Tūranganui a Kiwa/Poverty Bay

Tūranganui a Kiwa is a bit of a mouthful, but Poverty Bay is not a very nice name.

Poverty Bay (Māori: Turanganui-a-kiwa) is the largest of several small bays on the east coast of New Zealand’s North Islandto the north of Hawke Bay. It stretches for 10 kilometres (6 mi) from Young Nick’s Head in the southwest to Tuaheni Point in the northeast. The city of Gisborne is located on the northern shore of the bay. The name is often used by extension to refer to the entire area surrounding the city of Gisborne. Poverty Bay is the home of the iwi Te Aitanga-a-Māhaki, Rongowhakaataand Ngai Tamanuhiri.

The first European known to have set foot in New Zealand, Captain James Cook, did so here on 7 October 1769 (at which time it was known as Teoneroa). This first meeting led to the deaths of 6 local Maori during skirmishes with the crew. Although he was able to obtain some herbs to ward off scurvy, Cook was unable to gain many of the provisions he and his crew needed at the bay, and for this reason gave it the name Poverty Bay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_Bay

43 Comments

  1. Kitty Catkin

     /  March 3, 2018

    I don’t suppose that people think that Poverty Bay is where papupers live. It’s a shame when a historic name is changed.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  March 3, 2018

      paupers.

      • robertguyton

         /  March 3, 2018

        It’s a shame when a historic name is ca=hanged?
        OMG.
        Foveaux Strait.
        Te Ara a Kiwa.
        Give.
        Us
        A
        Break
        Kitty!!!
        Foveaux ?
        Come on! Justify!!!

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  March 3, 2018

          It has been called Foveaux Strait by the vast majority of people who have ever lived near it or known it. Is that not justification?

          • robertguyton

             /  March 4, 2018

            Well, since Europeans arrived, in any case, before that, Alan, who cares, aye!!
            Foveaux! Do you know what part Mr Foveaux played in New Zealand’s history? Wanna have a guess?

            • High Flying Duck

               /  March 4, 2018

              I bet it’s not even straight, is it Robert? And if it is, does that mean it’s oppressing minorities with its binary description of itself?

              On the topic at hand, renaming Poverty Bay to pretty much anything else is long overdue. No probs with the original name being put back in place.

              Young Nicks Head should probably follow…

    • phantom snowflake

       /  March 3, 2018

      Yes, it was a shame when Rahui Pokeka was renamed “Huntly”.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  March 3, 2018

        Did you protest then?

        • phantom snowflake

           /  March 3, 2018

          Haha great; I’ve lived there but not at that time. I suppose it would be impolite of me to mention Kororareka.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  March 3, 2018

            I figured the people there then thought it was a good idea and you must have been outvoted, phantom.

            We use Kororareka and Russell interchangeably here but most outsiders just know Russell and it’s easier for them to say. Names are not an issue in Russell. We have one street named after the Maori Chief, Pomare, and another named after a British ship, HMS Hazard. I live in Oneroa Road and it connects to Gould Street named for one of Governor Grey’s staff who became a highly regarded teacher here. Those are just the four nearest streets to me.

            It’s all good history and respectful of all sides.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 3, 2018

              Yes, outvoted in the ‘real world’ and downticked in the virtual one. Thanks; appreciate the geography/history snapshot.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  March 3, 2018

              It’s a fascinating and very human history here. A lot of larger than life characters as you might expect amongst people prepared to sail to the other side of the world in small ships meeting up with leaders of the local residents and survivors of tribal warfare.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  March 4, 2018

        It was never called that in the first place.

        • phantom snowflake

           /  March 4, 2018

          WRONG.

          The original name for the area is Rahui Pokeka, although the Post Master who served in the town from March 1870 to August 1877 changed the town’s name.
          https://web.archive.org/web/20070731085104/http://www.huntly.co.nz/history.htm

          Originally a Māori settlement called Rāhui Pōkeka”
          https://www.huntly.info/history

          • Gezza

             /  March 4, 2018

            One of the things to be considered sometimes, imo, is that if Maori had a settlement, or a pa, & it had a name, fine, use it. But if pakeha settlers then built a town, especially a sizeable one, that’s either built alongside an original Maori settlement, or in slightly different location from one, then it’s also fine if they want to call their town something else.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 4, 2018

              Can’t find any evidence that what you are describing happened in the case of Rahui Pokeka/Huntly, but the internet doesn’t know everything. When I lived there local Maori used the name Rahui Pokeka for the settled area on both sides of the Waikato River.

            • Gezza

               /  March 4, 2018

              Rahui in that sense is referring to an area I think, not a town.

            • Gezza

               /  March 4, 2018

              From the online Maori Dictionary:
              Pōkeka
              1. (noun) rhythmic chant without actions similar to manawa wera and peculiar to Te Arawa tribes.

              2. (noun) rough cape made of undressed flax leaves.
              … … …
              1.(verb) to be perplexed, distressed, upset, troubled, agitated.

              Nō te rongonga mō te mate, ka pōkeka rātau (Ng 1993:107). / When they heard the news about the death, they were distressed.

              2. (modifier) perplexed, distressed, upset, troubled, agitated.
              … … …
              Rāhui Pōkeka
              1. (location) Huntly (Waikato)
              … … …
              Would be interesting to know how the Maori name came about. There’s probably a local historical or mythological basis for it.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 4, 2018

              Here’s one story, although there are others. This one connects the name Rahui Pokeka with Lake Waahi to the west and Lake Hakanoa to the east of the Waikato River.

              To the west of the river is Lake Waahi and to the east Lake Hakanoa. When Maori settlers first came to this area, tuna (eels) were plentiful in both lakes. In order to conserve the tune supplies from both lakes, a rest period between fishing seasons was proclaimed by the local chief. He signified this by driving a pou-rahui (flax stick) into the ground. At the end of the rest period he heralded the start of a new fishing season by lowering the pou-rahui to ground level in front of the assembled people. In time, however, the groups living on the east and west banks quarreled over the size of their respective eel catches. Friction developed and there was thereat of bloodshed. The chief gathered his people together and said, “this quarrelling must cease. Behold I have driven the pou-rahui into the ground. When I cease speaking I shall lower it. From this day when our pou-rahui is lowered we will dance a haka of joy to show that we are all free from our bond not to fish for tuna. To commemorate this event the eastern lake shall be named Hakanoa. From today all eels taken from both lakes shall be divided evenly between our two groups and to record this the western lake shall be called Waahi.”Because of these events the Maori name given to the Huntly area was Raahui Pokeka.
              http://www.naumaiplace.com/site/waahi-paa/home/page/27/marae-history/

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 4, 2018

              Will wander off topic for a moment, G. My neighbourhood in Huntly (West) was basically a Black Power enclave. At the same time as I was living there I would occasionally stay with relatives in Flaxmere which was pretty much Mob Central, and it was interesting to compare the two. (I had no gang affiliations.) In Huntly West I could wander wherever and whenever I wanted, and rarely felt unsafe. Strangers were for the most part friendly. In Flaxmere I encountered a lot of overt hostility. Glancing at someone for too long at, say, a local park could result in a menacing look or worse. Not sure what my point is…

            • Gezza

               /  March 4, 2018

              Your point seems to be that Huntly Black Power are a bit friendlier to Huntly locals than the Flaxmere Mongies are to strangers?

              How friendly were Huntly Black Power to strangers from Flaxmere?

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 4, 2018

              I wasn’t a ‘local’; I just appeared one day. Strangers from Flaxmere = break out the stash of sawnoffs etc lol.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  March 4, 2018

            The area, not the town. It was named after Huntly in Scotland.

  2. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    Words are low resolution images.
    This shows the problem with democracy: it attracts blowfish (people with a mission).

    Following confirmation of the Ngati Porou deal, arranged under the controversial Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004, Meng Foon was quoted as saying that “he did not believe many people would be disadvantaged by reduced access to the beach, as 90 per cent of the East Coast population was Maori anyway.”

    • sorethumb

       /  March 4, 2018

      Blowflies – people whose misrepresent themselves (like the Greens)

  3. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    We know what the councilors wanted; what did the public want?

  4. Patzcuaro

     /  March 4, 2018

    Às Maori is an official language I can’t see the downside in starting to use the Maori place names along side the English place names.

    • sorethumb

       /  March 4, 2018

      The argument that Maori is an official language only means it can be used on official occasions. It doesn’t mean must learn it or replace European names with it.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  March 4, 2018

        I’m not suggesting you have to learn Maori or that English names are replaced. If you want to learn Maori that is great. A lot of places have no English name such as Whangarei and Tauranga.

        I don’t regard promoting Maori names as being PC, more just showing a little sensitivity to the Maori side of our heritage which shouldn’t be a problem for a society that is confident in itself.

      • robertguyton

         /  March 4, 2018

        You don’t have to learn English either – the choice is yours. Some people seem barely to have bothered.

        • sorethumb

           /  March 4, 2018

          You do have to learn English in NZ. How else will you communicate?

          • robertguyton

             /  March 4, 2018

            Choice, sorethumb. No one’s forcing you to learn English.
            In any case, someone from elsewhere in the non-English speaking world who comes here and settles into a significant community of others who have arrived from afar, can choose not to learn English. Choice, sorethumb, personal choice
            You don’t have to learn English.

  5. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    See how they twisted settlers museum to include Maori settlers. Settlers meant primarily those arriving in 1848. Can’t have that.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/108090/otago-settlers-museum-to-get-maori-name
    The councilors voted against the will of the public.

  6. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    Beware your council elections- they attract blow flies : people wanting to be in the know for commercial development or radical leftists.

    • robertguyton

       /  March 4, 2018

      Beware your council elections
      BEWARE YOUR COUNCIL ELECTIONS!!!
      DOOMED! DOOMED, I SAY!
      DOOMED !!!!!!!

  7. Maggy Wassilieff

     /  March 4, 2018

    I live on the hill above Cook’s landing place (and the reputed landing place of the waka Horouta).
    I’ll get used to saying Turanganui a kiwa, no doubt.. tho’ the more commonly used Maori word around here to refer to the Gisborne district is Tairāwhiti.

    • sorethumb

       /  March 4, 2018

      When you think about a catchy name though look at winery names: Cloudy Bay etc. Poverty Bay carries images of Captain Cooks heroic voyage not poverty as detracters claim.

  8. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    This is reminiscent of falling statues?

  9. sorethumb

     /  March 4, 2018

    You can claim there is no conspiracy but the practice of multiculturalism requires a new (super ordinate) identity and as the identity was clearly based on Maori and settlers mainly from the UK it is necessary to trim that identity down to size (down play it – murder it etc).
    On Outspoken Auckland Issues Paul Spoonley and Julie Zhu think Maori is the only part of NZ that is unique and should be preserved.
    Not many hero’s here.