on monitoring migration are in large based on these factors:

    1): Wishing to maintain and advance the freedom of expression, sexual equality and increasing secularity we in the West have fought tooth and nail for and still are doing.

    2):The West offers a vastly superior societal structure and financial enhancement to refugees and migrants. We offer the freedom to practice their beliefs and most embrace the nature of this inclusiveness and they in turn, enhance our tolerance. It’s part of our liberal conscience to protect the rights of minorities, but that doesn’t mean we need to protect and defend all of their beliefs as well. Many of which are just as illiberal and abhorrent as the beliefs of Christian fundamentalists. Increasingly there are demands for protection against criticism, the labelling of any criticism of beliefs as “hate speech”.

    3) Believing chain link migration, bride fetching etc should be subject to tougher restrictions, i.e immediate family only. Also that parental migration means children retain private health care of parents. I see abuse of this daily and know it to be a massive resource drain.

    Over all I believe that literal fundamentalism, the misogynist treatment of women and lack of integration starting to take root in some suburbs can only be defeated by standing up for our liberal values and a very strong (non-existent this far) civics education.

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  January 15, 2018

      Living in Auckland and travelling as I do, I think I can safely say we have one of the most diverse and inclusive communities in the entire world. The difference between AKL and the South Island is so palpable it’s always commented on by locals and tourists alike. I love it and much prefer what we have, to the WASPishness further south.
      ……
      There is no accounting for taste
      At the summit, we eat our packed lunch looking out over the mountains of Fiordland. A South Island robin hops up, as if to demonstrate the fearlessness of New Zealand birdlife, and sits watching us from within arm’s reach.
      That evening, I meet Julia Wolfrum, a nurse from Hamburg, in the campsite kitchen. She has just completed the Kepler Trail, one of New Zealand’s Great Walks, a set of government-maintained hiking trails in the country.
      “The isolation and silence are magic,” Wolfrum says. “When you’re hiking, all alone, and it’s getting dark, you imagine things. It’s like a fairy tale sometimes. The nature makes you feel like a child again.”
      Up the road in Queenstown, nature is in full flight.
      Queenstown advertises itself as “The Adventure Capital of the World,” where you can bungy jump, heli-ski, jet-boat, or sky-dive. The confines of the modest town can no longer accommodate the throng of thrill-seekers. Soaring mountains still fringe the lake, but condos are creeping along the shore, a snake of traffic clogs the road into town, and Louis Vuitton has set up shop along with Global Culture, a clothes store.
      If your idea of a holiday is a seething mass of cars and people, topped off by a cacophony of helicopters, Queenstown may be for you. Otherwise, it serves only as a warning of the perils of overdevelopment.
      “Queenstown used to be nice, but it’s a mess, now,” Verduyn says, as we continue our trip down the Upper Clutha. “We don’t want to get like that.”
      He points out a bunker-like private dwelling atop a bluff, and shakes his head.
      “It was a disaster to put that building in there,” he says. “People from all over the world are coming here seeking a wilderness, a sanctuary. The worst-case scenario is that we damage the environment, which brings people to New Zealand in the first place.”
      Leigh Turner is a freelance writer in Berlin. 

      http://www.boston.com/travel/articles/2004/11/07/new_zealand_at_a_crossroads/

      Reply
      • I’m talking communities in our livable cities and there’s not too many new migrants who head to Fiordland to raise a family.

        I love travelling to beautiful landscapes, but that is not what I am talking about.

        Reply
        • sorethumb

           /  January 15, 2018

          The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment’s (MBIE) Community Perceptions Report suggests New Zealanders and migrants are mixing less and forming fewer friendships than in the past.
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/321789/nzers-not-mixing-with-new-migrants-enough-community-group
          Diversity is the inverse of social cohesion.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  January 15, 2018

            Your first para should be in quotation marks. Here’s the very next paragraph –

            “Auckland’s Ethnic Council president Dinesh Tailor said he hadn’t seen any decline in interaction, although he acknowledged more could be done.”

            And the piece ends, “Professor Spoonley said it was important migrants were welcomed, and New Zealanders were encouraged to interact with them.”

            Maybe your ‘inversity’ is about the dehesion of society … ?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  January 15, 2018

              God knows how much it cost to find out that ..useless information.

  9. Joe Bloggs

     /  January 15, 2018

    Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 15, 2018

      Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 15, 2018

      Reply
    • Joe Bloggs

       /  January 15, 2018

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  January 15, 2018

        One poor model from Slovenia (described by a “liberal” as “not exactly the jewel of Europe, is it?)” did ok for herself. You just need to marry the right moron.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  January 15, 2018

          The poor liberal in question accepted an invitation & appeared on Fox News for a savaging.

          Reply
  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 15, 2018

    The devil is in this detail:

    …he said newcomers must “know and respect the laws, the culture and the traditions of the countries that take them in”.

    How do we ensure this?

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  January 15, 2018

      Upon our arrival here, and throughout our colonial history, how did Pakeha do at “know and respect the laws, the culture and the traditions of the countries that take them in” …?

      It wouldn’t work the other way around if we felt – for reasons such as cataclysmic natural disaster or war – the absolute need to migrate to any of the places you Righties call *shitholes* …

      We’d almost certainly just invade and occupy them … installing our culture and traditions …

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 15, 2018

        Upon our arrival here, and throughout our colonial history, how did Pakeha do at “know and respect the laws, the culture and the traditions of the countries that take them in” …?

        Married them but shot them when necessary, PZ. What would you have done?

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  January 15, 2018

          A mocking, universally derogatory response-question entirely unworthy of a reply Alan …

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 15, 2018

            Not in the slightest derogatory. Far more got married than shot – in both directions. And those married engaged in the usual marital give and take in order to reconcile each other’s cultures and families with the usual varying degrees of success and family rivalries.

            Reply
          • Joe Bloggs

             /  January 15, 2018

            “A mocking, universally derogatory response” that’s par for the course for our resident troll

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 15, 2018

              No answer then, Joe? Par for your course.

        • Corky

           /  January 15, 2018

          ” Now look, Chaps. My name is Party Z. When you noble savages have stopped
          slaughtering each other, I would like to apologise on behalf of Pakeha for disrespecting the intrinsic values of your great warrior race. I find indeed your concept of ownership by conquest interesting. We have this jolly nuisance Westminster system of law thing. Checks and bloody balances before you can do anything. Jolly Hockey stick, none that nave nonsense here… what? ”

          I say! Those stones are red hot. This may be an opportune time to learn more about this religious rite you call a ‘hangi.’ 😃

          Reply
      • They didn’t and look what happened to the Maori culture, it was very nearly subsumed by the migrants. This will not be any different in places like Germany where trauma, the lack of an education past a primary level in the main, being mainly male and unable to find partners or work must be factored in.

        Did you know that a year ago only one in eight refugees of the 1.3 million who have been allowed into Germany during the past two years are enrolled in work training programs. There is evidence to suggest the situation is now worse — Federal Employment Agency

        https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/only-one-in-eight-refugees-find-jobs-in-germany-1.2869106

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  January 15, 2018

          Exactly my point traveller. Pakeha [Europeans] didn’t and wouldn’t and won’t “know and respect the laws, the culture and the traditions of” ‘The Other’ …

          Why do we expect immigrants to do so … ?

          One sees so many Muslim men on the streets at all hours of the day in Arab world countries. A quick google search reveals that what we call unemployment is high in AW countries, especially among youth …

          However I can’t find out how the unemployed survive under such conditions …? Do they have ‘benefits’ in AW countries? Do people turn to crime like they do here?

          Muslim education and employment statistics are all measured by Western standards, couched in Western ideolodgy* and reported in Western [English] terminology …

          https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Education_and_Employment#Middle_East

          Was a 1950s Kiwi stay-at-home Mum considered “unemployed”?

          *ideolodgy – new word # 128 = ideology + dodgy
          *dodgeology – #129 might work too except for the ‘geology’ implication?

          Reply
        • Blazer

           /  January 15, 2018

          did you know that in Canada the average foreign property owner paid less in tax than a…refugee.

          Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  January 15, 2018

          Of course Maori culture has been largely subsumed by the migrants. The migrants brought a world of knowledge, art, science, religion and philosophy that it completely lacked.

          Get real.

          Reply
          • Pickled Possum

             /  January 15, 2018

            Oh Al you forgot about all the other things migrants brought like …

            venereal diseases gonorrhoea syphilis, measles, influenza,
            typhoid fever, dysentery, tuberculosis.

            Not forgetting alcohol tobacco and the ultimate peace maker, the gun.

            They also brought greedy men who through the purchase of land backed by Maori land court accumulated land and changed the way of Maori life.
            Lost their language their diet their tikanga their unique way of their life..

            They also brought pneumonia and respiratory infections which affected the Maori children greatly.
            They brought vaccines, school sores, paedophilia, banks and fraud.

            It has been said the Maori population halved between 1840-1890 and declined ever since.

            My goodness Al keep they should have keep their “world of knowledge, art, science, religion and philosophy” and sailed on over to Australia .. oh yea that’s right they did.

            Reply
  11. Zedd

     /  January 15, 2018

    Francis (the jesuit) has only ‘one mission’ to finally end the counter-reformation started by ‘his order’ (in 16th century ?) & get all ‘God fearing people of the world’ back under the ‘RCCs authority’ (POWER !!)

    He might come across as a ‘nice gentle guy’ but lift the mask & who really knows what lies beneath (read book of Daniel: ‘the AntiChrist is in Rome’). Many compared the last one (Benedict) with the ‘Evil Sith Emperor in Star Wars’ 😦
    oh dear !!

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  January 15, 2018

      Really Zedd? So its a conspiracy of epic proportions? (To add to all the other conspiracy theories) ………. How do you know this?

      Where do the Illuminati fit into it?

      Anyhow, look, to “get all ‘God fearing people of the world’ back under the ‘RCCs authority’ (POWER !!)” is one hell of an uphill battle if you ask me … let alone the majority in many countries like Aotearoa NZ who neither believe in nor fear God any longer …

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  January 15, 2018

        What’s more important, IMHO, is the question: How much political power do the RCC still wield?

        For example: What influence might they be having on policy like cannabis law reform and End-of-Life-Choice?

        We partially know the answer to the latter. The select committee chaired by Priest-school dropout Simon O’Connor found 80% of New Zealanders [submitters] opposed EoLC, whereas a random Poll of electors found 74% in favour …

        Reply
      • Zedd

         /  January 15, 2018

        @PZ

        Really Zedd? So its a conspiracy of epic proportions ?

        So-called ‘conspiracy theories’ are being labeled as ‘fiction by nutters etc.’ BUT theres another saying; ‘Where there’s smoke, there is usually fire”

        There was a time when USA was seen as a ‘Protestant nation’ but 3 USA presidents attended Pope JP2 funeral (Clinton, Bush Snr & Jnr).
        I saw an interview.. when GW Bush was asked what he saw when he looked into the Pope eyes.. he replied “GOD”

        So.. if your asking If ‘its a conspiracy of epic proportions ?’
        Id say….. ‘Entirely possible’ 😀

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  January 15, 2018

      You are reading too much Dan Brown, Zedd. But I would love the Vatican to open their vaults. They have many scientific discoverers confiscated over the centuries because they contradicted church doctrine.

      Reply

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