Immediate action on climate change could save $billions

Both the environment and business could benefit in New Zealand if early action is taken on climate change.

NZH: To act now or later: the $30 billion climate change question

Immediate action on climate could save New Zealand tens of billions of dollars, according to a Westpac report.

Based on research conducted by EY and Vivid Economics, the report shows the New Zealand economy could benefit by $30 billion by 2050 if government and business take early action on climate change.

It also shows that New Zealand could simultaneously reduce carbon emissions and achieve economic growth.

The report models two scenarios, one that involves an earlier and smoother transition to a lower carbon economy, while the other hypothesises a decade-long delay in action followed by a shock event that forces the nation to act.

The report makes a business case for acting immediately.

Westpac NZ chief executive David McLean said the report shows the need to take immediate steps to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“The alternative is waiting and taking action later, but that is likely to require more drastic changes in behaviour and over the long-term hit people harder in the pocket,” he said.

“The average gross domestic product growth is forecast to be 2.015 per cent per year until 2050 if industries take early action on addressing climate change. If substantive action is delayed and companies have to play catch-up later, this falls to an average of 2.005 per cent. The cumulative difference is $30 billion.”

While the report shows that action on climate change will result in a reduction of the economic contribution of some industries – including forestry and fishing, dairy meat and other food products and non-renewable energy generation – these will be countered by significant gains in renewable energy generation.

Inaction is unlikely to insulate food production businesses from the market changes due to climate change mitigation.

This trend is already being reflected in the financing decisions being made by Westpac.

“Our lending to green businesses that are helping to provide solutions to climate change stands at $1.5 billion. We’ve set a new target to lift that to $2 billion by 2020,” said McLean.

Since 2012, Westpac has also reduced lending to companies involved in fossil fuel extraction and production by 55 per cent to $318 million.

McLean said Westpac commissioned the report to get better insight into the risks facing the bank from climate change.

“We believe businesses need to be thinking about and planning for climate change now, not only from a risk perspective but also for the growth opportunities it presents to many parts of the economy,” he said.

“Smart companies should start focusing on those opportunities as part of their business strategy.”

Businesses planning for their futures need to be considering the possible effects of climate change, and the certain effects of market changes.

41 Comments

  1. There are about 5 million of us.
    That’s the population of a lot of cities throughout the world.
    Those countries have wildlife running about doing their thing pretty much the same as our farmed and wild stock here.
    When the greens stop flying to conferences held in scenic parts of the world I’ll take them seriously

  2. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 4, 2018

    Honestly, how can you take this stuff seriously? Treasury can’t forecast growth next year to one decimal place let alone three for the next thirty years. Let alone forecast what technologies and discoveries will be available by then. And I bet the supposed growth in renewable energy will be as illusory and dependent on taxpayer subsidies as it has always been.

    • Griff

       /  April 5, 2018


      [Deleted abuse]

      Goodman sachs
      http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/pages/alberto-gandolfi-wind-and-solar-boom.html?mediaIndex=1&autoPlay=true&cid=sch-pd-google-windandsolarboom-searchad-201707–&mkwid=dTJD8Sup
      What started as a decarbonization process thanks to better technology is about to become a process driven by costs and the economics.

      businessinsider
      http://www.businessinsider.com/iea-says-renewable-energy-costs-falling-2017-10?IR=T
      The cost of renewable energy is now falling so fast that it should be a consistently cheaper source of electricity generation than traditional fossil fuels within just a few years, according to a new report from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA).

      lazards

      Bloody Luddite Conservatives fantasists .

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  April 5, 2018

        Tell us what a great job wind generators did for the Chathams, Griff.

        • Griff

           /  April 5, 2018

          In case you did not notice I replied to your claim that renewable can not operate without subsidy.
          A business going broke that had sold inappropriate technology to a small community.
          Tell me what that has to do with anything?
          I know.
          Small furry animals are cute and resonate with your fantasy world view.

          I live off grid.
          It was cheaper to go solar and battery than to run the power cable 350meters up my drive. That is without paying for the monthly power bill. You would not run a power cable across to the Chatham’s.It would never be economic. A diesel generator costs about the same as solar to buy and will wear out long before panels do. The running costs with their fuel imported from the mainland would more than pay for batteries over their decade of life.
          That’s using old tech
          You can now get both lithium and carbon crystal that will last far longer and not degrade from cycling like lead acid will.

          You would have to be another conservative Smegwit if you did not have solar/wind and storage in the Chatham Islands today.

          One day you might learn how to reply to points made instated of just pulling more bullshite from your arse .

          Oh wait Griff you are falling into the trap of thinking wingnuts could use logic to support their arguments.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 5, 2018

            FWIW I also have some solar power but don’t fool myself it is an economic option for most people. Wind and solar have to be valued at the substantially discounted price that allows for the necessary backup for their intermittent nature. Of course their proponents ignore that. Batteries won’t cut it for the foreseeable future.

            • Griff

               /  April 5, 2018

              Hello Alan
              We live in NZ.
              We don’t need batteries or storage in this country .
              We already have these really really big energy storage devices called hydro lakes. As well we already are the filth biggest generator of geothermal energy in the world.

              The more wind and solar we install the less we need to pour the hydro water or geothermal steam though turbines .

              What we need is to totally do away with burning fossil fuels in the next twenty years .

              Our major use of fossil fuels is in transport

              The switch to electric cars will result in greater demand .
              As said cars are storage devices they can be fueled off peak periods when energy is plentiful and cheap like when the wind blows and when the sun shines.

              We need to build out a smart grid
              A modern term for this century that means energy suppliers can use pricing to control usage and manipulate demand when transitional supply deficits happen it also means distributed generation from renewable’s are included in the power mix not just large centralized power stations.

              This transition is going to happen
              No amount of deluded whittering by right whingers on blogs or writing to papers by luddite old pale male and stale winguts will stop this transition.

            • chrism56

               /  April 5, 2018

              As usual Griff, you know nothing about energy and you continue to display it. There is no plentiful energy. There are no cheap storage systems. Smart grid is only an unproven concept talked about by people that don’t know what they are talking about. Distributed generation doesn’t work unless you have a lot of ancillary support (mainly inertia, voltage control,, frequency) from large centralized power stations.
              And has been pointed out before, name calling people who disagree with you just shows your insecurity.

            • Griff

               /  April 6, 2018

              bla bla bla we will still need Buggy whips.
              Hydro is a storage system in case you did not know .
              No one is talking about turning off our hydro systems.

              Smart grid is only an unproven concept talked about by people that don’t know what they are talking about.

              ROFL

              Of course siemens. dont know what they are talking about

              https://www.siemens.com/global/en/home/products/energy/energy-automation-and-smart-grid.html

              Neither does The usa’s office of energy reliability
              https://www.energy.gov/oe/activities/technology-development/grid-modernization-and-smart-grid

              Or our own government .
              http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/electricity-market/nz-smart-grid-forum

              Distributed generation doesn’t work unless you have a lot of ancillary support (mainly inertia, voltage control,, frequency) from large centralized power stations.

              https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-outsmarts-lumbering-coal-units-after-loy-yang-trips-70003/

              That’s battery staroage not only doing the job but doing it quicker and cheaper than large centralized power generators can already.

              Jesus mate wake up and get with this century…

              I call you what you are
              Conservative Luddites clinging to lumps of coal.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 6, 2018

              Batteries are only capable of bridging the gap between wind/solar failure and backup start-up. They cannot sustain mains supply. Hydro storage is good but rivers still have to run, rain/snow is seasonal and duplicate generation capacity has to be funded. Your intemperance doesn’t improve your case.

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              Alan – forget it. Griff is[Deleted]
              Sure he can Google “Smart Grid” but he didn’t even bother reading what he linked to. MBIE wants input into what a smart grid should have and Seimens will sell you stuff for it if you are stupid enough to buy from them.
              NZ uses about 110GWh per day. The big battery bank they opened in SA with much fanfare (and even more money) could run NZ for about 90 seconds. Great help that would be (sarc).
              NZ is actually one of the best System Operators around and have done a very good job of integrating load management with generation. Tiwai sheds load when there are unit trips down south to keep the frequency fluctuations. A lot cheaper option than spinning reserve.. No SO supports smart grids because they know they don’t work. It isn’t Brains of Britain stuff – You only need to be a heavy electrical engineer in the business to know that.

            • Griff

               /  April 6, 2018

              NZ uses about 110GWh per day. The big battery bank they opened in SA with much fanfare (and even more money) could run NZ for about 90 seconds. Great help that would be (sarc).


              [Deleted abuse]

              The point was not storage .
              As already pointed out many times we have bloody big hydro lakes for that
              The point was “ancillary support (mainly inertia, voltage control,, frequency)”\
              You claimed it can only be resupply by large centralized power generation
              and that batteries could not do the job
              It can and is proving to be cheaper and faster than your large centralized power generation


              [Deleted abuse]
              is the fact you make a claim
              when it is pointed out you are wrong you crate a straw man to prove you are right

              [Deleted abuse]

              Lazards say renewable power is as cheap as or cheaper than fossil fuel burning and is still on a leaning curve driving down costs.
              You claim they dont know nothing .
              Seimens is one of the leading producers of power technology world wide according to you they dont know what they are talking about.

              shite oh dear

              [Deleted abuse]

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              Griff you wrote “That’s battery staroage not only doing the job but doing it quicker and cheaper than large centralized power generators can already.” Then you wrote “The point was not storage .”
              I mean hello – Having a bit of problems with your meds are you?
              It is obvious when you are losing an argument – you get more abusive. That is what got you banned wasn’t it.

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              Oh and by the way Loy Yang are 560MW units. The 100MWh batteries provided 8MW. so less than 2% of what was needed. The other thermal units on the grid at the time provided more and in faster time.
              Here is a more sensible link on what happened
              http://www.wattclarity.com.au/2018/03/fcas-in-action-what-happens-when-a-generator-trips/
              And what the graphs show the batteries did was synthetic droop, not inertia or frequency control. Because batteries are synthetic AC, they can’t provide voltage control.

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              In case it seems disjointed, the last two posts of mine were in response to a posting that I suspect PG has since deleted as not meeting the blog’s standards.

            • Griff

               /  April 6, 2018

              ROFL
              Your big centralized power generator tripped out.
              A unit one thousand miles away responded quicker than your graphs recorded .This is despite the fact they are not even paid to do so.
              The unit is one plant from one manufacturer at the leading edge of deployment .
              In a decade such systems will make your large fossil fuel plants obsolete for grid regulation.
              Semeins GE Tesla and many others are bringing such systems to market.
              http://www.gegridsolutions.com/productexplorers/solarexplorer/default.aspx#/ges-technology-solutions
              https://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/renewable-energy/distributed-and-hybrid-power/energy-storage-solutions.htm

              The smart gird is coming.
              No amount of backwards looking and head in the sand denial by you or anyone else is going to stop that .

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              You still don’t understand how a grid works, do you Griff. Frequency is the same everywhere. And as the website I linked to shows, the big coal units responded before the batteries did – except they did it as part of their normal operation, not something that cost about $300M.

            • Griff

               /  April 6, 2018

              Smart grid is only an unproven concept talked about by people that don’t know what they are talking about.

              Seimins et al dont know nothing about power generation.
              Frankly laughable assertion.

              Because batteries are synthetic AC, they can’t provide voltage control.

              of course they don’t.
              Batteries are dumb storage devices
              Inverters do however provide voltage control.
              http://www.sma-australia.com.au/partners/knowledgebase/pv-power-plants-the-future-of-power-grids.html
              Even my home unit will do it along with my inverter generator.

              I linked to shows, the big coal units responded before the batteries did
              The battery system reacted in 140 milliseconds injecting power for a few seconds before the dinosaur plants could react,
              Your graph doesn’t have enough resolution to even pick that up.
              this is hidden by this comment.

              [Finally a note on chronology – it’s curious that system frequency appears to start falling well before the major changes in generation, by about 12-20 seconds, and then to stabilise before the bulk of the generation response arrives. Whilst the data used in these charts is all timestamped according to AEMO’s public files, I strongly suspect there are some measurement lags or timing offsets present in this raw operational data, and it’s likely that in real time the inflection points in frequency and generation levels respectively line up much more closely than shown above.]

              Woops that because the batteries supplied power as the coal plant tripped out to quick for the system to even register.
              The system information you linked to aimed for a six second response time not millseconds.

              As to Griff is banned.
              feel free to back up your assertion matey
              I am not presently banned or blocked on any web site anywhere.
              I was stood down On KB.
              That expired February.
              Unlike some I use the same identity .
              Griff is who I am online in NZ .Offshore I use Kiwi Griff to deferential myself from other Griffs commenting on WUWT,The Guardian and the Washington Post
              If i did expose my real name you would find nothing searchable about me on the web anyway.

              .

            • chrism56

               /  April 6, 2018

              What grids are Seimens and General Electric the system operator for?

            • Griff

               /  April 6, 2018

              What grids are Seimens and General Electric the system operator for?

              What grids could function without their products ?
              Not ours.
              Stay on subject mate
              Instead of going off small mammal hunting.

              According to some bloke on the interwebs

              Smart grid is only an unproven concept talked about by people that don’t know what they are talking about.

              As well as the worlds leading producers of gird control technology linked to above these peploe also know nothing
              http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/electricity-market/nz-smart-grid-forum
              That is some laughable rubbish you post.

  3. Trevors_elbow

     /  April 4, 2018

    Virture signalling… targeting 2 billion lending to “green” businesses…..its chicken feed for Westpac in terms of lending portfolio… all to allow the trendy Green tag to be added to their advertising… Greenwashing bumpf

    • Blazer

       /  April 4, 2018

      ‘Virture signalling…’= ‘reflex denigration’.

  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 4, 2018

    Strange. Stuff had this story up recently but seem to have pulled it completely. Seen as Westpac advertorial? Complaints from competitors?

  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  April 4, 2018

    King Canute must be looking down and laughing his head off.

    Nobody ever explains how it was that global warming happened in the early Middle Ages and then changed back again with mini ice ages.

    • David

       /  April 4, 2018

      The Medieval Warm Period has been deleted from history, you’re not allow to talk about it any more…

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 5, 2018

        Shall if I want to (makes rude face)

  6. chrism56

     /  April 6, 2018

    Griff
    You keep posting links to websites you either don’t read or don’t comprehend. It is obvious you are googling terms, then posting things that look relevant in a spray of confirmation bias. You have no knowledge of electricity generation or grid operation. Even simple terminology is beyond your comprehension. You cannot understand even simple concepts or the fundamentals.
    To make it simple – name one self-contained grid (>2MW, 24MWh/d) that runs on “smart” technology. Name one similarly sized grid that runs solely on wind and solar power with battery backup. Once you have found those, then maybe you may be competent to discuss things. Until then, you are just a Know- Nothing.

    • Griff

       /  April 6, 2018

      Still looking back I see
      Buggy whips manufacturer circa 1900.

      https://alearningadayblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/nyc-1900.png?w=578&h=289&zoom=2

      https://alearningadayblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/nyc-1913.png?w=768&h=399

      hello mr squirrel hunter .
      Read the thread
      It is about here in New Zealand .

      Right now we are running on 97% renewable power.
      Modern battery systems can provide the peaking power and modulation services we need easily and cheaper than gas peaking plants can.
      They dont need to sit there idling just in case .

      Adding more wind and solar will be easy for us
      We can use the hydro to do what you have repeatably claimed can not be done.
      Hydro lakes are storage.
      The more wind and solar we add the less we are reliant on rainfall into the lakes .
      It is a very unusual day when we don’t have wind blowing somewhere in this country.
      Solar in nz is more economic than elsewhere due to the clear skys we have .
      In nz we get about 1200watts sqm as apposed to the 1000watts sqm in the northern hemisphere .
      Wind, solar and batteries are developing technology’s that are getting cheaper as we learn and ramp up production capacity.
      Gas, coal and oil are all mature tech that are if anything getting more expensive.

      You are clinging to the past
      Fortunately the leaders in the generation industry are looking forward .
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11975445
      Mercury NZ has selected Tesla as the provider for a scalable national grid-connected battery trial after a tender process launched last September.

      A direct grid-connected battery is a large-scale battery able to take, store and return energy directly to the national grid, making it possible to provide energy when usage is high or supply is disrupted.

  7. Griff

     /  April 7, 2018

    Gee
    lets see
    first alan
    nonrenewable can not survive without subsidies
    I Link to lazards price comparisons.
    Alan then brings up a squirrel about wind project from 2010 that went broke.
    When I point this out Alan makes a empty assertion that wind and solar can not compete despite the evidence already presented and moves the goal posts with another assertion claims batteries can not compete for the foreseeable future .

    Criss then pipes up with a gish gallop of assertions

    you know nothing about energy and you continue to display it. There is no plentiful energy. There are no cheap storage systems. Smart grid is only an unproven concept talked about by people that don’t know what they are talking about.

    So i link to major suppliers of energy technology discussing their smart gird products, the Tesla project in au also our government effort here in NZ .

    Criss then shifts the goal posts claiming that the power project did not supply energy modulation services
    Links to a site the actually has a little disclaimer about mysterious gremlins that somehow interferes in the crash.
    I point out that’s because their system is so much slower than the response of the Tesla batteries that they can not even tease out its operation .

    Alan claims

    Batteries are only capable of bridging the gap between wind/solar failure and backup start-up. They cannot sustain mains supply.

    umm it was a coal plant that tripped
    The Tesla plant project is not big enough to take up for a major power plant failure .
    That’s just an issue of scale not one of price or capability of the tech .Considering the time between contract and operation the plant has proven its worth .
    How many could you get up and running in the time it takes to build one coal plant ?Tesla took 100 days from proposal to operation.
    Within its capacity it can and does do both power modulation and mains supply.

    The purchase price is the cost over many years.
    The Tesla plant will continue to operate without fuel and minimal maintenance for the next two or three decades at lest. Fossil fuel generation on the other hand has to be fed and maintained at considerable cost over it life .You also need to dispose of some very toxic by pruducts.

    The issue is NZ
    We don’t have big unreliable coal plants that regularly crash.

    cris the shifts the goal posts yet again.

    NZ uses about 110GWh per day. The big battery bank they opened in SA with much fanfare (and even more money) could run NZ for about 90 seconds. Great help that would be (sarc).

    We have already had the fact we have hydro that is a storage system and we don’t need to build capacity for taking up the crash of large centralized fossil fuel generators.
    Distributed as already reference means lots of plants from your neighbors solar panels to a wind farm on a remote coast not one big centralized power plant .

    Criss again empty assertion

    Tiwai sheds load when there are unit trips down south to keep the frequency fluctuations. A lot cheaper option than spinning reserve.. No SO supports smart grids because they know they don’t work.

    Thats a smart grid mate.
    In the future we will be able to switch off far more than one plant..
    The tech is already here.
    ya connect the internet to the power distribution system.
    Real hard.
    I worked on a residential development with such tech almost a decade ago.
    If the owner can do it they can also sell that ability to the grid operators .
    Tens of thousands of units that can turn off water heating and other demand from anywhere at anytime .
    That will be a part of the coming smart grids distributed networking .

    Another smart grid tech already here is you can control a Tesla cars power usage from the net.
    That includes warming your car, adjusting charging rates and many other functions
    Very soon when more cars are both electric and connected the grid could be modulated by controlling their power draw .
    Nissan is trailing using their cars as grid connected batteries so not only can they modulate draw but also supply energy.

    Connected to the net any power source or draw can be modulated from anywhere from my bedroom to a space ship on its way to mars CONNECTED AND SMART is only expansion of what we already have. A smart grid is not outside of our present technology.

    criss with a straw man

    What grids are Seimens and General Electric the system operator for?

    Umm they are two of the worlds biggest suppliers of industrial scale power generation products.
    They don’t run grids.
    They build them.
    One would hope that they are authority’s on future smart grid technology.
    What criss argument boils down to is a truck driver is an authority on truck engineering.
    Instead of an operator working with the tools others supplied.

    again criss shifts the goal posts .

    To make it simple – name one self-contained grid (>2MW, 24MWh/d) that runs on “smart” technology. Name one similarly sized grid that runs solely on wind and solar power with battery backup. Once you have found those, then maybe you may be competent to discuss things. Until then, you are just a Know- Nothing.

    We have a renewable grid in NZ.
    That’s what we are discussing NZ’s power future.
    NZ already has geo and hydro in abundance.
    Wind and solar are as cheap as running older fossil power plants now they will only get cheaper. From the guy down the road installing a few panels to a large industrial concern building their own micro grids.
    With distributed energy you don’t need a few billion and many years it takes to build a dam or fossil fuel plant . Entry starts at a few thousand to take part in the coming energy revolution.Price will dictate investment.

    We are talking about a transition over the next two decades not today .
    By the middle of next decade solar and wind will be cheaper than fueling a fossil fuel power plant let alone their total costs. Cost will drive investment .

    We are at over 90 percent renewable as I write this .
    https://www.transpower.co.nz/power-system-live-data
    Battery based storage would only need to make up for spikes and modulation.
    They don’t need to run the entire system for days like our little friends try to assert.

    • Gerrit

       /  April 7, 2018

      Perhaps a reality check of a battery supported electricity grid can be found in Adelaide.

      “The new battery will produce enough energy to power about 30,000 homes for a little over an hour.”

      and

      “South Australian taxpayers will spend up to $50 million subsidising the 100-megawatt battery.”

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-23/worlds-most-powerful-lithium-ion-battery-finished-in-sa/9183868

      However

      “The plan also included a fleet of diesel-powered backup generators”

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-13/diesel-generators-installed-in-adelaide/9145332

      So a battery is never a total solution unless one has a ton of cash (A$260M) and a battery in every suburb. Even then the battery in Adelaide will only last for one hour before needing a recharge.

      Yes batteries are a start but not a viable option in terms of cost versus benefit to date. The need for diesel generators is still there. I would suspect that for essential services such as hospitals, a diesel back up generator with large diesel storage tanks to feed it will be a safer option instead of a battery for a while yet.

  8. Griff
    Everything you have posted confirms my earlier statements, You didn’t even bother to read the embedded documents in the MBIE site you linked to.
    From what you have written, you have proven you have no understanding of concepts or how things actually work. You can’t even realise that there is a difference between generation and the grid.
    All your rants prove is there is a deep lack of engineering nous in the blogging population.

  9. chrism56

     /  April 7, 2018

    Here is the merit order for Australian power stations.

    It is worth noting that the difference between the displayed costs and the $3500 to $4000/MWh cost to the consumer is mainly taken up by the financial support for renewables.

  10. chrism56

     /  April 7, 2018

    And here is the response of the old fossil fuel generators on a dumb grid to the Loy Yang trip.http://www.wattclarity.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/image-3.png.
    The contribution by batteries is that tiny red sliver at the top of the middle graph.
    The technology used is just the modern equivalent of ripple control which has been around since the thirties

    • Griff

       /  April 7, 2018

      criss
      I pointed out the data does not even resolve the speed of response .
      Here is the clue from your linked site
      [Finally a note on chronology – it’s curious that system frequency appears to start falling well before the major changes in generation, by about 12-20 seconds, and then to stabilise before the bulk of the generation response arrives. Whilst the data used in these charts is all timestamped according to AEMO’s public files, I strongly suspect there are some measurement lags or timing offsets present in this raw operational data, and it’s likely that in real time the inflection points in frequency and generation levels respectively line up much more closely than shown above.]
      That stabilization was from the Tesla batteries responding in 140 milliseconds not from magic power gremlins.

      I am not interested on repeating the same old point until you get it.

      The discussion about our capability to go carbon free for electricity in NZ not what the coal fired idiots in AU do.

      Fossil fuel power generation is a zombie technology.
      As pointed out by PG’s original post it is not if we move away from it but when.
      Doing so sooner will give us economic benefits that outweigh the costs .

      You have posted that seimans and GE know nothing about smart gridd power generation technology.
      That is enough to conclude debating with you is a useless waste of bandwidth.

  11. chrism56

     /  April 7, 2018

    Then why is Huntly firing up on coal this morning if it is zombie technology and not needed? As long as we have people like Griff trying to lead the support for the new, the old has an assured future.