Open Forum – Sunday

15 April 2018

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55 Comments

  1. There is supposed to be an opinion poll out this week. I think most people would confidently predict the honeymoon is over but how far will it drop. How will Kelvin cope with having to comment or will he still be in witness protection? What will Winston’s reaction be to being in the margin of error? Will the Greens go toxic at their drop?

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 15, 2018

      “Witness protection” … LOL!

      Don’t be too sure about Labour crashing. A lot of people are still hopeful about them … a lot of younger people are I think? And a lot of people see the provinces as having benefited …

      I reckon they’ll stay just above National, who are an ineffectual Opposition beginning to disintegrate …

      Labour 43%, National 40%, Greens 4%, NZF 3% … and the rest don’t count …

      Which means, if I’m not mistaken, there are more undecided voters?

      They’ll vote for TOP next election. ActionStation, for instance, are starting to promote policy reform like ‘their’ Justice reform which is almost word-for-word from TOP’s policy … “evidence-based” … Let’s hope they don’t do another Max Harris “strategic voting” Bullshit Promotion next election and undermine their own efforts?

      Reply
    • robertguyton

       /  April 15, 2018

      Wishing the worst on your own Government, Chrism56?
      Not very helpful, are you!

      Reply
    • David

       /  April 15, 2018

      Labour 39 National 42 Ardern down 6 points on preferred PM..anyone else wanting a guess.
      Its Colmar Brunton which had a wild poll pre election as they have changed some of their methodology but be great to see a poll.

      Reply
  2. robertguyton

     /  April 15, 2018

    Nadine Higgins: Jacinda’s ‘nuclear-free moment’ puts Government one step ahead of the public

    “This line in the sand, however, appears to have been drawn before the public has caught up, if the outcry from oil-reliant regions, mayors, companies and motorists is anything to go by.

    That feels like it’s all round the wrong way, especially for a country that was governed for so long by a party regularly accused of making policy, or changing it, based on what the polls said.

    So, the move away from reflectorship back to leadership is a little jarring, but that doesn’t make it wrong.”

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  April 15, 2018

      It is the stupidity of it that makes it wrong.

      Reply
      • robertguyton

         /  April 15, 2018

        Showing leadership, rather than reflector ship is “wrong”?

        Reply
        • David

           /  April 15, 2018

          Strong brave leadership is great, look at Venezuela and North Korea rather than those of Japan and the US and their pandering to voters wants and wishes.

          Reply
  3. PartisanZ

     /  April 15, 2018

    I notice Lotto are really ramping up the online gambling with lots of new ‘Instant Pay’ … sorry … ‘Instant Play’ Games …

    The latest offering this morning is BOP DICE … Whatever that is …?

    https://mylotto.co.nz/

    Gamblers spent $555 million on NZ Lotteries Commission products in 2016/17, up from $437 million the previous year … That’s quite a big hike!

    https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Resource-material-Information-We-Provide-Gambling-Expenditure-Statistics

    In Feb 2008 “15% of the adult population are problem gamblers who account for 33% of expenditure on gambling, 2 overseas studies indicate that this figure may be as high as 43%.”

    http://www.communityresearch.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/formidable/northey1.pdf

    Although Lotto, Scratchies and Keno only constituted 1.5% of those seeking help. ‘Non-casino pokies’ are far-and-away the biggest culprit for those seeking help at 73.3% …

    I wonder if that’s changed in ten years, and especially since Lotto’s recent ‘revamp’ and their ‘acquisition’ of higher self-imposed gambling limits?

    I guess as government and NGO social services are progressively deprived of government or taxpayer money, the gambling take has to be massively boosted to fund the Charitocracy who are increasingly picking up the pieces?

    Reply
  4. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 15, 2018

    Is NZ racist?

    Dunno, ask Black Power and the Mongrel Mob.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 15, 2018

      The person who said that NZ’s as racist as fuck (whatever THAT means) has also said that he wishes he knew how to love, but in NZ that is classed as a mental illness.

      Reply
    • phantom snowflake

       /  April 15, 2018

      I asked them and they said “Yes it is”.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  April 15, 2018

        Is it possible the people they meet are judging them by their appearance and actions and records rather than their race?

        Reply
        • phantom snowflake

           /  April 15, 2018

          With those in particular who have facial tattoos; many people find these confronting and intimidating, and that probably isn’t specifically a racial issue. On the other hand; there are claims which I find credible, that Black Power and the Mongrel Mob are largely a product of children who have been placed in state care. The vast majority who were selected for this were Maori, and some would say this is evidence of Institutional Racism.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 15, 2018

            I suspect the gang patch is sufficiently intimidating with or without tats.

            Since the vast majority of kids killed by their supposed caregivers are Maori it seems likely that they would also dominate those placed in state care even without racism.

            Reply
            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 15, 2018

              Oh dear. It sounds like we are heading towards the ideas that Maori are culturally inferior and western civilization is supreme again! That’s enough for me.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 15, 2018

              No, we are heading towards an understanding of what is racism and what is not. Obviously that is not somewhere you want to go.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 15, 2018

              Also:

              You – Ph.D.
              Me – First Aid Certificate

              I’m outgunned to say the least!

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 15, 2018

              There are plenty of foolish PhDs, ps. Don’t bail out on that basis. I’m just trying to point out the subtleties in trying to judge racism and how it gets mixed up with valid fears and issues.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 15, 2018

              This may seem like a diversion, but at times I’m acutely aware that compared to you and more than a few others here my debating skills are an absolute joke. I’m intrinsically a highly irrational person. The extent to which I make sense here (small though it may be) is astonishing, given my nature. I’m tangential and neuroatypical. I can write poetry and stream of consciousness, but “build a cogent argument?” Hilarious! Still, I suffer from the delusion that in some small way I can provide something of value, even if it be unintentional humour…

            • Pickled Possum

               /  April 15, 2018

              Tautoko that korero, PS.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 15, 2018

              Cheers muchly PP!

            • Gezza

               /  April 15, 2018

              You talk much sense, on a regular basis snowy.

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 15, 2018

              Mostly on General Chat though LOL… But I thank you.

            • Pickled Possum

               /  April 15, 2018

              AhAhA!!! Look Whoz Talkin! #Talkerofsenseyourself. 😉
              Just been out to Lock and Load and with one smoking Barrel
              put those pesky Opossums into their urupa.
              Sigh, more skins to extract, tomorrow.
              Night.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 15, 2018

              Tangents are good, ps. They all add to the mix of ideas and discoveries. So do challenges and tests. Nobody else took my little bait here and it is interesting to see where it goes.

    • Pickled Possum

       /  April 16, 2018

      Alan Wilkinson / April 15, 2018
      Is NZ racist?

      Dunno, ask Black Power and the Mongrel Mob.

      Al dontcha know about the Chinese and Pakeha that belong to those groups. 😎
      They seem to be a multicultural gang bit like the police, freemasons, et al
      So can BP and MM be racist???

      Former Mongrel Mob frontman Harry Tam who had got a job as a
      policy adviser with the Corrections Department.
      In 2001 …
      He said the explosion in gang membership over the past decade
      had been the result of government policies that killed work schemes.

      I happen to know that the guy who designed the game MM Defence is a Pakeha
      now that’s what I call racist.
      https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/348575/mongrel-mob-app-totally-unhelpful-and-totally-stupid

      disclaimer … I do not belong to any gang and I don’t think I’m racist
      some of my bestest friends have glow in the dark skin.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  April 16, 2018

        Interesting, Possum, but I’m confused about what you think is racist. Can you explain?

        Reply
        • Pickled Possum

           /  April 16, 2018

          dickshonary explanation this is how I perceive racist …
          a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

          what does that word racist mean to you?

          Y did you write ‘Dunno, ask Black Power and the Mongrel Mob.’

          do you see these gangs as predominantly Maori?

          That is what most think and I was just making a presumption about why you mentioned them. was I wrong??

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 16, 2018

            Yes, I do see them as predominantly Maori. Why is that racist rather than just (possibly) inaccurate?

            Māori gangs and Pacific youth gangs
            All images & media in this story
            Stormtroopers interview
            Stormtroopers interview
            Mongrel Mob members
            Mongrel Mob members (1st of 3)
            Black Power
            Black Power
            Crips gang
            Crips gang
            Killer Beez in court
            Killer Beez in court
            Emergence of ethnic gangs
            Ethnic gangs began to form in the 1960s as Māori became urbanised and lost touch with tribal communities. Various explanations exist for the formation of indigenous and ethnic-minority gangs, including: intergenerational impacts of colonisation; social exclusion; cultural alienation; economic deprivation; institutional discrimination and racism; and bonding through a sense of common identity. Unlike some overseas ethnic gangs, which limit membership to a certain ethnicity or nationality, Māori gangs may recruit from other ethnicities.

            Largest gangs
            The largest of the Māori-dominated gangs are the Mongrel Mob, Black Power and the Nomads (who split from Black Power in 1977). Others with significant Māori memberships include the Tribesmen (formed in the 1980s in South Auckland) and the Stormtroopers (formed in 1969 in Dargaville). These gangs have the same structure as the Hell’s Angels: a president, vice-president, sergeant-at-arms, patched members, prospects (unpatched recruits) and associates. As with outlaw motorcycle clubs, women cannot become patched members.

            https://teara.govt.nz/en/gangs/page-3

            Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  April 15, 2018

    Trump says operation Stormy is a success, or maybe not,,,,105 missiles to divert attention,from POTUS#45 shortcomings
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/distraction-skepticim-on-trump-syria-strikes_us_5ad1740de4b0edca2cb9fd18

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 15, 2018

      Doesn’t he have convictions himself ?

      I found his remarks very chilling; he seemed to regard Karla as his possession rather than his stepdaughter and see the murder as an attack on his property rather than as an atrocity done to her.

      Reply
      • Pickled Possum

         /  April 15, 2018

        “Snatched off her bike on her way home from the shops, the 13-year-old was tortured, raped and abused by Dally for 22 hours before he buried her alive in a shallow grave on the Pencarrow coast.”

        Middleton, aged 44, was guilty on three charges of threatening to kill the man who murdered his stepdaughter, schoolgirl Karla Cardno, 11 years ago in Lower Hutt. He was found not guilty on two other charges of threatening to kill.

        A psychiatrist said: Mark is suffering from a condition known as chronic hypertrophic grief – that is a dysfunctional bereavement reaction.

        He stood in the dock, facing a jail term for threatening to kill Paul Dally – the killer of his stepdaughter Karla Cardno – but his nine months jail sentence was suspended for two years.

        Really Miss! Do you have any children or have you ever been a stepmother?
        To lose a child in that way just would make you go a little crazy.
        Abused Raped and Tortured for 22 long hours then buried Alive ….
        What would you say, Miss?

        Your lack of empathy is the only chilling thing here.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 16, 2018

          It’s not lack of empathy, it was the way he talked about her as if she was his property, his woman – it was most inappropriate to talk about a child in that way. How can that be seen as chilling ? It was bizarre to talk about a child in the way he did.

          I have every sympathy for the child who had this happen, but was disagreeably surprised by the ‘my woman’ atttitude of the stepfather, it wasn’t the attitude that one would expect of a father, which is why it has stayed with me.

          Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 16, 2018

          I don’t think that you read my comments properly, or did so with bias. My sympathy was with the victim.

          Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  April 15, 2018

    Is it “locked and loaded”
    or”loaded then locked”
    as everyone knows the USA are (FU*KWITS) who knows what they mean,105 missiles to destroy 3 complexes,, the saying( the USA are over sexed and over here) we didnt like them then and we dont like them now

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  April 15, 2018

      They always say locked and loaded but I’ve never understood why myself: it sounds like they get it backwards. It probably does have some relevance. I’ve assumed they might be talking about locking the top down on a belt-fed machine gun. In which case the sequence would make sense. A lot American jargon doesn’t make sense. It don’t make no never mind to me.

      Reply
      • Gerrit

         /  April 15, 2018

        Locked and loaded means that the weapon carrier is getting prepared for combat, the first round is in the chamber but for the safety of those friendlies around you, the weapon is locked. All one needs to do is flick the safety off to confront the enemy.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  April 15, 2018

          Makes sense. Ain’t got no argument with that.

          Reply
        • Gerrit

           /  April 15, 2018

          For clarification it is the correct order is lock (lock the trigger and prevent the weapon from firing) and load (insert the magazine if not aready fully into the weapons and load a round into the chamber)

          Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  April 15, 2018

      Seems the media have forgotten about homeless people now, Lurch. And child poverty.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  April 15, 2018

        It hasn’t turned into LABORS problem yet, they are still cleaning up bill englishs decisions

        Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 15, 2018

      No, but I remember Sir JOHN Key. Knights are never called Sir Surname, Their wives are Lady Surname unless they have a title in their own right, like Lady Diana Spencer.

      Reply
  7. sorethumb

     /  April 15, 2018

    Academia’s Consilience Crisis

    Excerp
    As it turns out, not all social sciences are made equal – some are not even scientific, and will henceforth be referred to as ‘social studies.’ In an interview for the Simulation Series, Dr. Peterson explains the important difference between psychology and women’s studies: the former makes use of stringent scientific methodology for conducting research whereas the latter has none to speak of whatsoever. Peterson goes on to point out that women’s studies scholars generate hypotheses but do not test them, with no attempt at falsification or replication; two prerequisites for virtually everything considered true using the scientific method. Instead, women’s studies instructors insist on notoriously unreliable subjective accounts and rhetoric as the foundation of scholarship. Professors and students of any field employing similar pedagogy therefore have no ground on which to dispute the results of scientific research, if their claims are given by fiat and unsupported by anything meeting comparable standards of evidence.
    http://quillette.com/2018/04/08/academias-consilience-crisis/

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  April 15, 2018

      Excerpt

      Reply
    • phantom snowflake

       /  April 15, 2018

      Brilliant review of Peterson’s 12 Rules For Life: An Antidote to Chaos:

      Reactionary white men will surely be thrilled by Peterson’s loathing for “social justice warriors” and his claim that divorce laws should not have been liberalized in the 1960s. Those embattled against political correctness on university campuses will heartily endorse Peterson’s claim that “there are whole disciplines in universities forthrightly hostile towards men.” Islamophobes will take heart from his speculation that “feminists avoid criticizing Islam because they unconsciously long for masculine dominance.” Libertarians will cheer Peterson’s glorification of the individual striver, and his stern message to the left-behinds (“Maybe it’s not the world that’s at fault. Maybe it’s you. You’ve failed to make the mark.”). The demagogues of our age don’t read much; but, as they ruthlessly crack down on refugees and immigrants, they can derive much philosophical backup from Peterson’s sub-chapter headings: “Compassion as a vice” and “Toughen up, you weasel.””
      http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  April 15, 2018

        Sounds dangerous, ps. I wouldn’t read him if I were you.

        Reply
      • sorethumb

         /  April 15, 2018

        Romancing the Noble Lobster: What Jordan Peterson Understands, and Pankaj Mishra Ignores
        Justin Lee

        Pankaj Mishra is not an intellectual hack. He has drunk deeply from both Western and Eastern humanist traditions, written an award-winning novel and a wealth of incisive cultural and political criticism, establishing himself as an eminent practitioner of belles lettres.

        No, the man is certainly not a hack, but you wouldn’t know that from his recent review of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.

        Peterson’s book embodies the notion – once taken for granted among literary humanists like Mishra – that the great literature of the world contains actual wisdom worth applying to one’s life, and that delight in discovering such wisdom is a principle characteristic of the Western tradition. 12 Rules combines eternal verities with insights from contemporary social science to instruct readers how to live virtuous, meaning-filled lives.

        At its best, 12 Rules seems to channel Viktor Frankl; at its worst, it waxes a bit too poetic about lobsters. To Mishra, however, it’s a frog-marching manual for budding fascists.
        The absence of any content that could be deemed even vaguely fascistic is, in the hands of Mishra, not an obstacle but an opportunity. His method is one common among intellectual slanderers: sketch a loose genealogy of your target’s thought, identify “problematic” thinkers tainted by associations (however tenuous) with fascism (or any other menacing -ism), moralize about the evils wrought by this tradition of thought, and ensure your reader can’t help but fix your target firmly within that tradition. In this way, you can denounce a thinker without ever examining his thought.
        http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2018/04/11/4828823.htm

        Reply
  8. sorethumb

     /  April 15, 2018

    Here’s another excerpt from
    Academia’s Consilience Crisis
    Taleb argues that, because scholarly success is determined by other academics in the realm of abstraction, opportunity exists to create intellectually sequestered spaces in publications and institutions. In these spaces, far-flung notions can circulate by catering to an audience of sympathizers unrestricted by competing theories; a rendition of the “echo chamber” phenomenon, in which only reaffirmations of specific views and attitudes are given oxygen. In contrast to the remote academics under discussion, Taleb provides counter-examples of various tradespeople such as bus-drivers and physicians, whose means of subsistence are subject to regular performance reviews and end-consumer satisfaction. They therefore cannot appeal to cadres of sympathetic colleagues for career sustenance. Taleb makes distinctions between the Arts and STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics); because the latter interfaces with material reality, the echo-chamber effect is largely circumvented.
    http://quillette.com/2018/04/08/academias-consilience-crisis/

    A great magazine

    Reply

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