Open Forum – Saturday

24 March 2018

Forum

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36 Comments

  1. sorethumb

     /  March 24, 2018

    First of all, proportional representation confers, even if only indirectly, a constitutional status on political parties which they would otherwise not attain. For I can no longer choose a person whom I trust to represent me: I can choose only a party. And the people who may represent the party are chosen only by the party. And while people and their opinions always deserve the greatest respect, the opinions adopted by parties (which are typically instruments of personal advancement and of power, with all the chances for intrigue which this implies) are not to be identified with ordinary human opinions: they are ideologies.
    https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/01/karl-popper-democracy

  2. Corky

     /  March 24, 2018

    Which two super powers are having difficulties with the West? Russia and China. It wont be long before these two decide joining forces and subduing the West, both economically and militarily, would be to their mutual benefit. Both countries are well advanced with their plans to be major military powers in our region should the need arise thanks to our island bros.

    Helen… this ain’t a benign part of the globe. It just appears that way.

    • sorethumb

       /  March 24, 2018

      Peter Htchen’s says Russia isn’t a state as we think of it; it is a collection of oligarchs etc which could explain the poisoning. He said it could be a message to UK “WTF are you meddling in Russia? We do not share a border etc etc. He refers to John LeCarrie where in the foreign office they pine for a time when Britain was powerful. Also at the breakup of NATO all the talk was “what are we going to do now?” (like foresters on the Westcoast).

      • Corky

         /  March 24, 2018

        I think we are talking about two different things, Thumbs. You are commenting on peripherals. I am speaking of an alliance brought on by continued pressure from the US, Britain and the European Union.

  3. Gezza

     /  March 24, 2018

    “Having paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring former US President Barack Obama to New Zealand, the airline would have been expecting the public relations payback to be tenfold.But the trip was a massive wasted opportunity.

    The public didn’t even get a glimpse of Obama when he arrived for his speech in downtown Auckland – people who lined up outside because they weren’t important or rich enough to get a ticket to the invitation-only event booed when giant screens were erected to block their view.

    The images of Obama teeing up at some of the world’s most exclusive and beautiful golf clubs might play well in the overseas markets that Air New Zealand targets.

    But back home the overall impression of the trip read like something out of lifestyles of the rich and famous as Obama and a coterie of rich men were choppered in and out of luxury resorts, out of the range of prying eyes.

    The contrast between the glossy publicity shots and the airline’s cutbacks in regional New Zealand – ironically, including Northland, where Obama was flown by helicopter for his golf round – was stark. Jones’ assault on the airline for corporate arrogance and abandoning the “real” New Zealand couldn’t have been timed better.

    His criticism of Air New Zealand for axing routes like Kaitaia has struck a real nerve out there in the regions that NZ First professes to champion.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/102544218/barack-obamas-nz-trip-may-have-backfired-for-airline

    • PDB

       /  March 24, 2018

      Obama’s short private visit was simply a bit of MSM mania that most New Zealanders couldn’t give a shit about. Most comments I saw about the place was anti-Jones regarding this issue & pro-Air NZ.

      • Gezza

         /  March 24, 2018

        I wonder which AirNZ board member conned the board into paying for his rich mate to come here & play golf with him.

        What comments are you referring to?

        • Traveller

           /  March 24, 2018

          Key is on the ANZ board Gezza

          • Blazer

             /  March 24, 2018

            Key is Chairman of the ANZ Bank and a board member of…Air NZ.

          • Gezza

             /  March 24, 2018

            Should be sacked.

            • Gezza

               /  March 24, 2018

              Oh, I thought you meant he was on AirNZ’s board. According to Hosking Obama charges half a million an appearance so Key must’ve conned them into laying that out so he could show off & play golf with his mate. Key needs to get the boot. He could’ve paid for his mate come here himself if his “mate” wouldn’t show up for nothing.

      • lurcher1948

         /  March 24, 2018

        Reverse you statement, i think people are sick of eyewatering fares to fly out of heartland New Zealand,Jones is playing the smart game.

    • Warren

       /  March 24, 2018

      I do not think the visit was aimed at the NZ public and hence the lack of exposure here. Maybe the advertising will be in other countries to try and persuade their citizens to visit. I would be interested to see the advertising campaigns in those countries. Probably the visit was carefully scripted as the basis for those projects

      • Gezza

         /  March 24, 2018

      • Traveller

         /  March 24, 2018

        Gezza.

        You are aware that this NZ stop is just part of a 4 stop tour Obama is doing don’t you. Though he stopped here for a day longer he’s visiting Australia, Japan and Singapore. The Singapore leg could arguably be seen as the most important aspect of the trip as he’s been involved in an OBAMA Foundation SE Asian youth forum. Key is a personal friend and golfing aficionado and it’s not hard to imagine he’d take the opportunity to take his “rest” days here.

        I’d also argue that corporates would have competed and clambered to get on board with brand association in all countries. I think even him calling WESTPAC WestBank was advertising. JMHO

        • Gezza

           /  March 24, 2018

          I think Obama is a huge disappoinment who few people can afford to listen to, and even fewer people now want to – & those that do only want to becos they think they can personally make money from him somehow.

    • Traveller

       /  March 24, 2018

      Obama in Sydney.

      “What Obama said in Sydney – wish I had accepted the invite and gone. (It was billed as a tech focused speech)

      From the SMH
      By Deborah Snow

      Former US president Barack Obama has warned against complacency in taking the benefits of liberal democracies for granted, saying rights like freedom of speech, freedom of association, protection of minorities and the rule of law have to be fought for and defended, sources say.

      In a speech that drew a standing ovation from guests at a private dinner at the Art Gallery of New South Wales on Friday night, Mr Obama said he was by nature a congenital optimist, not an alarmist. But the world was at a “fork in the road”, a time when the international order established after World War 2, and the core values rooted in the enlightenment – pluralism, science and reason – were being tested.

      He said social and political structures had not yet worked out how to deal with rapidly changing communications technology, a world in which people no longer watched the same TV channels or read the same newspapers. The rapid pace of change was having a flow-on effect across the globe, and was likely to get faster still. Discourse was becoming increasingly fragmented, with people becoming hermetically sealed off from each other inside very different information universes. “If I watched Fox News, I wouldn’t vote for me” he joked.

      Sources at the exclusive, invitation-only dinner, said he spoke of seeing a hunger for things and information that could bring people together. And he highlighted the need for “many voices around the table” to solve the problems facing the globe. Rarely did he see a problem as president that couldn’t be solved for technical reasons, he said. It was “barriers between people” that stopped things being fixed.
      If I watched Fox News, I wouldn’t vote for me.

      He also told the high-powered dinner guests that he was going to spend the next 20 years working on how to cultivate leadership skills among the young, helping them develop the platforms that would inspire them. He urged the young not to abandon institutions, but to reshape and revitalise them.
      Asked about the role of business, he warned of the dangers of short-termism and said global businesses had become detached from place, sources said. Their challenge was how to take note of people on the ground.
      Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore , who was among the guests, told Fairfax Media that Mr Obama’s speech was “inspiring. He is very gifted.” She described how he gave insights into the decision-making processes he’d exercised as president, including the decision he had to make to green-light the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden. Mr Obama spoke of the need to have “confidence in process”, Ms Moore said. “If you are doing something difficult you have to have it pressure tested, looked at under multiple scenarios, and from every angle. Then you own the decision.”

      Ms Moore said when he was asked about spurring innovation, he answered that “you over-invest in basic research, you should not be dealing with 20th century issues like tariffs. We are going to have to re-conceive what work even looks like.”

      Mr Obama joked about the numbers of Americans who were buying up land in New Zealand to escape the ‘apocalypse’. They would be better off, he said, paying more taxes, investing in health care, education and measures to combat climate change and making the US a better place for all its citizens.

      The 44th US president made his remarks in front of around 350 guests in dialogue with youth leader Holly Ransom, who asked him to address the themes of innovation, diversity and leadership.

      Mr Obama also met Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull earlier on Friday on a week-long whirlwind tour that also included engagements in Singapore and New Zealand.
      Attendees at the privately organised dinner were primarily drawn from the world of business and finance, but also included politicians , among them Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen and prominent Liberal MP Trent Zimmerman.”

      Fairfax Media has not seen an official transcript of Mr 0bama’s remarks.

  4. sorethumb

     /  March 24, 2018

    Immigration doesn’t feature but things like housing are a direct consequence (people are responding to what is in their face).

  5. Traveller

     /  March 24, 2018

    On the clumsy diversion by a contemptuous Shane Jones and his Russian loving ubermeister Winston Peters.

    “Air New Zealand is a company, governed by the Companies Act 1993. Despite the Crown’s bare majority shareholding, Air New Zealand is not a SOE or even a MOM. As such, the board of Air New Zealand – its directors – have legal duties under the Companies Act. Primary amongst these are that “when exercising powers or performing duties, [they] must act in good faith and in what the director believes to be the best interests of the company.”

    Note that their duty is to the best interests of the company. Not to the nation. Not to the provinces. Not even to the shareholders directly – even where the majority shareholder is an elected minister of the Crown. (Just to be clear, however – Air New Zealand’s shareholding minister is the minister of finance, Grant Robertson. It isn’t Shane Jones.)

    So, if the directors of Air New Zealand are of the opinion that the company’s best interests are served by closing particular routes and opening others, then that’s what they legally are required to do. They simply cannot say “we believe it would be best for Air New Zealand to stop flying to Kāpiti, but we should do right by it and its people so we’ll keep on doing it.”

    In fact, if they were to say that, then they’d potentially be committing an offence that is punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment or a fine of up to $200,000. Not that I think they’d be prosecuted for making one such route decision, but the existence of this offence provision shows just how important these fundamental director’s duties are.”

    Andrew Geddis.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/22-03-2018/does-shane-jones-want-air-new-zealand-to-break-the-law/

    • Blazer

       /  March 24, 2018

      ‘an offence that is punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment or a fine of up to $200,000. ‘Be interested to see who and how many directors have ever been …held to account under this offence.My guess is…..none.

  6. Traveller

     /  March 24, 2018

    https://www.hrc.co.nz/complaint-form/

    Register your protest at an MP ( Julie-Ann Genter) breaching our equality laws

    • duperez

       /  March 24, 2018

      And at the same time register for the “Over-reaction of the Year Club?” The filling of the form saying Julie-Ann Genter breached our equality laws will suffice for membership of that club.

      • i thought her comments steeped in capitalist ignorance rather than principle frankly. These companies, (unlike a Greens recycle weekend) are run to make a profit. They choose people who will bring skills to that end to their company Appointing more than just the odd token person to signal diversity and appease the SJW faction would be suicide.

        • Blazer

           /  March 24, 2018

          What do you think about the appointment of ‘token’ knights to the boards of listed …companies?It rarely…end well imo.

          • If you’re talking Key, then I think it’s more than apparent he is an excellent brand builder.

            AirNZ board – he was Minister of Tourism for nigh on a decade and his business skills are diverse and well respected and sought after.

            ANZ – whatever any keyboard activist warrior may think, he is widely regarded as something of a financial maven and he ran a country that was literally touted as a stand out success, despite the earthquake and GFC.

            If you’re talking Sir Doug Graham then what he did for NZ Maori as far as settlements is unprecedented His big mistake was to trust a company he was Director for and sign balance sheets that were, unbeknownst to him, falsified. He didn’t take the obligation seriously enough and that saw his demise.

            However, ask any Maori involved in the settlement industry and they’ll tell you he is still defined by his bountiful MANA and for delivering to Maori.

            • Blazer

               /  March 24, 2018

              thinking more of Sir Selwyn Cushing,Sir Ron Trotter,Sir Roderick Deans,Sir Ralph Norris,Sir George Chapman,Sir Peter Tait,Sir Robert Jones,Sir Michael Fay…a rogues gallery if ever I …saw…one.

            • Corky

               /  March 24, 2018

              Sir Selwyn Cushing?

  7. lurcher1948

     /  March 24, 2018

    GO THE CANES………………………….WINNERS