Open Forum – Sunday

25 February 2018

Forum

This post is open to anyone to comment on any topic that isn’t spam, illegal or offensive. All Your NZ posts are open but this one is for you to raise topics that interest you. 

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46 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  February 25, 2018

    A Rightie knows when his time has come. He doesn’t whine or ask the gummit for assistance… he takes his broken heart and moves on. The day Leighton drives down his driveway for the last time, he will be sick to his stomach.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11727965

    • PartisanZ

       /  February 25, 2018

      While others shall rejoice!

      Or perhaps: While others are sick to the stomach – or have empty stomachs – while he is there!

      “A little bit of Italy here” …

      Well, the last thing we’d want HERE is anything Aotearoa New Zealand, isn’t it?

      Perhaps ostentatious d!&ks should somehow be forced to be original …?

      I understand you’re feelings though. He’s been confirming your biases for decades …

      • Corky

         /  February 25, 2018

        ”While others shall rejoice!”

        But of course, Pati. You wouldn’t be a fanatical Lefty if you wished him well on his retirement. Acknowledged that his wine is, in its category, listed as the finest in NZ. Acknowledged the fine craftsmanship that went into his home. Such subtleties don’t escape you, they pierce your hate-filled soul.. I note architecture is not your speciality.
        There is nothing ostentatious about this home. Dotcom’s home is what you call ostentatious ,Along with some on Waiheke Island

        Now what was that about ” biases? ”

    • Blazer

       /  February 25, 2018

      not a bad…hut.Back home to..aussie is it?

  2. Blazer

     /  February 25, 2018

    open wide…all you..can..eat.

  3. Gezza

     /  February 25, 2018

    University Engineering Lecturerer Says Arts Are Easy
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12000516

    • Gezza

       /  February 25, 2018

      🙄 * Lecturer (I might need a bit of a lie down, maybe)

      • PartisanZ

         /  February 25, 2018

        “a telling sign of “an ideological war on critical thinking coupled with the anti-intellectualism that infects this country”.

        Ilam School of Fine Arts alumni –
        Rita Angus
        Russell Clark
        Shane Cotton
        Dick Frizzell
        Pat Hanly
        Rhona Haszard
        Louise Henderson
        Glenn Jowitt
        Euan Macleod
        Daisy Osborn (1888–1957)
        Vincent Ward
        Frances Rutherford
        Tony Fomison
        Philip Clairmont …. and many more …

        And that’s just Fine Artists … at least one of whom became a filmmaker …

    • chrism56

       /  February 25, 2018

      Yes – what the lecturer says is correct.
      There has been a real shortage of engineers for forty years or more. A major part of that is because not enough high school students get very good marks in calculus and physics. That is it is not taught very well at schools because they can’t get enough teachers with that as their major. The reason for that is they can’t pay those teachers more because all those teachers with arts degree would complain and the union opposes it.
      The other way of looking at it is the pay of graduates once they leave university. That is how society values them. Here is one such survey http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8205505/Degrees-ranked-by-earning-potential
      And here is the data for the UK to show NZ is not an outlier
      https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/news/highest-and-lowest-graduate-earners-degree-subject-uk
      Why do you (PZ) think engineers are just behind doctors yet arts graduates at the bottom of the list? You might well have a list of famous graduates. What about the thousands that aren’t on the list – the “do you want fries with that” group?

      • Gezza

         /  February 25, 2018

        “Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment Minister Steven Joyce said the new report and website offered important, real information about New Zealand’s industries. “The data highlights the large variation in earning potential for different types of graduates, with those studying in in-demand areas earning the most.

        “What I think it will do is you will see a move away from fine arts and performing arts in to a stronger demand for more career-oriented areas.”

        He said it would be good for the economy, and said the higher level of study students completed, the better it was for their prospects and earnings.”
        … … …
        I wonder if he was right?

      • PartisanZ

         /  February 26, 2018

        @chrism56 – “The reason … they can’t pay those teachers more [is] because all those teachers with arts degree would complain and the union opposes it.”

        What sort of bullshit is this?

        That’s actually kinda like saying “We can treat this-or-that religious minority worse because the other religionists won’t complain and the totalitarian dictatorship approves of it …

        Why should a teacher agree to earn less than another teacher with equivalent level of qualification? They’re both teachers! Would you do that? Does anyone in the private sector do that?

        You want to have a ‘subject hierarchy’ in education? How do you decide who’s on top? The amount they can earn OUTSIDE of education!? FFS!

        There’s at least one other painfully obvious reason … The engineering industry out there in the real world doing engineering pays a whole lot better than teaching pays …

        So maybe … just maybe … that’s what people study engineering so they can do, rather than teach it? Lo and behold, there you have it in the Stuff comparisons, Engineering second only to Health, with a bunch of engineering-related industries next in line, IT and architecture.

        These studies, and the implication of this topic generally is that many people still “follow their dreams”. I find that really heartening and encouraging.

        Social evolution is a coefficient of people’s education reaching the level of critical thinking without loss of compassion.

        @Steven Joyce – “I think … you will see a move away from fine arts and performing arts in to a stronger demand for more career-oriented areas.”

        When’s this? … 2013. Hell, I’m surprised we haven’t seen that already … and I’d be fucken interested to know why not?

        Joyce also said this “would be good for the economy”, although you can hardly argue that’s the case if swathes more graduates with higher qualifications become teachers, can you?

        “Mr Joyce said while the saying “follow your dreams” was still relevant to some extent, there was a new realism about students making good choices, taking into account future earnings, and worldwide, industry competitiveness.”

        Fuck! That’s encoded ‘persuasion language’ if ever I heard it … straight Rightie indoctrination, no mixer, only ICE …

        Allow me to translate: “Still relevant to some extent” = almost irrelevant. “New realism” = contemporary wisdom. “Good choices” = not doing arts and/or “following your dreams” = forget self-actualization, “future earnings” = survival chances especially ability to secure shelter, and “worldwide industry competitiveness” = ‘globalize’ your thinking … you’ll probably have to go elsewhere to “succeed” …

        Gezza – very good question, “I wonder if he was right?” – stats would be fascinating …

        • Gezza

           /  February 26, 2018

          👍🏼
          Fully locked & loaded there.

        • chrism56

           /  February 26, 2018

          No Parti that is just a fact free rant. Try again

          • PartisanZ

             /  February 26, 2018

            You have another go chrism56. You’re the one whose been discredited …

            chrism56 – “The other way of looking at it is the pay of graduates once they leave university. That is how society values them.”

            Well, actually … No! ‘ONE’ other way of looking at it is the pay of graduates, which is ONLY how much they are ‘valued’ economically … the selling-price of their labour (if you will) … not “how society values them” …

            Society “values” nurses and school teachers very highly but doesn’t pay them as well as doctors and university lecturers …

            That purely economic value, which is only partially relevant, will be a coefficient of dollar values paid to graduates in private industry, SOEs and in the public service … In other words it includes teachers salaries …

            Measuring purely financial ‘value’ is like this: “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” – J. Krishnamurti

            It is no measure of value to be well remunerated in a profoundly sick economy.

            • chrism56

               /  February 26, 2018

              Universities have been qualification mills for fifty years. They are not hotbeds of intellectual thought – that bus left long ago. Even a lot of the “research” is just garbage they want published to get or keep tenure. The original professional careers (medicine, engineering, law, accountancy) needed the degree as an entry point. This has been expanded to cover more fields. It has got more so since a lot of jobs that used to be apprenticeships or diploma courses (like nursing and primary school teaching) were uprated to degree qualifications. The expansion of numbers going to university means the many of the qualifications come with little or no prospect of a job in that line. There is also a very high failure rate from people who should never have started dropping out. Look at the statistics.
              Young people feel forced to go to university because of expectations and poor career advice from schools. It is well known among them that Arts degrees are easy if you mouth the correct left wing platitudes. No original thought needed. At the end of their three years, they have a lot of debt and little prospect of paying it off, though a lot become teachers. That is why the quality of teaching has gone down. There are a glut of teachers with Arts degrees. There are some that extremely good, motivated and conscientious but many just are doing it because there was nothing else. They have degrees in PE or Art History, but very few have science or maths degrees. Yet those unqualified teachers take the science and maths classes. The text books have been dumbed down, being just a bit of text then a series of questions with blank spaces for kids to fill in the answers, so there is no teaching involved – the teacher is just a roll taker and marker. That means the kids are poorly taught, so see maths or physics as really hard. And that is why they can’t do engineering – even medicine is easier to get into.
              Look at any photo of an engineering class. It is full of Asians, many of them NZ born. Why do you think that is? Because they worked hard at the hard subjects – and much of it has to be done at home or with tutors. Kids in Y13 talk about the Asian 5 subjects – the ones they need to get into engineering school.
              And that is why they are well paid and you rant on blogs.

            • PartisanZ

               /  February 26, 2018

              Nice rant! Blistering, savage, passionate and just plain nasty. The ravings of a loyal Rightie …

              “Because they worked hard at the hard subjects”. Or, possibly, because they were good at some subjects which weren’t hard for them?

              Others are good at other subjects like art and drama which come easy to them …

              The transumption that long ago everything was much, much better than it is now is actually a very old confirmation bias. It must serve some purpose but I can’t think what?

              Sounds like a conspiracy theory with entropy being society’s end-goal? We’ll succeed when we cease to function?

              So maybe the whole idea is to promote devolution as being inevitable? Or perhaps just justify totally abysmal, otherwise intolerable behaviour?

              I suppose it’s the old “Long March” or “One World Order” proposition?

              What could the ultimate purpose of such “dumbing down” be?

              And why is it happening [or continuing] during the very decades when risk-taking, entrepreneurship, innovation, productivity and efficiency have thrived so well … at the expense of human compassion … ?

              When quantum “connectedness” has not improved human ‘connection’ something must be awry …?

            • chrism56

               /  February 27, 2018

              So you can use a thesaurus Parti but find it impossible to show logical or even rational thought. And embittered that that the world doesn’t recognise your talents. That must be why you are a left wing voter.

    • Gezza

       /  February 25, 2018

      It’s a new complainant talking about a historical incident, isn’t it? Rather than their being “at it again”?

      Not a good look at all, though, for this high profile firm. Good to see its sleazy side exposed. Won’t be the only law firm where young females are fed booze & then hit on.

      • Blazer

         /  February 25, 2018

        interesting the language they use ,very legal,to assuage any suggestion that they condone it or didn’t deal..with it.Another casting..couch…who’s next…?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  February 25, 2018

      I have a hard time deciding that consensual sex is a condemnation of only one party to it.

      Maybe you should look at the would-be sugar baby/sugar daddy ratios. About 7:1 I understand.

  4. David

     /  February 25, 2018

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/101751918/commission-could-report-directly-to-parliament-on-rnz-public-media-funding

    1.8 million buck inquiry to see if RNZ has enough funding when it’s a given that Labour will increase the funding for RNZ and for its spinoff the Spinoff which caters to a small liberal elite and staffed by RNZs liberal elite.
    Does Jacinda,s best mate Jesse Mulligan earn enough money to say nice things about her because the dinner parties lately have been a bit average.

    • Blazer

       /  February 25, 2018

      26 million buckeroos for a flag referendum that was always doomed to fail…$11mil plus to an Arab shiek for????30mil for Rio Tinto…to???…and don’t mention..Thiel.

      • David

         /  February 25, 2018

        Exactly Blazer, glad you agree that this labour government is tits and has no clue and is no better than the previous crowd. National lite and the cautious poll driven inaction continues. Not sure what you and Guyton get all excited about. 1.8 million could have dragged 500 children out of poverty and saved from begging on the streets and living in a tent.

  5. David

     /  February 25, 2018

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/101655182/large-loss-to-international-student-economy-looms-under-govt-immigration-plans

    Go Labour go, this is a Joyce backed rort to undercut the wages and prop up businesses. Now lets see them force the unemployed in Northland and Gisborne up sticks to where the jobs are, if you can travel fro Mumbai for work then the NI should be a doddle.

    • Gezza

       /  February 25, 2018

      Might be no need if Jonesy can crank up some employment in those regions.

    • Griff

       /  February 25, 2018

      if you can travel fro Mumbai for work then the NI should be a doddle.

      Except they are not traveling for work .
      They are traveling for a NZ passport.
      When they stop the immigration rort wages will rise .
      so yip more will think I am better off working than bludging if you pay me better.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  February 25, 2018

        When wages rise so will costs. Exports will fall as will growth, jobs and investment.

        • Griff

           /  February 25, 2018

          Alan
          We have a huge infrastructure deficit.
          Because national used immigration to prop up GDP.
          That is a ponzie scam using the new investment to pay out existing investors.
          Basically to pay out baby boomers super entitlements.
          Meantime shareholders in NZ inc had their holding diluted.
          National’s immigration scam rooted us far more than most realize.
          Existing Kiwi citizens share of NZ inc earnings mostly from primary industry was diluted by importing many hundreds of thousands of low wage workers that actually lowered our productivity and education standards.

  6. I like this open forum, great idea!
    I would like to share this short video ~ not sure if I had to embedd it or post the link??

    If Elephants can be tidy ~ ~

    A tidy elephant https://t.co/Lcm38kf3Pd— AucklandHouseInspector (@MaxeJanssen) February 25, 2018

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

  7. Pickled Possum

     /  February 27, 2018

    Cleaned up! … then left the room.
    Wow he could teach his fellow land dwellers a thing or too.