Trump proposes more guns to combat too many guns

President Donald trump has a proposal to combat shootings in schools – let teachers carry concealed handguns. In a country with far too many firearms and far too many killings, he has proposed more firearms.

He said this in front of people who went to the White House to implore him to do something to prevent more shootings.

In the shooting in Las Vegas last October where 58 people were killed and 851 injured, concealed handguns were no use.

Chicago Tribune: Trump’s solution for school shootings: arm teachers, post veterans with guns

Seated between teenage survivors of the Florida school shooting, President Donald Trump said during an Oval Office listening session Wednesday that arming teachers and posting gun-toting veterans in schools could deter or stop school shooters.

His comments came during an emotional meeting that included Vice President Mike Pence, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, and school-shooting survivors and families who had lost children to gun violence, including a father who buried his daughter just last week. They poured out grief and anger over the lack of efforts to stem school shootings.

Trump talked about strengthening background checks and increasing mental health resources. But his most pointed and specific remarks came when he spoke about adding security to schools by arming teachers and posting gun-equipped veterans.

Trump posited that if Aaron Feis, a popular football coach, has been armed, he could have stopped the gunman who killed Feis and 16 others last week at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

“If the coach had a firearm in his locker when he ran at this guy – that coach was very brave, saved a lot of lives, I suspect – but if he had a firearm he would not have had to run. He would have shot and that would be the end of it,” Trump said.

He then proposed to arm 20 percent of schoolteachers and to hire veterans as armed school guards.

“A teacher would have a concealed gun on them. They’d go for special training and they would be there and you would no longer be a gun-free zone,” Trump said. He suggested that an armed teacher on campus could reach a school shooter faster than responding police officers. “You’d have a lot of people that would be armed, that’d be ready.”

His proposal to make 20 percent of public schoolteachers ready to fire back at a school shooter would mean training and arming about 640,000 people nationwide.

I’m not sure how much ongoing training the 640,000 armed teachers would require. There’s also likely to be a reluctance by many teachers and schools to become armed fortresses.

The idea got a warm reception among some parents, but was met with swift backlash from teachers’ groups nationwide.

“Bringing more guns into our schools does nothing to protect our students and educators from gun violence. Our students need more books, art and music programs, nurses and school counselors; they do not need more guns in their classrooms,” said Lily Eskelsen Garcia, president of the National Education Association, the largest teachers union. The group represents 3 million educators in K-12 schools and on college campuses. “We need solutions that will keep guns out of the hands of those who want to use them to massacre innocent children and educators. Arming teachers does nothing to prevent that.”

“This is bar none, the worst theory of action I’ve ever heard,” said Shanna Peeples, a former educator who worked in Texas when she won the 2015 National Teacher of the Year award. She shared her thoughts on Twitter. “Texas law allows schools to arm their teachers. That’s not a good thing. None of us are trained to respond to threats in the way law enforcement is.”

Strictly limiting the number of high capacity assault weapons that can be bought and owned would be a more sensible approach.

44 Comments

  1. Griff

     /  February 22, 2018

    To many deaths from guns.
    I know lets have more guns.
    Conservative USA.
    Brought and paid for by the NRA.

    For the usual suspects who thinks arming teachers is a good idea.
    Rambo was a MOVIE .

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 22, 2018

      And if 20% of teachers are to have them, 80% WON’T.

      How will this stop shooters doing it through windows, which I believe has happened ?

      How will it stop them firing through doors as this one did ? It’s sheer chance that the incredibly heroic boy who held the door shut with his body, saving 20 classmates and taking five bullets himself wasn’t killed.

      By the time someone had run to their locker and back, the shooter, who’s not going to politely hold fire during this time, will have killed many more.

      • Corky

         /  February 23, 2018

        You really are ignorant about guns and situational self defence. Remember, I suggested arming teachers before it was mooted. The comes from awareness of situational self defence. To many people are commenting on things they know nothing about. No wonder the NRA gets pissed off. It’s not their fault society has changed, so we now have more nutters per square kilometre than ever before.

        • Corky

           /  February 23, 2018

          * That* * Then*

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 23, 2018

          Rubbish. It was suggested years ago and in some places it has happened. Some teachers are armed and the idea that schools have armed security guards was proposed a long time ago.

          If society has changed, it’s time that the NRA realised this. That is the weakest argument that you have made so far.

          • Corky

             /  February 23, 2018

            ”Rubbish. It was suggested years ago and in some places it has happened.”

            News to me. I know individual teachers carry guns for personal protection, but not as part of a school wide initiative. However, I may be wrong.

            ”If society has changed, it’s time that the NRA realised this. That is the weakest argument that you have made so far.”

            Don’t you get it, this is why the founding fathers wrote the second amendment. They realised the future world may change for the worst, either through thuggery or impotent naive fools not realising what was afoot. And the best way to defend against both is a gun

            Remember General Eisenhower? I think he was the one who surveyed pile upon pile of dead Jewish bodies at a concentration camp, and told a cameraman to get it on film because sometime in the future some ‘bastard’ will say it never happened.

            Just as that action counters holocaust deniers, the second amendment counters thugs, the government and fools who want to mess with the right to defend yourself.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 23, 2018

              I have heard of Eisenhower, but don’t actually remember him as he was long before my time. His wish to record the evidence of the German mass murders is totally irrelevant to a school massacre more than seventy years later.

              You have no idea what the Founding Fathers had in mind. I would be very surprised if they had it in mind that loonies would be able to buy weapons normally used in war and do so legally in order to commit massacres. The Florida killer was not defending himself.

              Why was his right to buy these weapons more important than the 17 people’s right to go to school and come home alive rather than in a coffin ?

              Your position is indefensible.

            • Corky

               /  February 24, 2018

              ”His wish to record the evidence of the German mass murders is totally irrelevant to a school massacre more than seventy years later.”

              I didn’t say it was relevant. I was making a point about forethought, and how at the time some actions may seem ridiculously out of place. However, down the track such forethought is vindicated.

              ”You have no idea what the Founding Fathers had in mind.” Yes, I do. The Second Amendment of the American Constitution. As a product of its time,flawed in some ways, it’s still a great testament to understanding human nature..and the need to defend against its vagaries.

              ”I would be very surprised if they had it in mind that loonies would be able to buy weapons normally used in war ”

              That is a pathetic point, and you know it.

              ‘Why was his right to buy these weapons more important than the 17 people’s right to go to school and come home alive rather than in a
              coffin ?

              If you don’t understand why; I can’t help you. Why does the right of people to buy cars come at the expense of cyclists killed by cars?

              ”Your position is indefensible.”

              Hoping to close the debate with a factually incorrect summation?

    • Corky

       /  February 23, 2018

      What’s wrong with the NRA?

  2. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 22, 2018

    Back in 1970 my introduction to North America radio news was an item where a student who was chasing his astronomy professor around a Texas observatory with a gun until the professor drew his and killed him.

    That wasn’t a movie.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 22, 2018

      One incident, 48 years ago. One is too small a sample to prove anything.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 22, 2018

        No it isn’t. It proved it happens.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 22, 2018

          It does, but it’s hardly in the same league as the Florida massacre and the other massacres.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 22, 2018

      Another one I remember with “it wouldn’t happen here then” culture shock was a guy who ran towards cops shouting “Kill me” so they did.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 22, 2018

        We are talking about school massacres.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  February 22, 2018

          You are talking about school massacres. I am talking about a gun culture that differs from what you have experienced.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 22, 2018

        In Bombay, as someone I know who’s from there calls it, the element of surprise meant that (was it 10 ? ) terrorists held a city to ransom for some time, by cleverly giving the impression that there were many more. It was like a totally unfunny version of the chapter in The Wind in the Willows where Mole and the others burst in on the weasels in Toad Hall, making them think that there are many more than four..

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 22, 2018

          I haven’t lived in the US and experienced these things, but my parents were from Ulster. My mother and stepfather were shot at during one visit home, and my mother and aunt were in my aunt’s ‘bach’ when the bomb that killed Mountbatten went off, blowing the door in and damaging the house. Violence is part of what I grew up knowing about, it was part of life that we heard about from the relations who still lived there. If you went out with someone from the ‘other side’, you risked having your kneecaps shot off. And so on.

    • Gezza

       /  February 22, 2018

      2nd Amendment Gun Culture madness. The teacher needed a gun because the kid had one. Guns everywhere. That place is gonna end up like the Middle East. All we can do is continue to watch them shoot each other. To feed the NRA’s armaments interests.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 22, 2018

        Trump will be like the old man and the donkey,

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 22, 2018

          The next shooting must be about due to happen.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 22, 2018

        Gezza, have you seen the NRA’s own website ?

        It has to be seen to be believed.

        • Gezza

           /  February 22, 2018

          I just had a look. It’s an alt right & gun manufacturers advertising site.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 22, 2018

    At least two school districts in Texas have armed teachers, both in remote parts of the state. Their superintendents have defended the policies, saying their educators are prepared to respond if a gunman arrives on campus, according to KXAN-TV.

    Seems Texas hasn’t changed in that regard.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 22, 2018

      Tha’s assuming that the shooter isn’t armed with a machine gun and doesn’t come in firing it.

      It could be extremely false security.

    • Gezza

       /  February 22, 2018

      Some teacher’s association rep commented on Aljaz tv earlier today that when this idea was raised by the NRA’s gun lobby’s cronies some time before, as it usually is after every school shooting since Sandy Hook, she spoke to a group of New York police officials about it.

      She said they told her that even with their training their officers only had an 18% hit rate when dealing with active shooters, & they expected armed teachers acting under the same incredible stress that comes with this situation to be far less likely to hit an active shooter than that.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 22, 2018

        Likewise the active shooter presumably has a similar hit/miss rate. Best fire 5 shots then.

        • Gezza

           /  February 22, 2018

          This last guy did do well because he had the element of surprise, an AR15, was often up close, & was constantly on the move – as usual. Others kill lots of students for similar reasons – or because it just happens so quickly – they whip out a gun and kill & wound a half dozen classmates around them in an instant.

          My nephew’s a teacher, married another American teacher over in Maryland. I think of them every time school shootings happen there. What teachers here would have to expect to do active shooter drills at school and to carry guns?

          It’s a sick country – as far as its gun lobby controlling its politicians goes. These mass shootings are increasingly going to be the price they pay. It’s regressing to the wild west. The only people really rubbing their hands are the crims, the Rambos & especially – the arms manufacturers & sellers.

          • duperez

             /  February 22, 2018

            I’m trying to think of how all this is going to make the United States great again.

            • Gezza

               /  February 22, 2018

              It isn’t. There’s been a misunderstanding. It’s making it grate again.

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 22, 2018

              Well, if a ‘grate’ might be considered a solid surface perforated by many holes … ?

        • Patzcuaro

           /  February 22, 2018

          @Alan the NBA are mad and so are you.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  February 22, 2018

            What a sick nation if you have yo arm teachers, and they claim to be leaders of the free world. Free to be mad that is about all.

          • Patzcuaro

             /  February 22, 2018

            NRA

          • Gezza

             /  February 22, 2018

            Their basketballers are overpaid, but they’re ok. It’s the NRA that are the arseholes. They’re not mad – they’re bad.

        • Griff

           /  February 22, 2018

          Yes Alan.
          Mall ninja.
          Handgun vrs Ar15 clone
          Ones low power and needs proper technique to be accurately used.
          The other is designed to spray bullets in warfare can easily be fired from the hip or when moving .
          Glock 17 4.5″ barrel 1,230 ft/s 9mm effective range 50 m
          Ar15 20 ” barrel ‎3,150 ft/s 5.6mm effective range 550m

          High velocity AR15 round does lots more damage .
          The ar15 bullet disintegrates transferring all energy to target . Neat entry Messy internal bits.
          Glock bullet can penetrate further but transfers less energy. neat hole in and out intact round. .

          Teach is hunting elephants with a pea shooter.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  February 23, 2018

            Don’t think you can whip an AR15 out of your pocket as Gezza suggests. Nor is arming teachers Trump’s only proposal. Stopping homicidal juveniles having AR15’s is also on his agenda.

            • Gezza

               /  February 23, 2018

              Doesn’t solve the ongoing problem of homicidal adults having AR15s, does it?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 23, 2018

              That’s what his immigration policy is about, Sir Gerald.

            • Gezza

               /  February 23, 2018

              Doesn’t stop the US-born shooters though.

              Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

              Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
              Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
              June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
              Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
              June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
              March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
              May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
              Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
              Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
              June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
              Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
              Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
              Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

              Those are just the mass shootings. They’re selling like hot cakes because they’re so customisable & sexy to Rambo types. Go look at the front page of the execrable NRA’s website.

  4. PartisanZ

     /  February 22, 2018

    “Trump proposes more guns to combat too many guns”

    That’s gotta be the absolute epitome of a corporate-capitalist solution …

    More roads to combat too many cars … More cars to combat too much pollution …

  5. Joe Bloggs

     /  February 23, 2018

    American teachers who refuse to carry guns at school present far more compelling arugments than the gun-happy idiots who would arm them:

    I’m a teacher, I’ve broken up fights and I’ve stopped fights from starting. Thankfully, I’ve never faced an armed student. But I’ve considered that possibility. When I look around most classrooms, I see folding partition walls, single-paned windows, and unlocked doors. These make schools vulnerable to shooters, but they also make students vulnerable to teachers with guns.

    I will never have a gun in the classroom, and if required to, I would resign.

    Since I was a teenager, I’ve shot many kinds of guns: handguns, shotguns, rifles—and an AR-15. They each have different characteristics, but they’re all capable of piercing a typical high school wall or window. If teachers are armed, all of those teachers must be able to instantly think like Joe Zamudio: Will my bullet hit the right target? Is that person who is waving a gun around the shooter, or could it be the person who just pulled the gun out of the shooter’s hand (like in Tucson)? What if I miss? Where does the bullet stop? How many of those skinny walls and windows will the bullet pierce before it drops? If I’m firing a high-powered gun, will the bullet pass through the shooter and hit another student? And will the police think I’m the shooter if they see me with a gun?

    These are not hypotheticals. These are real considerations trained police officers face when dealing with active shooters. But teachers aren’t cops. Even with the cursory gun training some politicians have suggested, teachers would lack the real-world experience of a full-time officer. Police also keep their guns secured—another aspect of their training. If, let’s say, a million teachers have guns, how many will be left unsecured by irresponsible teachers? If it’s even 1 percent, that means 10,000 handguns could be near the reach of children every day.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/ive-shot-plenty-of-guns-id-never-bring-one-to-my-classroom?ref=home