Open Forum – Saturday

5 May 2018

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36 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  May 5, 2018

    Winter Energy Payment Watered Down

    Yay if you’re one of a million New Zealanders who qualify for the new $700 Winter Energy Payment ($700 for couples, $450 for singles) – money you can actually spend on anything. The million lucky winners of the Government’s Winter Energy lottery are those on benefits and retirees on superannuation.

    For the beneficiaries, the payment will be welcome and warmly received. For the opinion writer below, though this payment grates – in truth it’s a fiddled promise right from the start.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103554971/winter-energy-payment-now-looks-a-lot-less-enticing

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  May 5, 2018

      First I heard of that

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  May 5, 2018

        I just hope the shortfall doesn’t see Alan spiralling into debt.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  May 5, 2018

          for someone so strident about ‘spending other peoples money’…his deeds don’t match his…words.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  May 5, 2018

            He’s actually very likeable when you get to know him.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  May 5, 2018

            That’s just another thing B doesn’t know, G.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  May 5, 2018

              Few people could probably picture us arguing just like we do here, over the coffee, table eating fish & chips, interrupted by, do you want some sauce?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 5, 2018

              I can’t believe that singles are getting so much less. It would surely be better to divvy it up and make it so much per household. It doesn’t cost any less to heat a room with one person in it than to heat one with two. Singles are definitely discriminated against in these things.

              I don’t think that the person selling firewood has been ‘diddled’, but was naively surprised that the amount has been cut by so much by making it start later than we were first told that it would start.

              National’s rise was much more generous.

              This is becoming a Claytons handout..

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 5, 2018

              PDT, Labour’s offer is about 2/3 of National’s.

  2. sorethumb

     /  May 5, 2018

    Griff
      /  May 4, 2018
    The USA culture wars and the rest of their liberal conservative divide does not translate into our political landscape.
    Often republican supporters on NZ blogs ignore the overt religiosity of the American political system.
    ………..
    Wrong
    https://sydneytrads.com/2015/01/28/deconstructing-progress/

    and

    Reply
  3. sorethumb

     /  May 5, 2018

    Replace a romanticized notion of a red flag waving working class with a romanticized construction of women, people of color and other marginalized identities to emerge out of the new social movements of the summer of love era, led by a vanguard of academics schooled in critical race theory and feminist theory, and you have the basis of today’s SJW regressive left.
    https://thealternativeleft.blogspot.co.nz/2017/09/what-jordan-peterson-gets-right-and.html

    Reply
  4. sorethumb

     /  May 5, 2018

    Griff
    / May 4, 2018
    The USA culture wars and the rest of their liberal conservative divide does not translate into our political landscape.

    PartisanZ
    Among those changes are a Bicultural, Bi-National or Consociational Constitution based on Te Tiriti o Waitangi and English law, but disposing of much of the garbage of Westminster … plus the first operations of such forms of government as it defines …

    “indigeneity is more than moving over and making space: it is a direct challenge to prevailing patterns of power and privilege” – Paul Spoonley

    https://thealternativeleft.blogspot.co.nz/2017/09/what-jordan-peterson-gets-right-and.html

    Reply
    • Griff

       /  May 5, 2018

      You are confusing the extremes with this country’s political overton window.
      We have alt right skin heads and alt left Maori separatists neither is a force of any note in NZ.
      The “conservatives” are not either.
      The abortion debate here is if we loosen are already liberal laws or stay with the status quo.
      Prostitution is legal as is gay marriage.We have free universal health care and a social welfare system.
      If a New Zealand politician started pushing their religion they would become unelectable as would many other completely normal standpoints in the USA like stand your ground, gun rights, climate change denial.
      We are a liberal democracy .

      Reply
  5. Zedd

     /  May 5, 2018

    If you support Cannabis law reform; then get out to J-day between ‘high noon & 420’ today; Whangarei, Akld, Hastings, Taupo, Wlgtn, ChCh & Dunsterdam !
    ..maybe other events not mentioned on the NORML list ?

    “Happy J-day folks” might see youz there.. 🙂

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  May 5, 2018

      Have one for me….

      Who said that ???

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  May 6, 2018

        I had one for me & thee 🙂

        It was not the usual J-day event in Dunsterdam: organised market-stall setup (stuff for sale etc.), speeches & music etc. ‘NORML officials’ seemed to have taken the day off ?

        BUT; a hardcore of cannabis law reform folks, ‘organically’ attended the Octagon, without any problems OR Cops to be seen 🙂

        A happy few hours were had by all present.. smiles were everywhere, without any obvious Insanity or a ‘gateway’ to HARD DRUGS in sight….

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 6, 2018

          While it’s probable that many hard drug users DO start with cannabis, the idea that it’s a gateway is sloppy thinking, How many alcoholics start with spirits ? My guess is that a lot begin with beer….ergo, beer is a gateway to alcoholism.

          It’s true that they ARE ‘gateways’ for some, but untrue that smoking dope WILL lead to hard drugs and untrue that beer drinking WILL lead to alcoholism.

          I began reading at three when I read the BREAD on our breadbin as ‘bread’. I now have several thousand books, an MA Hons in Eng Lit…do all people who learn to read end up like this ? Do all people who are taught maths become mathematical geniuses ? Er…no. I still can’t do long division, but I remember my brother seriously wondering what he had done wrong in a maths exam. He had 96%.

          The gateway thing is sloppy thinking. Some do, ergo all do.

          (jumps off soapbox)

          Reply
  6. sorethumb

     /  May 5, 2018

    Jordan Peterson’s Darwinian Aristocratic Liberalism: The Cathy Newman Interview (Part 3)
    http://darwinianconservatism.blogspot.co.nz/2018/04/jordan-petersons-darwinian-aristocratic_18.html

    Reply
  7. sorethumb

     /  May 5, 2018

    Myers raises four objections.

    (1) Hierarchies in the animal world have not evolved to be fixed and identical, as Peterson claims, because they are variable in response to variable social circumstances; and therefore human hierarchies really are social constructions, and as such they are open to change.

    (2) Peterson claims that the hierarchies of lobsters and human beings are the same in being derived from a common evolutionary ancestor, but this is denied by the logic and evidence of evolutionary science, which therefore refutes his assertion that human hierarchy is biologically determined.

    (3) Peterson claims that the hierarchies of lobsters and human beings are the same in being based on the same nervous system that runs on serotonin, but this is denied by the fact that the nervous systems of lobsters and humans are very different, and by the fact that serotonin serves diverse functions in different nervous systems.

    (4) Against Peterson’s claim that all hierarchies are simple, linear, and competitive, Myers argues that in fact they are complex and nonlinear, and they are based not just on competition but also on cooperation.

    All four objections fail because they are based on a straw-man fallacy: Myers is refuting claims that Peterson has not made.
    http://darwinianconservatism.blogspot.co.nz/2018/04/jordan-peterson-on-lobster-hierarchy.html

    Reply
    • sorethumb

       /  May 5, 2018

      Form post:
      Notice that like Cathy Newman, Myers is engaged in a dominance contest with Peterson. For Myers, an intellectual discussion like this is an opportunity to show his superiority over those with whom he disagrees, as shown by his smug insulting dismissal of Peterson: “he is a loon!” So Myers gives us a good illustration of what Peterson identifies as one of the eight kinds of conversation–the dominance-hierarchy conversation. This debate over the idea of hierarchy is itself a manifestation of the natural human inclination to hierarchy.

      Reply
  8. lurcher1948

     /  May 5, 2018

    I’m confused regularly, a nearby rightwing blog called kiwiblog keeps harping back to a country called Venezuela that the previous govt used as their template but now under our PM Jacinda Ardern we should look for a country called…UTOPIA
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/05/socialism_cant_even_keep_the_lights_on.html

    Reply
    • duperez

       /  May 5, 2018

      Venezuela is their (the intelligentsia on that site) sort of ‘Reds under the Bed” scenario. It is their ‘socialism is worse than the worst fate you can ever imagine and any minuscule amount of it, or hint or suggestion of any minuscule element of it being worthwhile, means the end of the world.’
      Nightly prayers and supplication to their God, their capitalist God, likely seek horrors and dramas in Venezuela so they can be quoted as how New Zealand is going to turn out under Jacinda Ardern’s government.
      I didn’t look at the link. I already know that any smidgeon of a smidgeon to do with socialism is bad, no, worse than bad, and every atom of anything to do with capitalism is more perfect than perfect, more wonderful than wonderful. And neither has anything to do with human nature.🙃

      Reply
      • Griff

         /  May 5, 2018

        Yeah thats why country’s who have a socialist mindset like universal health care for all free education score so badly on the oecd better life index.
        http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#/11111111111
        OH WAIT THAT CANT BE RIGHT.
        The Scandinavian county’s Canada and NZ all have socialist ideas yet top the index.
        Bloody socialists tell trumps how dear they be better places to live.
        Pity Redbaiter isn’t around to educate us.
        Singapore the best goverment in the world is such a paradigm of capitalist society.
        The government only own the banks the airline many businesses and most housing.

        Reply
  9. Blazer

     /  May 5, 2018

    democracy…but not as we..knew it…

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  May 5, 2018

      Excellent doco … and its happening just across the ditch … *joke*

      Reply
  10. lurcher1948

     /  May 5, 2018

    This is why the opposition national party dont have the maori party as their “UNCLE TOM” party ANYMORE,to keep them in power,Shock horror,Maoris can read right wing blogs and understand how much the national party HATES MAORIS their lackey best friends
    Think how downtrodden the Murri slaves would be, this direct from a national supporter

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  May 5, 2018

      Poor Uncle Tom ! He wanted more than anything to be free, and said that he’d rather have a poor house, poor clothes, poor everything (in freedom) and know that it was his than have the best of everything (as a slave) and know that it belonged to another man He has been unjustifiably maligned by those who have never read the book. He was respectful to his owners, but didn’t hesitate to speak his mind when he felt that it was justified – as he did to St Clair whose last name eludes me over some issues. He said that about rather being poor when St Clair told him that he was going to be freed and Tom was delighted by the news. His ‘owner’ was a bit taken aback and asked if Tom didn’t have a good life with him, which, to be fair, he did. The writer is careful to show good slave owners as well as bad, and cuts the ground from under those who thought that this meant that slave-owning was all right. Tom’s reply to the question about his life in that house being good was the one about how he’d rather be poor in freedom, in so many words.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  May 5, 2018

        Oh, PDTs, so go and work on a sense of proportion.

        Reply
  11. PDB

     /  May 5, 2018

    Bill MacGowan has passed away aged 66. From memory he did a great job for NZ football as CEO in getting the finances right before the All Whites got beaten by Vanuatu and he walked.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/103662050/former-warriors-and-nz-football-ceo-bill-macgowan-passes-away

    Reply
  12. Kitty Catkin

     /  May 5, 2018

    I imagine that France and the UK will find Trump’s remarks to the NRA a bloody cheek, if nothing else. What business is it of his ? 414 mass shootings in the US since Trump came in, hardly a great advertisement for the US way of doing things.

    Reply
  13. Kitty Catkin

     /  May 5, 2018

    The human rights lawyer who’s calling the movement to target gangs’ lawbreaking discriminatory (or words to that effect) is pushing it.

    People tend to forget that doing Al Capone for tax evasion was not just that. The woman whose inspired idea it was realised that he would be in a cleft stick. If he paid the tax, he’d have to reveal its source, which would mean admitting to his crimes. If he didn’t, he’d be sentenced anyway for tax crime !

    Reply
  14. lurcher1948

     /  May 5, 2018

    Folks i love reading the world news in depth, there were 2 native Americans detained for been quiet and wearing teeshirts by a scared WHITE(trump supporter ME)female,on a tour of the Colorado State University campus to be students there, these students remind me of my son when he was a student with their teeshirts, Follow this incident on twitter and facebook, i think they will get free scholarships due to this white racist, THINK driving 14 hours to have it stuffed by a white racist
    https://collegian.com/
    wow college papers are good now

    Reply
  15. lurcher1948

     /  May 5, 2018

    Casual racism in America, probably the same level in…Godsown
    https://collegian.com/2018/05/hodge-check-your-biases-before-calling-police/

    Reply

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