National’s crappy crime campaign

The National party and some of their MPs have been running a ‘soft on crime’ campaign against the Government.

Crime, justice and a crammed full and climbing prison crush are serious issues that deserve far better than this sort of populist attack politics from the Opposition.

Leave a comment

41 Comments

  1. The Standard: Labour does not want to let them all out

    It basically has a list of offences where first time up a defendant will be given a warning, second time up an offender serves the imposed sentence without parole and third time up unless it would be manifestly unjust an offender has to serve the maximum sentence for the offence.

    This has resulted in anomalous results. In a local case the result of which was described by Andrew Geddis as being batshit crazy an offender on his third strike was sentenced to seven years for pinching a prison guard’s bottom. And in America one legendary case involved an offender who was sentenced to 25 years for stealing a piece of pizza.

    The basic problem is that under these schemes Judges have no discretion to deal with the nuances of a case and work out a result that is fair and just. The underlying pretext is that all judges are too soft and the heavier the sentence the better.

    Of course the concept is, to use a well known legal phrase, bollocks, and no attempt to intellectually justify it has worked.

    And this is why it is rational and just to repeal this law.

    Reply
    • alloytoo

       /  June 2, 2018

      Quoting US application of the law to justify repealing it here is extremely misleading and ignores the evidence that a) it has never been abused in such a fashion in NZ and b) Does appear to have met it’s deterrent objective.

      Furthermore a low crime rate coupled with high incarceration suggests that the criminal justice system suggests that the criminal justice system is working meeting it’s primary objective:

      To protect the public.

      Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 2, 2018

      The basic problem is that under these schemes Judges have no discretion to deal with the nuances of a case and work out a result that is fair and just. The underlying pretext is that all judges are too soft and the heavier the sentence the better.

      Of course the concept is, to use a well known legal phrase, bollocks, and no attempt to intellectually justify it has worked.

      And this is why it is rational and just to repeal this law.

      1. It needs amending, not repealing.
      2. Preventive Detention law needs amending to apply to people like Tony Robertson, Blessie’s killer.

      Reply
    • ” pinching a prison guard’s bottom.”

      I do not believe that is what is said in the sentencing notes.

      Pete, I was at the sentencing of the piece of scum who was up on his third strike for murder. He is eligible for parole at 46. He will unlike get it then but could easily get it by 56. I will be dead by then and probably little as well. However, others who have killed have been paroled and killed again.

      Did you see the history of two second strikers over at Kiwiblog. They will not be in for life but are very likely to re-offend on release. If Little gets his way it will be a one term Labour led government and NZF will definitely be history.

      Repeat violent criminals, sexual offenders and peadophiles need to be kept in prison a very long time.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  June 2, 2018

        Lots of soft sentences under 9 years of national, its as if crime only started when Labour came to govern a bit like M,Bovis and the P house scandal.The right who post forget the criminals were put in jail under Key and English who were SOFT on crime.

        Reply
      • Gezza

         /  June 2, 2018

        😮 Peadophiles need to be kept in prison for a long time?

        Christ, Chuck! Lots of lovely, law abiding people love peas ! 😳

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 2, 2018

          My dog does, and an Indian friend’s dog, Fluffy, was so addicted to them that he taught himself to shell them. Peadophiles, both.

          As I remember it, the bottom thing was a grope rather than a pinch.

          I wonder if the pizza case is urban myth.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  June 2, 2018

            No, but he seems to have stood over some children before he stole it from them, terrifying them.

            Reply
  2. David

     /  June 2, 2018

    Not really a vote winning approach from Little there is hardly a chorus of the population screaming for crooks not to be locked up, never has been and never will be we arnt the US.

    Reply
  3. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 2, 2018

    A rational view would be to reinstate the requirement that eligible strikes be restricted to offences subject to penalties of 5 years jail or more.

    Reply
    • Patzcuaro

       /  June 2, 2018

      Sounds sensible.

      Reply
    • Chuck Bird

       /  June 2, 2018

      Alan, as far as I know that is the case. Can you show us one strike offence where is not please?

      Reply
      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 2, 2018

        The bum pinching third strike.

        Reply
        • Callum

           /  June 2, 2018

          The “bum pinch” was actually an assault on a female prison officer with sexual overtones.

          Reply
          • Kitty Catkin

             /  June 2, 2018

            Calling it a bum pinch is like calling beating a child smacking.

            Reply
          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 2, 2018

            It normally is, I imagine. However it is actually and literally a bum pinch.

            Reply
            • Callum

               /  June 2, 2018

              It was indecent assault, punishable by a maximum of 7 years. 7 years is more than 5 years in my experience, which makes it an eligible strike offence under your proposal.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 2, 2018

              Fair enough if you are correct, though it does seem a ridiculously broadly defined crime. Should we start jailing school kids for years for pinching bottoms?

            • Gezza

               /  June 2, 2018

              Do we jail them for hitting each when they’re little?
              Keep it real, Alan. It means something completely different after puberty & especially well after puberty.

            • Gezza

               /  June 2, 2018

              *each other. FiP!

            • Callum

               /  June 2, 2018

              There is a significant difference with that action in a prison environment, especially when he refused to leave the area when ordered and then followed the guard and blocked her leaving afterwards. No doubt there were other options under which to charge him (or not to charge at all and deal with through internal prison discipline), that likely reflects information that hasn’t been included in media stories.
              I think the original intention of the 5 years was more where the likely rather than maximum sentence was going to be 5 years. That however would give judges a lot of leeway which the legislation was intended to avoid. The point was judges were being too lenient and not reflecting criminal history in sentences.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 2, 2018

              You are out of date, G. Unfortunately sexualised behaviour at much earlier ages has been common for some decades.

            • Chuck Bird

               /  June 2, 2018

              You say it was a bum pinch. Where is you evidence?

  4. Trevors_Elbow

     /  June 2, 2018

    Labour ARE soft on crime – well at least under this clueless mob…. the first serious crime by a nasty scumbag who would have been behind bars if 3 strikes was on the books will unleash political hell on Labour.

    “this sort of populist attack politics from the Opposition” yeah nice pot stir Pete…. but frankly the non-chattering classes who live in the blue collar areas bear the brunt of scumbags violence and sexual attacks… not the residents of nice leafy suburbs where the lawyers, judges and senior civil servants live…

    All violent and sexual offenders should be released to rehab homes based in the the top 10% by income suburbs in the country… nowhere else. Lets see how the Law Makers, Judiciary and opinion setters like having the scum of the earth living next door to their precious Tarquins and Amys day in day out….

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 2, 2018

      Your last para – yup, this has long been my position too. Especially when you see the reasoning behind some judge’s decisions to release where reports indicate the offender is a twisted sod who needs constant supervision.

      Reply
      • Trevors_Elbow

         /  June 2, 2018

        indeed Duke of North Wellington….I know enough ratbags because of where I grew up…. Some grow out of it in their 30/40’s particularly if a good woman and kids have entered their lives… But there is a lot of years from 16 to 46 where a lot of damage is done plus there is a hard core of scumbags and just plain mad people who never can or will become model citizens and will continue to cause damage till mother earth reclaims their bodies.

        The ruling elites don’t get it in general and have supped on the everyone is reclaimable koolaid for too long…. there is a nasty sub class in our society who are killers, bashers and sexual predators – the rest of us deserve to be protected from them

        Reply
        • Blazer

           /  June 2, 2018

          you will get no argument on this…’killers, bashers and sexual predators – the rest of us deserve to be protected from them’
          However expecting all citizens to be cardboard cutouts that reflect your adherence to the ‘system’ is a bit….much.Regimented debt slaves ,Jo Lunchbox,hamsters in the wheel types are being….conned.

          Reply
          • Trevors_Elbow

             /  June 2, 2018

            Off topic. Personal attack – well an attempt. Plus projection about how you want everyone to be a replica of your borderline ‘personality’

            You’re pathetic Bol…short for Bollocks… because that is all you post

            Reply
    • lurcher1948

       /  June 2, 2018

      They should rehouse them in leafy suburbs like Epson so that David Seymour can watch them from his flat, wait they are building a housing complex there,diversity is good-RICH,poor and the criminals, what a melting pot

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  June 2, 2018

        They want to put a FIVE STOREY building there with some tenants who have serious problems and need special help being put in them. It would be bad enough having a five storey block ruining the look of the place and darkening the houses nearby without that as well.

        Who would want it in their street ? Not me.

        Reply
  5. duperez

     /  June 2, 2018

    “Crime, justice and a crammed full and climbing prison crush are serious issues that deserve far better than this sort of populist attack politics from the Opposition? ”

    Yes I suppose so. Well, but really, no.

    The only really serious issue for an opposition is being in opposition. Populist attack politics is the way to go. You go to bed to rest and end up a quivering, trembling mess. You lie there thinking of petrol at $4 a litre, tax increases, charter schools being done away with, the possibility of social housing being built in your neighbourhood and the high chance that this is the night some thug is going to break in and deal to you. If the Reds under the bed,
    don’t get you first.
    The horror of your favourite being dumped from the tv dancing show joins the barrage. And suddenly, there it is, the smiling face of the only one who can save you, the boy wonder.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 2, 2018

      Too much sugar in your breakfast?

      Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  June 2, 2018

      Nicely put duperez … !!!

      I worry terribly about failing business confidence too …

      Reply
    • PDB

       /  June 2, 2018

      Wonder woman has turned rogue and ended up having bugger all super powers – who’d of thought?

      Reply
  6. PDB

     /  June 2, 2018

    “Crime, justice and a crammed full and climbing prison crush are serious issues that deserve far more than the current govt getting rid of three strikes simply because ACT implemented it even though it appears to be having an effect in reducing reoffending rates”

    There, fixed it for you PG.

    Reply
  7. PartisanZ

     /  June 2, 2018

    National want to maintain and ‘grow’ the existing ‘Crime & Punishment’ industry …

    Labour-led want to ‘disrupt’ it …

    I’ll go with the trendy option.

    Having said that, any real change will need to alter the causes of crime … poverty, inequality, meaninglessness and money-greed … alcohol, drugs and mental illness … habituation …

    Reply
    • Zedd

       /  June 2, 2018

      follow the money.. If Natl got another term, there would be Private Prisons popping up all over this land.. what next Private Police force ? 😦

      SO glad that they are now in opposition ! 😀

      Crime is not a business.. but it seems that they want to maintain the BLACK-market, which definitley is.. why is this so ? again; follow the money

      Reply
  8. Traveller

     /  June 2, 2018

    “Crime, justice and a crammed full and climbing prison crush are serious issues that deserve far better than this sort of populist attack politics from the Opposition”

    Oh Pete, I don’t know Nats can just appoint people to a working group who will tell them what they want to hear, make the changes then say they consulted. The model is being played out here and now (120 and counting) by Labour who had, as you might remember nine long years of dog whistling.

    Reply
  9. lurcher1948

     /  June 2, 2018

    Another soft sentence from the national govt,3 years.Reading his history he needs to be in a mason clinic situation getting his head fixed….oops that involves thinking and making decisions something that wasn’t in the colourful David Garretts…thinking
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/meet_a_second_striker_3.html

    Reply
  10. the misuse of drugs act needs a do over, a guy I know, severe pain, 4 spine surgeries just got out for cultivation of cannabis, must be dozens like him,

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

w

Connecting to %s