Ardern: fuel increase not a tax, it’s an excise

When asked about it being a proposed 10% increase in fuel prices, Ardern is on RNZ trying to avoid saying it is a tax, she says it’s an excise.

This sort of playing with semantics is high risk for Ardern.

Especially when they made claims like this during the election campaign: Labour – no new taxes in first term

Labour won’t implement any tax changes until after the 2020 election, finance spokesman Grant Robertson has announced.

“To avoid any doubt, no one will be affected by any tax changes arising from the outcomes of the Working Group until 2021,” Mr Robertson said at Parliament on Thursday morning

“There will be no new taxes or levies introduced in our first term of Government beyond those we have already announced.”

Robertson made it clear there would be no new taxes or levies – but didn’t mention excise increases, so he’s off the hook there. Maybe.

Oxford dictionary: excise

[mass noun, usually as modifier] A tax levied on certain goods and commodities produced or sold within a country and on licences granted for certain activities.

Labour are still ok on this, it won’t be a new excise (tax), it would just be an increase in an existing one.

 

60 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  April 4, 2018

    She’s just used the same excuse with Mikey as he applied the hurt- it’s an excise tax. She then deflected by reminding Mikey of Nationals tax hikes. But as Mikey said, National were held to account and why should Labour repeat such mistakes when they made promises before the election?

    Jacinda needs to remember a favourite retort from our resident bard. Lurchy. ” NATIONAL AREN’T THE GOVERNMENT!

    • Blazer

       /  April 4, 2018

      in 9 years National increased excise duty by…17c a litre…hardly a whimper.

      • Corky

         /  April 4, 2018

        Yes, I missed it. What you deleted was what Kitty has said over the years. I laid out the facts for her to comment on or rebuke. She plays to your heart strings and for some strange reason you come down on me like a tonne of bricks. Am I expected not to mention the inconsistencies of her ever changing stories?. There is nothing personal about this when she posts these comments on a public blog. We just had Snowflake admit recently, that yes, he sometimes ‘trolls’ me. And he ‘s not the only one.

        Now, as to the above comment. Please tell me what upset you? Then lets go back over the comments you have posted from Lurchy, which can be quite nasty, and then compare notes.

        [This is not debatable. I have made it clear often that personal attacks and personal targeting is not acceptable here. I think I’m fairly lenient, depending on situations, but some take advantage of that and keep escalating. As a result i may have to be tougher, sooner.

        You’ve chosen to make excuses and take a swipe at me. So it’s your choice not to take responsibility or give any assurances. PG]

        • phantom snowflake

           /  April 4, 2018

          I get a special mention from you because I called you out??
          https://yournz.org/2018/04/02/wellington-plans-to-pay-for-projects-by-doubling-debt/#comment-264228

          Any ‘trolling’ I *might* do is just at the level of ‘taking the piss‘ and has no malicious intent. Whereas your comment which was deleted reeked of malice.

          • Gezza

             /  April 4, 2018

            His nasty trolling of Possum is what irritates me.

          • Conspiratoor

             /  April 4, 2018

            Blogs bring out the best as well as the worst in folks snowflake. For many they are simply an opportunity to inflate a fragile ego. They often bring out the sanctimonious ‘who me’ as in your comment here. And they can be genuinely malicious. If you think corky’s comments ‘reek of malice’ I would encourage you to extend your flirtation with the blogosphere. You might be unpleasantly surprised

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 4, 2018

              Every word is loaded with you. How do you do that?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 4, 2018

          MOD to the remarks (lies) about me which are a repeat of the ones that were deleted,I would say that these are personal.

          Ditto Possum and other victims, even if they haven’t been singled out for the detailed personal abuse that I have.

      • PDB

         /  April 4, 2018

        Simply the way of the left – subsidise things like public transport, trains, cycleways, the arts etc that can’t possibly pay for themselves by increasing the load on taxpayer/ratepayers and/or increasing debt.

        • alloytoo

           /  April 4, 2018

          In the lefty’s ideal world, what will they do when everyone stops driving and now uses public transport?

          How the hell is it going to get paid for without a subsidy?

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  April 4, 2018

            (laughing too much to make an intelligent response to this)

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 4, 2018

              What a wonderful/terrible thought. I wonder if the Greens could answer this brilliantly obvious question. Oh dear, oh dear 😀

              It wouldn’t need too much of a change to make it unfeasible 😀

              Can you give yourself an uptick to make up for my only being able to give you one ?

    • lurcher1948

       /  April 4, 2018

      It isn’t going to end well for Labour.They are spending the money on cycleways, for god sake

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 4, 2018

        My Annandales dictionary says much the same, but in more detail and gives examples.

        Nobody’s going to be affected by ….? EVERYBODY will be affected by this, Jacinda.

        I would guess that the 17c was unavoidable, and it was less over 9 years than Labour’s doing in much less time. By the pricking of my thumbs, price increases this way come.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 4, 2018

          Not a tax but an excise…that’s like a previous resident troll who insisted that peas and beans weren’t vegetables, they were legumes.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  April 4, 2018

            John Key said that the government couldn’t regulate house prices, because it would mean that people would be in negative equity with mortgages for more than the house was now worth. This would be grossly irresponsible. Banks aren’t going to knock 20% off the mortgage because the house is now worth 20% less, thanks to government interference.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 4, 2018

              Grow up, PDTs. Would you be happy to have to sell your own houses for far less than you paid for them because the government forced the price down ?

  2. She puts up the price of petrol in Auckland her mate Goff and his fellow crooks are out on their ear

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 4, 2018

    I hope Blazer is counting Labour’s lies.

    • High Flying Duck

       /  April 4, 2018

      He can count?

      • PDB

         /  April 4, 2018

        Only when it suits his argument.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 4, 2018

          They are not lies so much as stupidity and sloppy thinking.

  4. NOEL

     /  April 4, 2018

    Ok so it’s an excise but that is a tax. But because its not a new tax and it is simply raising one of those below somehow that is not introducing a tax.

    That’s got to be the best political spin of the decade.

    “Fuel excise (petrol)
    The fuel excise portion includes:

    59.524 cents – National Land Transport Fund
    6 cents – ACC Motor Vehicle Account
    0.66 cents – Local Authorities Fuel Tax
    0.3 cents – Petroleum or Engine Fuels Monitoring Levy
    In addition, GST is collected on the overall price of fuel including excise. The GST on excise amounts to a 10 cents per litre “tax on taxes”.
    Source AA

    • Gezza

       /  April 4, 2018

      This government may not see out the full term, the way it’s going already. Gonna be scandal/crony/incompetence-plagued & tax/levy crazy. 🤔

      • PDB

         /  April 4, 2018

        Aucklanders/business vehicles stuck on the motorways into/out of the city every day are not going to look kindly on paying more money for less funding of the roads they are stuck on.

        Fuel tax increases also hit the poorest the most who tend to be only able to afford to live in the outer city regions thus have more travel time, less public transport options, can’t bike due to that distance and rely more heavily on their personal vehicles.

        The Waterview tunnel and other major highway upgrades prove that if you build decent arterial roads they are not only the safest roads but they take traffic away from local roads thus making those safer for all users. The policy of removing lanes/parking options means vehicles are on the road longer in the more congested areas as they look for parking or get stuck in traffic.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 4, 2018

          Do we have Votes of No Confidence here ?

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  April 4, 2018

            The new tax (Jacinda Ardern can call it whatever she likes, it’s a new tax) seems to be going down like a cup of cold sick. I felt for the woman who has to pay for Auckland’s transport when she doesn’t live there,

            I hope that I didn’t hear Hamilton-Auckland train mentioned again. It can’t work. It would be prohibitively expensive. People start work at different times. The time taken would be so long that it would be unworkable. It didn’t work because it can’t.

  5. This woman is literally nothing but talk. Her arguments on all aspects of this tax (sorry excise) are simply weasel words. She’s basically saying her voter base will be happy to cough up the extra $40.00 a week, so they can take buses and trains all over Auckland and to the airport (??) in decades time. As for her supporting Curran, if she thinks she’ll weaken her government by sacking Curran, she’s more poorly advised and has worse political instincts than I gave her credit for.

    Listening to this interview with Guyon, Ardern is upset, she’s well annoyed and she’s barely in control. She talked over him continuously, she was arrogant and her describing Curran’s manipulative and destructive actions as a ‘cup of tea at the Astoria’ was very poor form. Shouting over Espiner, with none of her much-touted “warmth” on display and petulantly telling him they should be talking to her ‘wonderful progressive govt’ points is becoming a trend.

    How will people interpret this over time? She has the grace of her 6 weeks off to rest up and reflect, but no amount of her cutesy baby chat will outdo “events” if she is unable to manage them.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018638940

    • Blazer

       /  April 4, 2018

      don’t know what interview with Guyon you..heard…she flogged him.I already told you .on any given day in Aucks you can find a 20c a litre disparity in fuel prices.You pulled the $40 a week figure out of your…bloomers…didn’t you?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  April 4, 2018

        Don’t forget the flow through to everything you buy that is physically transported. Not $40/wk but it will be significant.

        The biggest issue I see is the inefficiency of NZTA in getting value for money in anything it does. They really need to call in management expertise to sharpen up the entire sector.

        • Gezza

           /  April 4, 2018

          I’ll bet they’ve tried that. If they have, they probably brought in the wrong kind of manager(s). What sort of ‘management expertise’ are you postulating here Sir Alan? 😳

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 4, 2018

            Would have to be a mix of economists and technical experts able to compare costs and methods with international comparable best practice as well as looking at our own regional variations.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 4, 2018

      Traveller, even if it is only $40 including the extra costs of things that need to be transported, it’s the oddest way of ending poverty that I have ever heard of. How to lose votes and antagonise people.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 4, 2018

        Traveller, where did the $40 figure come from ? I would like to be able to quote the source when this tax – er,excise – is talked about, as it will be, $40 is appalling, even if it does include everything that will be affected. If it DOESN’T (faints with horror)

        • Traveller

           /  April 4, 2018

          I have no idea where I got that figure. My bad. Add the GST though takes you to 25c pl in Auckland.

          Say I fill my commuting car about 5 x a month x 50 l. So, 250 x 25 = $62.50 per car per month just for an average commuter.

          $750.00 pa

          Not a bad haul

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  April 4, 2018

            Especially from people like the woman on the news who lives in the country but will be paying the 20c tax but not using the services because they won’t have them. She and others like her will be paying far more than the ‘average’ commuter because they have no option but to drive. Their tax will be 100% profit. Let’s say that they use twice as much petrol as the average driver…ten of them will be giving Auckland a present of $15,000 a year. It’s likely to be far more. She was objecting to being taxed for something that she won’t be able to use. There are no buses where she lives and never will be.

            This is an own goal for Labour, I would say.

            Who wants or needs extra transport to the airport ? There are buses and vans going there now.

          • Blazer

             /  April 4, 2018

            so you use 250 litres a month ,some average’ commuter!.Trying to pump up the figures.I told you where your $40… a week came from.

  6. High Flying Duck

     /  April 4, 2018

    • Blazer

       /  April 4, 2018

      there is no ban on foreign.. workers.

      • High Flying Duck

         /  April 4, 2018

        So Labour aren’t trying to curb immigration?

  7. David in Aus

     /  April 4, 2018

    I would like Labour to walk-the-talk and mandate that all ministers and MPs must use public transport in the course of their duties; the exception being for work in rural areas.

    Airforce helicopters do not count as public transport, sorry Ron.

    The last thing we want is the rulers parading in their cars while the rest are forced into public transport.

    • Blazer

       /  April 4, 2018

      Meteria always took the bus to Parliament from the…airport.

      • David in aus

         /  April 4, 2018

        What’s your point? Did she take public transport all the time or just one bus route?

        • PDB

           /  April 4, 2018

          I know something she did take every week without fail during the 1990’s…

  8. David in aus

     /  April 4, 2018

    Weren’t the election promises fully costed? Why the tax increases?
    The budget hole is appearing in front of our eyes. Stephen Hawkins could predict black holes but Labour’s budget holes are more mysterious.

    • PDB

       /  April 4, 2018

      All smoke and mirrors to pay for the Auckland tram (airport – CBD) – which will be costly to run, unable to pay for itself, will further congest roads where it will run, used by very few people (mainly tourists I’d suspect) and much slower & less convenient than the current quick drive through the Waterview tunnel.

    • PDB

       /  April 4, 2018

      Part of the ‘fiscal hole’…

      Sept 2017: “Labour is unclear how it will fund a $5 billion plan for modern trams in Auckland, but says Auckland Council will shoulder a “significant” share of the cost.

      Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesman Phil Twyford today said he did not know how the costs will be shared between the Government and Auckland Council, except to say council will not pay the majority.

      Twyford also did not know whether modern trams, also known as light rail, will sit on the Government or Auckland Council’s balance sheet.

      The overall plan would cost $15b, including the light rail projects to the airport and West Auckland, and had a $6b funding gap, he said.”

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11921175

  1. Ardern: “the effect of any (tax) changes will not occur until after the next election” | Your NZ