Open Forum – Sunday

18 February 2018

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87 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  February 18, 2018

    Since the story broke of a young Muslim New Zealand man bent on killing a whole heap of us Infidels, I’ve been thinking how I should react and post when our first terror attack does happen. It seems people.who hold libertarian views ( read conservative for most people) like me, and who are strident anti Muslim immigration, will be between a rock and a hard place. If we post we’ll be accused of a using one incident ( no matter the death toll) as justification for our racist and religious bigotry. If we call for calm we will be called hypocrites
    It’s a no win situation. With that in mind I did a dry run yesterday to test the waters regarding the Florida school shootings. It’s as I predicted:

    .Gezza / February 17, 2018
    “I hate making capital on someones grief”
    Bullshit.

    So, with that in mind, I do declare when we suffer our first Muslim terror attack, I will not post on the incident for three days out of respect for our victims. Of course, liberals will even find fault with that stance….they always do.

    • Blazer

       /  February 18, 2018

      lets hope you’re…disappointed.

      • Corky

         /  February 18, 2018

        Honestly, so do I. But you know as well as me, the inevitable will happen.

        • Gezza

           /  February 18, 2018

          Pathetic. What a grandstander.

          A completely different issue to yet another mass shooting by someone mentally unfit to own a firearm with easy & legal access to an arsenal including a military style high capacity assault rifle in the US.

          Selective quote. Used with no context, which I went on to guve. You’re still making capital out of it. As is everybody who expresses a view for or against the idea of a population all carrying arms – because of the amount of gun crime it causes in the United States.

          Any muslim terrorist attack if it ever happened here will be just as likely to be a complete surprise, involving a vehicle or a bomb. You & I are both opposed to Muslim immigration anyway.

    • I wonder how the liberals would take an attack by these ferals upon liberals only ?
      I suppose it would be ‘our’ fault because well just because.
      Send them all back !
      solve the problem before it becomes one

      • Blazer

         /  February 18, 2018

        never fear…George of the…jungle…is here.

        • PartisanZ

           /  February 18, 2018

          George White E. Rightie …

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2018

            The boy is a nutter, was not born a Muslim, was (from the sound of it ) a Kiwi and not a migrant. If Muslims intended to carry out attacks here, they would have done so by now. This boy is mentally ill and is now being treated. He seems to have lived in a fantasy world. None of this is important to Corks, of course.

            Nothing happened. Nobody was killed,

            If we didn’t have Muslims here, we would have far fewer doctors and other professionals. It would have been the basest ingratitude to have shown the door to the people who risked their lives for us as translators.

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2018

              If we didn’t have Muslim immigrant professionals here we’d have them from other countries. Islam is a religion that is absurd, incoherent, & easily able to be interpreted to justify suicide mission terror attacks by the isolated & / or disaffected, the socially maladapted & the mentally disturbed.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 18, 2018

              So is Christianity. Look at Gloriavale, look at the Moonies, look at the Westboro Baptists. People use God to justify all sorts of things. The boy in the US who slaughtered the church people was, I think, a church-goer.

              It’s not Muslims committing atrocities in Myanmar, it’s Buddhists, I believe.

              The overwhelming majority of Muslims are not the fanatical killers that you and Corky seem to imagine, nor is Islam the absurd religion that you depict it as being.

              The Bible has some hair-raising stories about slaughters committed in the name of God. Do you think that all believers in God do things like that ?

              How many of the mass slaughters in the US were done by Muslim terrorists last year ?

              How many of our murders were ?

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2018

              All 3 Abrahamic religions are full of myths, impossible magic, & contradictions but the worst two are the 1st & the 3rd because their adherents use their God & their scriptures to justify murder, repression, & slaughter as God-sanctioned. And in the case of Islam, it’s extreme, it’s currently happening, & Allah is actively always publicly invoked as the justification for it.

              Most Christians in my experience are a pretty slack lot when it comes to knowing exactly what’s even in the Bible anyway. Some interesting historical stuff in parts of the Old Testament. But a lot of obvious rot too. When you debate them they’re easily stonkered because it’s such a muddle in places, like any collection of ancient writings, rituals, myths, songs & sayings would be. And the creation stories are obvious nonsense.

              It’s not much of a defence to say some other killers “might” be Christian church-goers. When do you hear about them all saying they did it for Jesus?

              What ongoing terrorist attacks have Westboro Church or the Moonies members carried out?

  2. robertguyton

     /  February 18, 2018

    Unbelievable!
    Another day’s gone by and Turei still hasn’t paid WINZ back!!!
    After all we said!
    Come on team, join the chorus (you lead, Traveller):
    Thief!
    Thief!
    Thief!
    (Of course, we don’t know whether she’s paid WINZ back or not, but that doesn’t matter!)
    Thief!
    Thief!
    Thief!
    (Good work, Team. Special thanks to Pete for his brave work)..

    • Gezza

       /  February 18, 2018

      Why do you want to continue the pillorying?

      • robertguyton

         /  February 18, 2018

        ” Once locked into the mechanism, the prisoner would be pelted with rotten eggs, vegetables or even excrement by members of the public. Unbelievably, this provided a form of popular entertainment.”

        • Gezza

           /  February 18, 2018

          Yes. But why do you want to continue provoking her pillorying?

          Are you continuing some kind of vendetta against the blog host?

          • robertguyton

             /  February 18, 2018

            “Continuing”?
            Nicely loaded.
            And do you rather mean, “provoke those who pilloried her”?

          • Gezza

             /  February 18, 2018

            Loaded? Like many of your comments?
            No, genuine question.

            And do you rather mean, “provoke those who pilloried her”?
            Same thing. Has the effect of extending what you claim to be against. So why are you doing it?

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              Gezza. By using the word “continuing”, you’re implying that I already have “some kind of vendetta against the blog host”, which I don’t. Can you see how your question is loaded, in the “have you stopped beating…” style. Words, they interest me.

            • Gezza

               /  February 18, 2018

              Absolutely. Words interest me too.
              Ok, I hear what you say. I don’t know your respective histories. I’ll watch & see.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              Thank you, Gezza.

        • Zedd

           /  February 18, 2018

          I said that yesterday RG, ‘the days of public lambasting & putting people in the stocks/pilary’ is looooong gone. BUT there are still some that want to see this mentality return; what next ‘angry mobs with flaming torches’ running her out of town; could be a election campaign idea for 2020, for the ‘Alt-right’ ?? :/

          • PartisanZ

             /  February 18, 2018

            The e-Pillary …?

            “Rotten Tomatoes” … ?

            Tar and Reddit Feather …?

            Whale Oil Mud Wrestle … ?

            Slang, drawer and pigeonhole …

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 18, 2018

          I imagine that Ms Turei and the Greens would have broadcast it had she done so.

    • Gerrit

       /  February 18, 2018

      Sounds like round 1 went to the chihuahua’s and the Robert is back for round 2.

      So has she paid it back?

      One does have to query Robet’s obsession with the subject.

      • robertguyton

         /  February 18, 2018

        Yes, Gerrit, round one was easily won by the “excrement throwers” – how could they lose? The woman’s locked in a pillory, after all and who would defend her with all that crap flying about?
        You ask, has she paid it back?
        Well, Gerrit, do you know?
        Surely you wouldn’t be flinging stuff without knowing the facts?
        You are welcome to query my interest in the issue. Metiria’s a friend of mine and I respond vigorously to public beatings of the sort Pete facilitated yesterday.

        • Gerrit

           /  February 18, 2018

          That is the problem and it is staring you in the face. Surely you must see that?

          She wont say if she has or not therefore anyone can derive any decision or opinion from her non disclosure.

          Turei is your friend and as her friend, I would suggest you tell her the power to clear this up is in her hands.

          Until she does the chihuahua will nip at her feet.

          Bit like you and in regards Barclay/English.

          • robertguyton

             /  February 18, 2018

            You feel that Metiria owes you an explanation? She should declare to you, her state of affairs?
            Why?
            Are you and your fellow pillorors (?) deserving of something?

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              And do you feel the same way about Todd Barclay? That he should ‘fess up to me about his secret recordings etc? Maybe Bill could come clean to me as well. I’m not asking such a thing.

        • Gerrit

           /  February 18, 2018

          Can chihuahua’s throw excrement? Don’t think their legs are long enough. But if the target is low to the ground, who knows?

          • robertguyton

             /  February 18, 2018

            They can when they stand up on their teeny back legs and really try! Once they’ve whipped each other into a frenzy, the stuff flies everywhere (including all over themselves, dirty dogs!)

    • Richard

       /  February 18, 2018

      You are clearly deranged

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 18, 2018

        She owes the people whose money she stole an explanation.

        • robertguyton

           /  February 18, 2018

          She’s already explained, at length. Are you deaf?

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 18, 2018

            When did she tell us that she has repaid the money ? Many people seem to have missed that.

  3. Gerrit

     /  February 18, 2018

    Remember Robert, this all started from the Green policy that no beneficiary would be held to account if they told porkies to WINZ for extra funding.

    The strategy was for Turei to lead this Greens initiative by saying she did it, and as such ir was OK.

    The strategy backfired spectacularly as the true picture emerged in regards Turei’s actual situation.

    Turei publicised her use of deceit to support the Greens policy and put it in the “public domain” and made it in the “public interest” to know if she paid any claims she made.

    So advice your friend to front up and let us know where negotiations are with WINZ.

    If WINZ is stalling we need to know. If Turei is stalling we need to know as well.

    I can understand you defending the Green party, but surely even you can see that the “free for all” beneficiary policy would not win any votes and the strategy to promote the policy totally festooned with fishhooks.

    • robertguyton

       /  February 18, 2018

      Gerrit – I’m arguing none of that. My argument is that Pete’s post is nothing more than gratuitous, unnecessary stirring-up of his chihuahua’s at Metiria’s expense. There is no up-date, no news, no need for a re-hash. I’ve not defended the Green Party, made no comment on the rights or wrongs; I’m saying, this is nothing more than an invitation to the mob to rant. You assume too, too much in positioning me in the argument. What I find the most interesting is how some people here play both roles; mine and theirs, and don’t address what is actually said, rather, they attack what they imagine the other might believe.

      • Gerrit

         /  February 18, 2018

        Whilst your defence is admirable, your execution is way off.

        You go from belittling the blog host, to belittling (to chihuahua level) people that visit his blog.

        You are denying the right for a mob have a rant? Democracy much?

        What next, only princess talk allowed?

        The tide is on a slight turn if the by election result in our local deepest dark and Labour stronghold, Manurewa for the ACC is anything to go by. Labour out, Manurewa Action Team (national) in.

        Led by the hugely able Daniel Newman (remember that name for the future) and Judith Collins. (parts of Manurewa are in the Collins Papakura electorate).

        https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/about-auckland-council/elections/Pages/Manurewa-Local-Board-by-election.aspx

        • robertguyton

           /  February 18, 2018

          Denying the right for the mob to rant? Hardly. But I’m not the kind of guy who stands meekly by while they do, especially when they do so mindlessly. Are you trying to stop me involving myself in the melee? Democracy much back at ya.

      • Since it’s you with an almost Tourettesian obsession with this issue, I’ll play

        As Gerrit says this is of public interest and it was Ms Turei who put herself there. She arrogantly imga8ned that her blatant political posturing to argue for an amnesty for thieves would be widely appreciated. Not so!

        Overwhelmingly people were disgusted. When the extent of her relative privilege it came out most of us thought that she needed to be accountable. It seems strange to you, but wanton abuse of an already generous benefit system, meant as safety net for people who find themselves or get themselves into situations they cannot cope with, is abhorrent to many.

        To me there is no difference from me shoplifting from Countdown every excursion or nicking a wallet a week.

        So what’s the delay WINZ and IRD?

        • Blazer

           /  February 18, 2018

          you need to direct your disgust at WINZ or IRD in that case.I must say your values are awfully…selective.

          • Gerrit

             /  February 18, 2018

            WINZ and IRD are bound by privacy laws. They will not make anything public. Only Turei can do that and the sounds of silence leaves a vision that is planted in the brain depending upon ones perspective. Only a word from Turei can break the silence and put right the visions we have.

            “Hello darkness, my old friend
            I’ve come to talk with you again
            Because a vision softly creeping
            Left its seeds while I was sleeping
            And the vision that was planted in my brain
            Still remains
            Within the sound of silence”

            • Blazer

               /  February 18, 2018

              I guess it must be a private matter between Turei and the Depts…then.Try the Daily Mail…full of salacious gossip for you and the other screaming hypocrites.

            • PDB

               /  February 18, 2018

              If Turei was being consistent and not hypocritical she would tell the public what has happened considering it was she who brought the issue into the public domain for political gain. That was her choice to do so & that was when it became a matter of public interest.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              Metiria’s no longer an MP. MYOB PDM.

            • PDB

               /  February 18, 2018

              So she is just a hypocrite then Robert?

              A couple of Green MPs actually quit over her admissions – doesn’t that make the resolving of the issue in the ‘public interest’?

              I think you’ll find it does.

        • robertguyton

           /  February 18, 2018

          Traveller – your views on this issue are of no interest to me whatsoever, such is the level of your bitterness and vitriol.

          • PDB

             /  February 18, 2018

            So what? Don’t read it then? Of all your pointless posts that is right up there.

      • “There is no up-date, no news…”

        This was the point of the post – five months later one of the two biggest events of the election campaign has been left in limbo. Some people are interested in getting answers. That there are no answers yet is significant. I may well raise it again in another few months if there are still no answers.

        In contrast the Barclay thing reached a conclusion, as far as it could be taken. It received a large amount of media attention. Barclay was perfectly within his rights to not answer police questions, like any New Zealand citizen. It is a fundamental right.

        I posted a number of times on the Barclay story at the time. It looked bad for him, even if he committed no offence. A dysfunctional electorate office and disgruntled ex-staff shows there were problems.

        There was a follow up to the story in October when the police announced they would not press charges against Barclay.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/national/election-2011/98366107/No-charges-from-Todd-Barclay-re-investigation-police

        In contrast there has not yet been a follow up to the inquiry into Turei’s admitted offences, nor a follow up to whether she has repaid as promised. So a quite different situation.

        • Blazer

           /  February 18, 2018

          did you think you may have missed an update on whether Meteria had paid any monies….and someone here could enlighten …you?

          • That was one aim. If anyone knew of an update then they would have brought it up. I keep an eye on things but have in no way a comprehensive knowledge of all political news. This is a discussion forum, not Encyclopaedia Zealandia.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              You were fishing in your own pond, hoping someone here might know if there’d been “an up-date”?
              Pffffffffffffffffffft!
              Tui’s abound, the sky is black with them.

          • Gerrit

             /  February 18, 2018

            Care than to enlighten the masses on this update? Would have saved Roberts blood pressure and heaps in irnterwebby 1’s and 0’s.

            If there was an update it surely has not been (in my small exposure to it) in the MSM.

            Question is, if there was an update, are the Greens so ashamed of Turei, they don’t want it broadcast?

            This silence breeds conjecture.

  4. Gerrit

     /  February 18, 2018

    The Manurewa result is interesting from a broader perspective.

    Labour put up a young lady, from out of the local area, and in the mold of an Ardern clone. Full of “Lets Do This” rhetoric.

    Manureawa Action Team put before the public an ex policeman, older, gnarlier, experienced and streetwise representative.

    Princess power on the wane?

    • “Princess power on the wane?”

      Oh dear, the left have quite forgotten that as much as Ardern/Gayford are currently adored for click bait they will be excoriated with the same glee and venom. Yes folks, celebrification reports on everything as clicks diminish. There’s only so much of the first couple of the Nation’s seemingly endless, utterly shameless quest for fame I can take and I see that at least the intellectual face of the media left ( few and far between) are finding it all tiresome too. 😫

      • Blazer

         /  February 18, 2018

        sorted then…you must be howling at the moon…I mean…over the…moon.

    • PDB

       /  February 18, 2018

      Ardern’s ‘popularity’ is somewhat of a myth to begin with considering she couldn’t even get more votes than an older man with decades in parliament & in the very last preferred PM poll prior to the election wasn’t even first choice as PM.

      Yes, her being made PM is all legit but it came down to another older bloke in Winston to bestow that title upon her when if he had gone with National they would have actually been representing a larger % of the voting public than the new govt does.

      Currently the new govt has backtracked on most of their election promises and is attempting to run the economy as National was hence no need for people to be alarmed.

      • Blazer

         /  February 18, 2018

        her popularity is real…and its with you every day.

        • PDB

           /  February 18, 2018

          She’ll be popular if she keeps running the economy like National did, Winston continues to work behind the scenes and the new govt continues to renege on their election promises.

          • Zedd

             /  February 18, 2018

            more Tory ‘Bluff & Bluster’ PDB..
            ‘She’ll be popular if she keeps running the economy like National did,’. what a load of B-S !

            • PDB

               /  February 18, 2018

              I must have missed all those big taxes on ‘rich p***ks’ then Zedd? How about that water tax on ‘rich farmers’, no. No TPPA? that’s signed. Big reductions in immigration? Not a priority apparently. The National govt left the economy in bad order? Not according to official figures that just came out and Grant Robertson.

              Zedd in denial? Yep.

            • Zedd

               /  February 18, 2018

              @pdb

              URR ???
              more tory waffle.. the real denial is still from the NEW opposition !

  5. robertguyton

     /  February 18, 2018

    “Ardern’s ‘popularity’ is somewhat of a myth”
    Dream on. She’s enormously popular. The Vogue cover will make her popularity soar to stellar heights. Suck it up, PDM. Your people are no-bodies.

    • PDB

       /  February 18, 2018

      Not sure why you always deliberately write my user name incorrectly – some sort of juvenile behavior? You’re sounding more rabid and unhinged by the day Robert – more herbal tea required I think.

      Must be hard for you to vote for a ‘change govt’ that is doing it’s best to copy the success of the previous National govt. Wouldn’t want to rock the economic boat would they?

      • robertguyton

         /  February 18, 2018

        [Deleted, deliberately using incorrect user name. It is simple to use people’s correct usernames and avoids escalations and sly provocations. PG]

        • PDB

           /  February 18, 2018

          I’ve never posted on ‘Keeping Stock’, so not sure what the hell you are prattling about now??

          Sounds like more of your nonsense in trying to disrupt/discredit/spam this blog & its regular contributors.

          • robertguyton

             /  February 18, 2018

            In that case, I’ll call you “PDB”.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 18, 2018

              Dream on-she was in an article, not on the cover.

            • PDB

               /  February 18, 2018

              Thank you – if you don’t like ‘Bob’, ‘Robert’ or ‘Guyton’ let me know.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 18, 2018

              And hands up those who think that the photo had something done to it.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              Composed? Taken? Developed? Cropped? Selected from a series? Printed?
              Hands-up those who don’t think the photo had something done to it.
              Jeez, Kitty, you’re so catty!

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              For Kitty

              “Ms Gomes told The AM Show on Monday morning she had been cautioned about his tendency to touch women’s hair.

              “Everyone was telling me, I didn’t hear about it, but everyone was warning me he might pull my ponytail,” she said.

              “My hair wasn’t in a ponytail, it was actually out – I was just like, you know what, I’m gonna have my hair out today.”

            • Missy

               /  February 18, 2018

              Kitty, of course the photo had something done to it, Vogue are very well known for photoshopping all their photos, and if they photoshop someone like Gigi Hadid then I am pretty sure they would photoshop Jacinda.

  6. duperez

     /  February 18, 2018

    Meanwhile on planet earth some good people who went to university with my offspring in Dunedin where Turei did whatever she did, got $200 a week (approx.) allowance they didn’t have to pay back. Gratis because their parents had low incomes, in a lot of cases because they had set up trusts disguising their income.

    But time moves on and now those honourable people have moved on to honourable professions like lawyering and will set things up as best they can to ensure their own offspring have an easy trip through life. That gives them much more time to concentrate on the big issues like rip-off merchants, ripping off the system. Their high-powered education sees them well-suited to be appropriate arbiters of morality, honour and thievery.

  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 18, 2018

    As if Turei didn’t have enough problems she also has Robert as a friend and defender. Castles in the clouds for them but Robert pulls up his drawbridge when Blazer shoots at Bennett.

    Since Julie Anne is pregnant too we can celebrate handing power and responsibility to the tired and harassed parents of young children. How could that go wrong?

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 18, 2018

      The House will become a de facto creche, with the mothers breastfeeding and nappy-changing for all to see.

    • Gezza

       /  February 18, 2018

      I see this is her third pregnancy & that she lost the first two through miscarriages. I wish her & the baby well.

      • Blazer

         /  February 18, 2018

        is she going with Womans Day,or has New Idea…got the…scoop?

        • Gezza

           /  February 18, 2018

          No idea. Keep an eye out at your local dairy.

          • Blazer

             /  February 18, 2018

            ‘No Idea’….the vernacular for…New Idea…v gd.

            • robertguyton

               /  February 18, 2018

              Judith needs to fall pregnant in order to have even the slimmest chance.

    • robertguyton

       /  February 18, 2018

      Julie-Anne Genter’s pregnant – Traveller! Golden opportunity to vent your spleen – again!!
      Genter’s Green, but the whisper is, she’ll eventually go into Labour.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 18, 2018

        hee !

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 18, 2018

          It was presented as a wonderful surprise-haven’t these women worked out yet what’s causing it ?