Open Forum – Tuesday

30 January 2018

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81 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  January 30, 2018

    I missed the name, but I believe it was the chap who is sponsoring the bill to remove reference s to Christ and the Queen from our parliamentary prayer.

    This chap said words to the affect of :’ Islam is the fastest growing religion in New Zealand, we are now a multi cultural society.’

    This chap was clueless as to the import of what he’d just stated.

    Reply
    • Missy

       /  January 30, 2018

      What an idiot that guy is, not to mention incredibly stupid.

      Our parliament is made up of Her Majesty’s Government in New Zealand and Her Majesty’s Opposition, it is HER parliament in New Zealand all references to the Queen should remain in the prayer.

      As for references to christ, my understanding NZ remains (nominally at least) a christian based country, we observe christian holidays and christianity is still the largest religion. In the 2013 census those declaring to be christian or have no religion made up the majority of the population the next religions in order of numbers were: Hinduism (2.11%), Buddhism (1.50%), Islam (1.18%), 1.53% of the population were categorised as ‘other religions’, and 4.43% did not specify their religion.

      I would like to know where he got his stats that Islam is the fastest growing religion, that won’t be known for certain until the census this year.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  January 30, 2018

        I’m afraid this prat may have a point. This graph does have some riders. But it’s not looking good.

        http://brilliantmaps.com/fastest-religion/

        Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  January 30, 2018

        @Missy – “In the 2013 census those declaring to be christian or have no religion made up the majority of the population the next religions in order of numbers were: …”

        Let me get this straight. By your standards “no religion” is a) a religion? and b) nominally Christian? Hence references to Christ should remain in the Parliamentary prayer …

        The actual figures are 48% affiliated with Christianity, of whom 15% regularly attend Church, and 42% with no religious affiliation, which is not a religion … plus 4.5% undeclared.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

        In other words, the “no religion” people plus the undeclared folks are a roughly neck-and-neck minority of the population along with the disparate [diverse] Christians…

        It’s simply amazing how archaic your paragraph “HER parliament in New Zealand” sounds to me … As anachronistic and unrepresentative as the outdated mode of (so-called) ‘democracy’ she – an hereditary monarch – and ‘her’ Parliament represents …

        This is a good thing for parliament to debate IMHO. Islam per se has almost nothing to do with it.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  January 30, 2018

          ‘ This ‘is a good thing for parliament to debate IMHO. Islam per se has almost nothing to do with it.”

          Yeah, it does. What comes after Christianity? Secularism. What comes after secularism? Anything you want. But should Islam get a foot hold, which lt is in Maoridom, they will have zero acceptance for secularism. Sounds far fetched. Don’t you believe it. By 2050 I believe Islam will be a major influence in New Zealand. It already is. Give me the monarchy and Christianity any day.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  January 30, 2018

            But who knows what the outcome of the ‘debate’ will be Corky?

            If all of the people from the 2013 Census voted in a referendum Christianity would win by a narrow [minority] margin … Doesn’t 48% make you feel reasonably safe?

            Please elucidate on how “Islam is already a major influence in NZ”? Have you got examples of this?

            Otherwise, frankly, you’re sounding pretty Islamophobic paranoid here …

            Reply
            • Conspiratoor

               /  January 30, 2018

              “Please elucidate on how “Islam is already a major influence in NZ”? Have you got examples of this?”

              Allow me to assist..

              The food you eat
              The local pool you want to dip your toes in on Wednesday morning

            • phantom snowflake

               /  January 30, 2018

              Has already given examples; has seen women who looked like they might be Maori wearing headgear that looked like it might be Islamic. Case closed!

            • PartisanZ

               /  January 30, 2018

              “Food”? Are we talking Halal butchered meat?

              What about all the overseas trade dollars this export meat earns? What about the access to precious oil it buys?

              You Righties want that don’t you? You wanted ‘globalization’? Globalized markets including labour? That means immigrants … to keep wages low at home … and as ‘reciprocity’ …

              Something had to take the place of Imperial Rule [the rule of armed force] to get the money and the oil and the cheap labour … You voted for what you call ‘trade’?

              Golly Gosh, turns out its got downsides … Wow! No shit Sherlock!

              But just how hypocritical and futile is it complaining about them …?

            • Corky

               /  January 30, 2018

              Perhaps I should rephrase for the present it is an influence.

              1- Halal certification.
              2- Some Universities and business are making allowances for prayer rooms.
              3- Muslim girl school refuses males from attending sport events. .. There are no consequences.
              4- Public pools allowing special ”women’s only” swimming sessions.
              5- Recruitment of prisoners to Islam ( they probably like the violent stuff)
              7- First signs of inter Muslim conflict in New Zealand.
              8-FIANZ has received funding from know terrorist supporting organisations.
              9- The Left and Islam have forged close ties in New Zealand. Exposed by Ian Wishart. The reply letter published in Investigate Magazine had the signature.of every commie and hardl lefty you could think of.
              1O-Hate preachers coming to New Zealand to preach to young Muslims.
              11- Jew hating Imams.
              12- Given estimates from overseas polls, I believe there are already 1000 Muslims in New Zealand who support terrorist action. Don’t forgot, one terrorist incident in New Zealand and our society changes FOREVER. That fact by itself answers your question.

              I could go on, but I will get to the punchline.

              Better still, what do you think my punchline will be, Parti.. Pretend you are me and see things in perspective.

            • Corky

               /  January 30, 2018

              This guy made it into power. Thankfully there was only one of him. I will allow others to do the permutations.

              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10334250

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 30, 2018

              Prayer rooms are available for anyone.

              Women only-not Muslim women only. Not all women are Muslim.

              Facts, please, Corky, not estimates.

              You still don’t see that making all Muslims out to be terrorists is like saying that all Italians are in the Mafia or all Irish in the IRA.Or all Germans are neo-Nazis. And so on.

              A private, single-sex school can surely make such rules-if this is a real case.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 30, 2018

              There was one Imam who preached a sermon that could be seen as anti-Semitic. They don’t all.

              What does Conspiratoor mean by ‘the food that you eat’ ? Halal meat is by itself at Pak & Save, and so nobody need be terrified of eating it by mistake.

              Someone with body scars or other such things might like to be able to swim with women only.

              Ian Wishart (who has been known to sign himself ‘Wishart’ as if he was Lord Wishart and thus entitled to sign him surname only) is hardly the most reliable source.

            • Corky

               /  January 30, 2018

              Talking of facts please have another go, Kitty.

              Example: Prayer rooms are available for anyone. Some yes, but no all. And most are only frequented by Muslims. Yeah, like other religions would feel welcome or want to enter.

              ”Women only-not Muslim women only. Not all women are Muslim.”

              The Woman only sessions in my area and in Auckland were instigated by Muslims. Again they take over and others feel unwelcome.

              Please do better.

  2. Blazer

     /  January 30, 2018

    2018 and this nonsense still prevails…’it is HER parliament in New Zealand all references to the Queen should remain in the prayer.’

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  January 30, 2018

      I keep hearing people repeating that this is 2018 in a way that implies that this should mean that various things should no longer happen…it is already a cliche.

      Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  January 30, 2018

      Actually it is our parliament.

      Reply
  3. Corky

     /  January 30, 2018

    My school odyssey continued yesterday. I will not blame anyone for thinking I made the following up. i wouldn’t believe it if I was in their shoes.

    I went back to the school administration building I spoke of previously to purchase a sun hat ( now compulsory). The office was chocka with people. However, instead of consisting of 60 % of people from obvious immigrant backgrounds, this time around it was100%.

    I had only just got into line when a loud cracking sound ensued. A huge Island women who had been sitting on a chair tumbled forward as the chair disintegrated. Here drink bottle fell under her, the top popped, and water flew everywhere. We all stopped for a moment, looked at her, then carried on as she crawled towards a pillar to gain support along with another Island women helping.

    The nice lady behind the desk said to go and see the person in charge of lost property. They had hats no one had claimed. I duly did this….but got tired of waiting while the lady in charge of lost property, and another woman, enjoyed a feed and a natter.

    Next to a Kindy in the same area.to enrol a child. This Kindy was so upper middle class my eyes watered. It had chickens, environmental themes and a kid with behavioural issues hiding under a table in a mock log cabin.

    Next thing I hear ‘KIA ORA, HAERE MAI WHANAU” A teacher in a sunhat came out. She was European, but her name suggest she had a Maori partner. She was nice, and explained she was new and the last teacher had been at the kindy for thirty years. She then said she would now be making changes by introducing ‘manaakitanga’ and ‘whanau concepts’ into kindy culture( translation: the old mono cultural teacher was so behind the times.).

    She then asked me about the child I was in enrolling. I said the child was very bright but prone to using her fists to settle disagreements. I told her I expected a firm hand to be applied when dealing with disciplinary issues. Her mouth dropped open, she held her chest and swayed on the spot. I had to explain myself, and apologise for my poor word usage. She gave a weak smile and asked if I wanted coffee. I think she missed my Freudian slip.

    And that’s it folks. Honestly, it is true.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  January 30, 2018

      ‘ prone to using her fists to settle disagreements.’…as Gezza says…’I blame the..parents’.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  January 30, 2018

        Praise the lord for NATIONAL, John Key and Bill English for letting all of the riff-raff of the world in and stuffing the housing market up for ever for our NZ born but the foreigners could buy up large from overseas, so when you visit a doctors and notice you are the only whitey there think(you rock John and Bill)

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  January 30, 2018

        I do to. Her brothers have been taught not to hit girls. So the girl gets free reign…except when I’m around. PC has consequences, Blazer. As to what Gezza thinks, or doesn’t……..

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2018

        ‘prone to using her fists to settle disagreements.’…as Gezza says…’I blame the..parents’.

        No, no, no, no, no – that’s Kitty. I always blame the government ! For everything !

        Reply
    • Corky

       /  January 30, 2018

      Oh. I forgot. The kindy teacher said they had a waiting list, and maybe I should shop around for another kindy just in case no vacancies appeared. However, it was confirmed later in the day a vacancy had been found.

      So the questions was. How did this child receive a placement before other kids waiting for a vacancy?. Was it my scintillating personality backed up by Dale Carnegie techniques?. Or was it simply because the child was Maori? I would like to think the former, but fear the latter.

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2018

        I ordered a product online from Mighty Ape yesterday. Their email confirming my order began:

        “Hi Gezza,

        Ngā mihi nui mō te hoko i Makimaki Toa! Thanks for shopping at Mighty Ape :)”

        I thought that was really neat. Google translate gave two very funny translations initially – but their third attemp got the thank you right.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2018

        My money’s on your scintillating personality backed up by Dale Carnegie techniques, Corks.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 30, 2018

          And his gentlemanly behaviour in helping the woman up when she fell off her chair instead of just gawping at her.

          This school odyssey is rather far-fetched, the pudding is being over-egged. Too many things are happening in too few places.and on too few occasions.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  January 30, 2018

            It’s true. I have been involved with said school on and off for over twenty years. The changes in the last few years have been phenomenal. What I wrote of above has never happened before. It has, until last year, been a bog standard school with nothing exceptional happening. That changed last year when I first commented on the teacher wearing a dress far too short for sitting down in front of the class.That made some parents feel uncomfortable.

            ”And his gentlemanly behaviour in helping the woman up when she fell off her chair instead of just gawping at her.”

            Let me explain something to you. You don’t help a Polynesian in such circumstances because of whakama: they may lash out in shame. To be truthful I was too stunned by what was unfolding before my eyes…all I wanted was a bloody hat…and to feel like I was still in New Zealand. Besides, the lady had help.

            Now if you want real piss taking try else where on this thread. There is a real beauty.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 31, 2018

              You must have an enormous family if you have been dealing with a school for 20 years.

              Whakama be blowed. Leaving someone floundering, possibly injured, is surely unacceptable in any culture. You could have asked if help was needed.

            • Corky

               /  January 31, 2018

              ”It’s true. I have been involved with said school on and off for over twenty years.”

              Whakama be blowed.??? You are showing mono cultural ignorance.

              Look and learn. Could you hack this hiding?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 31, 2018

              Is there 20+ years difference in age between your oldest and youngest child ?

            • Corky

               /  January 31, 2018

              Have you heard the saying ” assuming is the mother of all fuckups?”

              You have assumed I am talking of my own children.

  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  January 30, 2018

    The “”Everyone Knows” fallacy.

    Yesterday Robert tried the “Everyone Knows” tactic on us which soon proved that actually “No-one Knows”, least of all Robert.

    Our media and political commentary is full of similar assumptions in need of challenge. Good knowledge is hard to get.

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  January 30, 2018

      So, Alan, did you show that plastic bags discarded in NZ are not a problem in the ocean?
      Didn’t see that.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 30, 2018

        Nope. See “No-one Knows” above. You didn’t see that either?

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  January 30, 2018

          You didn’t back your position with evidence (that plastic bags discarded here in NZ aren’t getting into the ocean) – why not???

          Reply
          • Gerrit

             /  January 30, 2018

            I would imagine for the same reason that you cannot provide evidence that discarded in New Zealand, plastic bags end up in the ocean.

            Even if you could, you cannot quantify how many bags or the volume by weight of plastic deposited by new Zealanders. . Neither can you quantify or measure who the culprits are.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  January 30, 2018

              “I would imagine for the same reason that you cannot provide evidence that discarded in New Zealand, plastic bags end up in the ocean.”
              Do you think they don’t? Despite evidence from other countries that they do !
              Why do you think that, Gerrit?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  January 30, 2018

              I would guess that very few plastic bags end up in the ocean and most of the plastic that does is not bags but rubbish from ships.

              I hear that they are blowing about everywhere-but they are not,

              There seems little point in banning them altogether and selling things like disposable dinnerware and cutlery. Not to mention things like rice, pasta and frozen peas that come in plastic bags.

              The knee-jerk, feel-gooders don’t seem to realise that people do, in fact, reuse plastic bags and that these can be recycled. Supermarkets have big bins for this. I don’t like Countdown because it’s so expensive, and I don’t like the way that they use so many plastic bags. But why can’t they be like Pak & Save and The Warehouse and sell bags to those who want or need them ?

              I bet that Countdown will still be selling things in plastic packaging, selling plastic appliances that can’t be recycled and selling disposable things that almost certainly will end up in landfill, even those that can be recycled (some can’t-I looked)

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  January 30, 2018

            I have been walking dogs on Northland beaches for the last 25 years. In that time I’ve seen a modest amount of plastic washed up. Almost zero plastic shopping bags. Much more waste from fishing boats, much of it foreign.

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  January 31, 2018

              well its settled then…you couldn’t get more…scientific’..evidence than..that.Richard Dawkins would be proud of…you.

  5. Corky

     /  January 30, 2018

    Why don’t these protesters try Joe’s Diner? Probably because they know they’d be dealt to quick smart.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11984178

    Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  January 30, 2018

      “We were trying to talk to them but they were quite in-your-face with talking and speaking over the top of you — they were very loud, yelling.””
      Poor mice!

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  January 30, 2018

        They were a right posse of pricks, as reported. They’d have pissed me off no end.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  January 30, 2018

          Well, the customers were eating dead animals. I don’t eat meat myself-eating dead animals is repulsive to me-but have to accept that many people are all right with the idea of killing an animal and eating its flesh,

          I find people who eat sheep and pigs and other animals utter hypocrites when they raise holy hands in horror at the idea of other people eating dogs. Why is it all right to eat one animal and not another ?

          Reply
  6. PartisanZ

     /  January 30, 2018

    “Group selection is a concept that Darwin was forced to develop when he realized that his theory of natural selection could not explain the evolution of prosocial behaviors. The word “prosocial” refers to any attitude, behavior, or institution oriented toward the welfare of others or one’s group as a whole.”

    Very interesting article from Evonomics … another group committed to boldly go where no monkey-man [economist] has gone before …

    http://evonomics.com/pirates-economics-self-interest-hayek-wilson/

    Yes Alan, you read it right … I am entertaining opinion that acknowledges the work of Friedrich Hayek (1899-1992) … albeit quite critically.

    “In most animal societies, dominance takes the form of the stronger individuals intimidating the weaker. These societies would be called despotic in human terms and they provide an inhospitable social environment for cooperation. Even the limited cooperation that occurs usually takes the form of small alliances competing against other alliances within the same group. In our distant ancestors, members of groups found ways to collectively suppress disruptive self-serving behaviors, which provides a more hospitable social environment for cooperation.” – David Sloan Wilson (ibid)

    Reply
  7. Gezza

     /  January 30, 2018

    @ Alan – just continuing this discussion here from the jobs aspect …

    As I said on the “Rents” thread, I remember you mentioning there’s not enough housing in Russell when I was up there. You get a massive tourist influx (& thus temporary servicing jobs) in Summer don’t you, Alan? How much extra housing would be economically worthwhile without full-year occupancy?

    You replied:
    “With present costs, delays and requirements obviously none. So we pay unemployment, sickness and domestic purposes benefits instead and fund state housing in places where there are no jobs.”

    I can’t remember the whole discussion we had about this, & Russell’s a beautful little town in an awesome location, but – realistically – how many permanent jobs do you think Russell (& the other bay towns could sustain anyway, if the tourism season’s only for, what, 6 months max?

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  January 30, 2018

      Last winter’s bookings were unusually steady so I think the Asian market is changing things as they come in their summer. I have no idea about numbers except that they are increasing. Lots of opportunity to sell good experiences – especially if we can hurry up global warming a bit.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 30, 2018

        I met a man from Whangamata (I think it was there, anyway it was somewhere like that) who moved out and rented his house out over the summer. He wasn’t asking an extortionate rate, but he did well enough to make it worth while.Good for him.

        Reply
  8. Corky

     /  January 30, 2018

    Ouch, some publicity is bad publicity, especially with a socialist government. These tenants will probably be moved on. How dare they get ideas above their station. Five new homes in a derelict part of South Auckland could be built by selling these expensive pieces of real estate.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11981063

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  January 30, 2018

      “Aren’t those occupancy figures dreadful!” I hear Righties shrieking. “It’s a crime against ‘free markets’!” …

      Using the figures available in the article, which makes no mention of ‘tenant turnover’ or ‘repairs & maintenance’ downtime, 1411 vacant houses from a stock of 47,954 equals just under 3% at any one time. This sounds quite reasonable to me given the numbers …

      State houses, I surmise, are not lying idle because capital gains makes renting them out ‘uneconomic’ and pointless, as were approximately 30,000 privately owned dwellings in Auckland alone early last year (from memory) …

      “Aren’t these occupancy figures dreadful!” I would shriek. “The housing ‘free market’ is a crime against humanity!”

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  January 30, 2018

        Yes, it’s shocking that 6% of Auckland houses are up for sale, renovation, waiting for tenants or their owners are temporarily overseas or on holiday. None of these activities should be permitted.

        Reply
  9. Blazer

     /  January 30, 2018

    usual suspects moaning and spreading misinformation…of course the ‘fact’ that only 3% of buyers are foreigners seems to be …forgotten…now!
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=11984378

    Reply
  10. Gezza

     /  January 30, 2018

    YNZ POSTER SURVEY

    In your opinion, who would have the most members who would get absolutely trashed at a party?

    The National Party – Uptick

    The Labour Party – Downtick

    Reply
  11. lurcher1948

     /  January 30, 2018

    Yawn the droning larry williams on blue radio ZB is whining on about the speakers, new parliament prayer. I read somewhere that the alt-rightwing newstalkZB host williams was a X traffic officer?if its true he would have been at home in the USA, guns and tail lights…….

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  January 30, 2018

      Did you hear the interview with Lawzee, Lurchy? The guy is a practising Anglican. Well I never.! Good to see Christians protesting in front of parliament. Such a different crowd to the dirty, matted haired, ill-tempered liberal rabble that unusually show up protesting.
      Could it be Christian principles that make these Christian people better?

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  January 30, 2018

        Corky if they REALLY believed in change they could have prayed at home GODS EVERYWHERE you know not just at parliament And there are more than one Christian faith then there’s all the others,and I’m really sure in fact im certian god sighs at your petty hatred feeled posts Corky…just musing

        Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  January 30, 2018

        Dirty and matted haired ? Yes, I agree with you that that would be unusual. I don’t see people like that at protests, Some of the ones at this were a bit scruffy, though.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  January 30, 2018

          Please go to Spec Savers…or conversely, look through the correct end of your binoculars.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  January 31, 2018

            I don’t need either glasses or binoculars to see a television screen-most people don’t.

            Reply
    • Gezza

       /  January 30, 2018

      I forgot it was the first Trevor Show Question Time of the new Parliamentary Year today & if he announced it at the start I missed it. I managed to catch the Questions & answers on the QT replay.

      Haven’t decided whether the new goatee suits Trev yet. Government Ministers did ok. A bit evasive at times. Some of the Opposition Questions were really confusing butthey got nowhere with them.

      Bit of a laff when Damien O’Connor answered David Bennett in a petty series of supplementaries about new regs specifying what can be marketed as genuine manuka honey that the previous government had “dicked around” and done nothing about some of the overseas ripoffs in that area.

      Nikki Kaye got all Miss Frilly Knickers & asked the Speaker wasn’t that an “unparliamentary remark”? Damien replied ‘It isn’t on the West Coast” – but he did eventually withdraw it.

      Reply
  12. lurcher1948

     /  January 30, 2018

    He has a very boring voice(DRONING) and SO predictable hell he could walk straight into trumps team in the USA, larry there could be an opening there go spread your wings, and get a gun IT MAKES IT BIGGER….just saying

    Reply
  13. Gezza

     /  January 30, 2018

    Sacre Bleu! Chaos on Wellington’s commuter rail service following a power outage at peak hours!

    Reply

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