OffShaw shrilling overstates ‘great Green change’

In his latest newsletter James Shaw seems very happy about his party’s successes to date in Government, but he is overstating achievements a bit.

You got the Greens into Government and now you’re seeing the results.

This is what great green change looks like: No new drilling for fossil fuels in the oceans of Aotearoa!

I think that is inaccurate. There has been a ban on new offshore permits, but existing permits can still be used to drill new wells.

This is gigantic! Just the push back from oil companies alone proves how huge this is.

It may be big compared to green achievements in the past, but there is a lot of debate about what effect it will have in practice.

It will limit future exports of oil and gas, and local use of gas could be affected, but until practical large scale alternatives are found to fossil fuels for vehicles (including trains and planes) in particular New Zealand will have to keep importing oil.

And we could not have done it without you.

This campaign started decades ago and has taken the hard work of people, like you, who’ve participated in many different ways to support the stopping of fossil fuel extraction from our oceans.

For years we’ve shone a spotlight on the perils of the continued use of fossil fuels and its threat to our very existence. We know that the world cannot burn the 80% of the reserves we already know about if we are to have any hope of stopping catastrophic climate change. We know that our wellbeing and the wellbeing of our planet demand that we move to cleaner, lower emission ways of doing business and of living our lives.

The permit ban is a battle win, but the fossil fuel and climate change wars are far from over.

We’ve drawn a line in the sand. So now, not only are we taking climate action, but also our beaches, our whales and our Māui dolphins are much safer because of this decision.

I think that ‘much safer’ substantially also overstates the changes gained.

Shaw goes on the Ra Ra! the troops, with the inevitable pleas for donations, but if he oversells successes too often Green supporters may become jaded.

For the first time ever, we’re making the environment a major priority in transport. From now on, transport spending must focus on reducing climate pollution as well as other negative impacts on public health such as water quality.

And finally, no more taxpayer subsidies of large scale irrigation!

Cleaning up our rivers just got real! Thanks to our confidence and supply agreement, the Government is winding down taxpayer subsidies for large scale irrigation schemes that lead to over-intensive land-use.

Another massive win for the Greens and for you!

A lot of work was already being done on cleaning up waterways. A recent report showed that river quality has been improving over the last few years. More Green pressure will help, but a lot is happening regardless.

Perhaps loyal Green supporters will buy Shaw’s exaggerations, but most voters are more likely to be swayed to open their wallets by the Briscoe’s lady – who has toned down a lot lately.

In decades we may be able to look back on great Green change, but at this early stage it sounds like too much offShaw shrilling.

41 Comments

  1. Blazer

     /  April 27, 2018

    ‘Green supporters may become jaded’….I think you mean…pounamu..ed!

    • Gezza

       /  April 27, 2018

      I haved a feeling pounamued might mean bashed over the head with a very prized, precious & expensive mere or other object made of greenstone. Mite be best to stick with jaded, just in case…

  2. artcroft

     /  April 27, 2018

    The Greens: working each day to make NZ colder, sicker and hungrier.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 27, 2018

      You forgot poorer when they have to pay 75c more per litre for petrol !!!

  3. Shaw is not sounding so confident on RNZ right now promoting a rebate for electric vehicles – paid for by other car buyers.

    • Gezza

       /  April 27, 2018

      He’ll have to go. 😡

      Who else have they got ? 😳

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 27, 2018

        I am sure that people won’t mind subsidising other people’s cars.

        Why not go the whole hog and add the cost of an electric car to the price of every new one ?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 27, 2018

          Joke, PDT, it wasn’t meant seriously. For goodness sake, who’d think otherwise ?

          I am sure that the people whose petrol will cost 75c a litre more will mind this very much. That will make it nearly $3 a litre. If the Greens believe that this will be anything other than a vote-killer, they are insane !

    • sarineal

       /  April 29, 2018

      NZ could turn into the Cuba of the pacific. They talk about a tax on imported vehicles but last I noticed the domestic car industry died in the 1990’s so that means a tax on all petrol and diesel vehicles. There is no alternative for consumers.

      EV’s are in short supply and expensive and any subsidy (if it doesn’t vanish into the consolidated fund) won’t make them cheap enough for your average person and the extra tax on newer vehicles will make them cost prohibitive too. There are also a ton of other issues still to be fixed too, like the range and power needed from the grid to charge them.

      Like Cuba, what will happen is the average person will need to resort to either keeping an old gas guzzler on the road and/or the gas guzzler private used car market keeping the things on the road longer. That will be fun, I hear the average car is about 20 years old already and the fleet will continue to age further. And, no, no-one will be hopping on their bikes or walking en masse many kilometres away in the middle of winter in a southerly storm.

      They should be putting the groundwork into place with stages that are manageable before declaring the ultimate goal.

      I hope they’ve also thought of food security in all of this, it’s one thing to also ban subsidies of irrigation but fruit and veges require an awful lot of water and it does bring in rather a large amount of money. Like it pays for the health care budget. But I suppose the economy takes a back seat to rhetoric and carefully considered changes at a pace that can be coped with.

  4. Grimm

     /  April 27, 2018

    “You got the Greens into Government and now you’re seeing the results”

    Didn’t take him long to get above his station did it? That aside, the result of Greens in Government all over the world are massively increased power prices. With no reduction in emissions.

    • Gezza

       /  April 27, 2018

      🤔 Evidence ? 😳

        • High Flying Duck

           /  April 27, 2018

          Careful Admiral – Griff will pop in at any time to yell at you, tell you you are a moron and a denier and post his little PV uptake graph as definitive proof.

          • admiralvonspee

             /  April 27, 2018

            Any correlation between his absence and local cloud cover over his PV house?

            No power…no interwebz 😉

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              ROFL
              Power is not the problem.
              Forget the phone charger…type c usb.
              Dont have one of them at the beach and I am to tight to spend twenty bucks for a new one .

              As too Germany
              After Fukushima they decided to close all nuclear plants as they view the risk to great . Shutting down nuclear has the support of 75 % of voters so It is not just backed by the greens .
              Hence even though green energy is growing the reduction of CO2 has not come about because they are using coal to make up for the loss of nuclear power.

              Volkswagon and other German car makers screwed the pooch with their diesels emissions cheating.
              As a result germany has seen a shift to petrol cars that creates more CO2 per mile than diesels do.

              Electric cars sales are doubling ever year in Germany. The sort of growth that will make transport renewable in just a few years .

              All around the world electric cars are under the same growth curve.

              Is it not funny that reality and rwnj bullshite don’t coincide.

              .

            • Grimm

               /  April 27, 2018

              One day you should go to Germany Griff and visit some of their coal mines. Make a special trip to the Garzweiler mine. The scale of it will make you weep. Germany are the biggest users of lignite coal (the dirty kind) in Europe, maybe the world. That’s because they dumped Nuclear. They have plenty of new coal power stations being built (plus around 1500 world wide) to replace nuclear and as backups for wind.

              Electric cars are currently a fraud perpetrated on the poor. Billions have been spent on electric car subsidies. They may remove emissions from cities, but only to put them somewhere else. No electric car sells in volume without taxpayer subsidy, and even then they are bought by rich people. No country in the world has an electricity grid capable of dealing with even half of their cars being electric. You might also be surprised at the scale of mining that will be required to supply the raw ingredients for electric cars. If you are using a device that requires USB-C, then you are contributing to the operation of at least four large scale open cast mines somewhere in the world. Did I mention the environmental problems we face getting rid of the batteries?

              All green policies come with unintended consequences that are worse than the original “problem”.

            • Grimm

               /  April 27, 2018

              These are some of the things that need to be mined in order for you to use your cell phone to call people morons and rwnj’s on here…

              Magniesium
              Neodymium
              Tungsten
              Zinc
              Copper
              Palladium
              Platinum
              copper
              gold
              phosphorus
              antimony
              lithium
              oil

              Worth reflecting on how much hypocrisy has to converge in one place for you to make one comment, isn’t it?

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              ROFL
              I just pointed out why Germany has had a hiccup in the move towards renewable energy. it is nothing like some like to pretend it is because of retiring nuclear plants that they deem to risky .

              As to the rest of your vacant ranting.
              What a load of unsupportable waffle.
              I don’t have a problem with mining thats totally in your head .
              In case you did not know I am not and never have been a green supporter. I was a paid up ACT member since their inception.
              After having seen the sort of nonsense right wing nut jobs get so easily sucked in by I no longer identify as right wing.

              Electric cars are the future .
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_banning_fossil_fuel_vehicles
              They are cleaner than internal combustion engines even if the grid is coal powered.
              https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953
              In 1900 you had to order petrol in quart tins and pick it up from a pharmacy.
              That did not stop petrol cars taking over from horses in a few short years .
              We built out the infrastructure needed to support internal combustion engine based transport we will do the same as we switch to electric based transport.
              The world is rapidly changing
              Luddites like you are clinging to the past .

            • Grimm

               /  April 27, 2018

              “I was a paid up ACT member since their inception”

              You didn’t have to push the bs meter quite that far.

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              Q.E.D.

            • As usual Griff posts up his picture but doesn’t tell the full story. bullshit and reality colliding again. There is a massive subsidy of 4000 euro a car in Germany, that started at the beginning of 2016. As one the German papers noted at the time,
              “The German government is prepared to spend up to a billion euros ($1.12 billion) during the next two years to boost the sales of electric cars and hybrids, sources told the DPA news agency ahead of the summit. Direct subsidies to car buyers would account for 600 million euros, and another 300 million would be invested in extending the network of fast-recharging stations. The remaining 100 million would go to other EV-related subsidies. Transport Minister Dobrint had also proposed canceling the license tax on electrical cars for a period of 10 years. In addition, 20 percent of vehicles purchased by the federal government would have to be electric-powered. As of January, there were 45 million cars in Germany, with only 25,500 pure electric vehicles and 130,000 hybrids. The government, however, aims to put one million electric cars on the road by 2020.”
              So even by 2020, they will be just over 2% of the car fleet. And to be consistent, he should talk about electric car in Norway. From Reuters:

              “Norway’s electric car policies are hard to imitate. Norway can be generous because high revenues from oil and gas production have helped it amass the world’s biggest sovereign wealth fund, worth $1 trillion. Illustrating the supportive benefits, a Volkswagen e-Golf electric car sells for 262,000 crowns ($32,300) in Norway, just fractionally above the import price of 260,000, according to the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association. But a comparable gasoline-powered Golf, which costs just 180,000 crowns to import, ends up selling for 298,000 crowns after charges including value added tax, carbon tax, and another tax based on the weight of the vehicle. Even in Norway, the benefits strain finances. Norway’s 1.3 trillion Norwegian crown budget projects a loss of tax revenues of 3 billion crowns a year because of electric cars.”

              So electric cars there are costing them about $800M a year.

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              Yess chrism56
              How much is climate change costing ?
              How much is it going to cost in the future?

              Oil and coal is subsidized by trillions of dollars.

              The world is moving away from fossil fuels .
              This is just a fact
              No amount of dreaming by you or anyone else on here is going to change that fact.
              Luddite……

            • chrism56

               /  April 27, 2018

              No Griff your comments are like the Panmure Bridge – your subsidies on fossil fuels are almost exclusively in third world dictatorships. There are basically none in OECD countries. And externalities aren’t subsidies. Contast that with the subsidies on electric cars In Norway I note, “Norway exempts new electric cars from almost all taxes and grants perks that can be worth thousands of dollars a year in terms of free or subsidized parking, re-charging and use of toll roads, ferries and tunnels. ” Even in NZ, there is a significant subsidy, possibly $2-3k a year.
              And why don’t you talk about electric car sales in Denmark where they removed the subsidies.
              The world isn’t moving away from fossil fuels. O&G consumption is increasing and coal is even going back up in its biggest market.
              https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/28/reuters-america-chinas-2018-coal-consumption-rose-after-three-year-decline-clean-energy-portion-up.html

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              Wakey wakey chsim
              CLIMATE CHANGE.
              The world is going to move away from fossil fuels.

              from Your link.

              China’s 2018 coal consumption rose after three-year decline, clean energy portion up

              * Coal consumption rises first time after 3-yr fall

              * Coal portion of total energy mix down, clean energy up

              * China still on track to meet de-carbonisation target -expert

              BEIJING, Feb 28 (Reuters) – China’s coal consumption last year picked up for the first time since 2013, the National Bureau of Statistics said on Wednesday, despite Beijing’s push to promote less-polluting energy sources.

              The world’s biggest coal consumer used 0.4 percent more coal in absolute terms in 2017 compared to a year ago, the bureau said in its annual National Social and Economic Development communique, without giving the value of total coal consumption.

              However, as a portion of total energy consumption, coal usage fell 1.6 percentage points to 60.4 percent last year, while clean energy, including natural gas and renewables, rose 1.3 percentage points to 20.8 percent from 2016, the communique showed.

              blockquote>

              I’ve shown you exponential curves for renewables many times .
              YET
              You keep thinking in straight lines… That’s how both the IEA and EIA fuckup their projections and thats why you a wrong about the future .

              OECD
              https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/energy/oecd-companion-to-the-inventory-of-support-measures-for-fossil-fuels-2015_9789264239616-en#page1
              200 billion in 2015 among OECD members.
              That’s not counting the cost of pollution and the stupid wars over oil .

            • Griff

               /  April 27, 2018

              Even in NZ, there is a significant subsidy, possibly $2-3k a year.

              More Rubbish
              Electric cars are Road user charges exempt.
              Worth about $600NZ a year.
              https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/

            • chrism56

               /  April 27, 2018

              As usual Griff, you are spouting your usual rubbish. The actual consumption of fossil fuels (and carbon dioxide levels resulting from it) are increasing in absolute terms. That is what is supposed to be causing the climate change, isn’t it?
              With regard to the OECD document you linked to, yet again you didn’t even bother to read it in your usual confirmation bias. You can use Google but can’t read. It talks of externalities and the subsidies in third world energy producers being the subsidisers , confirming what I wrote
              Electric cars do not pay the about 76c per litre that petrol drivers pay in tax (or RUCs for diesels), they get reduced registration, they are allowed to charge and park in places for free. They can also use bus lanes can’t they?

            • Griff

               /  April 28, 2018

              Well chism
              I did link to the MOT and the fact electric cars don’t pay road users charges .
              Worth 600 a year according to the MOT.
              well short of your 2 to 3 thousand .

              The rest of your assertions are just empty blather like I have come to expect from you.
              Like

              It talks of externalities and the subsidies in third world energy producers being the subsidisers

              When in the real world not the one inside your head
              DOI:http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/9789264239616-en

              This publication is concerned with all policies that directly support the production or consumption of fossil fuels in OECD countries and in a selection of partner economies.

              Hand waving without support seems to be your modus operandi.
              Are you in training to be a windmill?

              “Pigeon chess” or “like playing chess with a pigeon”[note 1] is a figure of speech originating from a comment made in March 2005 on Amazon by Scott D. Weitzenhoffer[2] regarding Eugenie Scott’s book Evolution vs. Creationism: An introduction:
              “”Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

              As such “debating techniques” are not limited to creationists, the phrase has entered the general Internet lexicon,[3] together with the source quotation, which is sometimes cited as an anonymous “Internet law”. The reference to creationists is usually replaced with whatever group the user is arguing with.

              Thats you buddy .

            • chrism56

               /  April 28, 2018

              Read pages 20-22 of the OECD report, Griff, and think (a novel experience for you, I realise) about what it actually means. Then look at what the report define as price gaps – like the 3.6 trillion cost assigned to air pollution that is called a subsidy. Or not charging fishing boats road user charges on their fuel is a subsidy, or giving cheaper power to pensioners as a fossil fuel subsidy.
              That is why the report suits you – it is full of shit.

            • Griff

               /  April 28, 2018

              ROFLMAO
              yess chism
              More futile handwaving
              The OECD report is full of shite because some anonymous knob on the internet says so
              So is Siemens and GE on smart grids, Genesis Energy on its asset use, Australian Energy Market Operator in the Tesla batteries,
              yada yada yada
              The pattern
              Chrism56 discounts anything that doesn’t fit what he wants by hand waving.
              Pigeon chess .

            • chrism56

               /  April 28, 2018

              So says a man who has continually proved he is just an an embittered pensioner.

      • Grimm

         /  April 27, 2018

        Germany, Denmark, California, South Australia to name a few. The science is settled on this one Gezza. Are you are Denier?

        • admiralvonspee

           /  April 27, 2018

          Just look across the ditch or a glimpse into the future…

          We gave him a document to say that between February and October last year our electricity went up $110 million as an industry sector. That’s independent supermarkets. Our members were ­coming off old contracts and going on to new contracts.

          “We needed to show him these examples. Because margins are so slim in supermarkets we’ve got nowhere to go. That could cost us 2500 jobs. … The only lever in variable costs we have to pull is in employment.”

          Len Morabito, general manager of four SUPA IGAs and a freestanding liquor store, said he was $215,000 worse off than at this time last year because of electricity price increases. He said this was a 31 per cent rise from the 2016-17 financial year.

          Mr Morabito said the four ­supermarkets were scatted across regional Victoria in Leongatha, Korumburra, Shepparton and Bendigo.

          The business runs a warehouse and its headquarters out of Moorabbin, in southeast Melbourne, and employs more than 500 people.

          “I can’t believe the lack of uproar,” he said. “It’s just ridiculous … I don’t think we’ve seen it come through in grocery prices, but sooner or later it’s going to hit.”

          https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/sparks-fly-over-energy-guarantee-as-power-costs-soar/news-story/9b9636a7bf02958add0723188165e4d0

        • Gezza

           /  April 27, 2018

          No. I’m an atheist.

          • Gezza

             /  April 27, 2018

            More or less…

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 27, 2018

              Many ‘EVs’ only go 100km on a charge. That means that someone could not go from Hamilton to Auckland, or even Huntly to Auckland, without a recharge. In reality, it’s not even a 100km round trip to anywhere, because it wouldn’t allow for any travelling around. What happens when someone’s charge runs out ?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 27, 2018

              runs out somewhere where there’s nowhere to recharge…

  5. Kitty Catkin

     /  April 27, 2018

    When people say that ‘the government’ is paying subsidies for this and that, they tend to forget to mention that it’s the people who are doing this via tax.

    • Gerrit

       /  April 27, 2018

      Yep, or foregoing income for roading upgrades by not charging the $600 RUC that should be apportioned to electric vehicles.

      “Extending the Road User Charges (RUC) exemption on light vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicles fleet

      This will save the average electric vehicle driver approximately $600 per vehicle each year.”

      https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/

  1. OffShaw shrilling overstates ‘great Green change’ — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition