Three strikes to be struck out in two weeks

The three strikes law will be repealed in two weeks, according to Newshub.

This was signalled last November: Justice Minister Andrew Little to repeal three strikes law

“Three strikes – that thing’s gone. You do get this picture of things that are quite cosmetic or things that were big things that can be unpicked pretty much straight away.”

“After eight years of being in effect it hasn’t made a blind bit of difference to serious offending rates which continue to climb,” he says. We have one of the fastest growing prison populations in the Western world. Simply put, it’s not working. We have to find a better way to reduce offending and keep communities safer.”

Today: Govt to repeal three strikes law in two weeks

The three strikes law will be repealed in two weeks, and Justice Minister will also push for sentences shorter than two years to be served as home detention.

The Government is preparing to soften bail, sentencing and parole laws, and Newshub can reveal it’s already discussing how to reassure the public in the event of a high-profile crime.

The Government documents also highlight the extent of the prison overcrowding crisis, saying if big improvements aren’t made in a year, there will be “a failure of the prison system.”

At the next Cabinet meeting in twelve days the Justice Minister will seek approval to repeal three strikes, and push for shorter sentences to be served on home detention.

Andrew Little:

“Repeal of the three strikes, because I think there’s an acceptance now that actually it just doesn’t work.

“If you have a sentence of two years or less you’re at the lower end of the offending, you might have offended before but you’re at the lower end. We can still do something with you. So it’s better that you’re out in the community.

Tova O’Brien:

He’s also planning to revive the last Labour Government’s sentencing council which National scrapped. It provides guidance to judges to prevent tougher sentences.

And people bailed on electronic monitoring will be able to count their bail time as part of their sentence.

Little:

“We’ve had thirty years of this, the only way to deal with crime, get tough on crime, get really hard, lock them up for longer.

Actually it’s not working.

He is also talking about a transition type prison in which prisoners with good records nearing the end of their sentences can live in a flat-like facility where they shop and cook for themselves.

“All it could take though is one person on bail murdering someone to unravel your reforms”. Little:

“Yeah and look, that’s always a possibility. It’s a possibility right now. We know there are people on bail who are offending right now.”

The Government is aware that their changes will need to be seen to be an improvement. They plan on preparing PR strategies for when things go wrong, as they inevitably will with some prisoners or people on bail.

 

 

 

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50 Comments

  1. Kitty Catkin

     /  May 30, 2018

    Well, we knew that it was coming.

    I like the home detention idea, but am dubious about ‘softening bail’.

    Reply
  2. Corky

     /  May 30, 2018

    Well, if it’s not working why repeal it? Is it hurting anyone. Again we have another woolly socialist who believes we can emulate a European style justice system. We can’t because of our large uneducated underclass.

    Europe is finding that out with their increasing Muslim prison population. You can’t rehabilitate these people, as the latest terror attack has shown

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  May 30, 2018

      you talk absolute nonsense at times.Human nature never changes…here or in Europe.

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  May 30, 2018

        But European justice isn’t working for Muslims. Why? Because they are uneducated. That means you can’t appeal to reason. Nor can these prisoners self reflect. We have a similar situation in NZ were the light of reason doesn’t switch on until they are in their forties.

        There’s a 20/20 programme tomorrow on certain European prisons that look like 5 Star Hotels were the prisoners have keys to their own cell doors.

        As usual, Blazer, your keyboard taps before your brain engages.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  May 30, 2018

          This Belgian Islamic terrorist attack – from what I read last night/early morning – another one that got radicalised in prison.

          Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  May 30, 2018

      @Corky – “Well, if it’s not working why repeal it?”

      Same reason you’d repeal capital punishment if it wasn’t working … or a speed limit for horses on the motorway …

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  May 30, 2018

        Yeah, but capital punishment worked. People were hanged. According to Andy no one has been punished with the three strike law.It’s impotent.

        Reply
        • Corky

           /  May 30, 2018

          Or is it?

          Reply
          • Gezza

             /  May 30, 2018

            I watched Sorethumb’s video clip of Tony Robinson at the Oxford Union last night,. Then I went and found the Q&A session that followed it. I’ve watched a couple of other videos of his.

            I haven’t seen or read enuf to understand yet where he’s really at currently, and his following includes far right white supremacists – but I think there’s plenty of evidence that most of what he said at the Oxford Union is not wrong – & I can see where he’s coming from – both there and in wanting to talk about the case of the rapist groomers currently before the Court that’s got him locked up.

            Although doing that – naming them all – when the case is before the Court and it could prejudice the outcome of their trial – was so bloody stupid that’s why I can’t make my mind up about him.

            Reply
            • I think he is just an ordinary bloke who sees what he sees, and is sufficiently disturbed by it to stick his head above the parapet and ask what is going on. He has a natural expectation that while the people should observe the letter of the law, the State should observe its spirit.

              The State clearly does not observe its spirit when there is a risk of the quiescent public seeing what Robinson sees; and it does not even observe its letter when Muslim rapists are in the dock. Everyone who wants a free and civil future for their children, and the same laws for everyone, should be demanding to know why.

              The same week that Robinson is imprisoned within hours on very dubious grounds, Anjem Choudary – the vile, Islamic hate-peddling ISIS supporter who publicly calls for the killing of all Britons unless they submit to Islam – and who was only jailed after the State spent twenty years prevaricating – is released early. It is not hard to draw from that similar conclusions to those of Tommy Robinson, who grew up in Luton surrounded by Choudary fellow-travellers.

              The people of Britain should be extremely concerned about the implications of this. To borrow from Pastor Niemoller’s famous poem about another fascist takeover: “First they came for Tommy Robinson, and I did nothing … Then they came for me.”

          • Gezza

             /  May 30, 2018

            10 months seems manifestly excessive.

            Reply
  3. Trevors_Elbow

     /  May 30, 2018

    First non-prisoner who should have been locked away under 3 Strikes, but Little’s repealing of the law means they are walking the streets, …rapes, murders then its on Little’s head. And it will be political hell.

    This is an incredibly risky move politically

    Its not working? Hahaha maybe because every candidate for a 3 strikes final sentence is given a get out of the sentence card by soft Judges using the manifestly unjust escape hatch…

    The scum these laws target don’t live in the Western Hills of the Hutt Valley safely looking down at Taita and Naenae as the lights flash during the night, the scum don’t live in Wadestown, Mt Vic, Khandallah… nor Fendalton or Ilam … Remmers and Parnell.

    They live in working class suburbs and they hurt working class people. Little is ignoring that in favour of the BS leftie line that everyone is redeemable… they just are not…

    Oh…And the law makers live in those nice safe suburbs I have mentioned like Khandallah and Ilam and Remmers, free from any impact of their wishy washy philosophies…bail these murdering, raping scum to bail halfway houses in the leafy, rich suburbs. Let the law makers and justice dealers eat their own dog food….not likely is it Mr Little

    Pete – can you request Mr Garrett does a guest post on 3 strikes?

    Reply
    • PDB

       /  May 30, 2018

      The rational from Little to get rid of the three strikes rule is because not many people get a third strike? Isn’t that the point – to act as a deterrent from multiple offending? Even then those few people given a third strike were dealt with appropriately using the judges discretion, they were not locked up for life for minor offending as some would have believed would happen under this system.

      What we don’t know is how many people would have continued to offend beyond the first warning/ final warning stage if the third strike rule was not in place.

      https://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector-policy/research-data/justice-statistics/three-strikes-statistics/

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  May 31, 2018

      how many strikes has…Garrett…had?

      Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 1, 2018

        When did he write that? It seems to be largely a complaint around this:

        In the Court of Appeal case which constrained Justice Davison, the court not only re-wrote the meaning of “manifestly unjust”, and explicitly said that a different meaning must prevail when applied in 3S murder cases, but inserted the crucial words “…or grossly disproportionate” into the definition – words parliament never intended to be part of the law. Something the Judges would have known if they had referred to Hansard, which they carefully refrained from doing.

        i.e. that they rewrote the law to make it harder for judges to apply a 3rd strike sentence which requires the Judge to impose the maximum sentence , to be served in full, without any parole or early release.

        Not sure how it specifically assists an argument against repeal of the 3 strikes law.

        Reply
  4. PDB

     /  May 30, 2018

    “He’s also planning to revive the last Labour Government’s sentencing council which National scrapped. It provides guidance to judges to prevent tougher sentences.”

    Labour again to be seen as soft on crime and also spend and tax merchants – they never learn. What did happen when Labour was last in power under Clark was violent crime rose considerably with the rate per 10,000 residents going up 35% between 1999 & 2008 & only dropping again once National was back in govt.

    Little: “We’ve had thirty years of this, the only way to deal with crime, get tough on crime, get really hard, lock them up for longer.
    Actually it’s not working.”

    That is not true – the overall NZ crime rate, homicide, firearm crime, & violent crime rates have been trending steadily downwards since the early 1990’s. Prior to that the crime rate rose considerably from the early 1950s – early 1990s.

    Reply
  5. PartisanZ

     /  May 30, 2018

    A never mentioned consideration of 3 Strikes is, of course, the “nothing to lose” factor …

    Hardened criminals sitting on 2 Strikes might as well murder as just rape, commit GBH or aggravated robbery …

    So any deterrent effect of 3 Strikes may be perversely negated already …

    To say nothing of the crims who are so habituated to prison life they actually want to be there … 3 strikes gets them a longer gig …

    I say “rehabilitate the bastards!!!” *sarc*

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  May 30, 2018

      I very much doubt any hardened criminals sitting on 2 Strikes give a moment’s thought to whether they should or shouldn’t murder or just rape, commit GHB or aggravated robbery, PZ.

      Just like they don’t appear to probably have given a moment’s thought to getting the first strike and then the second for the preceding acts that earned them those.

      This sounds like serious baby out with the bathwater stuff. Focus on restorative justice, social responsibility taking responsibility and rehabilitation for those at the low end of the scale, sure, but the first time some real scumbag beyond saving who society would have been protected from for longer rapes, GBH’s or kills on release there’ll be hell to pay.

      Reply
      • PDB

         /  May 30, 2018

        Agreed – the three strikes rule and rehabilitation etc are not mutually exclusive.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  May 30, 2018

          I’m worried about the next Carla Cardno, Christie Moreau, or Blessie Gotinco, PDB, if judges get the message to always err on the side of bail or minimal sentencing of serious psychos or thugs again. I don’t think there’s enuf use made of Preventive Detention. These cases might be statistically small numbers but the devastation they cause to family and friends and the fear they generate in society make it worth while to take these people out of circulation. Those offenders I’d have no qualms about loading the executioner’s gun for.

          Reply
      • patupaiarehe

         /  May 30, 2018

        Some individuals shouldn’t get the opportunity to earn a second strike. Tony Robertson is a perfect example.He abducted a child with sexual intent, but a dud judge sentenced him based upon “What actually happened, not what could have happened”. Shortly after being released, he ran over an innocent woman, then subjected her to the grossest of indecencies whilst she was injured & dying. And still he gets endless appeals, funded by the taxpayer. What a fucking joke our so called justice system is.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  May 30, 2018

          Yup – see my comment above. I thought you might be along soon on this one.

          Reply
          • patupaiarehe

             /  May 30, 2018

            I witnessed the aftermath of Robertsons first offence. The prick should have been executed years ago.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  May 30, 2018

              Yep.
              I only personally know one killer. I used to give him cigarettes at school. He was a junior, a weird little guy. Funny eyes. Always had a haunted look. He got picked on. I felt sorry for him. Shot his father and step-mother with a .22. Killed his dad. Brain-damaged his step mum.

              Not guilty by reason of insanity. This is all I’ve ever been able to find on him online:

              Date: 2 November 1973

              John Anthony Dean has been found not guilty of the murder of his father at New Plymouth on the grounds of insanity

              Source: New Zealand herald, p 3
              From: Auckland Libraries

              (They lived in Inglewood, outside of New Plymouth.)

              It was the year after I left school in 6th form. Dunno what ever became of him.

            • patupaiarehe

               /  May 31, 2018

              I won’t be ‘doxing’ myself here, by revealing my connection to Mr Robertsons first offence. What I can reveal, is that his actions changed the whole atmosphere of an entire neighbourhood. Children who once walked to school together, were no longer allowed to. Neighbours were suddenly suspicious of each other…

            • Gezza

               /  May 31, 2018

              My brother lived in Eastbourne with his then five little girls. Paul Dally used to ride his bike past their place.

            • Gezza

               /  May 31, 2018

              My neighbours in our previous place lost their son to the non-medicating paranoid schizophrenic Stephen Anderson at the Raurimu Massacre. NZ’s a small place. It’s probably quite surprising how many of us have some connection to or personal knowledge of killers or their victims or families.

  6. Zedd

     /  May 31, 2018

    Good onya Labour.. I hope you get NZF support on it ?
    NZ has amongst the highest imprisonment rate (per capita) in OECD/world ? WHY ??
    There is a USA-led mentality in this country.. if in doubt just “LOCK EM UP’/TOUGH on Crime Tory-led rhetoric

    Maybe it is time to look at other options. Whilst it maybe true that only a small number of ‘drug offenders’ are jailed. I have heard that over 50% of all inmates, first came to the Police attention through Drug possession (youth court) charges. Time to move on folks , it costs over $100k/yr per inmate to ‘lock em up’.. maybe they should move this money to education, drug rehab. job training etc. & other efforts to keep them out of prison.. its 2018

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  May 31, 2018

      … as the first priority !

      Reply
    • Trevors_Elbow

       /  May 31, 2018

      This guy can come stay with you Zedd on his release, and you can be responsible fo rhis rehabilitation and making sure he doesn’t go off the rails…

      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/05/meet_a_second_striker.html

      Reply
    • Trevors_Elbow

       /  May 31, 2018

      You hear a lot Zedd… where are you links to facts???

      Reply
      • Zedd

         /  May 31, 2018

        I hear today is thursday & we are on planet earth.. do you want links to prove this too ?

        Reply
        • Trevors_elbow

           /  June 1, 2018

          Clown… shows the limit of your capability.

          Reply
    • High Flying Duck

       /  May 31, 2018

      If the drug taking is leading to escalating crimes, then why would anyone want to push for legalising them?
      Surely legalising the drugs would simply make the road to other crimes a little easier.

      Reply
      • Blazer

         /  May 31, 2018

        just take out the..escalators.

        Reply
      • Zedd

         /  May 31, 2018

        @HFD
        I think you grabbed the wrong end of the stick..
        most ‘Drug taking’ is illegal & is an excuse the Police use to ‘stop & search’ people (esp. young maori men).. which creates negative attitudes (all around) it does not lead to escalation of crime.. what a ridiculous comment !

        Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  June 1, 2018

          There was a comment in a previous post that most prisoners are not inside for drug offences (mostly sexual offences, violence and robbery), but that drugs were the catalyst for may of them. I’m sure alcohol makes up a portion.

          Reply
  1. Three strikes to be struck out in two weeks — Your NZ – NZ Conservative Coalition

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