Open Forum – Monday

5 March 2018

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34 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  March 5, 2018

    NCEA is a dog. I previously said they basically give levels one and two away for free. I guess that’s been confirmed with level two pass rates climbing to 80%, while our global numeracy and literacy levels declined. Someone is bullshitting.

    If you want your kids to have qualifications recognised in many parts of the world, Cambridge or other similar such exams are the way to go.

    • lurcher1948

       /  March 5, 2018

      Corky Dogs are not useless,like the NCEA,RED is far better than that comment…just saying

      • Corky

         /  March 5, 2018

        I take it you aren’t a Cambridge old boy..

        • Different city, same house prices. Two families in Sydney.
          Go to second family to see two professionals unable to buy inner city, but choose to rent rather. Never going to change in short term here.

          https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tale-of-two-sydneys-20180221-p4z14t.html

          • Blazer

             /  March 5, 2018

            you hope…Sydney population=more than the whole of NZ…land mass of NZ =abundant.Tax landbankers.

            • What?

            • Blazer

               /  March 5, 2018

              @Trav…what?…no comparison..comprenez?

            • The comparison is valid.

              If you choose inner-city life in a metropolitan international city, highly sought after – whether its Sydney, Melbourne, London, Toronto or Vancouver it is all the same. Liveable cities with excellent state and private schools, good enough universities and tertiary, easy access to outdoor amenities, a thriving cultural heartbeat, fabulous restaurants you’re on a hiding to nothing.

              You socialists with your no borders approach, your eventual one world government the UN must be happy. There is no turning back now. Whether Ardern lets Manus people in and refugees increase or Nationa choose the well-educated and or monied property is never going anywhere but up. European large cities have been like this forever.

              Want the inner city vibe, rent will be the only option. Choose to commute it’s the Blue Mountains or Warkworth/Pukekohe.

            • robertguyton

               /  March 5, 2018

              “You socialists”
              You neo-libs.

        • lurcher1948

           /  March 5, 2018

          Whatever…

          • Lurcher and Blazer where do you live if I can ask? General idea is ok

            • Blazer

               /  March 5, 2018

              I live in Auckland.A city with way less people than Sydney,plenty of land,over 35,000 empty houses,and a playground for foreign speculators.Land tax…use it or lose it …and banning non residents from owning property is a big part of the..remedy.All this ‘investment’ in western cities is caused by Q.E ,the GFC inflicted on people by the parasites like this turkey…
              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12006548

            • Gezza

               /  March 5, 2018

              We don’t need luxury homes only foreign billionaire visitors can afford. We need affordable hovels for wait staff & fast food joints. He can always fuck off permanently if he likes. Fuck his golf course for the plebs.

  2. duperez

     /  March 5, 2018

    That they’re giving Levels 1 and 2 away is shown by Level 2 pass rates climbing to 80%?

    Hekia Parata’s target was to have 85% of 18 year olds achieve NCEA Level 2 or the equivalent so the 80% is small beer. The extra 5% needed is from the group that is much harder to get to the line.

    So who is bullshitting? Those who told Parata the system wasn’t working? Those who steadfastly worked to get their pupils onto the required list in black ink whether the subjects they did were the best for their learning?

    The game is about the graphs and percentages a Minister can brag about. A school wants 100% pass rates to flaunt in the league tables. And people want and love those easy to understand tables. 100% pass rates in Under Water Marbles, Nose Picking and Ironing Collars on Shirts are exponentially better than 75% in Physics, Statistics or Design and Visual Communication

    (If we want our own kids to have qualifications recognised in many parts of the world, do we send them back to school to do Cambridge exams? Or should we accept that the NCEA backgrounds which headed them (and their friends) to degrees up to doctorate level in universities the length of the country were good enough?)

    • Corky

       /  March 5, 2018

      .”.Hekia Parata’s target was to have 85% of 18 year olds achieve NCEA Level 2 or the equivalent so the 80% is small beer. The extra 5% needed is from the group that is much harder to get to the line.”

      NCEA level 2 at 80% should not see our global ratings decline. The extra 5% has no bearing on this point given our past international ratings statistically compared to previous NCEA pass rates.

      ”So who is bullshitting? Those who told Parata the system wasn’t working? Those who steadfastly worked to get their pupils onto the required list in black ink whether the subjects they did were the best for their learning?”

      Both are culpable. However, I sense you are making this political. Both National and Labour stand condemned for their failure to tackle education unions. Marxism is the problem.

      ”The game is about the graphs and percentages a Minister can brag about. A school wants 100% pass rates to flaunt in the league tables. And people want and love those easy to understand tables. 100% pass rates in Under Water Marbles, Nose Picking and Ironing Collars on Shirts are exponentially better than 75% in Physics, Statistics or Design and Visual Communication.”

      Some truth there. However, a schools mana and focus is also important. This about Auckland Grammar:

      NCEA

      ”The last headmaster, John Morris, is a vocal critic of NCEA. In response to what is perceived by the school to be a poorly designed system being forced on them, the school introduced Cambridge International Examinations in 2002, offering the IGCSE, AS Level and A2 examinations to its more talented students. Other students sit NCEA exams. Students placed in an IGCSE/AS/A2 class are allowed to switch to NCEA, but this is usually discouraged by the school. However, in the ensuing years the majority of students were encouraged to take part in CIE qualifications. The introduction of New Zealand Scholarship has been viewed sceptically by the school, and it encourages only the top students to attempt it. Despite this, the school had the highest number of scholarships of any school in New Zealand in 2006. The 2008 Education Review Office (ERO) report commented the School ranks among the highest performing schools in New Zealand from the results in national and international examinations..From 2011, the school will only offer the CIE Form 5 programme to all students in Form 5.”

      ”(If we want our own kids to have qualifications recognised in many parts of the world, do we send them back to school to do Cambridge exams? Or should we accept that the NCEA backgrounds which headed them (and their friends) to degrees up to doctorate level in universities the length of the country were good enough?)”

      That’s for parents to decided. I can tell what employers would say… and Asians.

      • All my friends kids do Cambridge

      • duperez

         /  March 5, 2018

        I’m making it political? And you blame teacher unions and Marxism?

        Parata set a target of 85%. The holy grail to brag about in Parliament when all the while real learning went backwards. All schooling was headed to that figure at that stage of a kid’s life. All schooling is practice for NCEA level 2.

        Schooling, teaching, learning and providing citizens to cope in the world they’re going into have been reduced to league tables and graphs for a baying simple public. Many complex factors are reduced to the most simple terms and what is done is not what professionals and experts think should be done but what those on the sideline demand to maintain their control and oversight. Some of the public is now grizzling when the picture isn’t good.

        Hipkins announces he’s going to review things and he’s pilloried. A couple of weeks later the New Zealand Initiative puts out a report saying things need looking at and everyone thinks it’s a good idea. Is that political?

        • Corky

           /  March 5, 2018

          While aligned with Labour, I consider teacher unions as separate entity(s) to governments, even though governments have input through the Education Ministry.

          We have tried the holistic approach to teaching. It doesn’t work. Parata was trying to rectify that with National Standards. That was ill conceived because she didn’t deal to the unions first; didn’t take the paperwork load off teachers and principals. So of course that allowed critics to have a field day. The goal was good….teach the fucking three R’S to an acceptable standard before talking about diversity. The execution was pathetic.

          The Cambridge Exams have their critics, but I believe they produce a better student who is far more flexible in the work place and world, even if they can’t pick apples as well as a NCEA student.

          • duperez

             /  March 5, 2018

            Please point me to the research of the holistic approach to teaching not working.

            One of our kids was in a high school where they tried different approaches, innovative approaches in teaching high schoolers in their first two years. Collaboration and all sorts of weird things like that even. Flexible approaches that we hear people say state schools can’t do.
            Naturally the dyed in the wool science teachers at the top end said the kids would be disadvantaged and limited in later years by the holistic approach.
            Naturally the conservative people want their kids taught in the good old ways like the ‘good old days’ in systems they can understand.

            I don’t know what they say now that the cohort is making it’s way in the world being nurses, mechanics, doctors, computer programmes, accountants, scientists, lab technicians, running their own small businesses whatever.

            In enlightened times, in an aspect of life which is about enlightenment, fear and ignorance are the key players and drivers.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  March 5, 2018
    • Mefrostate

       /  March 5, 2018

      Business owners routinely overestimate the proportion of their customers who arrived by private vehicle, and Mike Hosking is an uninformed ideologue who attacks bike lanes without a shred of evidence to support his position.

      And you lap both of these articles up uncritically because they appeal to your worldview.

      • phantom snowflake

         /  March 5, 2018

        I’m generally supportive of cycleways, but I find it believable that Auckland Transport may have done a crap job of consultation. I consider that the main problem is the flawed Supercity model introduced by Natonal/ACT. (which I have previously referred to as a “Rodney Hide vanity project.”) Numerous CCOs (so-called “Council Controlled Organizations”) were formed which seem to operate independently with very little if any accountability. My own personal (paranoid) gripe with Auckland Transport is that they have chosen to spend vast sums of Ratepayers’ money on a network of CCTV cameras for which they have gifted free access to the “Surveillance State.”

        • Mefrostate

           /  March 5, 2018

          But my link above was quite literally a consultation document with K-road businesses?

          • phantom snowflake

             /  March 5, 2018

            I wasn’t suggesting that there was no consultation, but that the minimally accountable CCO model would inevitably lead to a power imbalance between CCOs and the community. I’m questioning whether the ‘consultation’ has any real influence on decisions that are made.

            • Mefrostate

               /  March 5, 2018

              That’s quite possibly a valid critique, but I’m not convinced that AT’s decision-making is biased towards cycleways – considering their draft budget randomly slashed bicycle funding by 90%. See here.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  March 5, 2018

              I read that Spinoff article at the time; I was then and am still mystified as to what exactly was the game that AT were playing.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  March 5, 2018

        B.s. Mefro. Business owners know when roadworks bankrupt them.

        • Mefrostate

           /  March 5, 2018

          Then they should proceed through section 60 of the Public Works Act.

          Just to check: do you support government provision of carparking on public land?

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  March 5, 2018

            You did read the link? AT refused compensation under the PW Act.

            So long as Government taxes, rates and zones businesses adjacent to its roads I support said roads providing reasonable access and parking for those businesses which should not be removed without compensation.

            • Mefrostate

               /  March 5, 2018

              “You did read the link? AT refused compensation under the PW Act.”

              I note Orsman (whose bread-and-butter is NIMBY outrage) hasn’t provided detail on AT’s reasons for denying compensation. So much for the lefty media, I guess.

              If the business owners dispute AT’s explanation, legal routes are available. Although I’d advise caution, since the study I linked above showed that their understanding of their own customers is a bit flawed.

              “So long as Government taxes, rates and zones businesses adjacent to its roads I support said roads providing reasonable access and parking for those businesses which should not be removed without compensation.”

              See, I’d prefer lower rates and no public provision of parking. I don’t see any market failure that would justify ratepayers subsidising car use. If those businesses truly valued parking they could provide it themselves.

              It seems on this issue I’m the libertarian and you’re the one justifying state transfer of resources to private interests.

      • High Flying Duck

         /  March 5, 2018

        Cycleways are fantastic in theory Mefro. The way they are being implemented in Auckland suggests zealotry and and incompetence on a very large scale though.
        Most of the newer cycleways installed in Auckland appear to have been expensive, intrusive and dangerous to use.
        The issues raised in the article was one of sham-consultation. No-one argued they couldn’t make submissions. The just point out that despite overwhelming submissions little to nothing changed.
        Not sure what the answer is, but when organisations like the K-Road Business Association – who are very progressive – withdraw support, the canary in the coalmine of bullying through cycleways is most certainly dead.

        Perhaps they had seen the light and cut funding to the draft budget in light of the failures to date. However it seems ideology will win out. The draft has been amended and the policy will continue.

        • Mefrostate

           /  March 5, 2018

          There’s plenty of excellent evidence to support cycle infrastructure. I’m surprised you view it as pure ideology. National, to their credit, acknowledged this and invested in cycleways. Are you also accusing National of zealotry on this issue?

          Can you tell me more about the “expensive, intrusive and dangerous” cycleways? I’ve ridden for years and it’s much more dangerous to have me trying to dodge busses and taxis.

  4. lurcher1948

     /  March 5, 2018

    Why did the national party let this man in,this was under sir key i think by his entry date.
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/03/how_was_he_still_in_nz.html

  5. robertguyton

     /  March 5, 2018

    “Prime Minister Ardern is playing the Australian media like a black grand piano.

    I suspect she is building up momentum in order to use their media to ask something big of Turnbull.

    This is one skilful pollie we have here.”
    Yeah, Man!