Open Forum – Friday

26 January 2018

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44 Comments

  1. David

     /  January 26, 2018

    “There is less arable land than 40 years ago, even though global food production will need to increase by 50 per cent by 2050 to feed a population of ten billion,” Shaw said.

    “In New Zealand, three quarters of native fish, one-third of invertebrates, and one-third of plants are threatened with, or at risk of, extinction.

    “Just eight men own as much wealth between them as the 3.6 billion people in the world do collectively.

    From our new Minister of Statistics James Shaw, imagine being a hard working Stats employee striving to provide accurate data and your boss comes up with this nonsense. Imagine using Oxfam as your source, the people who 20 days after 2017 ended managed to collate all the wealth creation of the previous 12 months with some quite incredible accuracy.

  2. Corky

     /  January 26, 2018

    Apparently the French have gone crazy.The price of Nutella had been slashed by 70%, sparking chaos as shoppers engaged in punchups trying to buy their favourite discounted spread.

    I cant stand the stuff. But it has an interesting history, and a massive fan base.

    https://frenchcrazy.com/2011/08/nutella.html/

  3. Corky

     /  January 26, 2018

    There’s a great post by Tess on this link. The exact same thing I have been talking about is happening at a school I’ve been involved with for over twenty years. Our national identity is dying.

    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/01/whaleoil-general-debate-1312/

    • duperez

       /  January 26, 2018

      Demographic changes over 40 years in our city have seen some schools which were once high decile ones with communities largely of managers, business owners, and professional people, change dramatically. If that is a problem, what should have happened along the way to se it not happen?
      What should have happened, could have happened in the the school you are involved with to see it have the same sort of character in 2018 as it had in 1968 and 1978?

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 26, 2018

        Aside from duperez’s most reasonable questions, who can possibly take Tess’s Mum-in-Law’s retweet … sorry … re-troll … seriously?

        Do you really expect “one” to believe her/its class photos are all from the same school?

        Isn’t Tess’s Mum-in-Law head cheerleader for some White Supremacist social media lynch-mob?

        Our national identity is changing. Like it did in circa 1350 … 1769, 1800-ish, 1840, 1852, 1867 …. 1935 … 1975, 1984, 1990 … and every other year …

        • Corky

           /  January 26, 2018

          ”Do you really expect “one” to believe her/its class photos are all from the same school?”

          Fair point. However, read my post.

          ”Isn’t Tess’s Mum-in-Law head cheerleader for some White Supremacist social media lynch-mob?”

          Doesn’t matter. Whether the photos are part of an agenda or not, what they show is literally happening right across Europe and in New Zealand at the school I mentioned.

          ”Our national identity is changing. Like it did in circa 1350 … 1769, 1800-ish, 1840, 1852, 1867 …. 1935 … 1975, 1984, 1990 … and every other year ”

          This didn’t occur in past years- having 60 plus percent of a classroom identifiable as immigrants of short or long standing. I was at school during some of the years you mention. Nothing like what is happening now ever occurred.

          But then I forget. National Identity isn’t important to Lefties. How can it be when Lefties hate Western values and the great things our culture stands for. Lefties would rather support malcontents from shithole countries. Muslims and Palestinians for example.

          • Gezza

             /  January 26, 2018

            I dunno whether you can conclude all Lefties hate Western values and have no sense of National Identity. I know a few who strongly support both. Do you think you might have a tendency to take any people with views or ideas you don’t like & plonk them into a box you label Lefties?

          • PartisanZ

             /  January 26, 2018

            Spot on Gezza …

            Corky, don’t tell me I hate “Western values and the great things our culture stands for” … That’s pure BullShit … I love the great things … the great parts of our culture, of which there are many …

            But don’t expect me to also love and support the corrupt, putrified, corpulent, dishonest and repellent parts as well, just because it’s supposedly some fictitious ‘our’ culture … If its ‘ours’ and has all this ‘oneness’ and integrity, why are we talking in terms of Righties and Lefties? Kiwis and immigrants? All your other polarisations …?

            If it’s as polarised as you make it out to be, when did that start? Te Tiriti o Waitangi? The Russian revolution of 1917? Post-War British immigration? Rural Maori urbanizing? Pacific Islanders?

            I started Primary School in central suburban Auckland in 1961 at a school with roughly the same percentage of Pakeha & Maori as the general population.

            By the time I left in 1968 we’d had several Polynesian students, more Maori, a Lebanese refugee, at least two Indians and some others of ‘diversity’ … plus recently arrived POMMIES … and still more diversity was present at my much larger Intermediate in the early 70s …

            What’s happening now may be exaggerated … partly because population numbers have increased … but to claim it’s ‘new’ is diabolical *CRAP* … along with “immigrants of long standing” …

            I’m an immigrant of long standing … Ngati Tiriti …

        • duperez

           /  January 26, 2018

          The school photos on the (now gone) Old Friends site showed the sort of thing which Tess showed. The demographic changes over years were there to be seen. Societies evolve meaning the symbols of them change.
          The point of the post on WO was likely that things were better when things were as they used to be. Maybe some Maori would say for all the advantages which came it would have been better if the white man didn’t come. Maybe it’s the white man (or woman) who is complaining that the brown people have come.

          The reality of recognising the changes, young people’s exposure to them and what they mean in practical terms are illustrated by some stark statistics. Education Review Office reports show the make-up of school rolls. The children of Avondale (Auckland) and Medbury (Christchurch) see totally different New Zealands.

          Numbers are at the end of the reports:
          http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/avondale-primary-school-auckland-16-11-2015/
          http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/chilton-st-james-school-01-08-2017/
          http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/medbury-preparatory-school-06-09-2013/
          http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/waihi-school-30-06-2011/
          http://www.ero.govt.nz/review-reports/the-cathedral-grammar-school-15-12-2016/

  4. Zedd

     /  January 26, 2018

    I see on the Green party website they are to have a ‘special general meeting’ in April, to elect a new female co-leader (replace Metiria). I have heard all sorts of hints/rumors, but it is doubtful Chloe or Golriz (newest MPs) will be in the running.. but having said that.. anything is possible ! 🙂

    • PDB

       /  January 26, 2018

      Anybody with a spine would be an improvement over James Shaw.

      • Zedd

         /  January 26, 2018

        @pdb

        actually I hear it James Shaw as Leader, that gave the Greens the credibility to see them finally get into Govt. & be offered ministerial roles.
        Lab. & NZF MPs respect him, even if you dont !!

  5. Pickled Possum

     /  January 26, 2018
    • PDB

       /  January 26, 2018

      More nonsense that focuses solely on the ‘gap’ between a few rich people and the rest rather than focusing on lifting the rest up, which has been done with great success in recent decades.

      • PartisanZ

         /  January 26, 2018

        Some proportion of that ‘gap’, possibly a large percentage, represents the unpaid wages of ‘the rest’ plus the unacknowledged social responsibility of the few …

        • PartisanZ

           /  January 26, 2018

          … so how are the rest ever supposed to obtain it? It’s gone to the few …

  6. PartisanZ

     /  January 26, 2018

    He’s an excellent researcher & writer this Paul Buchheit guy … here’s his ‘Overwhelming Evidence that a ‘Guaranteed Basic Income’ Will Work’ …

    https://wakeup-world.com/2016/09/07/overwhelming-evidence-that-a-guaranteed-basic-income-will-work/

  7. PartisanZ

     /  January 26, 2018

    And … “5 Signs of a Dying Society” …

    https://wakeup-world.com/2016/02/26/signs-of-a-dying-society/

    While NZ “punches above our weight”, the United States leads the world in some areas …

  8. Gezza

     /  January 26, 2018

    One of our regulars posted yesterday “I don’t believe in evolution. It’s one of many mainstay science theories that is crap.”

    Despite the fact that the evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection has only ever got consistently stronger & is supported by multiple lines of evidence from genetics, chemistry, palaeontology – including biological organism morphology & vestigial traits – embyology, the fossil record (continually being added to with intermediate forms once argued to be missing) species distribution conforming to known landmass movement over eons, species evolution having actually being observed, and now, finally genome sequencing removing all reasonable doubt, there are still a few plonkers, who don’t understand genetic coding & the processes of dna mutation, & who contend this &/or all the other supporting evidence for the evolution of all living organisms from a common ancestor is just wrong.

    To be fair, it’s hard for non-biologists to understand precisely how dna mutations occur & cause evolution, & eventually speciation in great detail, & these prats like complex things to be simple, so they prefer to listen to simpletons who often spot something that seems so complex they can’t account for how it came to be because they just don’t understand where evolution theory actually is nowadays.

    Though there are good, detailed documentaries which make it simple enuf for most people nowadays to grasp the essentials without having to read scientific papers & become experts – if anything attracts the attention of these plonkers it’ll be the confused bs put out by fruitcakes.

    None of these disbelievers seem to have any viable demonstrable alternative explanation for speciation beyond the Biblical Goddidit hypothesis. As this hypothesis is hopeless & even most reasonably-well educated Christians (including the occupants of the Vatican & their flock) accept EBNS because the evidence it’s correct is so overwhelming, I’d be very interested to hear any alternative theory & the evidence for it that any others might have on the origin of species.

    • phantom snowflake

       /  January 26, 2018

      Wondering if you’ve (had the misfortune to) come across “Young Earth Creationism.” Basically its central claim is that The Bible, which is literally correct on all matters, documents that God created The Earth within the last 10,000 years. Some of my whanau have got it down to 5,000 years! Geological features which appear to have taken millions of years to form are explained away simply. A random example; The Grand Canyon. Scientists have claimed that it took from 6 to 70 million years to form; “Young Earthers” know that God made it, just as it is, very recently.
      (Disclaimer. Like Corky I reserve the right to disagree with some accepted, mainstream science

      • Gezza

         /  January 26, 2018

        I’ve had the good fortune to come across them, snowy 😀
        I like them a lot. They give me lots of smiles.

        • phantom snowflake

           /  January 26, 2018

          LOL! Try this one. (Paraphrased a little.)

          HE: People who hear voices are not mentally ill. They are possessed by demons.
          ME: But in some cases anti-psychotic medication can cause the ‘voices’ to completely stop. Are the demons so weak that a chemical can wipe them out?
          HE: Once the person has started taking medication they will be addicted and enslaved to it; the demon’s job is done and they can now move on to another person.
          ME: But..But… *SPLUTTER*

  9. phantom snowflake

     /  January 26, 2018

    Local Twitterati responds to Rocket Lab:

    Te Kawa Robb‏ @tekawa_robb

    Pō mārie to everyone, except those that think it’s ok to fire rockets into Ranginui and leave junk up amongst our tupuna, rockets part-funded by a US military corporation that profits off the oppression in indigenous people and the destruction of their sacred land.
    12:26 AM – 25 Jan 2018

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 26, 2018

      Groan.

    • Corky

       /  January 26, 2018

      ZZZZZ…another Leftie Maori moaning about rockets while driving a clapped out jap import with three different spare tyres and one proper one attached. Truth be told, it was probably one of my cuzzies.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 26, 2018

        Probably the same one that think’s it’s ok to chuck their empty kina shells into the grass for kids and me to stand on.

    • Gezza

       /  January 26, 2018

      Lots of folk complaining about it. Should be coming down in about 9 months & designed to burn up in the atmosphere. Looking forward to seeing it, sounds like it’ll be easy to spot from 20 Feb.

  10. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 26, 2018

    Had to drive to Haruru Falls today through traffic consisting mainly of drivers not fit to push a pram and obviously with an IQ tending towards single figures. Can’t wait for self-driving cars that will be infinitely more intelligent than the average bear behind the wheel this weekend..

    So no doubt these are the folk who are afraid of a sparkly ball landing on their heads.

    • PartisanZ

       /  January 26, 2018

      IMHO the result of all traffic-related measures ranging from massive 4 – 6 lane motorway constructions to special ‘pedestrian friendly’ 20 or 30kph safety zones is an overall slowing of traffic speed … even if the flow-rate is marginally improved …

      Example: All-but the newest, furthest out parts of the North-Western motorway in Auckland are now 80kph maximum …

      I recently drove Auckland-Hamilton and never reached 100kph. Nor did any of the traffic I was part of. I probably exceeded 80kph for about 10 mins max of the whole journey which took way longer than I expected …

      Also, all historic traffic-related measures have tended towards greater rather than lesser ‘centralised’ control … more signs, signals and controlled intersections … on-ramp ‘stop, go’ lights etc etc et al ad infinitum …

      To believe a system like this can be substantively altered by ‘autonomous units’ of self-drive car is conservative ‘magical thinking’ on a grand new scale of futility I reckon.

      I predict a) It will never actually happen [for a variety of reasons ie inequality] or b) self-drive traffic will flow smoother and be safer … at around 15 – 25kph max in urban areas and 45 – 60kph on the ‘open road’ … and consequently further slow and infuriate the inevitable remaining human drivers. [How is the Inverted Totalitarian State going to force poor people to buy self-drives?]

      … People will be cheering when they get to go 80kph … and they’ll be passengers in buses still driven by other human drivers …

      Self-drive cars aren’t going to be intelligent … they’re going to be programmed …

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 26, 2018

        I’m inclined to fear you may be mostly right on this, PZ. But maybe there will be pockets of rebellion where anarchistic individualism can survive the dead hand of socialist bureaucracy over the masses. Just maybe.

        • PartisanZ

           /  January 26, 2018

          You’d like free-for-all roads as well as housing markets Alan …?

          If you wipe someone else off the road and kill them … no worries … just carry on …

          … do whatever speed you like … if you think you can make it across an intersection … go for it!

          Totalitarian bureaucracy has been a “dead hand” over the masses in some ways, under some regimes like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, China and N.Korea etc … although one must remember Tzar Nicholas was no Saint … indeed, a more bloodthirsty, despotic autocratic ‘leader’ may never have lived …

          … but democratically elected social(ist) bureaucracy is actually a healthy expression of “the living hand” of Mankind … of care and restraint … whereas anarchistic individualism, as the names imply, lacks the crucial elements of forethought, regard and empathy … the things that provide us with safety … the very things, arguably, which make us human …

          Artificial Intelligence ain’t never gonna have that … Governed as they will inevitably be by the false logic of money, the roads will become like slow trains of countless bumper-to-bumper, self-and-other-drive ‘units’ with a gas-guzzling engine attached to every air-conditioned, single-person compartment …. controlled in every way … a blatant expression of absolute and complete, unrestrained cultural insanity ..

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 26, 2018

            I’ve always figured that self-preservation was a powerful incentive to avoid wiping anyone else off the road, PZ. It does require a functioning brain of course.

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 26, 2018

              There’s something to be said for that, I’ll admit …

              Trials in Netherlands or Belgium years ago removed all traffic controls from intersections in a town somewhere and the accident rates at those intersections plummeted apparently …

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 27, 2018

              Mind you … thinking about that … driverless cars aren’t going to make autonomous decisions at uncontrolled intersections, are they? They won’t be capable of it?

              Sensible ‘Leftie’, Green sustainable response: Don’t pursue driverless cars any further. Pursue instead buses, including mini-buses and large articulated buses – even ‘bus-trains’ – and trains operating in dedicated lanes or on dedicated carriageways or tracks …

              Rightie, unsustainable, culturally insane ‘money-go-round’ response: Make every single intersection including every driveway exit into a controlled intersection …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  January 27, 2018

              Uncontrolled intersections could just implement a first in : first right of way rule for autonomous vehicles.