A record of some rumourmongering

This is a record of one individual who has attempted some Gayford rumourmongering here, in a narrow focus on an issue that has been spread across various media. It doesn’t attempt to answer where the rumours came from (I think it’s likely they evolved from different sources and sort of coalesced).

‘Bill Brown’ threw a bit of a wobbly after an inevitable outcome here yesterday after blatantly ignoring clear warnings about what should not be said about the Clarke Gayford issue  – in particular promoting unsubstantiated (fake) allegations.

First, misuse of Gayford’s name as ‘Gaylord’, and indications of intent to attack him, were evident as far back as a 22 September post at Whale Oil, and on 24 October in comments on a personal attack post at Whale Oil comments suggest intent to target Gayford on ‘social media’ and on WO (two separate media):

Whale Oil has run a number of personal attack posts targeting both Gayford and Ardern since then, as recently as yesterday, but this is just some background to the wider attacks on Gayford in particular. Whale Oil have denied being involved in any way in circulating rumours that the legal letter relate to (some comments on WO have disputed this), but regardless of that they have been running a series of personal attacks on Gayford over a number of months (ample evidence of this remains public).

To ‘Bill Brown’, who has a record of interest in this issue dating back to two comments here on Your NZ on 26 November last year:

I wonder how Clarke Gaylorde is liking the DPS watching his every move ……

Also:

Lol. I was wondering about his [redacted]

That inferred allegations that I presume this week’s legal letter warned against disclosing.

Sunday 29 April 2018 (before this week’s story broke):

If the rumours are true the court appearance is already done. The DCJ is mulling the sentence options.

Unless the Police have lied in their statement this must be false. As far as I have seen this line of attack has largely been dropped since the Police statement. Also on Sunday:

Diplomatic passports a great thing when one is [redacted]

Another very specific reference, also with no evidence, and also false if the Police statement is accurate.

Thursday 3 May:

You are correct PG that it started around Oct last year – around the time [redacted]

Another specific reference.

Friday 4 May:

The Gayford story is one of the best examples of the Stresiend Effect ….. ever.

The  ‘Streisand Effect’ has also been promoted on Kiwiblog and Whale Oil (and probably elsewhere), but this has been somewhat thwarted by the media abiding by the legal letter and not publishing details of allegations. Trying to force a ‘Streisand Effect’ – provoking someone to deny (sometimes false or ridiculous) allegations to create negative publicity – is sometimes used as a dirty political tactic.

Saturday 5 May:

Clarke is [redacted]

With the charges rumours dealt to by the police statement this was a switch to another quite specific common allegation that I have seen around for a while, again with no evidence. Even if there was some basis it should be a personal matter and no business of the public – it is a form of dirty attack which appears to me to be an attempt to destabilise the Prime Minister and the Government (however I know of people who get some sort of perverse pleasure from just ‘fucking people over’).

When ‘Bill Brown’ got the inevitable and obvious outcome for blatantly ignoring warnings and requests they responded:

Like I care you dick

Some may care about what he has tried to promulgate, alongside commenters at Kiwiblog (some tried again yesterday but DPF has been moderating now), alongside the Twitter campaign and alongside the targeting of Gayford on Whale Oil, and elsewhere. One unhinged website with extreme allegations on this and other issues has been linked to from various blogs (no name or links allowed here).

There is no public evidence that this is anything other than different people independently doing something similar – targeting and attacking Gayford and Ardern in a variety of ways.

Despite some alleging National Party involvement and others  alleging that it’s an internal Labour Party hit job I have seen no evidence of either.

In the absence of evidence any allegations or rumours should at least be regarded with much skepticism, if not discounted as made up fake allegations.

However I think that an unprecedented degree of targeting of the partner of the Prime Minister has been taking place, and this is an insidious turn for the worse in New Zealand politics. There are associated issues of importance, but I think the scale and type of attacks that have taken place and continue to take place need to be confronted and strongly condemned – with some legal caution.

Allowing discussion on this is important.

However any comments that I feel are too specific, name people with allegations with no evidence, are a potential legal risk, or I otherwise think are inappropriate, may be edited or deleted. Note that sometimes comments here can be parked out of sight until I have time to properly deal with them, and I am not always readily available.

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55 Comments

  1. Gezza

     /  May 6, 2018

    Some people, like ‘Bill Brown’, are just straight out nasty pieces of work. The internet is the best thing ever to them. They can be even nastier without running the risk of getting their lights punched out like they used to at school.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  May 6, 2018

      Al has lasted over 7 decades without being ..punched in the head…amazing…

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  May 6, 2018

        Settle down Blazer – the tea lady at the Otahuhu old folks home should be around shortly.

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  May 6, 2018

          well don’t forget to have a lie down…after your…cuppa.

          Reply
      • Gezza

         /  May 6, 2018

        He was too quick for me. He ducked. In the end I let it go because he’d paid for the fish n chips.

        Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  May 6, 2018

        I’m guessing you can’t say the same, B, judging by the rubbish your head comes out with now.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 6, 2018

          Gezza, your good nature is wonderful.

          Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  May 6, 2018

            Fish and chips improves it, Kitty.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  May 6, 2018

              Only if the fish n chips are any good. You should count yourself lucky they were. Also staying on exceptionally good terms with 3 dogs gave you extra protection. And your Mrs was probably going to go for my throat, so I was hopelessly outnumbered.

  2. Traveller

     /  May 6, 2018

    Can I just say that I am not the Traveller in the screenshot from WO. I don’t comment there period and rarely read it.

    Reply
  3. chrism56

     /  May 6, 2018

    PG – I thought the Streisand effect was where it was the attempt to hide or censor some information actually brought it to the public’s attention. Getting someone to deny a salacious rumour and then that creating the publicity is a different effect. I don’t know the name of it but it was best summed up by LBJ before he became President in terms that you wouldn’t want written or even linked to here.

    Reply
    • Perhaps this is a mix here – trying to get someone to deny a rumour, and the response is to acknowledge there has been a rumour but trying to suppress details.

      I think that most people will have not noticed, barely cared or not cared about the Gayford story this week.

      Those who rely on mainstream media to publicise their hit jobs have so far largely failed.

      While I think it’s fair to question some of the methods used here by the Police and by lawyers I think that the overall effect has been fairly minor in the whole scheme of things, mainly damage controlled. The allegations didn’t deserve publicity and that was fair well minimised.

      Some are trying to stoke it along – I got attacked at Kiwiblog yesterday for challenging that, someone was demanding evidence from someone else but when asked to front up with evidence themselves to support their conspiracy theory all they could do was they resort to lame personal attacks, with help from a few opportunist shit kickers. I’d forgotten how toxic KB can be, it’s as bad as ever.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  May 6, 2018

      The Streisand effect is the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet. It is an example of psychological reactance, wherein once people are aware that some information is being kept from them, their motivation to access and spread it is increased.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

      Reply
      • I doubt that that has happened to any extent here. I think the story would have got as much attention with or without the lawyer’s letter.

        I doubt whether publishing details of the allegations would have damaged Gayford or Ardern much if at all – there has been absolutely no evidence produced, the Police statement makes a mockery of the claims, and I think that knowledge of the nature of the debunked attack would probably have resulted in more sympathy for Gayford and Ardern.

        It’s not the first time this type of allegation has been used by some of those involved. In fact it’s been attempted against me.

        Reply
  4. Gezza

     /  May 6, 2018

    I haven’t found anybody around here where I live remotely interested in the BIG rumour. Something I frankly found a little disappointing because, being nosey about such matters, I did want to know. Anyway I have found out & it is what I expected it was, & I think it’s laughable but it’s still headlining in a couple of places on stuff in the guise of being censured so they obviously think there’s still some milk to be extracted from it.

    Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  May 6, 2018

      Weathers lovely here in the hills of WGTN Gezza and sadly i couldn’t run RED as i couldn’t fit into my running shoes due to swelling,RUST never sleeps when you age

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  May 6, 2018

        Sorry to hear that Lurch. Yes it’s been a lovely sunny day near a stream here too. My only minor disappointment has been been being unable to catch on video yet any of the number of cute little sparrows who have started to do hummingbird impressions outside my kitchen window for a few seconds. By the time I’ve whipped the cellcam out & it’s ready to record, they’ve dropped to the lawn, waiting.

        Reply
  5. Blazer

     /  May 6, 2018

    I am easily convinced that the circumstantial evidence points toward anti left,National party …supporters
    .Endorsed by the W.O references.

    Reply
  6. David

     /  May 6, 2018

    Afraid I am caught in the Streisand affect, if its got to the stage that the media have gone full on protecting Ardern I had better find out what the hell the rumours are. Obviously not what I heard if there is a police denial.

    Reply
  7. Callum

     /  May 6, 2018

    There were a number of different rumours around but the police are only able to squash one very specific one, whether the general public would actually care about the others is a different matter.
    Besides the rather nasty website floating around (which I don’t think had the police related rumour?), most others seem to extend from Clarkes early career and public activities that wouldn’t be very PC in today’s world. They seem to then extend a public profile into what he must be like in his private life without any actual evidence other than a friend of a friend of a friend saw something. There was one person on Twitter claiming direct knowledge but they went very quiet when challenged.
    Hard to tell if it started out political or if Clarke stepped on a few toes and those people didn’t like his current position, that then has been picked up and made political. Suspect no real co-ordination but Whale Oil likes to think he is more important that his is and that the world revolves around him, well at least until it starts to have consequences.

    Reply
    • There is a potential huge can of worms as younger generations who have lived through and experienced far more permissive times with much wider recording of social lives online, get into positions of power that make them potential targets of dirty attacks – and especially when the partners or family of politicians get targeted. We saw it to an extent with John key’s family, but the targeting of Gayford takes it to a new and I believe insidious level.

      It would be terrible if only single puritans with blemish free lives were willing to stand for public office.

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  May 6, 2018

        Trump has a similar issue. He was elected to do a job, not to be a saint. They had Obama as a figurehead and judged him a failure. Those who elected Trump are happy with the job he is doing. The rest attack him for not being a saint.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  May 6, 2018

          No they don’t. They attack him for being a congential liar, a bully, a puerile name caller, a nepotist, capitalising via his businesses on his position as President, a flip-flopper, someone who’s every utterance has to be fact checked, some shockingly bad appointments – his former EPA head is facing 11 Federal investigations, & various other matters that make his country, its political system, its media, & representing & accelerating the general debasement of any ethics & values in its society, to the extent that even schoolchildren are having to try & rescue the place from its own depravity. And there are, imagine, some good people. But he’s not one of them.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  May 6, 2018

            Sorry I accidentally posted before editing was complete.

            Some of it bears repeating anyway. It was meant to say:

            No they don’t. They attack him for being a congential liar, a bully, a puerile name caller, a nepotist, capitalising via his businesses on his position as President, a flip-flopper, someone whose every utterance has to be fact checked, some shockingly bad appointments – his former EPA head is facing 11 Federal investigations, & various other stupid & nasty things that he does that make his country, its political system, its media, all shining examples of what a cesspool America has become.

            Also for representing & accelerating the general debasement of any ethics & values in its society, to the extent that even schoolchildren are having to try & rescue the place from its own depravity.

            And there are, I imagine, some good people among Americans. But he’s not one of them.

            Reply
            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  May 6, 2018

              tldr; so you agree with me but deny it.

            • Gezza

               /  May 6, 2018

              TL:DR

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 6, 2018

              His speech to the NRA shows that he still ‘doesn’t get it’ and probably never will !

  8. Alan Wilkinson

     /  May 6, 2018

    He does care and he is a dick.

    Other than that there is little to say except some of these people are either a mental health or a police case. It’s a concern they are hiding free in the community.

    Reply
  9. Zedd

     /  May 6, 2018

    What IS the real issue here ?
    Is it really about trying to splash some, of the ‘muck being raked’ about her partner.. onto Jacinda.. ‘Dirty Politics’ ??
    Theres an saying; ‘IF you throw enough, eventually some will stick’ (even if it is B-S)

    btw; it is sounding increasingly like ‘he said.. she said..’ & does anyone really know ‘the FACTS’ court of public opinion rules, NOT OK 😦

    Reply
  10. Blazer

     /  May 6, 2018

    the M.O is very similar to that practiced by a coterie renown for their support of the right and their arrogance and overblown idea of their own importance.
    Hint…SL,CS,CG,CO,DH,…..

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  May 6, 2018

      It seemed to me to be a few far-right zealots picking up personal stories about Gayford floating around twitterland, expanding upon them, adding some false flavour and then repackaging them for more mainstream consumption.

      Reply
      • phantom snowflake

         /  May 6, 2018

        Dear Lord! There are people who appear to be “far-right” from where you are standing? What are they; Actual Fascists??

        Reply
        • PDB

           /  May 6, 2018

          Whether it’s the far-right or the far-left like yourself – all idiots.

          Reply
          • phantom snowflake.

             /  May 6, 2018

            Face it. It’s never going to be: “Cool to be Conservative.” Always looking back to the past, enslaved to tradition, forever arguing passionlessly for the status quo. The so-called Centre-Right do NOT have the best parties, and tend to smell a bit…musty.

            Reply
  11. alloytoo

     /  May 6, 2018

    “I think that an unprecedented degree of targeting of the partner of the Prime Minister has been taking place”

    I disgree.

    This is the Labour party using a few smutty rumours and the Streisand effect to distract New Zealanders from their oil company hit job gone wrong. (Given it got people talking about profit margin vs tax take). The scary part is how it has undermined our faith in police independence.

    The MSM invasion into the lives of the Key children, that was unprecedented.

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  May 6, 2018

      flimsy ,evidence free assertions..as usual..
      ‘The MSM invasion into the lives of the Key children, that was unprecedented.’…the Key children ,especially Max ,courted media attention and loved it.

      Reply
      • Callum

         /  May 6, 2018

        So the song defended and celebrated by the left about raping his daughter was all good with you then?

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  May 6, 2018

          one isolated incident and hardly celebrated by the left…it was a provocative pose that attracted critique and attention,as it was designed to…do.

          Reply
        • alloytoo

           /  May 7, 2018

          It’s different when the left do it.

          Reply
  12. David

     /  May 6, 2018

    Found the rumours, hardly earth shattering for a young man about town and they are years old.
    I am thinking the Labour party have decided to use the rumours as a distraction from the other non performance issues they are having, well played Labour.

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  May 6, 2018

      What did he do ? Pee in an alley or something like that ?

      Reply
    • I think that Ardern and Gayford reacted to the story going public and the police making the statement.

      Some associated with Labour tried to politicise it but there is no evidence Ardern or the Party were involved in that.

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  May 6, 2018

        It might have been better to have said nothing.

        It really has become a colossal bore to those of us who didn’t hear the rumours, wouldn’t have been interested if we had, don’t know what they were and don’t want to know….

        The needle is well and truly stuck on that record.

        Reply
    • Callum

       /  May 6, 2018

      Yeah I don’t think you actually found them. The Police statement wouldn’t be needed for that. Personally I still think the police statement was a big mistake, especially when they claim to have not talked to the target of the rumours before releasing it.

      Reply
      • I think the Police shouldn’t have discussed first with the target. If they did that would really have opened them to accusations of political collusion.

        And the Police should have justified their intervention on sound principles regardless of who the actual target was.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  May 6, 2018

        I think it does need to borne in mind that although the National Party leader wotsisname has stated that he made clear his expectation that none of his MPs were to be in any way involved in this whole sordid business, & there has been no evidence that any were, there has also been no actual proof that any of them weren’t !

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  May 6, 2018

          I don’t know what the downticks are for? As far as I know nobody has produced any conclusive evidence that one or more National Party MPs were not in some way involved in this affair. They have not consented to allow all their work & comms comms devices to be inspected & all the people they had had, political, social or private contacts with to be interviewed. And so this is how rumours work. If you see my point. If you can’t see my point and are just being a wanker, please downtick this comment to confirm. Thanks.

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  May 6, 2018

            🙄 Aw drat. Sorry about the typos. You know, FiP and all that. 😕

            Reply
          • alloytoo

             /  May 7, 2018

            There also isn’t conclusive evidence that one or more Labour Party MPs were not in some way involved in this affair.

            (or NZ 1st, or Greens)

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  May 7, 2018

              Exactly. Although the folk on this site banging on about it excitedly seem to me to be National Party supporters so if there was any extra rumour spreading up for grabs about which party’s MPs or officials were running an army of goblins to push it around the bars n yacht clubs n school boards n gossip sites while maintaining plausible deniability I’d plump for that it was National, which I think I could sell fairly easily.

              Naturally, I’d expect that people who detest Labour would put plausible-sounding stories around that it was their Party or MPs. And ditto NZF & The Greens. That’s how spreading rumours works. People then believe whatever version they want to bekieve or they tell you I don’t care I’m still voting for her because National are so horrible, or just “not interested in rumours, thanks”.

              It’s pretty much all over now except for a few political tragics & sad sack journos with no other stories or not much talent, and a few assorted muck spreaders, I think.

  13. PartisanZ

     /  May 6, 2018

    At the going down of the sun … and in the morning …
    We shall remember them … the rumours …
    We shall remember them …

    Lest We Forget … the rumours …

    Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  May 6, 2018

      Just had a quick look at WO … They’re still at it …

      There could not be no better description of what they’re doing than “dirty politics” …

      Reply
  1. A record of some rumourmongering — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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