Open Forum – Sunday

27 May 2018

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53 Comments

  1. Corky

     /  May 27, 2018

    [Deleted] Maybe he needs some Nutritional Yeast with its huge B-Vitamin profile. Apparently it’s a mainstay for vegetarians and other people like me who eat weird stuff.

    https://draxe.com/nutritional-yeast/

    • lurcher1948

       /  May 27, 2018

      I don’t mind Corky using my name,I’m a big boy now PG

      • He knows that he shouldn’t be targeting others here with comments – as should you.

        • lurcher1948

           /  May 27, 2018

          PG if i refer to a Corkys post, is C acceptable??? …C means Corky

          • You are encouraged to refer to the content and address that rather than who wrote it.

          • Gezza

             /  May 27, 2018

            Just don’t refer to c if you mean C because then you’ll probably end up getting an eyeful from Conspiratoor for attributing whatever C said to c.

  2. lurcher1948

     /  May 27, 2018

    Time for Gerry to retire and as a woodwork teacher pick up a nail gun, pies at smoko time
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/103938305/alice-snedden-stupid-little-girl-how-desperate-are-you

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  May 27, 2018

      The fallacy in this silly woman’s comment is right here:
      It’s attempting to belittle the Prime Minister by infantilising her because she’s a woman.

      No it isn’t. It’s calling her a girl because she is female. If she was male it would have called her a boy. If indeed it was ever said it was criticising her for acting immaturely. Gender has nothing to do with it. Except that the PC mob feel themselves to be entitled to be sexist whenever they like, just as they are also entitled to be racists.

      • Grimm

         /  May 27, 2018

        How quickly they have forgotten nine years of relentless personal attacks against a Prime Minister.

        That aside, if the comment was made, and let’s face it, it probably was, then it’s most definitely sexist.

        • lurcher1948

           /  May 27, 2018

          I’m sure Sir Key feels hurt working for an Australian bank ripping New Zealanders off

          • Grimm

             /  May 27, 2018

            Is that the bank that employs 10,000 kiwis Lurch?

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  May 27, 2018

        Except it’s calling her a “stupid little girl” … which is similar to calling you a “stupid little boy”.

        BTW I constantly applaud you Alan for your insightful comments about womanhood. It’s as if you think you know what you’re talking about.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  May 27, 2018

          If you called me a stupid little boy it would not be sexist would it? Or if you called me a stupid little man?

          What on earth makes recognising gender innately sexist? Nothing.

          These remarks are insulting but not sexist.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  May 27, 2018

          I haven’t made any comments about womanhood here. They have been about language. Not that I regard your judgement of most anything as other than appalling.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  May 27, 2018

        Whether a mature National MP called Ardern a “stupid little girl” or not, they have highlighted their maturity by glorying in the aftermath.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12058350

        • NOEL

           /  May 27, 2018

          If National believed they had a case of bias all they needed to do was introduce a motion of censure on the Speaker. That they didn’t says it all.

          • Grimm

             /  May 27, 2018

            What would that achieve?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 27, 2018

              Much ado about a comment which, assuming that it was made at all, would have been a throwaway one made without having all this meaning intended.

              If someone called Jami-Lee Ross a silly little boy, would there be all this hoohah ?

              There couldn’t have been more fuss made if the supposed remark had been a gross obscenity.

  3. David

     /  May 27, 2018

    Trump tweets “Looks like OPEC is at it again. With record amounts of Oil all over the place, including the fully loaded ships at sea, Oil prices are artificially Very High! No good and will not be accepted!”
    Oil prices drop 3 %, Saudi Arabia announce they are no longer going to curb production and Russia announces OPEC will ease their production restrictions. God bless you Mr Trump someone needs to look after the less well off parts of society regressively hard hit with rising fuel costs.
    Ardern should flick him a note of thanks to what with her swingeing taxes about to hit and NZ tourism benefiting from reasonably cheap international air fares.

  4. sorethumb

     /  May 27, 2018

    Dr Heather Came: Stopping Institutional Racism Part one

    This is my family, ….. As with many Pakeha families we are highly competitive people . Mad. We’re mad keen on our sport. But the blessings my family have, my family (my pakeha family) taught me about fair play. So it matters that you win, but it matters more,how you play the game. And it would be a great disgrace to if you played badly or cheated and did something wrong. The blessings for that useful bit , there’s other more complex bits for being a decendant of one of the colonisers. And as in the madness of contemporoary pakeha style, my God daughter is Ngapui , my nieces and nephews are Ngati Whatua and Ngati Maniopoto and my new Grand children (we’re newly weds) are Ngati Kahuninu so that is the face of contemporary Pakeha families in New Zealand. That love is changing the face of some of the race relations in this country. Within the next 20 years, we’ll be much browner than we are now and the place of Pakeha will be displaced by new New Zealanders and the growing Maori and Pacifica population but thats a long wait and we’re wanting action faster than that.

    Really. humans are ethnocentric by nature.
    Demography matters. Will immigration make Maori better off?

    • sorethumb

       /  May 27, 2018

      “we did genocide in NZ. , don’t believe the folk who said we didn’t”

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  May 27, 2018

        She might do Pakeha people the courtesy of giving them a capital letter, and realise that god-daughter doesn’t have one.

        Who on earth is interested in her family except themselves ? I don’t know these people and never will.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  May 27, 2018

          She also seems to assume that racism is always white.

        • sorethumb

           /  May 27, 2018

          I included that bit because her family are fair (unlike the other colonists who don’t agree to the list of unknowns the treaty requires)

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  May 28, 2018

            The Maori canoeists were colonisers, and, unlike their Pakeha counterparts, set out to eliminate the Moriori who were already here.

      • Corky

         /  May 27, 2018

        Ngati Kahuninu?

    • Corky

       /  May 27, 2018

      Regards New Zealand becoming browner: she is stating nothing switched on New Zealanders have known for the past thirty years.

      While many find that cool. It terrifies me. Just ask South Africans.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  May 27, 2018

        Black South Africans were black all along. It’s not the same thing at all. The situation there was nothing like the situation here. It’s a meaningless comparison.

        I don’t find it terrifying to go to the supermarket and see non-white people in there !

        • Corky

           /  May 27, 2018

          ”Black South Africans were black all along.”

          Polynesians have always been brown . Such comparisons have nothing to do with the debate. The amount of political control Black SA have, and Polynesians, along with immigrants will have is the issue.

          I have compared the third world mentality of Black SA with the third world mentality of collective Polynesia and suggest New Zealand may move towards a similar political and economic situation South Africa now finds itself in should Europeans lose their dominate control of New Zealand..

          ”I don’t find it terrifying to go to the supermarket and see non-white people in there ”

          Neither do I. It’s not germane to the debate.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  May 27, 2018

            You said that you are terrified that the country is becoming browner, so it is indeed germane to the issue if you see brown people in places.

      • Gezza

         /  May 27, 2018

        I asked a South African I know if the country becoming browner terrifies you & she didn’t have a clue who you even were. 😕

        • Corky

           /  May 27, 2018

          Tell her to imagine Maoris with black faces telling her what to do. That should clear her sinuses and focus the memory.😁

          • Gezza

             /  May 27, 2018

            I did. She still has no idea who you are or why you suggested asking a South African if the country becoming browner terrifies you. She asked if you were mentally stable? I said as far as I know. There might be some misunderstanding.

          • Gezza

             /  May 27, 2018

            But while I don’t like to pass up an opportunity to exploit an ambiguity in what you said, I do understand the point you were making – even if you have a tendency to always want to make it sound purely racist for some reason.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 27, 2018

              I won’t ask a South African who’s married to a local man what she thinks. I don’t want her to wonder what she’s come to,

            • Corky

               /  May 27, 2018

              I think I’ll move on now.

      • PartisanZ

         /  May 27, 2018

        From 1946 – 1990 the White population of South Africa declined from 20% to 13% while the Black population increased from 68.6% to 76% during the same time period …

        One might possibly argue that the great majority of South Africans were worse off under Apartheid …?

        Europeans should lose their dominant control of Aotearoa New Zealand … but for substantively but by no means entirely different reasons than in South Africa …

        As Miss Kitty says, its a meaningless and nonsensical comparison.

  5. Conspiratoor

     /  May 27, 2018

    Susan devoy, devastated, vindicated and …gone.

    Does anyone know what she achieved?

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/27-05-2018/devoy-rebuke/

    • Gezza

       /  May 27, 2018

      A bloody good salary while it lasted.

    • Corky

       /  May 27, 2018

      She was excellent blog fodder.

    • Blazer

       /  May 27, 2018

      world class squash player..that is..undeniable.

  6. Corky

     /  May 27, 2018

    It’s great being one of the chronically offended. You don’t have to argue your case…and if you do and are losing…no problem, you just cry racism. sexism or lies.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/05/harcourts-staff-wear-blackface-to-national-conference.html

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  May 27, 2018

      Most people, I imagine, find blackface unacceptable nowadays, we are past the stage where things like The Black and White Minstrel Show are seen as amusing. Blackface will always be tainted with the gross mockery of things like that and the old blackface shows in the US.

      But how anyone could see a model being ‘bronzed’ as blackface is beyond me. She wasn’t even as dark as models in ads for self-tanning products and nobody calls those blackface.

      But real blackface is decidedly poor taste. At least they didn’t have big red lips and white circles around their eyes.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  May 27, 2018

        Fancy 3 people finding blackface acceptable. Too, too bizarre.

        • Alan Wilkinson

           /  May 27, 2018

          Surely makeup is neutral until words or actions give it meaning? An actor can dress as a woman or a native of any race, women can wear fake tans or die their hair without being regarded automatically as racist.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  May 27, 2018

            It depends upon the context. The old blackface was making black people look stupid and ridiculous. There is a scene in one of the Little House books where Pa and others dress up in blackface, with white eyes and big red mouths and put on a show which sounds blatantly racist, making the supposed blacks into clowns (not the circus type) . I bet that none of the saccharine dramatisations have that in it – or Ma saying that the old good Indian was a dead one, or words to that effect. She often says that she hates Indians.

            Hairdye and fake tan are hardly in the same league as what’s understood by blackface. How can they be ? The person’s not doing it to mock dark skinned people any more than Asians who dye their hair are mocking light-skinned ones. That’s a specious analogy,Tanning is something that occurs in nature, Blackface is much more than a tan, it’s making up with jet black makeup. Nobody would go jet black in the sun. Nobody would think that the Black and White Minstrels had spent too long in the tanning booth 😀

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 27, 2018

              People bring up Othello, but he needn’t be played as a black man, given that he could well not have been black in the first place. He was a Moor and was likely to have been olive skinned like an Arab,

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  May 27, 2018

              They were apparently made up as Cameroon games competitors, not as blackface minstrels.

            • Gezza

               /  May 27, 2018

              I don’t think there’s anything particularly racist about this. What they did was meant to be funny – a third of the Cameroon Commonwealth Games team going MIA in Oz does make me grin. I doubt there was anything more to it than that. If they’d been Greeks or Scottish I wonder if it would’ve caused such a stir.

              Personally if I’d been one of them discussing the idea I’d have said “Nah, don’t, it could get completely misconstrued as racially offensive”. Dress up as pukekos or something – probably safer.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  May 27, 2018

              I know that they were meant to be Cameroon athletes, not The Black and White Minstrel Show, but it wasn’t very funny or clever.

  7. Kitty Catkin

     /  May 27, 2018

    I wonder how the zero waste brigade are doing it without cheating.

    What do they do with things that can’t be reused or recycled ? When shoes wear out, they can’t be, nor can some clothes, or biros or broken glass and china, or dead appliances….what can be done with a dead lighbulb or empty felt pen ? Or worn-out socks ?

    If they eat meat, what about the bones and fat ? Or those bloodsoaked pad things that the meat sits on (Ughhhhhhhh) ?

    When I bust a lamp, I took the working parts and made a hanging light with them, but nothing could be done with the broken body part. What do these people do when they drop things and break them, as we all do ?

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  May 27, 2018

      PDT block ticking again. No suggestions made, of course.

  8. sorethumb

     /  May 27, 2018

    my point in viewing this is to show that the anti-racist ideology of ACORD and other groups in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s also brought about their demise demographically and they never intended that NZ stay bicultural. Instead it is all about Pakeha racism, As demonstrated by Paul Spoonley
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/ethnic-and-religious-intolerance
    Note how black life was for Maori in 20th Century NZ. There is an unwritten text that pakea behaviour is an outlier rather than normal human ethnocentrism which forms a cohesive nation state.