Jacinda Ardern ramped up climate change and fossil fuel debates this week when announcing a freeze on any more off-shore oil and gas exploration licenses. While she may have put the cart before the horseless carriage this is really just the beginning of ‘a conversation’ – aka consultation – on New Zealand’s future energy use.
Nadine Higgins: Jacinda’s ‘nuclear-free moment’ puts Government one step ahead of the public
On the campaign trail, Jacinda Ardern declared climate change was this generation’s “nuclear free” moment.
When her Government this week announced new offshore oil and gas exploration permits would no longer be granted, the pundits went further, asking, was this her nuclear-free moment?
But I think the answer is no, not quite.
I can’t be sure whether Jacinda smelt fossil fuels on anyone’s breath, but the clear difference is New Zealand’s opposition to nuclear weapons was driven by public opinion. Even as US relations were dealt a major blow, the majority still supported the Government drawing our nuclear-free line in the sand.
This line in the sand, however, appears to have been drawn before the public has caught up, if the outcry from oil-reliant regions, mayors, companies and motorists is anything to go by.
That feels like it’s all round the wrong way.
It is round the wrong way – it’s notable that the Greens have applauded the move while seeming to conveniently forget their commitment to sound democratic processes. It seems that if the cause is important enough (for the Greens) then due democratic process doesn’t matter.
I think this highlights an arrogance from the Greens – they think that their cause is so just that if they push it through the public will automatically support it and vote for them in hordes. That is not based on any history or facts.
So, the move away from reflectorship back to leadership is a little jarring, but that doesn’t make it wrong.
There have been many reforms that went against the tide of public opinion at the time but were later lauded as a seminal moment in history that happened not a minute too soon.
I think about the reform that legalised homosexuality in the 1980s and can’t believe it was ever illegal in my lifetime.
The Civil Union Bill in the 2000s drew thousands of protesters out into the street. Yet a little over a decade on, civil unions barely even rate a mention because of the passage of the Marriage Equality Act.
While important as social reforms they were on a far different scale to a massive move away from the fuels that the last century and more of progress has been built on.
It might not feel like it now, but we’ve got a bit of time to figure this out, and time to get the public on the right side of this history-making line in the sand.
I think Higgins is right here.
After making her announcement (with mixed messages, especially from Shane Jones) and getting an immediate and strtong reaction Ardern launched into damage control by sending Andrew Little to New Plymouth to try and win over people who had twice refused to vote him in as their MP.
There is time to get this right. Ardern has to step up and show leadership here, and that means more than regular photo ops.
This is a flagship change policy for the Green Party, so it’s important that they put aside their self righteousness and arrogance and engage in explanation and debate with the public rather than dictation, and indignation at any criticism.
James Shaw has championed climate change as his big thing. He beamed at the announcement on curbing exploration a few days ago.
Shaw needs to convinced his Green supporters that promoting their cause will be enhanced somewhat if they engage with the general population, and persuade their case rather than impose it. And they need to learn to not throw hissy fits if questioned or criticised – that’s not how good democracy functions.
And Shaw needs to make his case to the wider New Zealand audience, beyond his Green bubble.
With such a wide ranging change being promoted Greens need to widen their scope somewhat. I remember being disappointed before the 2014 election when Greens announced a solar energy subsidy policy. I asked them why they didn’t include energy conservation through subsidising double glazing retrofits, and they said it wasn’t their current focus. That was disappointing tunnel PR vision.
If Shaw and Ardern fail to get the public on their side their grand ambitions may fall over as soon as the 2020 election.
Good should come out of their push for more energy alternatives, but if they want to succeed with a major transformation in Kiwi attitudes and energy use they need to practice what they preach, transparency and sound democratic processes.
They have time to get it right, but the need to get it right, or their big aims will be put on hold or overturned by a grumpy bunch of voters.
Griff
/ April 15, 2018The national party signed up to Paris agreeing to limit our emissions to 30% less than 2005 by 2030.
http://www4.unfccc.int/submissions/INDC/Published%20Documents/New%20Zealand/1/New%20Zealand%20INDC%202015.pdf
The present government has merely started to create the policy frame work needed to head towards honoring nationals global commitments.
Yet we have a steady stream of comments claiming this is some sort of surprise change in direction from the greens .
well duh…..
Alan Wilkinson
/ April 15, 2018That’s a fair point, Griff. However the closer we get to 2030 the less realistic that commitment will probably seem and the more company NZ is likely to have in failing to meet it.
Griff
/ April 15, 2018http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/05/new-zealand-to-spend-14-billion-to-meet-paris-agreement-targets.html
Nationals policy was to pay billions to other country’s to reduce their emissions for us.
Personally I would rather see that money spent here to actually reduce NZ emissions.
We then own the assets and will continue to save rather than pay for some other country’s efforts indefinitely .
David
/ April 15, 2018“Nationals policy was to pay billions to other country’s to reduce their emissions for us.”
No it wasn’t, they were going to do the same as we did for Kyoto, sign the document, then ignore it. There was no cost to not meeting any of the goals, same with the Paris agreement.
PartisanZ
/ April 15, 2018“Duh” is next year’s National Party catch word …
… following on from this year’s catch phrase, “Virtue signalling” …
Gezza
/ April 15, 2018This is countered easily enough by Labour repeatedly stating that National is “whining”.
Gezza
/ April 15, 2018(well, I mean, it COULD be, when they cotton on to that.)
David
/ April 15, 2018“The present government has merely started to create the policy frame work needed to head towards honoring nationals global commitments.”
Why would they do this? No other country has any intention of honoring these commitments.
Kitty Catkin
/ April 15, 2018Write out 1000 times ‘I must not be a cynic’ and hand them into me by the end of school tomorrow.
David
/ April 15, 2018They have no plan and its totally the wrong way round. Why not introduce progressively more restrictive emissions standards or things along those lines, because it would actually take some thought on how to transition. Nope they reach straight for the ban hammer.
Progressively we can all make changes, my car complies with the latest Euro 6 emissions standards, I only eat free range eggs, wont eat any dairy product from NZ, recycle everything possible, walk or bike, all my houses have insulation and heat pumps as does my home etc etc which may not be much but if we keep making small changes they will accumulate into a better planet. Business see money in these improvements and being a better corporate citizen.
Griff
/ April 15, 2018Emissions standards
What do Euro 6 emission standards have to do with greenhouse gas emissions Dave?
I do think cleaner cars are good .
but
Complying with euro 6 says nothing about your grams of CO2 per Km traveled
Many country’s have indicated a date for banning new fossil fuel cars outright
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles
David
/ April 15, 2018Euro6 is more than green house emissions it covers the ones that do localized damage to people, its progress.
If Ardern had said she was banning fossil fueled cars that would have been awesome and would be a seminal moment worth celebrating. All she did was turn us into an importer of oil, I know what she is trying to do and she was kinda forced into doing something after accepting the greenpeace petition but she could have been bolder.
The trouble we have now is its a wasted opportunity to spend some political capital in making a meaningful change, with a half arsed ineffectual one we now have the incredible moment of representatives of the oil industry as sympathetic figures. This is probably her worst moment so far and the Greens despite being giddy got nothing, come 2020 good luck on the campaign trail when there has been no reduction in fuel consumption or greenhouse gases.
Griff
/ April 15, 2018Dave we are an importer of oil.
We dont actually use what little we produce we export almost all of it.
The change in policy is merely to stop the issuing of new search permits not to ban exploration on existing permits or to stop oil production.
The change will have little effect on our economy for at lest the next twenty years.
We can not produce oil cheaply in this country.
Especially as the regions that have the most chance of success are well south of any existing infrastructure.
David
/ April 15, 2018Yup, apparently our stuff is really good and we import the crappy stuff for local use. but I dont think it negates my preference that Ardern should do something about the demand/use of fossil fuels not the supply and wasted her opportunity.
I am a bit of a fan of gas as its far less bad than coal and others and we are likely to need it for many many more decades and we should continue to drill for it. Having say an electric fleet of cars on the road will need extra generation capacity and having it gas fired is probably the only way we can do that.
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018But I think the reality is that business doesn’t react to climate change until something tangible happens: an engineer designs a stop bank; an insurer puts up fees, inventors try to make cars more efficient etc.
Business cannot organise for the benefit of a whole society. For example, if the government could bowl a whole block of houses and redevelop (without cutting corners to maximise profit) we could have energy efficient housing based on cycle lanes (once you get used to cycling it feels good).
Capitalism creates wealth by efficiently utilising resources [think Hokitika in the gold rushes]
that fits with the principles of ecology, however if we draw two concentric circles (inner/outer), the outer is the worlds ecosystem; the inner is the human economy?
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018This is a no win position for any government. I remember a significant acceptance of peak oil as a reality followed by a plethora of enthusiasm for new technologies. That enthusiasm waned as most were fizzers. The Monbiot pointed out we have “enough oil to fry us”/ fracking became a reality. But the fact remains our economy/society is not something that can be managed as though we were a large corporation.
The economy is layered around essentials and on the outer frivolities. Society is held by genetic bonds at the centre (family) – although we adopt people into our family or greater tribe [Johnathon Haidt says we are held together by sacred ideas but they must deliver something to the group?]. On the outer we exchange goods and services for our well being [ think a woman in Tijuana selling crape paper flowers] . An economy without cheap energy is a smaller economy producing less; making us poorer. In the 1930’s depression people on farms did better than those in town as they could live off the land. Likewise those with gardens do better than those without – yet government mandated population growth has pushed us into cross-leased houses and apartments?
Gezza
/ April 15, 2018An economy without cheap energy is a smaller economy producing less; making us poorer.
Not a bad point. Took a bit of finding.
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018I was musing. I realise it wasn’t top scholarship.
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018Utopian socialists will bless the loaves and fishes?
Griff
/ April 15, 2018An economy without cheap energy is a smaller economy producing less; making us poorer.
Indeed.
Lets see what is the cost of energy? How do we make it cheaper? So we can grow the economy and make us all wealthier.
Oh that’s right .
Utility scale Wind and Solar are already the cheapest power source and declining .
David
/ April 15, 2018“Utility scale Wind and Solar are already the cheapest power source and declining .”
Wind and solar have major problems that are yet to be solved at the utility scale, they are not the cheapest power source because there as massive costs to make it work as a system.
Your figures have not calculated the capacity factor. A PV solar power source will only generate about 10% of the nameplate capacity, a nuclear plant will be closer to 90%. You need 8-10 times the size to get the same actual generating capacity, and you also need a way to store.
The fact you miss this says you are either trying to misled, or you are painfully ignorant of this.
Kitty Catkin
/ April 15, 2018These are good, but it costs money to make and install them, they will certainly have oil as a component and wind turbines need wind and are very, very noisy. This last hadn’t occurred to me ! They are enormous, I saw one being transported and couldn’t believe how huge it was when it’s seen close up. Heaven knows how much oil it used in production and transport.
A tiny smart car was parked near the house; I admired it greatly. It was only a two-seater, but it probably goes all day on a teaspoon of fuel.
Kitty Catkin
/ April 15, 2018Figure of speech, Griff and Robert.
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018There was an item on RNZ about the Nissan leaf. The high capacity (170km) battery declines at 10% per year as opposed to 2 or 3%. After a few years you need a new battery costing $5 to $6000
sorethumb
/ April 15, 2018https://electrek.co/2018/03/26/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-replacement-program/
Griff
/ April 15, 2018Say it slowly levelized cost per kilowatt hour
That’s the cost of supplying each kilowatt hour to the grid .
ie takes into account capacity factors and every thing else.
For about the fifty forth time storage is not an issue in NZ… We have storage coming out our ears. Hydro lakes are a form of energy storage .
Trans power says in NZ more solar would make the grid more reliable up to 2000mwhs because it self regulates .
You are clutching a straws my friend .
chrism56
/ April 15, 2018LCOE is rubbish Griff but you aren’t actually knowledgeable enough to drop your mantra. That is because wind and solar generate when their power isn’t wanted and can’t generate when it is needed. At the very least, Avoided Cost should be used and don’t include preferential tax credits for a true comparisonhttps://www.eia.gov/renewable/workshop/gencosts/pdf/lace-lcoe_070213.pdf
But then you know more than the EIA as well as TransPower and all the generators. (sarc)
Griff
/ April 15, 2018chrism56
I posted the comparison between the IEA projections and what has actually happened
if you believe the IEA projections after seeing that repeated failure over a decade you need some really really good help. The IEA is a legacy industry captured lobby group and has proven to be unfit for purpose if you want to discus the future of energy in an informed way.
lazards levilzed costing without subsidy and takes into account the entire life time cost of energy
I could provide more links to sources that give the price of solar and wind if you really like
but hay you can not cope with one so reinforcing it will not help your delusion.
I am not discussing AU ,the USA ,Germany or anyone else I am interested in NZ and our energy future
I have pointed out to you multiple times yet you still don’t get it
We have storage in this country
Our main generation source is based on hydro storage .
Not coal oil or gas.
Hydro and geothermal as base load allow us to increase solar and wind with no down side for a considerable amount of total capacity
As both these energy sources are cheaper than alternatives it is a win win
[Stick to debate, leave out berate. PG]
ROFLMAO
Some peploe .
Griff
/ April 15, 2018Oh and chisim
energylive.aemo.com.au/Innovation-and-Tech/-/media/45ACDCBA73CE46A585ACBFFB132EF9B0.ashx
This is the Australian energy market operator report on the HPR
Please note it confirms what I have been telling you for days
The HPR is faster and more accurate in frequncy response to crashes like the one were the crappy old tech coal plant failed than legacy turbines can ever hope to be .
To the extent that they will have to rewrite the book on frequncy response to take into account how fast battery and inverters respond to such events .
chrism56
/ April 16, 2018You are back into your factoids and rubbish again Griff,. You are saying that wind and solar are the way to go for NZ and post LCOE from unknown and unlinked sources (not NZ) to support you. Then when something comes up to oppose that – you claim that isn’t relevant because it isn’t NZ. You can’t have it both ways.
And learn how to read. There is a difference between IEA and EIA.
I know what the battery did – about 1.6% support – so how many million were paid for what the coal fired plants provided for free? And how much inertia did the battery supply?
Griff
/ April 16, 2018https://www.lazard.com/
Lazard, “the world’s leading financial advisory and asset management firm, advises on mergers, acquisitions, restructuring, capital structure and strategy.”
The source is on the url for the chart if you click on it .
jesus h christ
factiods
That’s real supportable facts not the opinion of some anonymous commentator on the web.
The coal fired plant crashed causing the outage mate
You do understand that ?
Obviously not.
The coal plants dont provide grid support for free ,
Read the market operator report .
The cost of an asset is over its entire life .
Saying it cost x for a one off incident is the height of stupidity.
As is looking at one leading edge project built in 100 days and thinking that is going to compete with 100years of building fossil fuel plants.
HPR is the biggest grid storage plant in the world .
A record that will not last the year.
https://inhabitat.com/hyundai-to-build-battery-50-larger-than-teslas-south-australia-system/
The world is changing quickly.
Your legacy industry’s are not capable of keeping up with those changes.
Fossil fuel energy generation is a zombie technology. Like film cameras , photocopiers, mainframes and many other former dominant industries it is going to become nothing but a museum display to wonder over surprisingly fast .
chrism56
/ April 16, 2018So Griff’s great unimpeachable document that he is using as the gospel and to rubbish everyone else is from a finance company touting for business from suckers. The company has never built or operated a plant, nor do they have any regulatory fiat to get information. They can’t even cite sources, using words like illustrative, meaning they are guessing.
As I know you don’t read the small print, here it is. The costs for solar are for a station in Arizona with 4000 hours of sunshine a year. That is why their UF is 32% In NZ conditions, that is halved, so costs are doubled straight away. The wind cost is from a UF of 55%, The long term one for Meridian is about 37% with very high maintenance costs. Lazard have life expectancy a lot higher and mortality a lot lower than plants are achieving. They have lithium batteries on heavy duty cycles lasting 20 years.
I don’t know if it is ignorance, stupidity or arrogance driving you, Griff – I suspect all three. Now stop using Google and confirmation bias to display your ignorance on the subject.. Someone with a skerrick of knowledge would know the difference between EIA and IEA, which you have demonstrated you don’t.
And by the way, you are in breach of copyright (and implicating PG as well) as you didn’t read the footer and definitely don’t have the consent of Lazard with your previous posts.
Griff
/ April 16, 2018ROFLMAO
yip
chrism56
Lazads is rubbish.
So we go to Bloomberg New Energy Finance
https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/
Solar energy’s challenge to coal gets broader
Solar is already at least as cheap as coal in Germany, Australia, the U.S., Spain and Italy. The levelized cost of electricity from solar is set to drop another 66% by 2040.
By 2021, it will be cheaper than coal in China, India, Mexico, the U.K. and Brazil as well.
3
Onshore wind costs fall fast, and offshore falls faster
Onshore wind levelized costs will fall 47% by 2040, thanks to cheaper, more efficient turbines and advanced OPEX regimes. In the same period, offshore wind costs will slide a whopping 71%, helped by experience, competition, and economies of scale.
Or the world bank group
Challenge and Opportunity
http://www.worldbank.org/en/results/2017/11/29/solar
Solar power is set to grow rapidly in developing countries, displacing fossil fuels. Solar photovoltaic (PV) generation costs have been decreasing rapidly. In several countries, the cost of PV power is already lower than coal and gas. The trends are encouraging: renewables are leading power-generation deployment globally, solar is leading renewables’ deployment, and developing countries already represent more than half of global solar deployment.
Bringing markets to scale has led to reductions in prices. Clearly defined deployment strategies by governments, transparent financial and institutional structuring, and competitive procurement, including auctions, have helped de-risk and scale up markets. In certain countries guarantees or concessional financing are necessary in the initial stages of market growth. The World Bank Group is seeing a surge of interest from its clients in solar power as a result of the dramatic cost decreases over the past few years.
Oh dear
do try to keep up mate
even more rubbish
That lazards Graphic is available from multiple sources around the web.
I am sure lazards dont mind me pushing their expertise.
Why supporting facts hurt your head mate?
Face it you are nothing but an futile voice for a dying industry.
Griff
/ April 16, 2018trans-power
Electricity is a convenient means of transferring and using energy. In New
Zealand, our hydro lakes store energy on a large scale. However, until now we
have had limited options to store electricity cost-effectively close to where it is
used.
Around the world, battery technology now offers opportunities to store electricity
economically, close to where it is used. It can also store local sources of
generation, such as rooftop solar, and smooth out the impacts that variable
generation can have on the power system. Widespread, distributed storage could,
and most probably will, fundamentally change the way that power systems will be
operated in the future.
Long-term, we expect that battery or other storage technologies installed in
homes, businesses, vehicles, distribution networks and grid substations could
alter our transmission business by covering short-term imbalances in supply and
demand. We will be able to operate the power system differently, having more
flexibility to schedule energy transfers and grid outages to optimise the use of the
grid, grid generation and distributed energy resources. We explore these future
possibilities in depth in our perspective document,
Transmission Tomorrow
https://www.transpower.co.nz/sites/default/files/publications/resources/Battery Storage in New Zealand.pdf
Transpower on solar.
We found that the existing New Zealand power
system is an enabler: the core transmission
network can accommodate significant solar PV
in addition to the existing generation mix and
present demand for electricity.
Ensuring a balanced power system
– the existing
generation can ramp up to cover a winter evening
peak with 4000 MW of solar PV.
Partly cloudy days
– the distributed effect of
fast-moving cloud cover across New Zealand has a
negligible effect on the power system, even with
4000 MW of installed solar PV.
Response to sudden events
– there is reduced
capability to respond to system events. However, the
potential magnitude of such events is also reduced.
Standards for solar PV inverters could help improve
capability in this area. We anticipate this reduced
capability to become an issue as we approach 2000
MW of solar PV.
Power system stability
– the power system remained
stable. As solar PV increases, we will monitor any
trends using existing systems and carry out further
studies.
…
…
Grid voltage management
– we anticipate issues as
we approach 2000 MW of solar PV. These can be
mitigated through operational measures, such as
switching out transmission circuits, as happens at
present over night when electricity demand is at its
lowest. However, such sustained removal of parts of
the grid from service can reduce reliability and
resilience. Therefore, grid investment in appropriate
voltage control equipment may be more appropriate
to enable voltage management and maintain existing
reliability and resilience when solar PV is reaching
this rate.
All five effects would likely be mitigated or delayed by
the uptake of storage technologies such as batteries.
https://www.transpower.co.nz/about-us/transmission-tomorrow/solar-power-new-zealand
Gee battery and solar for a more resilient grid
Inverters are already required to meet NZ standards
chrism56
/ April 16, 2018Bloomberg is a media company with no expertise in either power stations or grids. They are just a clearing house for PR releases. Their name says it all. You haven’t presented facts, just a lot of half-baked thoughts. And your cutting and paste technique of stuff out of context is tiresome. You go all round the place as your thoughts have no coherent thread. You were arguing about utility wind and solar being the way to go. Then when I showed that the numbers were wrong, it has become household PV. Oh, and I forgot batteries in the mix.
When you become a paid consultant, you might be credible. Currently, you are just a blogger with a fixation. And how is the name of the operating smart grid or grid running solely on wind and solar coming on?
Griff
/ April 16, 2018ROFL
You did not show the numbers are wrong .
You made a claim that is based on your ignorance.
You halved the output .
hello solar dont work like a binary switch when the sun goes behind a cloud.
It still generates on a cloudy day.
Due to our clear skys solar in NZ generates more than the standard 1000 watts sq meter used global.Here its more like 1200watts sq meter.
Same reason why kiwis have the highest rate of skin cancer.
your link to the EIA says it depends on the existing generation profile
Ours is based on hydro not coal or gas as in the USA.
If you are paid consultant god help the poor sods that pay for your nonsense.
The EIA is just another legacy based lobby group for the fossil industry
Their history when it comes with renewable energy is just as bad as the IEA.
chrism56
/ April 16, 2018But of course Griff, you know so much more than Solyndra, Solar Millennium AG, Energy Conversion Devices Inc, Q-Cells, Solon, Solar Millenium, Solarhybrid, Ener1, Range Fuels, Beacon Power Corp, First Solar, JA Solar, Suntech, Odersun, Conergy, Sunways, Scheuten Solar, Solar-Fabrik, Sovello, Solar Valley, Abound Solar, Centre for Solar Excellence, Bosch Solar, BP Solar, Siemens Solar, Swissolar, ECOtality, SunEdison, Sharp, Mark Group, Abengoa, Pescanova, Solexel AKA Beamreach.
chrism56
/ April 16, 2018As usual, Griff, you are so full of shit it takes so long to disprove all of it. However, the main point – Niwa in this document says:
https://www.niwa.co.nz/sites/niwa.co.nz/files/imported/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/95523/EnergyScape-Basis-Review-Section-2-_Renewables__E.pdf
“The accumulated, average, yearly, solar energy gain for New Zealand is about 1400 kilo-Watt-hours per square metre (kWh/m² per year). ” That is a capacity factor of 15.98%.
Figure 2.1.17 shows that solar irradiance, which is a direct measure of PV potential has a 30-1 variability
So we establish that yet again, you don’t know what you are talking about, but make a lot of noise trying to prove that you do
Griff
/ April 16, 2018wtf are you on about now ?
Clean sky in nz mean solar works better than in the polluted northern hemisphere
That’s just a fact.
That is because wind and solar generate when their power isn’t wanted and can’t generate when it is needed.
That’s you
Hello
Peak demand is not the issue in nz
We have hydro lakes that store shiteloads of energy and can already supply peak demand in full/
Solar and wind is how we will increase capacity to allow electric cars to take over the transport sector.
No one will build new gas or coal plants.
What are here will be retired ahead of the life expectancy.
Smart grid
like you know the new power meters already installed here and the fact that we already charge on demand will allow renewable to take over from the small amount of crappy old gas and coal we still have running.
NZ is going to do away with what legacy fossil fuel generation we have
Because climate change .
As to the list of solar company’s
wtf is that about .
brain fart?
love the niwa link
first of we will look at what you said above and what you just quoted
The accumulated, average, yearly, solar energy gain for New Zealand is about 1400 kilo-Watt-hours per square metre (kWh/m² per year). Although this is not as high as in the desert areas of Northern Australia, the United States ofAmerica, North Africa and the Middle East (2,100-2,400 kWh/m² per year),
Oh dear you made up some bullshite there it is not halve is it now .
Even more fun is hot panels reduce output.
On a sunny day output drops off as the panels heat up.
When its cloudy they cool between burst of direct sunlight so you actually lose less production than just straight radiation hours would suggest.
You would know that if you had any actual knowledge of solar panels.
•
The gravy bit
Thats you
Solar has dropped in price far more than Niwa projected in 2009.
it is now competitive well before 2050.
chrism56
/ April 17, 2018Phoenix, Arizona is about 2450kWhpa. NZ is 1440. 58%. And the UV parts of the spectrum are not a significant input into the output of PVs. We have already established that you know nothing of power engineering Griff. Now you are proving you don’t understand the underlying physics either. You are in a hole and continuing to dig. But then you know more than all the world’s scientists, don’t you. I am surprised that no-one recognises your brilliance.
Griff
/ April 17, 2018I know far more than you about both solar and wind
for the simple reason they have been a part of my daily life for over a decade
I supplied two more reports confirming solar and wind is cheap and getting cheaper.
yet here you are still disputing lazards
why is that ?
As you pointed out sunlight hours in Arizona are over double that in nz.
Why don’t solar outputs match that ?
Because our clear skys allow more solar radiation to hit the ground per hour of direct sunlight
You have even confirmed that .
2450kWhpa. NZ is 1440Whpa.
1440 times two is 2880.
2880 is not equal to 2450.
NZ 1200watts per sq meter
Northern hemisphere 1000watts per sq meter because of human aerosols in the atmosphere.
You just proved this for us with your own numbers .
rofl
Kitty Catkin
/ April 15, 2018I read that as five dollars to six thousand, which was startling.
I seem to remember reading that the batteries are hard to find, but this may have changed.
PDB
/ April 15, 2018It is Labour’s ‘nuclear-free moment – both this and nuclear-free were/are purely symbolic gestures to distract from major govt issues on the home front and that had/will have virtually zero effect on the outside world or the global issues it was/is meant to be addressing.
admiralvonspee
/ April 17, 2018One wonders if PM Ardern asked PM Macron whether France’s ‘nuclear-free moment’ was on the horizon?