Open Forum – Thursday

24 May 2018

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97 Comments

  1. lurcher1948

     /  May 24, 2018

    Had to smile to myself,yesterday HDPA had the tempory leader of the opposition on then stated that her show had been reaching out to the PM since January but with no responce probably due to the fact HDPA isnt balanced in fact shes to the right of Hosking

    • Corky

       /  May 24, 2018

      Mikeys still recovering from the riggers of wedding duty, Lurchy. Enjoy the lull. He’ll be back on your case come Monday.

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        Riggers?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 24, 2018

          Marriage riggers – people who jack up marriages ?

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            He might have been thinking of rigour mortice?

    • PDB

       /  May 24, 2018

      Ardern knows she can’t fool HDPA – better to stick to people she can so expect lots more daycare and primary school visits from our PM.

  2. Corky

     /  May 24, 2018

    Decile school funding staying for now. Who’d have guessed? Well, me for starters. Decile funding is more lush…more socialist. Keeps those pesky ‘rich prick’ schools out of the equation. Even though those supposed rich schools have their own attending poor. Stuff them. They can fund raise with their posh galas.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104146375/Government-scraps-plans-to-replace-decile-funding-system-for-schools-with-risk-index

  3. Ray

     /  May 24, 2018

    Poor Hipkins babbling on RNZ National trying to justify the change, obviously the two school unions have woken up to financial expectations of the change and he is left trying to explain the “change”.
    The more we look at the Government’s front bench and what they are trying to achieve, the weaker it looks.
    Only the Minister of Ag who has been given a hospital pass looks vaguely competent. The rest are all blow and not much do!

    • Blazer

       /  May 24, 2018

      to be fair…some ministers like Twyford and Hipkins have herculean tasks to address.I struggle to think of any National ministers from the last administration that performed to a high ..level.

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        some ministers like Twyford and Hipkins have herculean tasks to address

        That’s probably fair comment but those two imo are really bad at trying to bullshit their way through not having any idea how to do what they want to do affordably and in the case of Twyford he’s really struggling to sell himself as capable of achieving anything but approving building projects already signed off by National.

    • Gezza

       /  May 24, 2018

      I stopped listening at 04.05. It was too painful & pointless. Guyon had him tied up in knots & all Hipkins was spouting was just babble and bullshit.

  4. Corky

     /  May 24, 2018

    Couldn’t believe my ears yesterday. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. A councillor was found guilty of sexually rubbing himself against a female staff member. Apparently she said she felt a good 4 to 5 inches. The councillor was medically examined to see if that was a correct assumption.

    What? Lol?

    • Blazer

       /  May 24, 2018

      he said he rubbed her up the wrong way…no need to rub it..in..Corky.

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  May 24, 2018

    A seven year sentence seems inadequate for this PoS:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12056934

  6. sorethumb

     /  May 24, 2018

    Any more new on the Green MP sending hate email to the frail Jewish lady?

    • sorethumb

       /  May 24, 2018

      Maybe Joe Blogs could sniff around?

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        Corky might be your best bet there.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 24, 2018

          Hardly, with his views.

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            Seems to be a keen follower of the whale who shills for Bibi & co. If there’s been any update on that site, he’d know.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 24, 2018

              Yes, but he doesn’t seem to be a fan of anything or anyone Jewish.

    • sorethumb

       /  May 24, 2018

      note how she says “and I am a fifth generation New Zealander”: having a go at WOC Golriz?

      • sorethumb

         /  May 24, 2018

        “Sooty” Ghahraman (woman of colour – Resene)

  7. Gezza

     /  May 24, 2018

    Question Time in 5 minutes. If I can stay awake I might have a watch and see if there are any ramifications from yesterday’s shenanigans.

    • Gezza

       /  May 24, 2018

      Question 4 has really blown up. Paula Bennett been told to leave the Chamber.

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        This was preceded by Speaker Trev threatening to name David Bennett for not immediately withdrawing and apologising. There have been numerous points of order querying what Trevor’s rulings are for and the whole session became a battle.

        • Gezza

           /  May 24, 2018

          Now Question 5 is turning into a shambles as Trev has asked someone else to withdraw and apologise. Points of order all over the show.

        • Gezza

           /  May 24, 2018

          Very strange. Video clips of questions were being posted within about 15 minutes.

          Questions 1, 2 and 3 went up but all of a sudden they have stopped being posted?

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            Eg
            Question 1 posted 40 minutes ago
            Question 2 posted 37 minutes ago
            Question 3 posted 27 minutes ago

            Question 4 – ??
            3.01 pm

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        16 minutes ago

        • PDB

           /  May 24, 2018

          Trevs losing it………….and he only has himself to blame.

          If he had simply done his job properly yesterday in insisting that Ardern answer a fairly simple, straight-forward question regarding yet another broken Labour party election promise this all wouldn’t have happened.

          If he hadn’t been so certain he heard a National party make a sexist comment about Ardern and confirmed that to the MSM when no one else heard the offensive words at the time and later when listening to the tapes then again this wouldn’t be an issue.

          This whataboutism regarding what Key did etc is simply nonsense as when Mallard was appointed he said he would clean up question-time – he hasn’t, govt officials are avoiding answering the simplest of questions and behavior on both sides of the house is no better (if not worse).

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  May 24, 2018

            Fair play to Jami-Lee Ross for not changing that naff name because he respects his parents who gave it to him. I’d have been changing it as soon as I was old enough.

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            It was a main item on 1ewes at 6. The presentation included video of the incident from the Press Gallery camera, interviews in the lobby with Big Gerry and smaller Paula, a quick shot of Speaker Trev scurry by saying he wasn’t going to discuss it and ended with two clips of MP Trev throwing paddies at the Speaker & getting the boot from the Chamber.

            • Gezza

               /  May 24, 2018

              Jess Mutch made the point that this could be heading to National eventually proposing a vote of no confidence in The Speaker but that any such vote would be blocked by the government and fail.

              I don’t think the red hair colour suits her. It always looks cheap and artificial. The blonde dye suited her better. But I just mention that in passing because I don’t want to be seen as being sexist or shallow.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 24, 2018

              As if you ever could 😀 😀 😀

  8. Blazer

     /  May 24, 2018

    the B Team,contrived bluster,belligerence and b/s.2 Bennetts,Brownlee and Bridges discipline… lacking.
    9 years of arrogance in Govt ,and attempting the same..in opposition.

    • PDB

       /  May 24, 2018

      Brownlee seems on top of question time and is making Trev look silly.

      When the govt is not hiding MPs from question time themselves by not fronting they are having Mallard run interference for them.

      Just about all MP’s are guilty of silly, petty and childish behavior in parliament. Question time has been a joke in this country for decades and so it continues.

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        That is indeed the problem. I haven’t watched Parliament in other jurisdictions but I’d be surprised to see the UK or Canada or even Oz tolerate the childishness of ours.

        The fact there are so many Speaker’s rulings being quoted and made all the time to me is an indication of just how poor it is – with Speakers constantly looking for or inventing ways they can favour the government or ensure they escape criticism themselves. Hopeless.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 24, 2018

          I could well imagine it, These people are under great stress and work very long hours.

          The Japanese ones have had punch-ups.

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            Well, so have we. But interestingly enuf the punch up involved our Speaker.

  9. PDB

     /  May 24, 2018

    This story is interesting;

    Kiwiblog: “Matthew Hooton writes:

    For those asking, yes, Todd Scott filed a Statement of Claim against me in the High Court today. He alleges that it was negligent for me to have sent NBR the column I did about Steven Joyce. Consequently, despite the column having been published in the NBR after being read and subedited by several NBR staff including editor Duncan Bridgeman, Todd says I should have to pay some or all NBR’s costs and any losses it suffers from Mr Joyce’s litigation. I understand these are now many tens of thousands of dollars.”

    Surely some sort of sad joke if Hooton ends up having to pay the publisher damages for an article of his they decided to publish? If that does indeed happen then a whole legal can of worms is opened.

    • sorethumb

       /  May 24, 2018

      I like Hooten

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        Good for you.
        What do you think of Hooton?

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  May 24, 2018

      Yes, it will be interesting to see where that one goes. I can’t see Scott dodging publisher’s responsibility. That’s why they employ lawyers, not to sue their journalists and columnists.

      Hooten’s column was nasty and stupid. His editor should.have pulled it.

  10. lurcher1948

     /  May 24, 2018

    Live stream

    • sorethumb

       /  May 24, 2018

      that lava would be heavy.

      • Gezza

         /  May 24, 2018

        Molten rock. Sure would be. Huge chunks can get blasted for considerable distance & it’s almost impossible to stop it advancing. Icelanders managed to divert a flow with tons of seawater poured onto the front of a lava flow once, but this eruption’s so persistent & widespread & relentless where the vents have opened up it’s not an option. Bye-bye anything in its way.

  11. High Flying Duck

     /  May 24, 2018

    And Twyford is in more trouble…

    BREAKING NEWS:
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford offers to resign for speaking on phone after plane doors closed

    (Stuff)

    • Gezza

       /  May 24, 2018

      Minister Phil Twyford apologies for Civil Aviation breach
      Transport Minister Phil Twyford – offered his resignation

      By Tracey Watkins (batted her eyelids at John Key in a cafe interview, btw)

      Transport Minister Phil Twyford says he offered his resignation to the prime minister for making a phone call on a domestic flight after the air craft doors had shut in preparation for take off.

      In a statement, Twyford said the prime minister had declined his offer but transferred his responsibility for the Civil Aviation Authority to associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter.

      Twyford said he “apologises unreservedly” for the mistake.

      “I recognise that I made the call when I shouldn’t have. This is inappropriate for anyone, but particularly inappropriate for me as Transport Minister.

      “I have referred the matter to the Civil Aviation Authority who will follow whatever processes they deem appropriate,” Phil Twyford said.

      More soon….

      • High Flying Duck

         /  May 24, 2018

        HDPA on ZB Just now…

        It took Gerry Brownlee 6 years to get arrogant enough to flout aviation laws. Twyford took 6 months.

        • Gezza

           /  May 24, 2018

          😀 😀 😀

        • Gezza

           /  May 24, 2018

          1ewes at 6 might be interesting tonite.

          • High Flying Duck

             /  May 24, 2018

            Nah – it’s an embarrassment but everyone will move on pretty quickly from this one.

            • Gezza

               /  May 24, 2018

              Breaking – Item 1 – on 1ewes. Mentioned Judith Collins uncovered the scandal, that it’s a a big deal and a major embarrassment for Twyford as he’s the Minister of Transport with responsibility for the Civil Aviation, & that Ardern has stripped him of responsibility for that portfolio.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  May 24, 2018

              That covers it pretty well. And that will be the end of it.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 24, 2018

              It’s quite different to Gerry Brownlee queue-jumping….aren’t cellphones dangerous on planes ? They used to be.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  May 24, 2018

              En mass they might be but precious little evidence they are. Less so when sitting on the Tarmac. But the great rule god must be obeyed and ritual sacrifices offered. Especially by the rule makers – always schadenfreude.

        • Blazer

           /  May 24, 2018

          a rather stupid observation by HDPA…how long did it take for Bennett to be kicked out of Parliament as opposed to..Mallard.?

          • Gezza

             /  May 24, 2018

            I just make the point here that neither of them was kicked out of Parliament, just the debating chamber for a day. The media sometimes make this errant claim as well.

        • Blazer

           /  May 24, 2018

          Barger Brownlees indescretion was …far worse.

          • High Flying Duck

             /  May 24, 2018

            He walked through a door Blazer, with a guard standing there.

  12. Gezza

     /  May 24, 2018

    Budget debate – 2 new MPs for comparison

  13. lurcher1948

     /  May 24, 2018

    And Labour/National keyboard warriors we don’t know how lucky we are

  14. Kitty Catkin

     /  May 24, 2018

    The nurses are looking a bit greedy about their pay rises, and may lose sympathy.

  15. Blazer

     /  May 24, 2018

    Our wonderful nurses and medical staff deserve every bit of what they are asking for…parity with teachers?…unbelievable,they are worth more.

  16. PartisanZ

     /  May 24, 2018

    Gee whizz! Nothing about Jordan Peterson … ?

    ‘Jordan Peterson, Custodian of the Patriarchy’

    “He says there’s a crisis in masculinity. Why won’t women — all these wives and witches — just behave?”

    Thank you Nellie Bowles.

    But wait … There’s more …

    https://jezebel.com/the-new-york-times-enters-the-icy-domain-of-jordan-pete-1826181011

    Thank you Whitney Kimball.

    And finally …

    https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/may/23/jordan-peterson-public-intellectual-isnt-clever-violent-men-monogamy

    “scientific facts [according to Peterson] show that “socially enforced monogamous conventions decrease male violence”.

    How any of this explains his theory that feminine is chaos and masculine is order was left unexplored. So too were certain other scientific facts, such as that up to 70% of women globally have been abused by their partner, and two women a week in England and Wales alone are killed by former partners.

    No, we’re just told we should cure violent men with our magical vaginas, and if we fail to do so, our vaginas were presumably insufficiently magical.”

    Thank you Tamsin.

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  May 24, 2018
      • PartisanZ

         /  May 24, 2018

        Cool … “aren’t hearing the same Jordan Peterson” … Marvellous Alan!

        I’ll use that argument next time we’re discussing Te Tiriti o Waitangi …

        Maori and Pakeha aren’t ‘hearing’ (or understanding) the same Treaty …

        So easy … eh?

        But wait there’s more … Here’s the best. Really well researched and written –

        https://newrepublic.com/article/148473/jordan-petersons-tired-old-myths

        “Jung, Campbell, and Eliade believed that mythology contained the core truths of human culture, and shared an affinity for reactionary politics. They flirted to some degree with far-right politics in the 1930s. Eliade had the most extensive ties, being a supporter of the Iron Guard in his native Romania. Campbell was an anti-Semite and Jung was sympathetic to the fascist dictatorships of Francisco Franco and Benito Mussolini. After the age of fascism ended, the three men became more conventional conservatives.

        It was no accident that these leading mythologists were men of the political right. They were trying to use comparative mythology to replace natural theology (which had been undermined by the rise of science). Showing that there was a common set of myths underlying all human cultures was a way of shoring up the claims of tradition, which were under siege by political challenges from the left and by social changes fostered by modernity.”

        Also – ‘The rise of Patreon – the website that makes Jordan Peterson $80k a month’

        https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/14/patreon-rise-jordan-peterson-online-membership

        I suppose we don’t hear the same Don Brash either? Poor misunderstood old racist prick that he is.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  May 24, 2018

          You seem pretty hysterical yourself.

          • PartisanZ

             /  May 24, 2018

            You mistake healthy passion for hysteria … purposely of course …

            You obviously haven’t read the new republic article. It is really good.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  May 24, 2018

              I did read it. Seemed like an intellectual wank really. I think Peterson is connecting with people on a different level entirely.

            • PartisanZ

               /  May 25, 2018

              He would no doubt agree … citing “mythological archetypes” or some such “intellectual wanking” …

              The “different level entirely” he’s exploiting is the same one used by all the dictators – communist totalitarian or fascist – which is “You, the ordinary people (he uses the word ‘Sheeple’ I believe?) … your world is in danger … it is threatened from within by this minority group [name preferred minority here ______ ] …

              … and here’s an emotive and intellectually bamboozling explanation why!

        • sorethumb

           /  May 24, 2018

          Is kaupapa Maori research methodology credible?
          http://skeptics.nz/journal/issues/81/is-kaupapa-maori-research-methodology-credible
          Can traditional Maori knowledge be considered scientific?
          http://skeptics.nz/journal/issues/32/maori-science

          • sorethumb

             /  May 24, 2018

            Everything peterson says chips away at the far left’s idiotology

            • sorethumb

               /  May 24, 2018

              What a honey!

            • Gezza

               /  May 24, 2018

              Peterson’s really done his best work. Now he’s slipped into routinely building complicated-sounding straw men to make himself sound intellectual & pointlessly demolishing them to prove to himself & an audience of not particularly bright & desperately lost young male no-hopers that he is.

              He should’ve just stuck with some of the main points that need an airing – such as political correctness having reached the point where it was being used to shut down free speech discussing valid points of view that others just don’t like.

              But it also turns out he’s a whiny little snowflake when some black intellectual tells him something about himself that he doesn’t want to hear. So in my eyes he’s a bit of a poseur really.

          • PartisanZ

             /  May 24, 2018

            Since we’re discussion Jordan Peterson, whose “ideologies” are founded on ‘mythology’ and psychology, why would we divert and obfuscate, and start talking about so-called ‘science’?

            But one can ask exactly the same question of science: Can traditional scientific ‘knowledge’ be considered scientific?

            Because wherever there’s a subjective person – namely a human being or ‘scientist’ – attempting to be objective, they will inevitably be subjective to some degree or other … This is in the nature of being a subjective being …

            Not to say lots of good things haven’t come out of scientific method, exploration, investigation and experimentation … but it turns out to be a two-edged sword just like theology … Church doctrines inimical to life … and just like Peterson’s mythology …

            Example: So-called ‘pure’ science has translated into pharmaceuticals, Right, some of which are killing people in droves and which people are turning away from in droves …

            Wholistic world views are being incorporated into science as we speak, like the benefits of the whole plant rather than synthesized chemicals … Maori rongoa practices have considerable relevance to this …

            I don’t want to talk about this crap with you sorethumb, you are just trying to divert onto your racial soapbox. I just came on to say “Bye Bye Jordan!”

            • sorethumb

               /  May 24, 2018

              Attn PartisonZ. An example of postmodern discursives anihilated by the pedaxic.

              In the works of Spelling, a predominant concept is the concept of capitalist consciousness. If subdialectic theory holds, we have to choose between precultural dematerialism and cultural narrative.

              If one examines postconstructivist textual theory, one is faced with a
              choice: either accept subdialectic theory or conclude that reality serves to
              marginalize minorities, given that textual discourse is invalid. It could be
              said that the premise of subcultural situationism implies that the significance of the artist is deconstruction. Marx suggests the use of subdialectic theory to attack sexism.

              In the works of Spelling, a predominant concept is the distinction between
              without and within. Thus, Finnis[1] suggests that we have to
              choose between precultural dematerialism and Debordist situation. The
              characteristic theme of the works of Spelling is the absurdity of
              neopatriarchial culture.

              It could be said that several discourses concerning a self-referential
              totality may be revealed. Bataille uses the term ‘subdialectic theory’ to
              denote the paradigm, and eventually the stasis, of cultural class.

            • sorethumb

               /  May 24, 2018

              Jordan Peterson is being critiqued on a couple of fronts but it is coming from atheists not from postmodernists he has run over them in his hummer and is off down the road with the stereo on full listening to Wagner.

            • PartisanZ

               /  May 24, 2018

              OMG, you actually believe there’s an objective ‘truth’ to this shite!

              You appear to believe it’s an EITHER/OR question with an absolute answer …

              Is that the best you and Mr Google could come up with?

              Who gives a fuck about Spelling … whoever he is? … or subdialectic theory … ? What the fuck!? How about a few more of your own words?

              It must be God-awful feeling so threatened all the time?

            • PartisanZ

               /  May 24, 2018

              Three are women. One is a man.

              Who gives a fuck what kind of -ists they are?

              They’ve demolished him!

    • Corky

       /  May 24, 2018

      I think it’s safe to say the empire is striking back.

      • PartisanZ

         /  May 24, 2018

        Peterson represents the Empire trying desperately to strike back …

        • Corky

           /  May 24, 2018

          Well, that depends on what side of the coin you always see.

          • PartisanZ

             /  May 24, 2018

            A fine example of the Left and Right not seeing the same … TOPIC even … let alone Jordan Peterson … or Te Tiriti o Waitangi …

            Your ‘idea’ that the Right-Wing war-mongering world, driven by money and violence, has been taken over by the Left is so utterly ludicrous as to inspire nothing but derision and disbelief …

            • Corky

               /  May 25, 2018

              ”Your ‘idea’ that the Right-Wing war-mongering world, driven by money and violence, has been taken over by the Left is so utterly ludicrous as to inspire nothing but derision and disbelief …”

              Well, that’s not our perception. We see the Left as an impediment to our goals…not a take over. However, I could argue a case for the Left takeover in certain sectors of society. Education and bureaucracy for example.

            • PartisanZ

               /  May 25, 2018

              “An impediment to our goals …”

              Are you kidding me!? Who is “our” …? Who is your we or us?

              Our goals!? Like what …?

              Complete “freedom of the individual” to exploit any aspect of the environment, human, animal and plant, the mineral wealth of the soil, the soil itself … for nefarious personal greed and demented acquisitiveness …

  17. Alan Wilkinson

     /  May 24, 2018

    More to the Woody Allen saga than met the eye. I always thought Mia Farrow was pretty weird:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/24/woody-allens-son-defends-accuses-mother-mia-farrow-abuse/