Three National leadership contenders so far

So far Judith Collins, Amy Adams and Simon Bridges have put themselves forward for leadership of the National Party (and therefore Leader of the Opposition).

As well as that, Mark Mitchell, Jonathan Coleman and Steven Joyce have indicated they are considering standing.

They will all no doubt be canvassing for support – National leaders are chosen by their caucus, so the National MPS, some of whom have just become MPs, will decide on their leader (and deputy leader).

It’s good to see a number of people offering their services.

A number of others have ruled out standing.

Personally I don’t care who takes over the leadership. I have an open mind about it, and it’s up to the party to take a punt on it’s future.

From my experience it’s very difficult to judge how someone will measure up as a leader until they have been a leader for some months. This was apparent in the procession of leaders that Labour had. Bill English also showed that someone who failed as a leader can learn from that and have another go and do a very creditable job.

All I hope is that whoever National chooses to lead them does a good job, revitalises National and provide a good Opposition to the Government without getting bogged down by petty partisan bickering. Picking fights wisely is important.

It may be next week before we know the full line up of hopefuls. May the best person come forward and win.

Leave a comment

113 Comments

  1. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    Dreadful options. Lefties are loving this!

    Reply
    • Corky.

       /  February 15, 2018

      You wont if Judy gets the nod. My horse has been scratched, so Collins is the only rational choice – baggage and all. Jacinda mania will turn to Jacinda fatigue as voters tire of the incessant stories of babies and being a ‘working mum’

      Meanwhile Collins will cut a powerful stateswoman type demeanor. The complete opposite of Jacinda.

      That’s when us Righties will gatecrash your party. If someone other than Collins is elected leader, things may not be so rosy for National.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  February 15, 2018

        Oravida. Swamp kauri. Threatening journalists. Stood down by her PM. Yep, she’s got what it takes!

        Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  February 15, 2018

        But best of all she’s besties with Cameron Slater!

        Reply
        • There’s history for sure, but can you substantiate that as of now? Associating an MP with a dirty political activist without evidence could be seen as a form of dirty politics.

          Three years ago there were strong signs of distancing from Slater by National MPs, and as far as I’ve seen Collins has not been connected recently.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  February 15, 2018

            Without evidence???
            Are you saying, Pete, that Collins has dumped her great mate, Cam! And you’re suggesting that I’m playing dirty politics by saying they are friends still??
            Pete! You okay?

            Reply
          • Blazer

             /  February 15, 2018

            ‘Associating an MP with a dirty political activist without evidence could be seen as a form of dirty politics.’…surely you..jest…a plethora of evidence…what evidence do you have Collins has distanced herself from her…champion?

            Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  February 15, 2018

            Okay then Judith Collins was a close friend of ” a dirty political activist” (Pete’s description) at the time he was most active with his ” dirty political activism” – better?

            Reply
        • PDB

           /  February 15, 2018

          Collins was officially cleared of all that Hager tried to pin on her in his book.

          Yet another thing Hager was wrong about.

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  February 15, 2018

            She was stood down by Key, PDB. Can you recall why?

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              She actually resigned from cabinet and requested an investigation into an email that suggested she was undermining Adam Feeley – claims that she was completely cleared off which saw her re-enter cabinet.

              Your point is?

      • PDB

         /  February 15, 2018

        Looking at the options, and all of them have major flaws, I’d have to agree that Collins is the only one that would have any chance at all of being effective as leader. Even if only to buy some time for a future leader to be parachuted in from outside of the current mob in parliament.

        The rest are too ‘wishy-washy’ to be good leaders and though Ardern is also in that boat unlike her they would be very unlikely to get an easy ride in the MSM without the ‘gee-whiz’ type personality. Also add to the fact the National leader is following in the steps of two previous National leaders that pulled in the support whilst Ardern had nothing to live up to when she took over the sinking ship.

        Collins would need to appoint a youngish ‘up-and-comer’ though as deputy to offset the fact she is one of the older gang of National MP’s. Not ideal by any stretch but for National a slim chance is better than no chance at all.

        Reply
  2. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2018

    Bill English also showed that someone who failed as a leader can learn from that and have another go and …fail..again’
    Adams now looks the fav to me…with Kaye,Bishop,Barry on her shoulder.Mitchell,Coleman and Joyce probably jostling for rankings.

    Reply
  3. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    Maggie Barry. That’s all.

    Reply
  4. Patzcuaro

     /  February 15, 2018

    Add one to the list.

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  February 15, 2018

      Barnaby may fancy a fresh start with his new family, but will need to reapply for citizenship having just renounced it.

      Reply
    • PDB

       /  February 15, 2018

      Len Brown was at a loose end?

      Reply
  5. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2018

    how about Peter Thiel…he’s richer than Key,richer than Joyce…perfect..credentials.

    Reply
  6. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    Todd? Todd Barclay? Fly him back from London, give him a bit of a spruce-up and he’ll be good to go!

    Reply
  7. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2018

    could always parachute ..Mr Fishfinger in from the U.K…could be the..sizzle they’re looking..for.

    Reply
  8. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    Max? He’s got the look.

    Reply
  9. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 15, 2018

    It won’t be looks that win the political battle, it will be strategy and management. I don’t know any of the contenders well enough to know who has it.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2018

      They need a youngish, good-looking, articulate, smart-thinking, believable, hard hitter with a few clues, a credible overall political philosophy, a sense of humour, no skeletons in the closet, & reasonable diction.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 15, 2018

        The brains and strategy are the important parts. The strategy has to get allies on board and shift votes to their coalition.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  February 15, 2018

          Yes but they also have to be able to communicate & sell it to the public. Jacinda might be relentlessly positive but her team is well into attack politics.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  February 15, 2018

            Sure, but communication and selling is a team effort. Strategic thinking tends to be more individual.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  February 15, 2018

              Our media now focus everyone on the leader as the chief communicator. Ardern became Labour leader & now PM almost purely because of that. A good political strategist isn’t necessarily the best communicator & the best manager or the best leader. But yes, I agree that if they are all of those then they’re the right choice.

  10. Zedd

     /  February 15, 2018

    I think they need a fresh face, maybe : M Woodhouse (Dn MP) or one of the new crop ??
    Collins, Adams & even Bridges are just ‘more of the same : Keyites’

    methinks that Natl may go through, the same thing Labour did.. several changes before getting a ‘potential winner’ maybe in about 9 years ? 😀

    Reply
  11. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    John Minto?
    He’s very critical of Labour and has great name recognition among Right wingers – why not!!!

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  February 15, 2018

      @RG

      LOL !! 😀 😀 😀

      I heard they should have just offered it, to Winston & kicked English out prior to the election.. ‘real politics Nat-style’ : win at ANY cost !!!

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  February 15, 2018

        You do know what parties sold off all their pride (and a good chunk of their election promises) to become govt with Winston don’t you?

        Reply
        • Zedd

           /  February 15, 2018

          YES but who IS the Govt. now ?
          9 LOOOONG years, was far too long & any change is better than another term of that tired/outdated Natl mob, who only pretend to care about ‘ALL NZers’ (as they now claim) rather than just their rich mates… after losing POWER :/

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  February 15, 2018

          Take for example this story: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/350382/govt-considering-ditching-fishing-boat-camera-plans

          So we have the new govt looking at rolling back National environmental policy of having cameras on boats because the fishing industry doesn’t like it?

          “Forest and Bird chief executive Kevin Hague said the fishing industry could not be trusted and cameras on boats was the only way to keep it honest.

          “We know that there is an enormous amount of bykill of marine mammals and seabirds as well as other illegal or immoral practices that occur out at sea.”

          What about the Green party then? Surely they wouldn’t want this change to go through?

          “Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage has been investigating bycatch in the fishing industry and said there were other methods that could improve sustainability.
          “Cameras are one mechanism to tackle that issue,” she said.”

          So doesn’t sound like they’re going to stop any changes to better protect the environment. So much for principles…

          What party did the fishing industry heavily back in the election?

          Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  February 15, 2018

          @PDB – “You do know what parties sold off all their pride (and a good chunk of their election promises) to become govt with Winston don’t you?” …

          You are in fine fettle today PDB …

          Also: You do know what PARTY sold off all their pride (and ALL their election promises) to become govt with Winston as Deputy PM, don’t you?

          Yep, sure do ……. NZ First did!

          Reply
      • PDB

         /  February 15, 2018

        I hear you ‘hear’ a lot Zedd…talking to oneself will do that.

        Reply
  12. robertguyton

     /  February 15, 2018

    Cam himself!
    Why not Cameron?
    Slater. Whale. He knows the ropes, that’s for sure.
    And he’s connected.
    Judith for a start.
    And Key, direct line. It’s obvious, isn’t it?
    Cameron Slater for Leader. Of the National Party!
    Judith for Deputy.

    Reply
    • So you have not produced any evidence but continue to smear. That’s a classic Slater MO – you’re not as dirty, but it’s smearing, mudslinging, dirty.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  February 15, 2018

        Smear? SMEAR ???
        Suggesting that two self-confessed friends are still friends is a smear ???
        What is the mud, Pete, that you claim I’m slinging? Friendship?

        Reply
        • robertguyton

           /  February 15, 2018

          John Key rated Slater though, didn’t he? Special relationship, late night texts, etc. Has there been a fall-out? Chums no more?

          Reply
  13. Griff

     /  February 15, 2018

    Collins would alienate many national need to win next time.
    She is Conservative and appeals to nationals core constituents.
    That will not give them the increase votes they need to become the government.
    National is too large and attempts to appeal to to great a range of voters on the right .
    I would argue the best approach would be for Collins join The Conservatives and become the focus of a viable right wing Conservative party in NZ leaving national to focus on the right Liberal faction of the population.

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  February 15, 2018

      “leaving national to focus on the right Liberal faction of the population”

      And the new National leader to do this is? Hence the problem.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  February 15, 2018

        and yet the right have waxed on about the depth of talent…in National for..years.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  February 15, 2018

          I think you are confusing depth of talent of MP’s and depth of talent in leader. Key was always out on his own in that regard and it was a surprise English did so well.

          Reply
          • Blazer

             /  February 15, 2018

            yes English was a ..natural…lost 2 out of 2…but smart enough not to go for…the..hatrick.

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 15, 2018

              You mean ‘the hat trick’, I think, Blazer.

    • PartisanZ

       /  February 15, 2018

      @Griff – “the best approach would be for Collins to join The Conservatives and become the focus of a viable right wing Conservative party in NZ leaving national to focus on the right Liberal faction of the population.”

      Awesome idea Griff … Far Right and Right-Lite acting in unison … (perhaps with Old New-Right ACT?) …

      The problem is Collins would have no guarantee of even a senior cabinet position, let alone leadership or deputy leadership, assuming she could win an electorate and/or cross the 5% threshold as a Conservative …. which would give new meaning to the word “thresh-hold” huh?

      She’d essentially be in the same position as Dave Seymour and ACT … with no guarantee of even being a coalition partner in the face of, for instance, a Maori Party resurgence – which could easily happen if Labour messes-up again a la Foreshore & Seabed – or a NZFirst transformation … (much less likely but not entirely impossible) …

      Hopefully TOP will be the Kingmaker next time, so the other players had better get their “evidence-based” and “evidence-informed” best-tweeds on …

      “And the new National leader to do this is? Hence the problem.”

      Seldom, if ever, have I agreed so wholeheartedly with you PDB …

      Reply
  14. PartisanZ

     /  February 15, 2018

    Given that the National Party are heirs and descendants of “the crudest, most ignorant and bigoted collection of far-right reactionaries by which NZ has ever had the misfortune to be governed” [Chris Trotter describing the First National Govt 1949 – 57], Collins is the most likely successor as leader.

    Cut in the same Pit Bull mold as Jenny Shipley, she represents the true-blue face of National.

    They will NEVER have a female leader AND a female deputy, nor will they ever have co-leadership – an idea as foreign to them as dairy farming on the surface of Jupiter – so Bridges will be deputy leader …

    Unless any of the others throws their hat in the ring, which will only split the vote …

    Coleman and Adams would be a sensible, moderate pair from any reasonable person’s PoV, but such concepts don’t apply …

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2018

      Coleman suffers from the handicap of having been the Health Minister, PZ. Watching him in parliament he comes across to me as one of the coldest, most clinically right wing members they have?

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  February 15, 2018

        Yeah, fair enough … I don’t follow the ‘personalities’ closely enough … I withdraw the Coleman/Adams idea … Who else is there?

        Reply
    • PDB

       /  February 15, 2018

      PZ: “They will NEVER have a female leader AND a female deputy”

      Of course Labour have done this before…no wait!

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  February 15, 2018

        I wasn’t thinking in ‘relative’ terms or making comparisons PDB …

        If Labour did do it though, they would be 50 – 100 years ahead of National doing so …

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  February 15, 2018

        I really don’t know. I posted my ideal leader profile further up (a bit tongue in cheek – should’ve added an emoji). Bill’s packed it in a bit earlier than I expected. I’ve been watching Question Time to see who’s performing the strongest there & if anyone was standing out. Collins has got a new look & it looked like a new more witty style, but she’s got baggage & part of the old crew. They’ve all got the problem of trying to be serious while Ministers can clown about & obfuscate. Like they used to.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  February 15, 2018

          @ Gezza – ” all got the problem of trying to be serious while Ministers can clown about & obfuscate. Like they used to.”

          Serves them Right then …

          Mind you, that’s practically all JohnKey EVER did! And he was so ‘popular’ …

          Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  February 15, 2018

          I think Judith could surprise. People still see the old “crusher Collins”, but she has softened the edges and speaks exceptionally well.
          She also seems to have a sense of humour. If she gets the leadership, the opposition will need to be on their toes.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  February 15, 2018

            Trevor & she seem to get on ok.

            Reply
            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              I’m not so sure now about Cam Slater for Leader of the Nats – too honest, I reckon!

            • Gezza

               /  February 15, 2018

              Fuck off robert. No offence.
              Or get serious.

            • Robert, continually trying to disrupt and devalue a topic is childish mudslinging.

              You’re welcome to continue here if you have something worthwhile to contribute, not matter what stance you take.

              But if you keep ignoring advice and warnings, and if you keep refusing to substantiate allegations, then expect to have your commenting rights compromised. I’m fairly tolerant, but if someone deliberately keeps dicking me around then they risk consequences. I’m not going to keep wasting my time.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              None taken, Gezza – the Slater thing’s way overdone. Serious it is and were you when you wrote;
              “They need a youngish, good-looking, articulate, smart-thinking, believable, hard hitter with a few clues, a credible overall political philosophy, a sense of humour, no skeletons in the closet, & reasonable diction.”
              Because if you were, you were being rather cruel, given National has no-one like that.

            • Gezza

               /  February 15, 2018

              @ robert – semi-serious. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, because although such a leader would be the ideal counter to Ardern, I can’t see anyone fitting that profile in National – or Labour.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              “if you keep refusing to substantiate allegations”
              Don’t be ridiculous, Pete. Saying, quite reasonably, that Collins and Slater are friends is hardly an allegation, is it! Asking me to prove it is … ridiculous!

          • PartisanZ

             /  February 15, 2018

            … you mean the government will need to be on their toes …?

            It will be interesting to find out exactly how big the ‘Crusher’ element of the population and of the National Party truly is …

            I’d say you’ve grossly over-estimated it, although that’s not to guess how powerful the pro-Crusher influence cartel really is … ?

            She may have all the corporate ruling-elite, their lobbyists and ‘Think Tanks’ who actually control government behind her all the way, for all we know … in fact she very likely has …

            Reply
            • High Flying Duck

               /  February 15, 2018

              What I meant was, she has expanded well beyond the “crusher” image and given exposure would probably appeal to a far wider demographic than she used to.
              I think she may have a lot of support in the back benches – she was sitting with them for quite a while. So her support may be understated by the journo’s who only mingle with the front bench.
              But who knows, there may be more to step into the ring yet.
              It will be an interesting 9 days…

            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              This bloke for instance…

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101464323/could-a-dark-horse-be-the-surprise-winner-in-national-leadership-contest

              National may not have one clear winner everybody can get behind thus a compromise leader that can be agreed upon by all factions may be sought.

            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              You forget PZ that she also has large support in the immigration/ South Auckland communities that possibly could be to National’s advantage/ attract more voters from those core Labour electorates if she did become leader.

            • Blazer

               /  February 15, 2018

              yes a charm offensive from Collins on the way…soft pastels,bit of dancing,new hairdo…best caretaker…at the least.

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 15, 2018

              @PDB – “This bloke for instance…” being Mark Mitchell

              Now there’s someone who definitely DOES need to defect to the Conservatives …

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              “she has expanded well beyond the “crusher” image”
              No, she hasn’t; she’s “Crusher” Collins and no amount of airbrushing and Vaseline on the lens will change that image that’s embedded in the minds of New Zealanders. If the party believes she can re-brand as a caring softie, they’re deluded.

          • robertguyton

             /  February 15, 2018

            Fair enough, Gezza. I don’t think though, that Labour’s looking for someone to “counter Ardern” 🙂

            Reply
  15. Blazer

     /  February 15, 2018

    Adams is Bill English…in drag.

    Reply
  16. PartisanZ

     /  February 15, 2018

    Just had a look at the whole National line-up on Wiki … They’ve got no-one …

    Whoever gets the job will be caretaker Leader of the Opposition for 6 – 9 years failing leadership coups to appoint a new caretaker leader …

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2018

      It’s true a flick through their troops is not as encouraging as I might want if a National supporter, but a flick through Labour’s is pretty scary too.

      Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  February 15, 2018

        Leadership qualities are a rare beast. And often hard to see until the person is put under the blowtorch.
        The rare person shines through – Jacinda seems to have that “something” and to have been pegged for big things early on. Same with John Key.
        Helen Clark had to endure years of low popularity and almost being rolled, and yet turned into one of our best Prime Ministers once she got in.
        But if you look through the NZ past, there are a small few charismatic characters who stand out among a dour list of journeymen and women who just got the job done.

        Reply
  17. High Flying Duck

     /  February 15, 2018

    Simon Bridges would have a far better chance if he had an interpreter whenever he speaks. It would mean we would know what the hell he was on about, and would also make the talking about himself in the third person a bit more tolerable, coming from a third person.

    Reply
  18. Zedd

     /  February 15, 2018

    Mickey Mouse.. maybe another option ! 😀

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  February 15, 2018

      He already seems to be the Minister of Employment?

      Reply
    • PDB

       /  February 15, 2018

      Shit out of luck – he’s already leading the Green party with Minnie about to be appointed.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  February 15, 2018

        PDB – continually trying to disrupt and devalue a topic is childish mudslinging.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  February 15, 2018

          This is not devaluing the topic. It’s giving an equally silly response to a silly comment.

          Reply
        • PDB

           /  February 15, 2018

          Bob – Your hippy-critical nature knows no bounds today! Ignoring the fact Zedd first brought up Mickey Mouse (which you chose to ignore) what serious discussion have you brought to this topic?

          Robert: “Max? He’s got the look.” “Todd? Todd Barclay? Fly him back from London, give him a bit of a spruce-up and he’ll be good to go!””Cameron Slater for Leader. Of the National Party!”

          As satire obviously isn’t your thing best to stick to what you’re best at…doing nothing at all! [Deleted, unnecessary and unsubstantiated personal attack. PG]

          Reply
          • robertguyton

             /  February 15, 2018

            Thanks, Pete. Though I didn’t see it, I appreciate being shielded from PDB’s unnecessary and unsubstantiated attacks.
            That Zedd, eh! What a scoundrel! Mickey Mouse for Leader of the Nats; as if!

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              Wasn’t actually bad – would have passed muster as a generic comment except your profile is known so therefore could have been construed as a personal attack so fair enough. I don’t know what you do (and don’t care) so that wasn’t the case.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              [Deleted. PG]

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 15, 2018

              @robertguyton – “That Zedd, eh! What a scoundrel! Mickey Mouse for Leader of the Nats; as if!”

              As if what … ?

              As if Mickey would ever take the job! ….. ?

              Ahhhhhhhhh …. What’s up Doc!?

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              Deleted? Without explanation? What was the problem, Pete?

            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              Have you yet signed the above petition Robert against the environment-hating govt we now have?

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              “Above petition”?
              Most Government fail to understand the real relationship between humans and the rest of creation. In my experience, The Greens, or at least some of their MPs, come closest.

            • PDB

               /  February 15, 2018

              Unfortunately for you the Green party MP’s have sold out the environment to Winston and his fishing donors…

              https://action.forestandbird.org.nz/camerasonboats/

            • Zedd

               /  February 15, 2018

              @RG

              I was being a little ‘silly’.. too serious in here sometimes, BUT actually on second thought maybe Mr Mouse could do a better job than some of the current ‘contenders’ (AA & SB perhaps) 🙂

            • robertguyton

               /  February 15, 2018

              MM, Zedd, can be foolish, but he’s not dishonest, so far as I know.

  19. High Flying Duck

     /  February 15, 2018

    Reply
  20. Reply

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