Open Forum – Wednesday

18 April 2018

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93 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  April 18, 2018

    Waiting for complaints from the usual suspects that Jacinda is is bad for making Angela look frumpy …

    • David

       /  April 18, 2018

      Theresa May makes Merkel look frumpy, she is frumpishness personified, there is a photo of her in the dictionary under “frumpy”.
      She does make Ardern look good though with one small caveat when attending a formal welcome with a military parade button up your damn jacket.

      • Gezza

         /  April 18, 2018

        🤔 You don’t happen to be a fashion designer, by any chance David? 😳
        Tbh, you weren’t one of usual suspects until now. 😐

        • David

           /  April 18, 2018

          I am a stylist to the middle aged kiwi bloke, more than just a hobby but not enough to make a career out of it. Seriously my wife dresses me.
          I had some years in the British Army and a guard of honour takes a lot of work to put together and is one of the more formal occasions for a soldier so while our girl looked great for a casual wander down a boulevardblatt with a friend she could have been more buttoned up..literally and figuratively. Its a look which like immigration policy is something she shares with Trump.

      • Missy

         /  April 18, 2018

        To be fair to Jacinda maybe her jacket wouldn’t button up over her bump….

        On the other hand, at least her outfit was better than the one she wore to meet Macron.

        I think she got the outfits the wrong way around tbh, after all Macron is French and his wife is a bit of a style icon, that she looked frumpy there was a bad look for NZ, but in that outfit she wore yesterday she wouldn’t have looked as frumpy today in Germany.

      • Missy

         /  April 18, 2018

        Yep, I was thinking that Merkel made Jacinda look less frumpy, but also that dress and jacket appear to work better for her, though I haven’t seen a close up look to be certain.

        • Gezza

           /  April 18, 2018

          I don’t ordinarily like criticise the way politicians dress but must admit the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia did make President Trump look frumpy.

          • Missy

             /  April 18, 2018

            Not hard I would have thought, to be honest FLOTUS makes Trump look Frumpy.

          • David

             /  April 18, 2018

            its a shame but there arnt many tinpot dictators left adorned in fabulous uniforms with sashes and a million medals. For me the world is a less interesting place.

          • Gezza

             /  April 18, 2018

            Keep an eye on Shane Jones. At the rate he’s currently awarding himself intersting & novel new titles he could be very impressively adorned by the end of this government’s term if it lasts the full distance.

            • Missy

               /  April 18, 2018

              If Ron Mark doesn’t beat him to it by adding a few extra medals….

            • David

               /  April 18, 2018

              It would suit his pomposity and verbosity and I could see him quite comfortable delivering a Castro type 6 hour speech.
              On the flip side doling out a billion bucks of the regions hard earned taxes back to the regions for photo opportunities and votes while destroying their economies could see him in a Saddam type pickle.

    • lurcher1948

       /  April 18, 2018

      The female posters on a nearby rightwing blog are convinced she buys her clothes in op shops,and try to rip her to peaces

      • Missy

         /  April 18, 2018

        That’s harsh, I would have thought she looks more like she shops at Farmers or Ezibuy, Maybe Glassons. Of course 3 years plus out of NZ I am not sure what they are like these days for Fashion, and she may just as easily shop at David Jones (I understand they are now in the old Kirk’s building).

        • Blazer

           /  April 18, 2018

          love to see you and travs wardrobes and have them …critiqued by a fashionista…typical ,green eyed women.My guess is you look like Dawn French and probably,dress like her.

          • Missy

             /  April 18, 2018

            Not green eyes Blazer, rather blue.

            And I am more Cate Blanchett than Dawn French……

            But gee it’s nice (or creepy) that you have thought about what I might look like.

            • Blazer

               /  April 18, 2018

              [Deleted, inappropriate, personal]

            • Missy

               /  April 18, 2018

              Blazer, that comment – if meant the way it reads – is disgusting, and sexist. It is not the first time you have directed sexist and (occasional) borderline misogynistic remarks to known female posters.

              It is comments like that which make boards like this a hostile and unfriendly environment for women, it is no wonder there are few women who post here if they come on and read some of the stuff you post.

            • Blazer

               /  April 18, 2018

              these sensitive women who post have no qualms about lambasting the appearance and dress sense of NZ’s 37 y.o P.M….talk about hypocrisy.

            • Missy

               /  April 18, 2018

              Discussing what the PM is wearing vs you making disgusting comments about milking shed and breeding barn, with the clear sexist overtones, are two different things.

            • Griff

               /  April 18, 2018

              But are you really a chick ?
              On KB they have a Harriet who is a guy.
              Its the net we have no way of really knowing what you are .

              As to Ardern.
              Who cares what she wears ?
              She aint a guy who can buy one suit and use it every day anywhere and get away with it.
              Bringing up her dress to attack her I find sexist and inane .

            • Blazer

               /  April 18, 2018

              NZ has a proud tradition of landgirls working on farms and in the Thoroughbred breeding industry.Nothing disgusting about..it.

    • Zedd

       /  April 18, 2018

      Angela is a politician not a fashion model.. I think she is about 20 years older than Jacinda..

      btw; I quite like Angie.. she has a nice smile ! 😀

  2. David

     /  April 18, 2018

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5625353/EU-risk-civil-war-says-Macron.html

    Some European leaders just refuse to see what is happening right in front of them, they chastise their voters and citizens for being ticked off with the awful job they are doing and label them dolts, racist, nationalists and basically old and out of touch with the modern thinking.
    They have ceded sovereignty to the EU which is not popular but has allowed them to abdicate responsibility and they have opened borders which has been a disaster. Macron rather than being exasperated by the way folk are voting but actually listen to them, Austria, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Holland, France, Germany have all had massive lurches to anti immigrant anti EU parties who dont want to suffer what is called the “Swedish Problem”.
    Out of touch aloof leaders (see Obama) lead to all sorts of consequences.

    • Missy

       /  April 18, 2018

      Exactly, the EU can’t see that they are fuelling the rise in nationalism, and see the antidote as being more integration and clamping down on those they don’t like.

      Very few in the EU understand this, and therefore they will never understand why Brexit happened.

      • David

         /  April 18, 2018

        Bizzare isnt it, usually politicians act in self interest but there seems to be a segment of them in the EU just cant bring themselves to address the issue, perhaps they are too worried about the reaction from the equally elitist journalists, opinion writers, twitter and their dinner party friends.
        Its like a Stockholm syndrome.

        • Missy

           /  April 18, 2018

          I think they are too far removed in general from what the population thinks, and are convinced by the Brussels bureaucrats that they are on the side of good, that they are just blind to the realities. And to be fair I understand that the Europeans have never ‘got’ the British so they would just see Brexit as a peculiar British thing.

        • Missy

           /  April 18, 2018

          David, you should watch this speech by a German MEP given to the EU Parliament.

          This guy understands Brexit better than most in the EU, he may be against it, but in subsequent interviews in the UK he has said he respects the British people’s right to vote to leave.

  3. Missy

     /  April 18, 2018

    Is it just me, or does it look like the PM has removed her shoes for this get together?

    • Gezza

       /  April 18, 2018

      That is correct. I expect she has charmed them all with that.

      • Missy

         /  April 18, 2018

        Despite being at the Embassy it seems a little unprofessional to me.

        I never walk around the office without my shoes on.

        • Blazer

           /  April 18, 2018

          when did you become a role model…for crying out…loud!

        • Gezza

           /  April 18, 2018

          It doesn’t appear to be an office. Looks like it might a staff room or kitchen or something.

          • robertguyton

             /  April 18, 2018

            Could it be that Jacinda, being pregnant, removed her shoes because her swelling ankles were feeling restricted by them? Who are we to criticise, especially over a detail so…inconsequential?

            • Gezza

               /  April 18, 2018

              Highly likely. If I were present, I would find this very nice that she could be so down to earth in probalbly much needed down time meeting embassy staff.

        • PartisanZ

           /  April 18, 2018

          Some people hardly ever go indoors WITH their shoes on … notably Maori …

          Maybe Jacinda is our first tikanga Prime Minister?

      • MaureenW

         /  April 18, 2018

        Onesie pyjama party coming up …

  4. sorethumb

     /  April 18, 2018

    Does this

    Contradict this?

    • sorethumb

       /  April 18, 2018

      I think he is right overall but wrong on detail.

      • Blazer

         /  April 18, 2018

        Wall St banksters have been compared to giant Vampire Squids with their blood funnel sucking the life out of…victims…quite..apt.

      • David

         /  April 18, 2018

        Fascinating guy, I watched the whole of his Channel 4 interview which was brilliant. Two podcasts he has done one with Joe Rogan and one with Dave Rubin are excellent, very entertaining and insightful.

      • Gezza

         /  April 18, 2018

        I think he long ago has made his best points, is suffering from overexposure, has developed a tendency to create ridiculous straw men in setup interviews just to make some point putting down a target group & has now become a bit tedious.

        • PartisanZ

           /  April 18, 2018

          Oh no … Not more Lobster Brain! Please …

          “a bit tedious” says Gezza, our Zen Master of understatement …

          Peterson’s misrepresentation of Lobster Brain puts even Darwin’s misunderstanding of Monkey Brain evolution to shame …

          I’m starting a new, highly accessible, extremely simple metaphor for human social development based on single-cell amoeba …

          • Gezza

             /  April 18, 2018

            I wasn’t actually thinking of the Lobster Brain I’m so over that one. I’ve seen a few other interviews where Peterson sounds after making numerous nonsense assertions that this is what feminists mean or whatever, just so he can then expound on their fundamental wrongness. The more of him you watch the more you realise he tells silly stories just to demolish them with long, tortured harangues that add up to the common sense most people employ anyway.

            Be fascinated to read your single cell amoeba wotsit.

            • Gezza

               /  April 18, 2018

              * sounds off

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 18, 2018

              Well Gezza, it’s a theory in development … You know, a work in progress … I’ll use the new SJW epistemology put up by sorethumb on another thread … But what could be more true about human social development than this –

              “a single-celled animal which catches food and moves about by extending finger-like projections of protoplasm. Amoebas are either free-living in damp environments or parasitic.”

              – and if it isn’t true it simply behoves me to make it so, as Peterson has done with Lobster Brain!

  5. PDB

     /  April 18, 2018

    Have to feel a little sorry for Ardern – Didn’t really want to be leader/PM, surrounded by incapable idiots within her own party, fighting fires for idiots within NZL First and the Greens, all whilst pregnant. Hopefully all the stories going around regarding someone she should be able to trust are untrue – time will tell though as at least one story appears to be right on the nose.

    • Gezza

       /  April 18, 2018

      Got a link or just gossiping?

    • MaureenW

       /  April 18, 2018

      Why put your hand up for the position then, if she didn’t really want to be leader? I don’t feel sorry for her – she should either do a decent job or move along

    • David

       /  April 18, 2018

      Have an Auckland based mate who crosses paths socially occasionally who has similar stories.

    • robertguyton

       /  April 18, 2018

      Malicious gossip, whispered innuendo; tools of the PDB’s trade.

      • PDB

         /  April 18, 2018

        I doubt Ardern will be pushing for laws around name suppression to be changed during her term Guyton…

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 18, 2018

          I agree with Maureen.

          I saw her on the news saying that she wasn’t planning to be leader of the party. I can’t remember when, but it was last year, I think.It was not that long before she became it, anyway.

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 18, 2018

    PC and racist Waitangi claptrap invading NZ science:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12034080

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  April 18, 2018

      When scientist Dr Bob Brockie protested recently that the Treaty has no place in scientific endeavour he was quickly mocked by an academic commentator in the Press in Christchurch and opposed in two official postings on the Royal Society website.

      The organisation that formerly promoted science now has a humanities slant. It criticises scientists for the common-sense claim that science is entitled to intellectual autonomy unfettered by culture and religion.

      First climate science was swallowed up by political activists and now they have designs on the rest.

      • Griff

         /  April 18, 2018

        Yess Alan
        lets play prove the climate science is political.
        Here are a few in denial with easily proven political links.
        Bjorn Lomborg M.A. degree in political science
        Roger pielk jnr M.A. in public policy (1992), and a Ph.D. in political science,
        Roy Spencer George C. Marshall Institute, a right-wing conservative think tank Heartland Institute,right wing political think tank
        Richard lizden Cato Institute Distinguished Senior Fellow right wing think tank.
        Will Happer George C. Marshall Institute right wing think tank.
        Patrick J. Michaels Cato Institute.right wing think tank

        All these people are openly political right wing and are central players in the denial of mainstream climate science.I could go on and list many more right wing lobbyists who deny climate science.
        In fact you would be hard pressed to find a single person who is a denier’s of main stream climate science who does not have strong links to Conservative American think tanks or the oil gas and coal industry.

        Your turn prove your statement.
        Mainstream climate science is political and give us some evidence.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  April 18, 2018

          You’ve proved my point beautifully, Griff. If climate science hadn’t been politicised no-one would care what personal affiliations scientists might have, let alone compile lists of their enemies with talking points about them.

          • Griff

             /  April 18, 2018

            In other words you cant produce any evidence that main stream climate science is political .
            It is the denial of Climate science like yours that is political.
            The real science its self is just our understanding of the world .

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 18, 2018

              I just did and I won’t descend to your level of personal attacks on your perceived enemies.

            • Griff

               /  April 18, 2018

              Dear Dear Alan
              I think I made my point.
              Denial of climate science is political.
              The mainstream science is not.
              After examining this question for almost a decade I know that those that deny the science never change their views.
              Because it becomes a faith for them. A belief without evidence to support it .

      • Gezza

         /  April 18, 2018

        He appears to be raising some good points but I haven’t seen the counter argument or exactly what partnering with Maori means and thus why he feels science is being compromised.

      • robertguyton

         /  April 18, 2018

        Alan;
        Mātauranga Māori can be defined as ‘the knowledge, comprehension, or understanding of everything visible and invisible existing in the universe’, and is often used synonymously with wisdom.

    • sorethumb

       /  April 18, 2018

      Science is superior to native traditional knowledge. And no, I am not sorry.
      http://www.barrelstrength.com/2018/03/28/science-is-superior-to-native-traditional-knowledge-and-no-i-am-not-sorry/

    • PartisanZ

       /  April 18, 2018

      ” … the common-sense claim that science is entitled to intellectual autonomy unfettered by culture and religion.”

      Let’s investigate this phrase ‘scientifically’ shall we?

      “Common-sense”? Whose common-sense are we talking about?

      “Entitled”? “Intellectual autonomy”?

      “Unfettered by culture and religion”?

      Is intellectual autonomy possible at all, much less “unfettered by culture and religion”?

      Science grew from culture and religion? Notably Islam and Western Christianity.

      “From the 18th century through late 20th century, the history of science, especially of the physical and biological sciences, was often presented in a progressive narrative in which true theories replaced false beliefs. Some more recent historical interpretations, such as those of Thomas Kuhn, tend to portray the history of science in terms of competing paradigms or conceptual systems in a wider matrix of intellectual, cultural, economic and political trends.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science

      “A major subject of concern and controversy in the philosophy of science has been the nature of theory change in science. Karl Popper argued that scientific knowledge is progressive and cumulative; Thomas Kuhn, that scientific knowledge moves through “paradigm shifts” and is not necessarily progressive; and Paul Feyerabend, that scientific knowledge is not cumulative or progressive and that there can be no demarcation in terms of method between science and any other form of investigation.”

      Gee will you look at that, there are people who actually think everything can’t be divided up and atomized like scientists do … Can’t be seen in isolation … I guess that’s why we have Medical Ethics?

      And Te Tiriti o Waitangi has a place in ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in Aotearoa New Zealand …

  7. lurcher1948

     /  April 18, 2018

    Wow foreign hackers have targeted NZ the threat is from a site called FACEBOOK,the security services thought we were been hacked by a country called Russia whom our masters the USA dont like but this site called FACEBOOK has everything that you have done in your life,RUSSIA nice vodka,USA endless wars and FACEBOOK

    • Gezza

       /  April 18, 2018

      My Nokia smartphone notified me of a 2nd system update to – security patch and various other improvements. So I gritted my teeth and instructed it to install them, becos security patch. So .. after it installed & rebooted the cellcam wouldn’t work. Said it didn’t have required permissions & to check my permissions. Did that. All looked ok to me. Rebooted. Still needed permissions. Forget how I got there in the end but eventually swearing at it produced a question did I want to authorise my camera to access my location. Well, no, I didn’t, but the correct answer for the camera to work was YES.

      Why does Google/Android insist on my camera knowing my location before it will operate?

      • Gezza

         /  April 18, 2018

        🙄 * update toDAY

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 18, 2018

          I am online still trying to get my new phone set up and discovering that its battery has a life of less than an hour and the phone number doesn’t exist, says Vodafone.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  April 18, 2018

            Correction, I am online to print the receipt because I have misplaced the paper one and then I can take the &%$#*&^ thing back.

            • Gezza

               /  April 18, 2018

              Is it a smartphone?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 19, 2018

              No, it’s a stupidphone 😀

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 19, 2018

              It seems that it is, a very basic one. As all I would use it for is ringing the taxi and occasionally sending a text, I would have been quite happy with a clone of my little Nokia, now obsolete. But Vodafone’s website is not well designed and sends the would-be user around in maddening circles – rather like Microsoft !

            • Gezza

               /  April 19, 2018

              Oh well, hope you get it sorted at the shop

            • Gezza

               /  April 19, 2018

              Have you looked at Trademe here & do you still have your sim card?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 19, 2018

              No to TM, yes to sim.

              It’s one of the most annoying websites I know !

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 19, 2018

              Thank you !

              Nokia’s prices have riz quite a bit !!!

  8. sorethumb

     /  April 18, 2018


    Ngai tahu should tell Otago not to insult their intelligence

  9. sorethumb

     /  April 18, 2018

    • PartisanZ

       /  April 18, 2018

      Quite funny … even to an SJW!

      Oh you poor Righties … to feel so threatened all the time …

  10. sorethumb

     /  April 18, 2018

    For the last 100 years, Western colonialism has had a bad name. It is high time to question this orthodoxy. Western colonialism was, as a general rule, both objectively beneficial and subjectively legitimate in most of the places where it was found, using realistic measures of those concepts. The countries that embraced their colonial inheritance, by and large, did better than those that spurned it. Anti-colonial ideology imposed grave harms on subject peoples and continues to thwart sustained development and a fruitful encounter with modernity in many places. Colonialism can be recovered by weak and fragile states today in three ways: by reclaiming colonial modes of governance; by recolonising some areas; and by creating new Western colonies from scratch.
    http://www.web.pdx.edu/~gilleyb/2_The%20case%20for%20colonialism_at2Oct2017.pdf

    • PartisanZ

       /  April 18, 2018

      The phrase “subjectively legitimate” absolutely does not belong in your brief monotribe … thingey … whatever it is … I don’t know what to call it?

      You are claiming the genocide of 100 million indigenous North and South Americans by the Spanish, English, French, Portugese, United States and others was “subjectively legitimate” …

      Care to elaborate on that? How so?

      Their needless deaths were “a fruitful encounter with modernity” maybe?

      Or perhaps you believe they were killed for their own good?