Debate on guns in US schools

The Parkland, Florida shooting last week has stirred up debate about access to firearms and gun violence, a major problem in the United States.

From the Gun Violence Archive 2018:

  • Total number of incidents 7,803
  • Number of deaths 2,138
  • Number of injuries 3,651
  • Deaths from mass shootings 34
  • Deaths from defensive use 224
  • Unintentional shooting 248

Number of deaths, past years:

  • 2014 – 12,556 (271 from mass shootings)
  • 2015 – 13,516 (333 from mass shootings)
  • 2016 – 15,094 (383 from mass shootings)
  • 2017 – 15,594 (346 from mass shootings)

Horrendous and rising alarmingly. Per population, that rate of deaths would equate to about 230 gun deaths per year in New Zealand.

Students across the country are protesting –  After Parkland, Students Across the U.S. Are Holding Protest Walkouts Over Gun Violence

In a wave of demonstrations reaching from Arizona to Maine, students at dozens of U.S. high schools walked out of class Wednesday to protest gun violence and honor the victims of last week’s deadly shooting in Florida.

The protests spread from school to school as students shared plans for their demonstrations over social media. Many lasted 17 minutes in honor of the 17 people killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland.

Hundreds of students from Maryland schools left class to rally at the U.S. Capitol. Hundreds more filed out of their schools in cities from Chicago to Pittsburgh to Austin, Texas, often at the lunch hour. Thousands walked out in Florida.

At the protest in Washington, students held a moment of silence in memory of those killed in Parkland and listened as the names of the dead were recited.

While some groups have worked to organize national demonstrations in the coming weeks, students say gatherings Wednesday were mostly impromptu and organized out of a sense of urgency to find solutions to gun violence.

Many of the protests were accompanied by chants of “Never again,” which has been a rallying cry since the Florida shooting.

However the voice of well organised resistance to gun control has also been heard: NRA’s Wayne LaPierre at CPAC: Gun Control Advocates Are Exploiting the Florida School Shooting Tragedy

Wayne LaPierre, the National Rifle Association’s Executive Vice President, told the Conservative Political Action Conference Thursday that politicians and the media are exploiting the Florida school shooting to expand gun control and ultimately abolish the second amendment, striking a defiant tone in his first public remarks since the mass shooting that killed 17 people and reignited the gun control debate in the U.S. to a fever pitch.

“As usual, the opportunists waited not one second to exploit tragedy for political gain. Chris Murphy, Nancy Pelosi, and more, cheered on by the national media, eager to blame the NRA and call for more government control.”

“They hate the NRA. The elites don’t care one wit about school children. If they truly cared, they would protect them.”

“It’s not a safety issue, it’s a political issue. They care more about control. Their goal is to eliminate the Second Amendment and our firearms freedoms so they can eliminate all individual freedoms.”

“They don’t care if their laws work or not. They just want get more laws to get more control over people. But the NRA, the NRA does care.”

He concluded this year’s speech by reiterating the advice he provided in the wake of Newtown five years ago: “The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

Having less bad guys and less guns would help too.

President Trump has been criticised for proposing to arm thousands of teachers to protect schools. He ‘clarified’ his suggestion on Twitter:

I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC.

What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience – only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions.

There are about 3.2 million public school teachers in the US. 20% of that is 640,000 teachers. That is a lot of people to arm and train to a high level on an ongoing basis.

An armed policeman heard the shooting at Parkland but never went inside. Miami Herald: “A school campus cop heard the gunfire and rushed to the building but never went inside — instead waiting outside for another four agonizing minutes as Cruz continued the slaughter.” He has since resigned. What should one person do in that situation? very difficult to know.

Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

History shows that a school shooting lasts, on average, 3 minutes. It takes police & first responders approximately 5 to 8 minutes to get to site of crime. Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly, before police arrive. GREAT DETERRENT!

If a potential “sicko shooter” knows that a school has a large number of very weapons talented teachers (and others) who will be instantly shooting, the sicko will NEVER attack that school. Cowards won’t go there…problem solved. Must be offensive, defense alone won’t work!

Armed police and offensive tactics have not solved a huge death toll from gun violence in the US.

And teachers don’t seem to be very keen.

The culture of gun ownership and gun violence in the US is so ingrained and staunchly defended it is hard to see any easy fixes, especially when the President proposes escalation.

And when the NRA is so financially influential in US politics.

When 17-year-old student Cameron Kasky took the microphone at CNN’s town hall on Wednesday night, he put Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio on the spot when he asked: Would you refuse to accept further campaign donations from the National Rifle Association?

After a moment, Rubio gave his answer: No, he wouldn’t.

Rubio has been on the receiving end of some of the largest financial support from the NRA over the years.
His hesitancy to distance himself from the organization shows how many in Congress have come to rely on the NRA’s largesse to help them remain in office — and their fear of crossing a group legendary for its ability to get its supporters out to vote.

According to federal election data compiled by the nonprofit Center for Responsive Politics, eight lawmakers have been on the receiving end of at least $1 million in campaign contributions from the NRA over the courses of their careers, Rubio among them.

 

 

 

87 Comments

  1. artcroft

     /  February 24, 2018

    That last image is brilliant.

    • Corky

       /  February 24, 2018

      The last of the frontiersmen, Arty. Soon them wild open plains where you shot many a poor soul will be hemmed in by the barbedwire of liberal conformity. Them colts will grow rust as you grow old in a square box down some nondescript cul-de-sac leading to nowhere.

      • Gezza

         /  February 24, 2018

        😮 Shit. That’s quite good writing Corks. When’s your promised book on Lurchy coming out? 😳

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          Poor old colts. I’ve never seen a rusty horse.
          .

          • Corky

             /  February 24, 2018

            From your posts, it would seem you haven’t seen much of anything.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 24, 2018

              What a loser. How many countried have you been in ? How many languages have you learned ? Moron.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 24, 2018

              countries.

              I have been in at least 13; I may have forgotten one or two. Lived in four, been in 9 others. Have you ?

              Can you read Colette and Zola in the original French ? I can.

              I suspect that I have seen, read and know a lot more than you have and do. So stop trying to be clever at my expense, it won’t work, espece de cul que tu es.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 24, 2018

              Still waiting….Corks is probably frantically trying to invent something, afraid that if he names something I will know that he’s made it up.

            • Corky

               /  February 24, 2018

              To be truthful, I’m eating KFC.. splashe with ACV.

            • Corky

               /  February 24, 2018

              *d*

  2. unitedtribes2

     /  February 24, 2018

    Comparing USA with NZ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
    USA have 1.07 guns per population whereas NZ has 30 per 100 people. still quite high.
    I believe that most of the guns in USA are owned by a few people. (don’t know the stats)
    Per 100,000 pop NZ deaths are only 1.07 whereas USA are 10.54
    However in USA 59% of these are suicides in NZ 78% are.
    30% of gun deaths in USA are homicides and only 10% in NZ
    It would be interesting to know how many deaths there would be without guns

    • unitedtribes2

       /  February 24, 2018

      How many Americans actually own a gun? A 2016 study by Harvard and Northeastern University put the total number of privately-owned firearms in the U.S. at 265 million, with more than half of that – 133 million – being concentrated in the hands of just 3% of Americans, called “super owners,” who have an average of 17 guns each.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 24, 2018

        That doesn’t allow for illegally owned guns.

        I once saw a 20/20 or 60 Minutes item where one or two young-looking journalists went to a respectable, middle-class high school as supposed pupils..When they had been there a little while, they sent out feelers about buying guns…they had no trouble. We saw them being offered a choice from a car boot by the nice, white, middle-class children from ‘leafy suburbs’.

        The school was deliberately chosen as not being the obvious kind where such things happened.

  3. Kitty Catkin

     /  February 24, 2018

    It’s more or less one death from a mass shooting a day, not to mention injuries.

    I wonder what the cost in lost production is, quite apart from the social and mental costs.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 24, 2018

      Five sad, sick creeps, what a shame that YNZ attracts these gutless wonders. The stupid pricks even downtick statistics when I quote them. How pathetic.

  4. Chuck Bird

     /  February 24, 2018

    “An armed policeman heard the shooting at Parkland but never went inside. Miami Herald: “A school campus cop heard the gunfire and rushed to the building but never went inside — instead waiting outside for another four agonizing minutes as Cruz continued the slaughter.” He has since resigned. What should one person do in that situation? very difficult to know.”

    I wonder what sort of gun the campus cop had. He would have to be a big one to match a AR15. I wonder what the war hero president would have done if he was in the same position as the cop.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 24, 2018

      Oh, Trump would have raced in and killed the gunman, of course, before the latter had had the chance to kill anyone. Trambo.

      If the cop/security guard had gone in with what I imagine was a handgun, he would have had to track the killer and shoot him before the boy turned the AR15 on him. It’s unlikely that he could have stopped it. He could even have been better to remain outside reporting to the police whose weapons were likely to be of some use.

      Who knows what any of us would do ? Well, I know what I wouldn’t have done, I wouldn’t have been like the boy who took five bullets as he held the door shut with his body against the killer or like the teacher who gave his own life to save the children.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 24, 2018

        Chuck, have you read the interview with Trump where he says that his ‘personal Vietnam’ was having sex with countless women and never catching an STD from their minefields (genitalia) ? Hecalls himself a ‘(war ?) hero and expands upon this in a way that shows his attitude to women and sex in a very disturbing light, not that we needed confirmation of this.

      • duperez

         /  February 24, 2018

        Trump wouldn’t have said stuff like that in a interview. No person in the public eye would say that. Regardless of the attitude the behaviour which it was about shows, the attitude of publicly flaunting it would only happen if the person was a moronic f’wit.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          He bloody did. Look it up.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          He’s on video SAYING IT. So he must indeed be a moronic fuckwit. Look up Trump’s own Vietnam or something like that. He boasts about it and says that it’s a dangerous world out there !

    • Corky

       /  February 24, 2018

      ”I wonder what sort of gun the campus cop had. He would have to be a big one to match a AR15”

      He would’ve been armed with a pistol – no match for AR15. However, he should have known every inch of that school. That was his responsibility, his killing zone. He should have ”quick processed” where the shooting was coming from and where he had to be to gain tactical advantage over the shooter.

      He should have been over this scenario time and again on the tactical shooting range, preferably with live fire and sound effects.

      I can’t be in the mind of this cop, but it seems to me he had a badge, lax attitude and was a 9 to 3 time filler. When the shit hit the fan his intellect and courage shut down. I don’t think it ever dawned on him the lives of pupils and teachers were his responsibility.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  February 24, 2018

        You say that you can’t be in the mind of this cop, and then proceed to do so. Needless to say in the worst possible way and putting the nastiest slant on it. As one would expect from someone like you who has probably fired nothing more powerful than a pop gun.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          I bet that you would have been last seen hightailing it as far away as you could go. All talk and no do.

        • Corky

           /  February 24, 2018

          ”You say that you can’t be in the mind of this cop, and then proceed to do so. ”

          Seems: definition.

          ”To appear to one’s own senses, mind, observation, judgement, etc”

          You seem to be getting nasty. A sure sign your skewered arguments have hit a brick wall. That’s to be expected from a closeted liberal who posts on something they know zilch about.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 24, 2018

            Who used the word seems ? You. You have not answered my point, which is that you say that you are not going to do something and then do so.

            The word you want is skewed, not skewered.

            • Corky

               /  February 24, 2018

              Your point is invalid… I said I couldn’t get in side this man’s head. That’s factual. That doesn’t stop me from guessing, or drawing conclusion from my ”own mind.”

              And, no, the word is skewered.

              noun:

              A long pin of wood or metal for inserting through meat or other food to hold or bind it in cooking.

              Now it takes a little imagination ( that you haven’t got) to bridge the gap between that definition and my comments.

              Really, Kitty. You aren’t as bright as you think. You may be a better speller than me( who isn’t), but your IQ is mediocre at best.

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              I’m not sure that IQ really is that i,portant in the ocerall scheme of things. I expect mine’s up there above dunderhead level because I got streamed into the bright boys’s classes at school after the IQ test.

              But whatever. I find the warm exchanges of anti-pleasantries between the two of you very entertaining.

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              Whoops
              *important
              *overall
              Gotta be more on the ball with the proof-reading with this FiP!

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  February 25, 2018

              Your use of the word skewered is meaningless in this context, Corky, Argument is abstract. You are trying, with childish personal abuse, to justify your wrong usage. It’s not just your spelling that is at fault, it’s your vocabulary. Someone tells you that you are mistaken, so you launch into the sort of wannabe sarcasm that is what one would expect from a child.

              A skewered argument hitting the wall is gibberish.

              Skewed would make sense if my ideas had been, which they were not,An argument may be skewed, it cannot be skewered.

              How many times will you trot out my supposed lack of imagination ? You seem to imagine that this is withering repartee, but it is isn’t, it is just nonsense.

        • Gezza

           /  February 24, 2018

          There’s an article in today’s Herald somewhere that talks about what happens psychologically to police who freeze up in this situation, before, and after the event, when people who weren’t there, & never would be, are howling for their blood.

          Training for dealng with an active mass shooter is something that needs to be constantly repeated because the standard psychological response of a sensible person is to freeze in place or get away from this sort of danger.

          But the sad point is, Kitty, whatever the circumstances, this man was employed, and accepted a role, that required him to take some action to protect the students by engaging or containing the shooter, & he appears (and so do three other local deputies) not to have done so.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  February 24, 2018

            I know, but who can say for certain what they’d do in any given situation ?

            If the killer had been contained, it might have been even worse. He could only have been contained in a large school building, which would mean that the pupils were also contained in it with a loony carrying and using an automatic weapon. unable to escape from him. If he hadn’t been, he could go into other buildings and kill the people there. What the hell would you do ?

            I bet that the young boy wouldn’t have believed that he could hold a door shut against a much larger boy and keep doing it while the killer was shooting him through it.

            When my mother and stepfather found themselves in the middle of some kind of shootout, with bullets coming at them, they got out of there as fast as they could. They are the only people I know who have been shot at !

          • David

             /  February 24, 2018

            “There’s an article in today’s Herald somewhere that talks about what happens psychologically to police who freeze up in this situation, before, and after the event, when people who weren’t there, & never would be, are howling for their blood.”

            US Police don’t seem to have this freezing up problem when shooting unarmed people, even when in large SWAT teams. Odd.

  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  February 24, 2018

    Pete, the most recent statistic for gun deaths here that I could find was 2014, when there were 5.

    1/46 of the US per capita figure.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 24, 2018

      Moronic downticks from morons again. Morons who do it for no other reason than that I said it, sad, pathetic losers that you are.

      • Corky

         /  February 24, 2018

        Don’t get fixated with ticks. Nobody cares how many ticks you get..up or down.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          You must care or you wouldn’t be saying it, and I suspect that you are responsible for them. Fixated is an absurd word to use here. Again you imagine that you know what someone else is thinking, but needless to say that you don’t.

          • Corky

             /  February 24, 2018

            ”You must care or you wouldn’t be saying it, and I suspect that you are responsible for them.”

            Please stop embarrassing yourself, or I will down-tick you and add to your
            paranoid fixation..about ticks.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 24, 2018

      Three fools disagree with this fact.

  6. Corky

     /  February 24, 2018

    Looking at this debate, its obvious only time will tell who is right. In New Zealand we’ll be able to judge the value of guns for defence much sooner, although by proxy.

    When the next convenience store owner gets murdered while making an honest living, and his family members get bashed trying to defend themselves with a hockey stick, we can ask this question:

    Would this person be alive if he had a holstered weapon? The video footage would provide the answer. Guns are no guarantee. He may have been overwhelmed before he could draw his weapon. The thing is, I could rest easy knowing the victim at least had the means to defend himself.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  February 24, 2018

      Nobody asked you and nobody knows what would have happened.

      You are fixated on this case.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 24, 2018

        It is wrong for the bad guys to have more weapons than the good guys.

        • Gezza

           /  February 24, 2018

          So, you’re in favour of shopowners in NZ being allowed to carry arms & use them, then, Alan?

          What about other ordinary citizens?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  February 24, 2018

            We need to figure out a solution, G. Maybe the smoke cannons are it rather than guns.

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              I don’t know Alan. They showed one demonstrated on 1ewes when Stuart Nash announced the extension of the subsidy for these. They just fill the shop with a fog. Dairy owners’ margins are pretty tight, it doesn’t say what maintence costs there are, & even with the subsidy I imagine a few of them will wonder whether they might place them in more danger.

              The shopkeepers are trapped in the fog with the offenders. If they lose their rag they could still go for the owner.

              It’s a similar problem with Corky’s suggestion they be allowed to carry arms. Even after any other shooting of a dairy owner, that one’s not going to fly here. While it might deter some robbers, there may be others who, if they’ve got a firearm, who may well shoot back.

              I remember the days of community bobbies walking the beat. Just. There were fewer robberies like this, I’m sure. I know times have changed though. We don’t have enuf police out in our communities, engaging, & they’re too isolated in their cars & far off bases from the communities – so they don’t get cooperated with by people in the community with to report petty crimes & crims in the neighbourhoods.

              The other problem is just the total breakdown of any sense of honesty & respect for others among these primarily young offenders. As well as drug addiction, family violence, all the usuals.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  February 24, 2018

              Seem to have been effective so far in several robbery attempts including this latest:
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12000467

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              Had trouble playing that video, had to keep hitting the play button. That’s a break-in to an empty store at night, isn’t it? Got any of a dairy or other place with staff during the day?

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              Still mainly footage of break-in attacks, rather than walk-in ones. The only one showing a smoke cannon in use while staff are in the shop is an advertising clip from a supplier – so may be staged. But yes, they do look to be very effective for deterring late-night robberies at Z stations.

              I found this commentary interesting in the first stuff article:

              “They prove to be very, very effective from discouraging people – even if they get into the site they leave pretty quickly once that goes off as their visibility goes to zero.

              “You literally can’t see your hand in front of your face.”

              Two or three years ago there were about three reported armed robberies a year, Hill said.

              (Pic: The Z service station in Dinsdale shows the scars of a attempted robbery overnight, with its front door seen laying on the floor.)

              In the last financial year to March 2017 there were 25 reported robberies on Z service stations.

              “Something has fundamentally changed here. There is a level of coordination and organisation to it all, which is very scary.”

              Z had spent $8million installing high grade CCTV cameras and bollards, he said.

              The company were now introducing single cigarette dispensers that only dispensed one packet at a time.

              “For our guys on site this is bloody petrifying. It takes a real toll on them and their families.”

              Young robbers committing these crimes were focused on gaining notoriety, Anderson said.

              “They are driven by greed and a self-centred desire for notoriety amongst their fellow thieves.

              “The individuals care little for their victim’s welfare, for the business owners and employees’ livelihoods, or the wider community.

              “I want to assure the Waikato community that we take this offending very seriously and are absolutely determined to hold each and every one of them accountable.”

      • Corky

         /  February 24, 2018

        ”Nobody asked you and nobody knows what would have happened.”

        It’s called a blog. Get over yourself. And read my post again.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  February 24, 2018

          No, thank you. Once was enough for that drivel.

    • Gezza

       /  February 24, 2018

      There are three dairies in the local shopping village, all owned & operated by Indian immigrants. I use two of them & know & chat to the owners. Both of them are open 7 days a week, from 8am to 8.30pm, alone, & their wives do a stint during the day – on their own.

      When I visited one early in the morning a few days ago the guy said “look at this, Gez” & turned his laptop round for me to see. He was playing the video clip of a dairy robbery in Taita, Lower Hutt, in a stuff article on a recent spate of dairy robberies in the Wellington region. Shaking his head, “he said this is terrible, you know”.

      He was the victim of a robbery attempt in mid-afternoon a few years back. Even he couldn’t remember how many years ago it was: “four…five years, maybe?” It was in the paper. He told me what happened was the guy came in & just walked around, idly chatting to him as he went down the length of the shop.

      The next minute, he said, the guy had raced round the back end of the counter & was right at his side, poking “the biggest knife I’ve ever seen” at his neck. The counter was open at both ends, so the shop-owner immediately bolted out the door into the street, calling for help, & the robber ran out, with nothing, & got away.

      I told him about this forum, & that we often talk about these scary robberies & what a horribly stressful impact it must have on them when they have to just come back in & carry on.

      The local BNZ bank had an armed robbery attempt a couple of years later. Single robber, with a firearm. Bank closed for a day. Police, & later security guard, outside all the rest of that day. Staff there all immediately sent home on paid stress leave, free compulsory counselling provided, temporary staff brought in for several days until they felt able to return to work.

      This guy? Nothing. No counselling. No guard. Couldn’t afford to close the shop. I asked should he & his missus be allowed to arm & defend themselves. Would he want that? He said no. He shouldn’t have to. He thought the police weren’t much help although two of them were there in 20 minutes.

      Did they catch the robber? No. The owner’s a little guy. His lady’s smaller. The robber was a big guy. He just raced down the nearby side alley & disappeared. He had securi-cam footage but it didn’t help because it didn’t show the robber’s face & there was nothing notable about his clothing.

      He didn’t know what should be done to protect them. Maybe more police walking & cruising the streets & townships. I would’ve talked for longer but the shop was filling up with other customers who needed serving.
      … … …
      A few days afterwards I was in the other dairy & chatted to R about that conversation with his competitor. Had he or his wife ever been robbed? “No”. Would he co-operate, or fight back? “I’d fight back!”.

      This guy’s bigger – average height & build. Did he have a weapon – a baseball bat or something? “No – I fight back. They come in here all the time. Kids. They just steal things, sweets, chippies’ just take them & walk out”.

      “I talk to them. Hey – stop that! Put that back! You have to pay for that! Sometimes I grab one. I say why you do that? You not honest! You have no respect! Who teach you this is ok – you know this is wrong!” Next thing I have their family outside, making trouble, threatening me!

      “I call the police. They come quickly. They wasting my time ask me all my details. I say: “Shut up! Why you asking me this nonsense?? Why you not ask this kid these details? Why you tell me I can’t do this? Why you let them bang on my windows, threaten me? Why you not arrest this kid? Why you not tell these people here you can’t steal?! I sick of this.”

      The kids, & the crappy parents, come from the state housing area up the hill. What was interesting, though, as we carried on talking, was that thieving from his shop has reduced. The same kids often come in now & they talk to him, & they pay for things. He told me about a young man who came in not long ago who used to steal stuff. He said “I haven’t seen you for a while. How you?”

      He said the young guy replied, sheepishly, “Aw, I’ve been in prison. 8 months.” The shop-owner said “I told you that would happen, didn’t I?” “Yeah, I know. I’ve had time to think about it. I learnt in there this is wrong. I don’t want to do that any more.” The young guy pays for his purchases now. They’re friends. This dairy owner, a practising Hindu, is giving ratbag kids their moral education.

  7. Gezza

     /  February 24, 2018

    Sources from Coral Springs police have told CNN they were shocked to arrive at the scene of the shooting at a Florida high school to find three Broward County Sheriff’s deputies behind their cars with their weapons drawn.

    The revelation came just a day after the resignation of Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, the school’s armed resource officer, who has also admitted he failed to go into the school and confront the shooter.

    Coral Springs police, under direction from the Broward deputies outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, were quick to enter the building where the shooter was.

    They were later joined by other Broward deputies, as well as an officer from Sunrise, Florida.

    The Coral Springs officers were left “stunned” and “upset” when they found the four original deputies, who were first on the scene, outside hiding behind their cars.

    A report to be released next week will reveal further details about what the Coral Springs police officers observed on the scene.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12001226

  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  February 24, 2018

    America has a lot of guns but the killings are entirely disproportionate to those numbers as you can see from the NZ stats. So cultural factors are overriding simple gun numbers.

    I suspect drugs, crime, cultural and racial conflicts are contributing. Being a cultural melting pot has costs as well as benefits.

  9. NOEL

     /  February 24, 2018

    Interesting Trumps response that the US and Australia have different history so there can be no comparison.
    I’ll substitute NZ

    Here for a AR 15 I require a category A licence with an E endorsement. After familiarisation with the Arms Code, there is background checks and home security check before you go to the gun shop where you register on purchase the firearm with a 5 round capacity magazine. Next step is take to the police to record the serial number.
    All these steps prompted by one owners rampage.
    No further rampages.

    In the US you go into a gun shop and purchase an AR 15, age verification,possible background check later(if funding has been allocated), purchase up to 100 round magazine and enough ammunition to fill it.
    Continual rampages.

    Yup sure is different.

  10. NOEL

     /  February 24, 2018

    Should have added can David and Corky identify why the Ruger design does NOT need
    an E endorsement?

    • David

       /  February 24, 2018

      Because it does not have a pistol grip.

    • David

       /  February 24, 2018

      A Cat

      E Cat

      • NOEL

         /  February 24, 2018

        Which is distracting from my comparison.
        All the AR 15s used in high toll shootings the US would have needed an E licence in NZ.

        • David

           /  February 24, 2018

          It’s the same thing, the only difference is cosmetic.

          • Griff

             /  February 25, 2018

            Military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms
            Are firearms that require an endorsement on your firearms
            licence (E endorsement) and are subject to special
            security conditions. Only an E endorsed person may have
            or use a MSSA and it is an offence for anyone without this
            endorsement to fire one,
            even under supervision. Only
            persons 18 years of age or older can have an endorsement
            for one of these firearms. A permit to procure the MSSA
            must be obtained from an Arms Officer before taking
            possession of it. MSSAs require greater storage security than
            for standard sporting firearms.

            A MSSA is a self-loading rifle or shotgun with one or more
            of the following features:
            • Folding or telescopic butt
            • Magazine that holds,
            or is detachable and has the appearance
            of holding more than 15 cartridges for .22 rimfire
            • Magazine that holds more than 7 cartridges, or is detachable
            and has the appearance of holding more than 10 cartridges
            for other than a .22 rimfire
            • Bayonet lug
            • Pistol grip as defined by regulation
            • Flash suppresser
            You need a permit from the Police to obtain one of these
            firearms.

            • David

               /  February 26, 2018

              Key word; style.

              The definition of an MSSA is a cosmetic one.

        • Gezza

           /  February 24, 2018

          This is quite interesting. We’re not as tightly regulated on guns in NZ as I thought.
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

          • David

             /  February 24, 2018

            New Zealand is one of the most liberal countries when it comes to firearm ownership

            • Gezza

               /  February 24, 2018

              And yet we’re one of the safest when it comes to mass shootings & certainly mass school shootings.

  11. Good read. Thanks for sharing. I have written a blog here which compares school safety in Canada and US. Feel free to comment https://booksmarttutor.com/2018/03/22/keeping-students-and-schools-safe-part-1/