Open Forum – Monday

30 April 2018

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65 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    Monday morning laugh,Hosking gushing at a 100 mph over Trump being a shoe in for a Nobel peace prize.Sorry Mike the two leaders in Korea will get it, as a person(Trump) who threatens to nuke a country into dust really isn’t a candidate for a peace prize.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 30, 2018

      Shoe in is it, I hope, he needs a boot up the bum.

      Yes, threatening to bomb a country into oblivion is more likely to earn a shoo out than a shoo in.

      Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    Simon Bridge’s on AM this morning twice stated that the National party wants to help”hard working New Zealanders”so Simon define to New Zealand what a hard worker is and what is Nationals definition for the rest of NZ??

    Reply
  3. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    This folks is why you pay through the nose for petrol,nothing to do with labor
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103470616/behind-the-pricing-internal-email-lifts-veil-on-bps-petrol-prices

    Reply
    • NOEL

       /  April 30, 2018

      I wish the Commerce Commission or a Government with balls would attack the marketing exercise of only showing 91 and diesel on the bill boards. Was a time when the differential between 95 and 91 wasn’t much but now there are swings as the commodities are listed seperately.
      With replacement of the aging fleet more and more cars on the road don’t perform on 91.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 30, 2018

        I see 91 and 95 in some places. Now that I’ve said that, I will find that they are nowhere to be seen, as always happens.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  April 30, 2018

          That story was unbelievable, BP may well have scored the own goal of the century with that witless decision, as well as giving Gull, especially, $?????? of free publicity.

          Reply
  4. Blazer

     /  April 30, 2018

    Mr Bridges wants to help ‘hardworking’…bankers,RE agents,Insurers,landlords and speculators ….the rest of you can GAGF.

    Reply
    • Bridges has just been talking on RNZ.

      I turned off (mentally) after his first sentence. His voice doesn’t demand attention (for me anyway).

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 30, 2018

        Change the record, Blazer, the needle’s stuck on that one.

        Reply
  5. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    The NRA ban guns at their convention to protect the VP Mike Pence but STUFF SCHOOL CHILDREN there’s an AR15 waiting to kill you, children, somewhere….waiting waiting
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-convention-bans-guns-to-protect-mike-pence-parkland-survivors-jaws-drop_us_5ae4f225e4b04aa23f239924

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  April 30, 2018

      Working overtime down ticker, i hope your boss knows you are not working,because you are reading my posts, naughty

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 30, 2018

        It’s the Phantom Down Ticker of Old London Town….

        Reply
  6. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    PG love Dunedin, the Scottish shop the cathedral not too sure about Speights,so PG this is for your local brew

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  April 30, 2018

      I had totally forgotten that ad, what a classic !!!

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 30, 2018

        The compilation of The Chase is a bonus. I have seen it before, but still laughed as much as I did the first time as the compere corpses; I don’t think that I have ever seen anyone lose it so completely. He is literally crying with laughter in one place.

        Reply
  7. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    Its the end of charter schools today, and the leader of the party of one David Saymor is devastated,tough,a bribe from National flushed away and the pupils put back into the system, where they have to perform, one for David, the party of one enjoy

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  April 30, 2018

      “and the pupils put back into the system, where they have to perform”

      Put them back into the system where they failed – ideology over fact.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  April 30, 2018

        What do the pupils and their families and the people teaching them know ? or those who have seen their marks ?

        Reply
  8. sorethumb

     /  April 30, 2018

    OPINION
    Motherhood is not a ‘penalty’
    The reality is that mothers are paid less than non-mothers (and accumulate less wealth as a result) not because employers or “society” penalize us, but because, on aggregate, mothers make trade-offs that result in less money. This leaves us “worse off” — but only in the eyes of those who value monetary earnings above other things, like spending time with children, volunteering, or other unpaid pursuits.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/motherhood-is-not-a-penalty

    Reply
  9. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    “The UN committee specifically pointed to the lack of enforceability of Māori rights under the Treaty of Waitangi and recommended that the New Zealand government ‘take immediate steps’ to work with Māori in developing the constitutional role of the Treaty of Waitangi, including addressing the proposals put forward in the 2016 Matike Mai Aotearoa report.

    The committee expressed concern that Waitangi Tribunal recommendations are not binding and are frequently ignored. The committee determined that the government should ensure that it acts on all recommendations from the tribunal, ‘including in its landmark report Ko Aotearoa Tēnei’.”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/12-04-2018/why-the-un-wants-new-zealand-to-strengthen-maori-rights/

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  April 30, 2018

      Last week, a United Nations committee noted
      …………
      Did someone vote for them?
      Do they have a strong argument – no. Hereditary rights to power and public resources went out with the Ark.
      The Treaty was never an agreement about modern NZ.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  April 30, 2018

        So … you think we should elect our UN representatives sorethumb?

        By “hereditary rights” do you mean like those exercised by the British and several other monarchies?

        Or by the Rothchilds et al … the global corporate-capitalist-political elites constantly referred to as “families” … wielding monstrous inherited wealth and power …

        The Treaty was absolutely an agreement about modern NZ, in that it was an agreement about the founding of the nation – someday to be officially called Aotearoa New Zealand – which surely has continuity from then to now …?

        We could do without a ‘Convention on the Rights of the Child’ no doubt …?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child

        Check out the map! Look who hasn’t ratified it …

        Reply
    • Griff

       /  April 30, 2018

      Concurrent with the separatists responsible for the Matike Mai Aotearoa report going round pursing their vision for apartheid we had an official panel looking into our constitution.
      Its members included.
      http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/
      Hinurewa Poutu (Ngāti Rangi, Te Āti Haunui a Pāpārangi, Ngāti Maniapoto
      Sir Tipene O’Regan (Co-chair) (Ngāi Tahu)
      Dr Leonie Pihama (Te Ātiawa, Ngā Māhanga a Tairi, Ngāti Māhanga)
      Professor Linda Tuhiwai Smith (Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Porou)
      Peter Tennent (Te Aupōuri)
      Dr Ranginui Walker (Te Whakatōhea)
      Bernice Mene
      Hon John Luxton
      Hon Sir Michael Cullen
      Emeritus Professor John Burrows QC (Co-chair)
      Peter Chin
      As you can see the majority of the panel are Maori so there was clearly a strong Maori voice in this process.

      They found by far the largest majority of New Zealands population is not interested in having the treaty as part of a written constitution.
      As this country belongs to all of us all we all have the right to guide our future direction.
      Not a small number of unelected Maori separatists with no mandate from even Maoridom.

      One of the principle clauses of the treaty is Sovereignty belongs solely with the crown though our elected government.
      In the English version Māori leaders gave the Queen ‘all the rights and powers of sovereignty’ over their land. In the Māori text, Māori leaders gave the Queen ‘te kawanatanga katoa’ or the complete government over their land.

      Sovereignty.

      The authority of a state to govern itself or another state.

      The government.
      ˈ

      the group of people with the authority to govern

      Is sovereign.

      The right of the crown to hold Sovereignty over NZ is clearly laid out in the first clause of the treaty in both English and Maori.

      The waitangi tribunal is not above our government or the principles of the treaty.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  April 30, 2018

        I have great respect for your opinions on Climate Change and Oil & Gas etc Griff, but things are getting bad when you can mistake Matike Mai’s spirit of goodwill as being “separatism” …

        … and use the word “apartheid” in this context, a word that can only ever describe White Rule in ‘Apartheid’ South Africa.

        The Constitutional Advisory Panel was appointed by none other than John Key!

        The man who loved appointed ‘Advisory Panels’ as much or more than our new government loves ‘Working Groups’?

        The CAP report certainly is a mystery … I can’t find statistics as to respondents opinions on various matters … They may have found a majority of SUBMITTERS did not want TOW in a Constitution … but CAP ‘activated’ the Right Brigade big time, such that the Panel were consequently forced to acknowledge and reference “cloned submissions” in their report.

        Just like KFL, Hobson’s Pledge, OneAotearoa and Pre-Maori civilizations ‘believers’, the statistically miniscule number of these people is totally disproportionate to their promotional capabilities … They can make so much more noise than their numbers warrant …

        Rangatira only signed the Te Reo text of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and its therefore easily understandable that because the word “mana” was not used they DID NOT consider themselves to be signing away their tino rangatiratanga or “sovereignty” … a British concept they did not even understand …

        So English definitions of the English words in the English version are thrice irrelevant!

        Reply
  10. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    Another one for the ‘good’ corporations …

    ‘Leaked email lifts lid on BP’s petrol pricing strategy’ – Heraldo

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12041980

    Ratifies economic theory like the theory of perfect competition too … ???

    Well … No … the theory of perfect contradiction maybe?

    Reply
  11. Pickled Possum

     /  April 30, 2018

    “The New Zealand legal profession now has more women lawyers than male lawyers.
    The New Zealand Law Society says that of 13,103 lawyers currently practising in New Zealand, 6553 are women and 6550 are men.”
    Does that mean there is going to be a lot more cougars in the Law and Order World??
    Taking over from the old stale leechers of old. Who coerced the meek and fearful.
    Will the Cougars do it with guile? #Hopeso
    http://www.lawsociety.org.nz/news-and-communications/news/women-lawyers-now-in-the-majority

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 30, 2018

      I might be a little biased … but # Hopeso has gotta be among the comments of the year so far …?

      Reply
  12. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    No live streaming of the Health Select Committee today on FaceBook due to “sound quality issues” from last time, which I think was 11 April, so they had 19 days to fix it …

    I’m very angry. Today the HSC is hearing individual oral submitters and the committee has broken into two sub-committees …

    These are arguably the very submitters who most need to know and feel their whanau, loved-ones, family and friends are watching their korero live and giving support, awhi and aroha …

    Feel part of the enormous compassionate community who support cannabis law reform.

    High quality video will be posted tomorrow … which can never compensate for watching live and live comments … a useful gauge of public opinion …

    A slap in the face of participatory democracy …

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  April 30, 2018

      tautoko PZ.. there has been a bit of a ‘media blackout’ on this ?

      I put a link to 1news chat this a.m. (Ms Holt & a lawyer) on the issue.. MOI 🙂

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  April 30, 2018

        oops.. the link is in; media watch-monday

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  April 30, 2018

          A media blackout on the oral submissions of everyday individual citizens …

          It is NOT A GOOD LOOK …

          Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  April 30, 2018

      I’m in an iron lung (I’ve been waiting for something more advanced for 25 years now)

      Reply
  13. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    ‘Auckland Mayor Phil Goff dismisses Simon Bridges’ plan to scrap regional fuel tax’ – Heraldo

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12042101

    “I would be very surprised if any future Government took away, effectively, $4.3b of funding without suggesting where that funding will come from,” he [Goff] said.

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 30, 2018

      National unwittingly “normalizes” the fuel tax …

      Now it becomes an argument about whether to remove it or not.

      Reply
  14. sorethumb

     /  April 30, 2018

    Auckland local board member claims ‘free speech’ to defend racist, sexist posts
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/103221294/auckland-local-board-member-claims-free-speech-to-defend-racist-sexist-posts

    Good on him, It was the government who decided diversity was a great strength – does that mean we all have to agree? Or go quietly? Not that i agree with everything he says but the attitude of government in a multicultural society is that they are teachers on school sports day. As demonstrated by Devoy the Deplorable: “Anyone who complains about te reo Māori being used and celebrated in this country need to get one thing straight: this is New Zealand. Aotearoa New Zealand – so get used to it,” [you are wrong Devoy. RNZ is using Maori sentences and telling us to go a look up what they mean. The socialist horse is ahead of the cart]

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  April 30, 2018

      Dumb of him …

      Battersby, doing more harm than good to his own cause … and Brash’s … Bob Jones’ … and Minions …

      “Dr Camille Nakhid said Battersby’s comments illustrated the racism present in New Zealand’s political institutions.”

      Our “diverse” population recognizes this immediately, including tangata whenua, pakeha and probably every minority group … (with the exception of the 1100 strong ‘Right Brigade’) …

      Now he’s made his “free speech” bed and lies in it … listening to the sound of his many detractors exercising their right to “free speech” …

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  April 30, 2018

      Silly old bugger. As long as he’s happy to get as good as he gives I wouldn’t worry about him. Obviously a nutter. Blocking him if he rants at you on Twitter sounds like a good idea.

      Reply
  15. sorethumb

     /  April 30, 2018

    Pragmatism, Andrew Sharp notes, has been a feature of our
    negotiation of Treaty issues. He has written that people who
    took this point of view were happy to ‘fudge’ it. We had
    arguments, he points out, that didn’t seem capable of being
    solved: people could not agree on what rights Maori and Pakeha
    respectively had, and what was due to them. In the face of
    impossible disagreement, the past two decades saw deals,
    settlements and arrangements that could be lived with.
    Pragmatic resolutions, in the face of altogether—too- difficult
    philosophical disagreements.

    If that’s so, is there a better way of going about this? Sharp
    says we fail to look at issues in a useful way Take, he says, the
    way the foreshore debate developed:

    You’ve replaced a common law regime with a statutory one —
    and a statutory one in the end more favourable to Maori than
    the common law one. It’s just a statutory regime, which will
    work, substituting for a common law regime which probably
    did nothing. But the problem with doing anything was what
    bedevils our politics — brash symbolism.

    That’s why, he says, he doesn’t like the Treaty much, because it
    doesn’t mean anything until you get down to details and clarify
    your meanings, and once you do, you’re in trouble because
    whatever you do there’s going to be disagreement.
    And it’s the same with this. It was a debate where meanings
    were uncontrolled – anything could happen, anything could be
    said, all of this might seem somehow to be relevant to what was
    at issue, but none of it was.

    He says we New Zealanders do a pretty poor job of isolating,
    clarifying and writing about precisely what it is we’re arguing
    about. And because we don’t analyse and understand those
    arguments, we don’t actually see the consequences of our
    arguments. He gives the example of the way the debate took
    shape in the mid-1970s about reparation for past wrongs:

    It was assumed – far too easily I think – that there was some
    substance in the argument. There wasn’t any substance at all.
    What there is, is an emotional commitment to repairing the
    past, doing something about it. But the moment you think
    about that » that justice requires putting back people in the
    position they would have been in if the wrong hadn’t been done,
    compensating them in such a way that they’re now capable of
    competing in the way that they would have been [able to] – the
    minute you begin to phrase it specifically in one of those ways
    or otherwise, then you’ll see that intellectually; the task’s totally
    impossible. You cant put people back in the position that they
    would have been in had the wrong not been done.

    Why not? Because, he says, so much has happened since the
    wrong took place. History could have taken people in so many
    different directions, depending on what happened next and
    what happened after that and so on, that we just can’t say what
    position they would have been in today if the wrong had not
    happened. It would depend on ‘external accidents, their own
    effort, luck, all sorts of stuff like that. If you are thinking about
    compensation that we could make in the present, it’s impossible
    for those reasons to calculate what that would be”

    Civil War & Other Optomistic Predictions (David Slack)

    Reply
  16. sorethumb

     /  April 30, 2018

    Bullshit, Backlash, and Bleeding Hearts. By David Slack:

    People sometimes ask me, ‘How do I see the Treaty. How should we think of the Treaty?’ I’ve always said that the first article of the Treaty – the kawanatanga part – is very strong – much stronger than some Maori are prepared to concede, and the second article, which guarantees rangatiratanga is also very strong – much stronger than many Pakeha are prepared to concede. So how can we have these two strong articles sitting there? I’m tempted sometimes by this idea. In a way both sides gambled. The Crown gambled. Why was it prepared to sign up to Article II? Well, in a sense the Crown gambled that there would be assimilation. And therefore if there was assimilation, as you will see. Article II would become increasingly unimportant. On the other hand, Maori gambled. After all, why did Maori sign up for Article I – and by the way, don’t go for these readings that say Article I was only giving the Queen power over Pakeha. The most elementary reading of the Maori version of the first article shows that that is completely untenable. It gives the Queen te Kawanatanga katoa – all – of the kawanatanga; o ratou wenua – of their lands. Now, which lands is that? That’s the lands of the chiefs. That’s all it can be -have a look at the structure and I challenge anyone to show me an even faintly tenable reading which can dispute that it’s all the territory of New Zealand.
    So why did Maori sign up to that? Well, I think they gambled. I think they gambled that the as they were in 1840, but would stay approximately such that there would be a preponderance of Maori and that the newcomers would be relatively few. I know there is a reference in the preamble to others coming, but I think the gamble was that if the demographics stayed favourable to Maori then this kawanatanga thing would be a really abstract sort of notion in the background.

    Reply
  17. sorethumb

     /  April 30, 2018

    The Ati Awa chief Te Wharepouri told William Wakefield that when he had participated in the sale of land to the New Zealand Company he had been expecting about ten Pakeha, to settle around Port Nicholson, one Pakeha for each pa. When he saw the more than 1,000 settlers who stepped off the company’s ships, he panicked. It was beyond anything that Te Wharepouri had imagined.
    Penguin History of NZ Michael King.
    Therefore the Treaty was not built for purpose. European settlers would likewise not have accepted the sort of tripe the Green Party spout. Their election poster had some sickly Pakeha looking into a stream while a Maori boy stood proud – chest sticking out (evating Maori to some mythical uber culture). One thing the Christian colonists learnt was that “the wise man builds his house upon a rock”. I notice not many Maori vote for the Maori Party.

    Reply
  18. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    ‘Partially complete 10 metre-long waka found during north Auckland motorway construction’ – Stuff.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103480134/partially-complete-10-metrelong-waka-found-during-north-auckland-motorway-construction

    ” … uncovered during excavation work on a motorway project in Puhoi, north Auckland.”

    Oh oh … could this severely delay the $709 million dollar construction of a mere 18Km of motorway between Puhoi and Warkworth …? $40 million per kilometre!?

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  April 30, 2018

      Didn’t sound like it was going to slow things up unduly on 1ewes.

      And this is the last sentence of the article you’ve posted:

      The find would not delay the motorway project, and contractors would work on other sites while the waka was examined and moved. 🙄 ?

      Reply
  19. PartisanZ

     /  April 30, 2018

    Speaking of the obsessional & delusional “holiday highway” … Folks in Northland are taking longer to get over it than losing the election … despite winning the seat back for National …

    ‘Whangarei MP says Northland has been sacrificed for Auckland’s light rail’ – Stuff

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/northland/103241844/whangarei-mp-says-northland-has-been-sacrificed-for-aucklands-light-rail

    “Whangarei MP Dr Shane Reti said Northlanders will be very disappointed with the cancellation of the four-lane highway between Warkworth and Whangarei.”

    Not this one.

    Bizarrely from a PR point-of-view, in the photo second down in the article, John Bain, Chairman of the Northland Regional Transport Committee, is standing beside the safety plus present-and-future volume capability ‘EXEMPLAR’ of Northland roads – if not NZ’s – the Brynderwyn’s North-side, which is 2 plus 1 (2 lanes plus passing lane) with median and side barriers and highly durable surfacing …

    That’s all that’s needed from Puhoi North, or maybe Warkworth North if the Puhoi toll-road abomination still goes ahead … and, with Labour-led reducing State Highway expenditure overall by only 11 percent in ‘reality’ … VOILA!!!

    “There will be safety improvements made to State Highway 1 including more passing lanes, pull over bays, upgraded intersections, medium and side barriers, and maybe even four lanes in some places.” says Twyford …

    I suspect that in the absence of a new flag, RoNS became the altar-cross of National government symbolism … and these are its High Priests …

    Reply
    • Griff

       /  April 30, 2018

      “There will be safety improvements made to State Highway 1 including more passing lanes, pull over bays, upgraded intersections, medium and side barriers,

      Dome valley.
      They have trouble keeping two lanes open due to slips let alone expanding the road to three lanes plus median.
      Then you have Wellsford and Tehana
      What are you going to do demolish half the towns to make better intersections passing lanes and pullover bays?
      Median barriers don’t work unless the lanes on both sides are wide enough for two trucks side by side. If its not wide enough one brake down and the road is blocked until the obstruction is removed.
      They are the major problems the Puhoi to Wellsford section was designed to by pass.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  April 30, 2018

        I’ve nothing against by-passing those problems, or perhaps the most severe of them … but there’s absolutely no need to by-pass the many kilometres of perfectly adequate SH1 in between …

        What you say about median and side barriers and two truck lanes minimum is BS IMHO, as evidenced by the Northside of the Brynderwyns.

        So yeah, by-pass Dome Valley, Warkworth, Wellsford … and, of course, do the rational thing at bottlenecks during holiday traffic … turn off the Lights and put Traffic Police on point-duty …

        The only reason for spending an obscene and cost/benefit impossible amount of money to by-pass the entire length of existing SH1 is to make it a tollway and further entrench the two-tier economy of Aotearoa NZ … the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ …

        Reply
        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  April 30, 2018

          It’s just bloody ridiculous and disgraceful waste of money to be building 2+1 roads at tremendous cost and delay when for a trivial extra cost it could have been a proper 2+2 divided road. Incompetents in NZTA need to be sacked.

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  April 30, 2018

            You’ve got costings on this have you Alan?

            I reckon Brynderwyns is at least 3Km for $80 million, so 26.6 million per km compared to $40 million per km for four lane …

            Or $3.05 billion for the remaining 115 km to Whangarei compared to $4.6 billion for four lane … ‘2 + 1 Safety’ is about 1/3rd cheaper …

            33% is hardly a trivial extra cost?

            And I reckon $26.6 million per km would take care of several by-passes too, given that some stretches of SH1 will not need that much spent on them.

            It’s not incompetence at that wonderful “independent” agency NZTA, its their collusion with the National government on RoNS for which heads should roll!

            Reply
        • Griff

           /  April 30, 2018

          I did not say two lanes I just said wide enough for two trucks.
          On the north side of the bendys the single lane plus verge is wide enough for two trucks.
          The dome its not you have rock or river gorge either side that would cost heaps to widen.

          The geology in the dome is too unstable to make it worth while hence the dome section needs bypassing .

          There is not much distance between Waybye valley rd at the end of the dome and wellsford were you would need to bypass the town to make the road safer and quicker in peak times.
          Once the Warkworth section is finished the main bottle neck is Wellsford town itself. There are no traffic lights in Wellsford. The Town has little room to improve safety or flow without removing large chucks of the business district . Its only a short hop to Te Hana that again should be bypassed though its not as much of an issue as Wellsford.
          The proposed road comes out just the other side of Te Hana at Vipons rd.
          ‘The only piece you could retain even according to you is the short section between the end of the dome and Wellsford. The rest of highway 1 though Kiawaka and to the base of the bendys is not that bad as it is reasonably straight and has sufficient passing opportunity’s already.
          Do it once and do it right .
          A road is a fifty year asset.
          In fifty years Wellsford will be a suburb of AK Warkworth already is.

          I often use the old highway rather than the toll rd if I am not in a hurry.
          It costs about the same in extra petrol as the toll because the old highway is steeper and longer so I don’t see how it makes two classes of peploe.

          .

          Reply
          • PartisanZ

             /  April 30, 2018

            I don’t know how we’ve survived up until now … or how we survive today?

            I did not say widen Dome Valley I’d be happy to by-pass it. Same with Wellsford, if you want the town to die …

            How many “peak times” are there? Public holidays and … You know how they have a 5th lane on the Harbour Bridge every single morning and night …? Well, carefully orchestrated and controlled, both lanes could be used going North or South through Wellsford at “peak times” …

            Taken to its logical conclusion your argument would say SH1 should ideally by-pass all towns and cities … ?

            Regrettably “do it once and do it right” is a maxim barely applicable to roads, which are going to need constant short- and long-term repairs and maintenance, and always be subject to natural or man-made disasters.

            ‘2 + 1 Safety’ with suitable by-passes is “doing it right” … This ain’t England with 33.7 million vehicles, it’s lil’ ole NZ with 3.6 million …

            In 50 years who knows if Auckland will need or even be able to support suburbs any more?

            Reply
        • Conspiratoor

           /  April 30, 2018

          Armchair experts can always do better with less but NZTA are working within the constraints of the geology and terrain..

          “This stretch of road is windy with poor visibility and steep slopes so we are limited in the type of improvements we can use”

          From the business case..
          “Recent events (such as the flooding of SH1 through Dome Valley with a diversion to SH16 over the 2011 Auckland Anniversary weekend) demonstrate the lack of route resilience with the current road and how easily Northland could be isolated for an extended period should SH1 be affected by a natural disaster.
          The existing highway passes over terrain which includes numerous examples of ground instability such as at Schedewys Hill and along Windy Ridge. This is due to the historical nature of the alignment, which was originally adopted as it offered the ‘path of least resistance’ in construction terms. The alignment was selected without any cognisance of the stability of the geology, geometric design or the long-term efficiency of the route”

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  April 30, 2018

            3 years to build another ridiculous 2+1 stretch through easy terrain at Akerama. A similar time to rebuild Bulls Gorge and didn’t even manage a passing lane. Lunacy.

            Reply
            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              So how come you’ve got confidence in their 4 lane motorway plans?

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 30, 2018

              At least those are aimed at building a proper road suitable for keeping tourists on the correct side of the road while allowing competent drivers to overtake them. But it will of course cost a fortune and take forever.

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              According to Griff 4 lanes are needed just so two trucks can overtake each other … So you’ll need 6 or 8 lanes Alan …

            • Conspiratoor

               /  April 30, 2018

              al, as blunders go the brenderwyns would be up there surely. Okay you would lose that magnifient view as you come over the top but I wonder whether Alice would have been a better option. The money saved on road cones alone would have paid for it

            • PartisanZ

               /  April 30, 2018

              But LTNZ’s not doing tunneling with ‘4 Lanes to Whangarei’ Conspiratoor, they’re buying up valuable farm and forest land, presumably for “the stability of the geology, geometric design or the long-term efficiency of the route” …

              They want to detour one side or other of the Brynderwyns …

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  April 30, 2018

              Yes, agree about Alice. There’s nothing else can be done about the south side.

  20. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    Its interesting to watch the tempory leader of the National party, Simon Bridges saying if national ever gets back into power he will remove the fuel tax surcharge in Auckland, well Simon your party did nothing for 9 years, so it would be business as…usual NOTHING

    Reply
  21. lurcher1948

     /  April 30, 2018

    I will say it kindly,David stick to trying to save your seat and party in Epson,dancing isn’t your strongest skill

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  April 30, 2018

      He is dancing for his seat. He knows the voting generation will be glued to their tv sets and clicking all the right places online. There’s ‘vote for David he’s a winner’ if he’s triumphant, the sympathy vote if things don’t go so well, and the ‘Gee, he’s a good bugger giving that a go’ vote in general.

      Reply

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