Mental health crisis talk, but no urgency walk

There have been claims that our health system is in crisis. I guess it depends on what constitutes a crisis.

Speaking out of one side of his mouth Minister of Health David Clark says that parts of the health system are in crisis due to chronic ‘underfunding’, but out of the other side of his mouth he praises the state of Health.

And even though he sees a crisis in Mental Health he is happy to wait for a committee to investigate before taking action. He has justifiably been criticised for this contradiction.

On Q&A yesterday:

Corin Dann: The other criticism is that you’re manufacturing a crisis. Is there a crisis in health, for a start?

David Clark: There are some areas where there is a crisis. I think mental health – people will acknowledge is at a crisis level. But the reason our health system is holding together so well, and it is, is because of the dedicated staff. We have doctors and nurses and allied health workers who have turned up every day in an underfunded environment for years, and they deliver an amazing service, and New Zealanders know that.

There is a crisis, but the health system is holding up well?

Later the interview addresses mental health.

Corin Dann: We’re going to talk mental health now. Talking again to people in the health sector this week, one of the things that came up with mental health was actually an ED nurse, who said they are just seeing a massive increase in the number of presentations at emergency departments from people suffering from mental illness. What are you going to do about that?

David Clark: We know that we have an aging demographic, which includes dementia, and we have a growing population. As more people get weeded out for care in primary care, we have more acute demand at the emergency level. We’re going to need new approaches, new ideas to tackling these issues. And we’re going to need increased capacity in some areas.

No indication of what Clark intends to do, just “we’re going to need increased capacity in some areas”.

Corin Dann: Okay, I know you’ve got an inquiry looking at this issue and presumably that’s going to come up with some big, challenging recommendations for you on mental health, and you’ll deal with that. How quickly can you implement those?

David Clark: Yeah. I’m imaging we won’t be able to implement them all at once. We’ll take it budget by budget, step by step. But the purpose of making that inquiry independent is that it will bring forward hard recommendations. It will bring forward challenging recommendations. And we as a government will then have to wrestle with them. But I don’t want to get some watered-down version as minister. My job is to manage the prioritisation and the politics, and I’ll do that. 

Corin Dann: Sure. Big picture here, because I know you’ve got an inquiry, what is your feeling about the balance in terms of our mental health? Are we keeping people in the community too much? Are we not putting people in care enough? Where is the balance?

David Clark: My gut feeling is we’ve devolved care to the community without putting resource after it. And sometimes it’s been used as a cost-cutting measure. We need to change community attitudes. We need to change the way we’re delivering primary services to some extent. And we need to just make sure that mental health is afforded the priority that it should have. It shouldn’t be possible to cut corners for our most vulnerable.

Corin Dann: You’ve got other promises in mental health, in particular in schools and those sorts of things. Are you going to be able to deliver on those, having nurses or mental health care workers in those sorts of facilities?

David Clark: There are some things that have strong evidence behind them. Nurses in schools is one of those things. We will continue to roll out that programme. The cheaper doctor visits is another way of ensuring that those services are more accessible to people. So we will do some things in the interim. I’m not going to announce the budget detail today, Corin.

Labour rushed in an expensive tertiary fees-free policy, without claiming there was a crisis in education.

The did claim there was a mental health crisis in their Taking action in our first 100 days:

  • Set up a Ministerial Inquiry in order to fix our mental health crisis

One could think that a crisis would be treated a bit more urgently than deferring to a committee.

Labour’s post-100 day brag sheet includes this, but it is well down the list of priorities – 100 days. Here’s what we’ve done.

We’ve announced a ministerial inquiry into our mental health system. It’s time to do better by New Zealanders.

But this isn’t the time to do it apparently.

More details: Inquiry to improve mental health services

The Government has taken a major step towards improving mental health and addiction services with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announcing details of a ministerial inquiry.

The Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction will be chaired by former Health and Disability Commissioner, Professor Ron Paterson, and will report back to the Government by the end of October.

Then any spending to address the so-called crisis will have to wait until the budget in May 2019, unless things get deferred further.

“Nothing is off the table. We all know we have a problem with mental health in this country and our suicide rate is shameful. It is well past time for us to do something about it.”

That was in January. Perhaps something will be done about it in this year’s budget, but even then one could suggest ‘it is well past time for us to do something about it’.

In the meantime: Funding uncertainty for Dunedin rehab service

A Dunedin rehab centre with a waiting list of 142 people, most addicted to methamphetamine, will run out of money in two months.

Addiction treatment services say the public funding model they operate under is creating stress, fostering competition between providers and, worst of all, detracting from the work of rehabilitating addicts.

With only 62 days left in the financial year Ms Aitken still had not been able to secure funding – which comes from a mix of government departments – to continue to run past July.

Perhaps they could go and talk to the mental health crisis working group. Drug addiction is a symptom of mental health problems.

Claims of crisis are not new. from may 2018:  New Zealand’s mental health system is in crisis

The Auditor-General’s new report on discharge planning for mental health patients shows more than ever that the system is in crisis.

The report by Greg Schollum, Deputy Controller and Auditor-General, diagnoses several acute ailments in the system – a lack of planning and liaison between DHBs and community services, limited bed numbers available in inpatient units, and rushed discharges into the community because DHBs cannot cope with growing demand.

“This report provides some alarming insights into the slow decay of the mental health system under this Government, particularly in terms of supporting severely vulnerable patients to re-enter their communities after time in DHB inpatient units,” says Erin Polaczuk, PSA national secretary.

“It’s clear that empty rhetoric and the hollow promises of prioritisation by this Government aren’t enough,” says Ms Polaczuk.

See also (Stuff, 3 February 2018): A growing emergency: Why are cops looking after mental health patients in crisis?

If things go according to current plans another report will be released in October. Perhaps that will call it a crisis too.

Then what?


David Clark has been asked (on RNZ) about the Moana House funding crisis and says it is something that needs to be worked out over time. And pushed on whether urgent funding would be provided he said he won’t be announcing the budget in advance and again said solutions would be forthcoming “over time”.

No apparent urgency given the claims of a crisis.

It is a very difficult situation for Clark (as the portfolio is for any Minister of Health).  But if the Government talks the crisis talk surely they should walk the urgency walk.

 

 

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69 Comments

  1. Traveller

     /  April 30, 2018

    Over time? Mental Health problems and underfunding was screeched about by Labour as an acute problem, yet now it needs time!

    On so many fronts this government are looking like mere talkers, committee formers not walkers.

    Steven Joyce’s hole of 11 billion looking like a small tear

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  April 30, 2018

      could always do a Nat…and just borrow 70 billion…for your kids to repay.Joyce dug a hole…and had the good sense…to..jump in ..it.

      Reply
      • Grimm

         /  April 30, 2018

        Make your mind up. National either spent too much, or not enough. Which is it?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  April 30, 2018

          National always spends too much…on the wrong things.

          Reply
          • Grimm

             /  April 30, 2018

            Like welfare payments and earthquake rebuilds?

            Reply
            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              definitely over spend on…Corporate welfare,made a clusterfuck of the Christchurch rebuild as we now…know.

      • Trevors_Elbow

         /  April 30, 2018

        STILL you bleat on on this topic. Front up with what services should have been cut so borrowing was necessary between 2009 and 2015. Front up or F off.

        You’re a Labour shill with a limited grasp…

        Reply
  2. admiralvonspee

     /  April 30, 2018

    Soaring mental health issues are a fair reflection of our society where traditional family and moral structures have been tossed aside for a culture emboldened by the the amount casual relationships one has.

    The result is clear to see – single parent homes, dysfunctional environments and shallow relationships.

    One is not in the least surprised to see such stats exponentially increasing as people abandon the values which once held communities and societies together.

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 30, 2018

      I find your analysis simplistic …

      During the 1950s & 60s there was a ‘mental health crisis’ of suppressed, repressed and oppressed mothers having so-called ‘nervous breakdowns’ …

      Many had done men’s work during WW2 but were now enduring servitude, virtual confinement and violence under the new, post-war conservatism …

      That and much else besides was never a recipe for holding communities and societies together … except maybe very temporarily and as portrayed in the media of the day … newsreel footage and early television …

      Traditional family and moral structures lacked the magic ingredient ‘ethics’ …

      Reply
      • “I find your analysis simplistic …”

        My point was a simple one – humans are incredibly social by nature and the structure/bonds between one’s nuclear/extended family are what shape our worldview and interaction with society at large. When we shun or are devoid of that environment for a more casual,self-serving one, it is no surprise to me that individuals find the disconnect/isolation/dysfunction too much to bear.

        Simplistic yes, inaccurate no.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  April 30, 2018

          who says mum,dad .2 kids and a mortgage is traditional or natural or the best structure?

          Reply
          • admiralvonspee

             /  April 30, 2018

            Who knows if it is the “best” structure, old sock – but it’s a damn site better than where our “modern” society is….heading.

            In 1961, 95 per cent of children were born to married couples; by 2015 the proportion had fallen to 53 per cent. For Maori, 72 per cent of births were to married parents in 1968; by 2015 the proportion had fallen to just 21 per cent.

            Single-parent families make up 28 per cent of all families with dependent children. Yet 51 per cent of children in poverty live in single-parent families. And single parents have the lowest home-ownership rates and the highest debt ratios.

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503459&objectid=11989864

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              Shit, why didn’t I think of that … blame the society’s “morality” and blame the one parent, single income families …

              No blame befalls the corporate-capitalist-political elite who created a society (by greed, manipulation and stealth) that made it next-to-impossible for most families to survive on a single income …?

            • High Flying Duck

               /  April 30, 2018

              Was it that Parti? Or was it the insinuation of the state into our lives, removing personal responsibility and creating a no-blame no consequence society?

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              “No blame befalls the corporate-capitalist-political elite who created a society (by greed, manipulation and stealth) that made it next-to-impossible for most families to survive on a single income …?”

              Ah yes, the Tinder-For-All government initiative. How could I forget…

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              you forget that in 1961..Bruce the breadwinner,finished work,went to the pub and filled up till 6.00p.m,then went home to a hot meal(or else ,a hiding for the cook)..listened to the wireless for an hour and then went to bed,for a donald duck.if he was lucky.Got up and did the same thing…next..day.Times have changed….even Ajax is no…longer!

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              you forget that in 2600BC…Unk the farmer, planted his crops, went fishing, then came home to his family…watched the campfire, then crashed on the cavefloor…if he was lucky. Got up did the same thing…times have changed…traditional families are no longer…

              https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/nov/18/archaeology-germany-dna-nuclear-family

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              Of course HFD … I missed it … Rogernomics, Ruthanasia and globalization were never “the insinuation of the state into our lives” …

              Yet your “removing personal responsibility and creating a no-blame no consequence society” has gone hand-in-hand with them …

              They are halves of the same agenda.

              But you Righties remain totally blind to how you’ve been duped …

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              admiralvonspee, Unk’s in my DNA and I happen to know he didn’t live in a cave … He had a thatched hut …

              So, “a shift in social organisation from communal living to societies with large social differences between people” was a good thing?

              Yet a modern-day shift in social organisation somewhat favoring greater (but by no means absolute) ‘individuality’ is not a good thing?

              I think you might have some kind of idealized view of “traditional families”.

              Salem had them …

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              “I think you might have some kind of idealized view of “traditional families”.

              The point point seems to have flown straight over the top your head while you’ve predictably conflated causality with correlation.

              Having a nuclear family and being free of mental health issues are not mutually exclusive. It’s the relationships between people that matter. My point was that our modern society is moving more and more away from developing those deep relationships, evidenced by increasing solo-parent families, casual flings and declining participation within community social groups (…church anyone?).

              It takes a village to raise….a child.

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              Garbage in … garbage out …

              All solo-parent families, you seem to be saying, do not have “those deep relationships” … What utter *crap* … Relationships within many solo-parent families may in fact be better than those within many two-parent families …

              Declining participation in Church – with its doctrines inimical to life – you seem to be saying – corresponds to “declining participation within community social groups” …

              Whereas, in reality, there’s a distinct possibility that a decline in volunteerism – if there is one – is being compensated for by the ‘professionalisation’ or commodification of formerly volunteer jobs inside the Charitocracy …?

              Some social groups, possibly non-religious ones, may be prospering? Secular Church anyone?

              And, if it takes a village to raise a child … why are you arguing so strongly in favour of the isolated “nuclear family”?

              The word “conflate” is becoming synonymous with “zero-substance argument” …

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              All solo-parent families, you seem to be saying, do not have “those deep relationships

              I didn’t say all. I said it’s not mutually exclusive. I said relationships matter and by definition, a solo parent family would suggest a relationship has broken down. Again not mutually exclusive.

              Declining participation in Church – with its doctrines inimical to life – you seem to be saying – corresponds to “declining participation within community social groups”

              It’s an example of declining community engagement. Another is local community sport (https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/334813/sports-clubs-tackle-decline-in-player-numbers).

              Whereas, in reality, there’s a distinct possibility that a decline in volunteerism – if there is one – is being compensated for by the ‘professionalisation’ or commodification of formerly volunteer jobs inside the Charitocracy …?

              Sounds like another thinly veiled attack on neo-liberalism. Hey ho.

              Some social groups, possibly non-religious ones, may be prospering? Secular Church anyone?

              What a contradiction in terms.

              And, if it takes a village to raise a child … why are you arguing so strongly in favour of the isolated “nuclear family”?

              Don’t be dense, old sock. I said nuclear/extended family. I said nothing about isolated. It’s simply the core of a wider social structure – you know – that sociological thing that humans have been doing for a few thousand years.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  April 30, 2018

              It’s a mistake to assume that because parents aren’t married, they are not together.

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              admiralvonspee, what I’m really saying is you decry the social by-products of austere-welfare-neoliberalism while I have little doubt you defend the economic paradigm that bought* them about …

              “Sounds like another thinly veiled attack on neo-liberalism. Hey ho” is no way to answer my question. Indeed, it seems like avoidance …

              Perhaps humans are only social to the extent money allows?

              And now we’ve been conditioned for 30+ years that only money allows us to be human …?

              * bought is not a spelling error

            • what I’m really saying is you decry the social by-products of austere-welfare-neoliberalism while I have little doubt you defend the economic paradigm that bought* them about …

              Such black and white thinking isn’t healthy Parts. I’m simply decrying the lack of logical thought. Human nature is deeply flawed in that respect.

              “Sounds like another thinly veiled attack on neo-liberalism. Hey ho” is no way to answer my question. Indeed, it seems like avoidance …

              It was a weak rhetorical question. That’s why you got that answer.

              Perhaps humans are only social to the extent money allows?

              And now we’ve been conditioned for 30+ years that only money allows us to be human …?

              The only conditioning has been on those who believe they are victims and who continue to pedal that narrative at all costs.

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              It’s a mistake to assume that because parents aren’t married, they are not together.

              You’re quite correct Kitty. I didn’t suggest marriage was mandatory but good point nonetheless.

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              dear oh dear ,Admiral my old sausage…surely you understand and probably embrace the ‘personal responsibility,everyman for himself…doctrine imposed since the 80’s…empathy,community=communism/socialism….how can you divide and rule without an obedient ,conforming workforce?Rugby ,racing and beer!..2 out of 3…ain’t ..bad.

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              surely you understand and probably embrace the ‘personal responsibility,everyman for himself…doctrine imposed since the 80’s…empathy,community=communism/socialism….how can you divide and rule without an obedient ,conforming workforce?

              You raise a good point, my dear chap, but do please make an attempt to spruce up your typing in future. At the very least I expect capitalised letters at the start of sentences. Now, it is true that I had not considered the utter havoc that could be caused by a softened stance on bolshevik revolutionary types*, despite one’s benevolent and paternalistic traits.

              Rugby ,racing and beer!..2 out of 3…ain’t ..bad.

              It is difficult to vote rationally when one is addicted to such vices, old fruit. However I’ll make an exception for the rugby.

              *LIke Stalin, however, I believe that a spot of hard labour can be most rewarding for the silken-skinned intellectuals, do-gooders and pious liberals of this world.

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              @ admiral Billy/Wilhelm…please desist from being a grammar/spelling detective…it is not necessary or pertinent.We have had the ,Ajax and the Achilles..it may be time for the Exiter=your …emollation…

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              please desist from being a grammar/spelling detective…it is not necessary or pertinent.We have had the ,Ajax and the Achilles..it may be time for the Exiter=your …emollation…

              Blazer, my dear, how do you possibly hope to rise above your lowly station in life if you spend your time ignoring proper grammatical form and function? Have you no intellectual curiosity?

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              @Grafspee…simplicity is always best Admiral.I know you understand what I post…that’s what’s important.

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              Only God knows what you mean, old chum. Like all casuists, you make Gury and St. Alfonso dei Liguori look like bush-leaguers. Hey ho.

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              @Admiral…I was inclined to blow you out of the water ..but ‘casuists’…is almost redemption….;)

            • admiralvonspee

               /  April 30, 2018

              You know what they say: spare the rod, spoil the prole.

  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  April 30, 2018

    Bring back Tony Ryall – or at least award a retrospective knighthood for managing an impossible sector quietly and competently.

    Reply
  4. phantom snowflake

     /  April 30, 2018

    Am a bit rushed today so I may have misread something above. Oh God please let it be incorrect that David Clark is claiming that increased presentations at Emergency Departments of people with mental health issues is due to a spike in dementia due to people living longer?! So that’s a ‘Win’ then; it’s a positive sign? WTAF!! Does he believe the shit he seems to be spouting? Have more to add later.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  April 30, 2018

      The man shows every sign of being an Idiot of the First Order, unfortunately. With honours.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  April 30, 2018

        When he has his doctorate his big challenge will be deciding which online forum to retire to.

        Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 30, 2018

      The topic text was TL:DR for me ps … but your understanding is usually accurate … sorry to say … Some ‘idiocracy’ does seem to be showing up …?

      If Clark is saying that the area of our health system most in crisis is Mental Health, I cannot understand why there is any question or contention whatsoever about that?

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/101085305/police-mental-health-calls-soar-up-to-250-per-cent

      For most readers, one must realize, this topic is in large part about Labour-led’s reneging on or reducing or delaying election-promise spending … (which might in fact be good economic management?) … It’s one of today’s two “daily attack”* topics … Allow me to translate …

      “Claims of crisis are not new” means “It’s obviously not really important” or “we’ve been living with it for ages and saving heaps not spending any more “other people’s money” on it, so we can easily go on doing so” …

      “Perhaps they could go and talk to the mental health crisis working group. Drug addiction is a symptom of mental health problems.” … Speaks for itself really … Serious stuff?

      * I attribute the expression “daily attack topic” to duperez.

      Reply
      • duperez

         /  April 30, 2018

        Thank you. At least it’s not about some All Black in a dunny or some Aussie footballer and hell. The discussion might one day go as far as the nitty gritty of the reality of dealing with those with mental health issues which we heard about from Dunedin this morning. Or the things a friend of mine works with every day working in a centre. Get past the politics I mean, but of course that is a faint hope.

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018642733/meth-in-nz-rehab-funding-system-failing

        Reply
      • phantom snowflake

         /  April 30, 2018

        Hi Parti. I’m still getting over Jonathan Coleman, who was an abject failure in Mental Health; and it’s looking like we have another “do nothing” Health Minister. We have had the odd National Party sycophant posting actual figures here to prove that under Coleman/National funding has been increased in all areas of Health, including Mental Health. This is an egregious misuse of statistics, thus: When the need/demand for certain Mental Health services has increased sharply, almost exponentially, it’s worse than useless to increase funding 2, 3, 4 or whatever % and trumpet “Look! I’ve increased funding!
        Regarding the Mental Health Inquiry; There’s no good reason I can think of to choose either an Inquiry or improving services. As an interim measure/bandaid; it’s a no-brainer that increasing community and residential drug treatment services would quite soon begin to take some pressure off both the Mental Health and Criminal Justice systems.

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  April 30, 2018

          Labour can’t afford half the shit they have promised – mental health reform just one of them. Now if they hadn’t wasted billions on well-off students and the Shane Jones slush fund…

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  April 30, 2018

            Partly correct PDB … The student fees was rather poorly handled … As I think Miss Kitty commented it would be better phased-in from the third year backwards to the first …

            The Provincial Growth Fund on the other hand is a marvellous form of tax transfer going to exactly where it’s needed …

            Long may it “slush” …

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  April 30, 2018

              Your ‘marvellous form of tax transfer’ is billions of taxpayer $ being handed out by a guy who couldn’t even be trusted not to buy porn on his taxpayer credit card. ‘Exactly where it is needed’ seems to be in quite a few cases where Jones has some personal ties to.

              No surprise you support such a waste of taxpayer money however.

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              Is porn on his taxpayer credit card as serious as Metiria Turei ‘defrauding’ the MSD?

              “Seems to be” and “is” are quite different things … “Quite a few cases” could be just “some cases”?

              Also Jones, being Maori, may have a great many “personal ties” through his whakapapa … which doesn’t necessarily mean nepotism … just personal acquaintance … nothing unusual in that … most directors of listed companies know each other by acquaintance, Right? Indeed, many directors sit on multiple companies’ boards …

              And I will continue to support the PGF until some ‘output’ and ‘outcome’ results are in …

              No surprise you get personal at the end there …

          • phantom snowflake

             /  April 30, 2018

            You reply to me by attacking the Labour-led government. You should know by now that I don’t support them; I’ve mentioned it at least twice!

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              But … Phantom Snowflake … attacking the Labour-led government is what this topic and the other ‘Health’ one are really all about …

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 30, 2018

              Makes a change from the usual smearing of the Green Party I guess. This ‘place’ gets more like effin’ kiwiblog every day…

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              It does … There’s only around five or six of us on here holding the full force of the Right at bay … You, me, Possum, Blazer, duperez and maybe Gezza (sometimes) … Shane le Brun … Actually, there’s more than I thought …

              Haven’t heard from Joe Bloggs for quite a while …

              Hang on … lemme do a count up … Alan, PDB, Miss Kitty, admiralvonspee … Ray … NOEL (mostly) … trevors_elbow, traveller, Grimm … Yeah, we’re slightly outnumbered …

              That’s about the Right and Left of it …

              “They’d be cannibals if it wasn’t for us savages”

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 30, 2018

              I’ve never been inclined towards Centrism myself, but I have appreciated the ‘point of difference’ this blog used to have, with something of a Centrist perspective overall. Alas those days appear to be over.

            • PDB

               /  April 30, 2018

              PS: “You reply to me by attacking the Labour-led government. You should know by now that I don’t support them; I’ve mentioned it at least twice!”

              Keep your shirt on – I was simply adding to your comments asking why the mental health crisis has been put on the backburner by the current govt.

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              @Phantom Snowflake – “I’ve never been inclined towards Centrism myself … this blog used to have … something of a Centrist perspective overall. Alas those days appear to be over.”

              You should try being a Utopian Enterprise Socialist on here!!!

              “There is nothing which stands in the way of a return to nature (and natural ethics) … than property in the soil …

              To speak here of property as one does of property in an article of use is to renounce thought … The soil is not a commodity.” (Frank E Warner, ‘Future of Man’, 1944)

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              should read ” … except property in the soil” …

            • phantom snowflake

               /  April 30, 2018

              “Utopian Enterprise Socialist”. I myself am of no fixed political position; this week I feel drawn towards Anarcho-Pacifism. It aligns with both my reluctance to recognize the legitimacy of government/laws, and my desire to ‘do no harm’. I reserve the right to try out something else next week.

            • Conspiratoor

               /  May 1, 2018

              A good analysis of the underdog socialist and why they are always outside the tent pissing in. We see it here in spades…

              “But the underdog socialists’ biggest problem isn’t that they are wrong. They are not. Their biggest problem is that they’re dull. Dull as a doorknob. They’ve got no story to tell; nor even the language to convey it in. Having arrived at the conclusion that politics is a mere matter of identity, they have chosen an arena in which they will lose every time”

              https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/19/socialism-left-hard-well-morally-superior-right

        • PartisanZ

           /  April 30, 2018

          Well said ps … Irrefutable IMHO …

          Reply
          • PDB

             /  April 30, 2018

            Most people on this site are somewhere near the middle with the largest group centre-right. Of course the centre-right are the new ‘far-right’ to the people of the left as the far-right doesn’t particularly exist nowadays and have no MSM support. God help you if you are a centre-right old white male – sure as eggs to be compared to Hitler.

            You also forgot Zedd, Guyton etc who are also way out left somewhere. Griff is also more left than right (in fact never often right).

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              Actually PDB … You’re Right! The Lefties on here may outnumber the Righties … If we both discount the Trolls. Yay!!! We ‘win’!

              Don Brash “has no MSM support” … Geez, give me a break!

              ActionStation have got a campaign going against him attempting to prevent him and his tiny ‘Right Brigade’ scuttling Maori Wards in LGNZ …

              I’m even tempted to support it … except I can’t find it on ActionStation’s own website …

              Don’t be afraid of being an Old White Male (OWM) PDB … the Hitler thing is considered a given … goes without saying … you know …

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 30, 2018

            Mefro is left of centre too.

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              It’s a landslide victory for the Lefties!!! Yay!

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              traveller,Missy,Pete,yourself,trev,maggy,artcroft,alleytoo, david,david 2,david3,barry,larry,sailor,…etc..etc…right wingers outnumber the reasonable people by miles.

  5. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    Neoliberalism led to greater economic and consumer rewards for the ‘haves’ … including either an increase in their absolute number or in the number of those who aspire to be them …

    And it led to the absolute necessity of supporting the ‘have nots’ via austere social welfare.

    By neoliberal definition, the ‘have nots’ must go on increasing because the ‘haves’, driven by “rational self-interest” *sarc*, are all competing for a finite pie limited by “scarce natural resources” …

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  April 30, 2018

      Best then that we leave healthcare to far left-wingers like those trying to fight the excellent Ronald McDonald House from being established within some hospitals because some people don’t know how to eat in moderation & may become fat on their meals.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103316260/mcstoush-ronald-mcdonald-house-likened-to-beer-and-ciggy-sponsorship

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  April 30, 2018

        You mean these people are not perfectly wise when it comes to “rational self-interest” PDB … as you yourself no doubt are?

        Or could it be that in ‘reality’, irrationality rules economics?

        ‘Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions’ by Dan Ariely, and ‘Animal Spirits: How Human Psychology Drives the Economy, and Why It Matters for Global Capitalism’ by Nobel laureates George Akerlof and Robert Shiller

        Do you remember the days of tobacco & liquor sponsorship? Marlborough Formula One … The Winfeild Cup NRL … Steinlager America’s Cup … Oh well, tobacco’s gone …

        Yes, McDonalds sponsoring children’s hospital facilities is just like that … The very same ‘target market’ approach … because people are “predictably irrational” …

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  April 30, 2018

          Nonsense – comparing food to tobacco and alcohol is disingenuous.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  April 30, 2018

            Comparing McDonalds to food is disingenuous …

            Reply
            • PDB

               /  April 30, 2018

              That could apply to a lot of food products these days but the hand wringers are very selective in who they attack. You obviously haven’t been in a position where you’ve had to use Ronald McDonald house (no doubt stuck on your high horse) – superb initiative for those in times of need and not a burger in sight.

            • Blazer

               /  April 30, 2018

              @PDB…money back on..a Happy Meal…

  1. Mental health crisis talk, but no urgency walk — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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