Open Forum – Thursday

7 June 2018

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62 Comments

    • Gezza

       /  June 7, 2018

      [John Minto] has called on the Government to replace the boards and senior management of HNZ and WINZ.

      Minto considered the previous National government chose leaders at WINZ ” to drive people off welfare at whatever the personal costs to families while the leadership at HNZ was put in place to privatise thousands of state houses around New Zealand.”

      “The wrong people with the wrong values are at the head of both organisations,” Minto said.

      “Transformative culture change can only come with the government replacing the boards and senior leadership of both organisations.”

      He’s being pretty loose with the truth there. I’m sure Minto knows that Ministers or the Government don’t choose or appoint the Management or staff of Government Departments. The SSC does.

      After a change of government the new administration just inherits whoever’s in the top jobs.

      The Minister sets the culture though. If the Minister’s got gonads, after a free and frank meeting the CEO & senior crew either fall in line smartly with any new culture the Minister suggests or their meetings quickly become distinctly uncomfortable.

      I dunno though Blazer. There’s something about John Minto thatm whenever he calls for anything, it makes you want to do the opposite. :/

      Ministers can’t “officially” sack Departmental staff. We’ll have to wait and see what happens.

      If McKenzie and co were “chust followingk orders” & have documented that, removing them could be expensive. Smart CEO’s will instantly experience an epiphany and suddenly turn out to have a completely different idea of “how things are done around here” in their department.

      Personally, I think Minto’s absolutely right about the cultures of HNZ and W&I though and that the Heads of those depts should do the decent thing and piss off.

      Reply
      • Griff

         /  June 7, 2018

        Share your feeling with agreeing with Minto .
        Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

        The CEO answers to the board .
        The board answers to the share holders in this case the crown minister.

        The War on drugs motivation colored the decisions of both Housing NZ and standards NZ because it suited the government. Now we have a goverment that is not aligned with the war on drugs we see questions asked about residual drug testing. The result was predictable .
        To get one dose of P you would have to lick 1 km of wall 1 meter high. Even the revised standard is many times under what could cause harm to the most dedicated wall licking toddler.

        The next war on drugs legacy we need to examine is drug testing for income support and employment.
        You could get high as a kite on p and piss Friday and pass a drug test Monday morning.
        Smoke a little cannabis and it could show up weeks later .
        Employee or beneficiary Drug testing is a infringement on our right to do with our body’s as we wish if it has no effect on our employment or our ability to work.

        Reply
        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 7, 2018

          Eugenie Sage has that effect, too. Some people are just LIKE that. Even if you agree with them, they are so annoying that you want to say and do the opposite.

          I don’t agree with JM about the government wanting to drive people off welfare at any cost. if they did, they’d just stop their money.

          If drug use makes someone using machinery or vehicles a danger to other people, it is very much not their right to do it.

          Reply
  1. Blazer

     /  June 7, 2018

    never fear the ANZ in NZ is not dodgy like their parent coy in Australia…because…because…

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/06/06/what-is-a-cartel/

    Reply
  2. lurcher1948

     /  June 7, 2018

    One of Sir Keys deployables imprisoned with a soft sentence under National

    Reply
    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 7, 2018

      Who is he, what did he do and what did John Key have to do with it ?

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  June 7, 2018

        If he’s unemployable, it’s his own doing.

        Reply
        • lurcher1948

           /  June 7, 2018

          He’s inside Kitty, but when he’s released, as happens when his terms up it will all be Labours fault according to the right,

          Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 7, 2018

      Fuxake Lurch. Have been having idiotburgers for lunch? Judges do sentencing, not governments.

      Reply
      • lurcher1948

         /  June 7, 2018

        Judges impose sentences set by govt,Think it through before posting the idiotburger comment(im hurt), they(the judges)dont wake up and think 60 years for jaywalking today

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 7, 2018

          (im hurt)
          Now you know how I felt when you wouldn’t come with to meet Simon and Mr Husdon and tell them what you think of them.

          Reply
        • High Flying Duck

           /  June 7, 2018

          National were pushing for stronger sentencing but the judiciary fought against it and deliberately mis-read the 3 strikes provisions to avoid longer sentences.
          Andy is now trying to stop people like your mate above going to prison at all – stick an ankle bracelet on and she’ll be right!
          It will only be Labour’s fault if he gets out because parole laws are relaxed as Andy wants to do.

          Reply
          • lurcher1948

             /  June 7, 2018

            All inmates released will have to live in Epson in David Seymours street in a state house or close to David Garretts property in a halfway house so he could observe and post on kiwiblog

            Reply
            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 7, 2018

              As David Seymour is NOT in favour of AL’s policies. I don’t see why he should be saddled with them. Why not put them near Labour and Green MPs houses ?

              David Garrett was the mover of 3 Strikes, not the one who removed it.

            • High Flying Duck

               /  June 7, 2018

              Typical leftie – desperate to put in the feel good but wrong-headed policies, and then make anyone but themselves suffer the consequences.

    • sorethumb

       /  June 7, 2018

      reminds me of Pihama

      Reply
    • Blazer

       /  June 7, 2018

      what bank does he work ..at! 😉

      Reply
  3. Gezza

     /  June 7, 2018

    Auckland pilot, imo.

    Reply
  4. lurcher1948

     /  June 7, 2018

    Sorry, Chuck cannot come as im running RED in New Plymouth this weekend.Someone else here might come 🙂
    9,289 COMMENTS
    Chuck Bird
    I will be going to hear U.S Ambassador Scott Brown at Tim Macindoe Monthly Forum at Cafe Agora, Kent St, Frankton tomorrow morning at 10:15.

    Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 LOG IN TO REPLY REPORTJUNE 7, 2018 10:32AM

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 7, 2018

      Scott Brown: more complaints surface over behaviour of US ambassador to New Zealand

      US officials investigated Brown after he was accused of inappropriate behaviour at a party in Samoa and was alleged by one woman to have stared at her breasts.

      It is understood that two complaints investigated by the US state department against Brown originally came from two female peace corps volunteers who were at the event, and who served food and drink to the guests as a way to flip the cultural norm of Samoans serving westerners.

      But in addition to these complaints are others that the ambassador’s behaviour was “shocking”, “culturally insensitive”, “rude” and “undiplomatic”. The Guardian contacted more than a dozen people who attended the party and spoke to a number who said he had made them feel uncomfortable.

      One woman told the Guardian that Brown allegedly stared at her body when she was introduced to him. She did not want to be identified, but said: “The first time I met him, he looked at my chest immediately.” She alleged that another female colleague had a similar experience.“I felt immediately uncomfortable and it didn’t feel right,” she added.

      A male ex-peace corps volunteer described a strained atmosphere developing at the party as the ambassador shouted at guests to be quiet and listen to him. “It was very culturally insensitive,” said the man. “He just did multiple things in 15 seconds that really put me off, and looking around [I] saw it put off a lot of other people as well.

      “At least twice, maybe three times, he was telling everybody, ‘Stop talking, be quiet, listen to me.’”

      Another ex-peace corps volunteer called Brown’s speech “really pompous and sort of shocking”. The man, who again did not want to be named, said he approached Brown after his speech, hoping to gauge the man representing his country.

      More…
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/26/scott-brown-more-complaints-surface-over-behaviour-of-us-ambassador-to-new-zealand

      First ambassador appointed by Trump 😕

      Reply
      • Kitty Catkin

         /  June 7, 2018

        Get over yourselves, ladies. It’s quite possible for a man to look at you when he’s talking to you without staring at your boobs unless there’s so much of them on display that it would be impossible not to look.

        Why not just move away if you’re that much of a petal ?

        Reply
      • High Flying Duck

         /  June 7, 2018

        Reply
      • Blazer

         /  June 7, 2018

        you would expect the U.S ambassador to keep abreast of developments in Oceania with …current U.S foreign ..policy.

        Reply
  5. Corky

     /  June 7, 2018

    By chance I saw a documentary on Spanish dictator Francisco Franco. The doco showed the inside of the controversial Valle De Los Caidos monument. I want to visit this site.

    Why controversial?

    ”The Valley of the Fallen was commissioned by Spanish dictator Francisco Franco in 1940 to supposedly honour the fallen of the Spanish Civil War. In theory, it was intended to be a memorial to commemorate both sides, but many believe this to be ironic and that it was actually Franco’s shrine to victory and a place of mourning exclusively for his followers.”

    The doco show the inside of this memorial. A more creepy beautiful place, that vacillates between light and darkness and foreboding, I have not seen. The atmosphere seeped out of my television set. A sensitive would say there are many souls not at peace.. That, of course, wouldn’t be surprising as this article would suggest.

    The author in the below link picked up the vibe this place has. So do some of those leaving comments.

    http://spanishsabores.com/2012/03/25/visiting-valle-de-los-caidos-valley-of-the-fallen-spain/

    Reply
  6. Corky

     /  June 7, 2018

    More pasty mousy Trumpy haters at it during the election. One guy is black though.

    Reply
    • Gezza

       /  June 7, 2018

      Reply
      • Corky

         /  June 7, 2018

        I’m glad you posted that. Good to see no private property rights and theft committed, but then I guess these Hosers are too dumb to steal signs.

        I will be posting on this theme tomorrow. While these people shown are only one section of Trump supporters, albeit a very large Trump supporting demographic, I have come to the conclusion these people are true patriots, telling it how it is, and in my opinion the only hope left to salvage Western culture.

        Reply
        • Gezza

           /  June 7, 2018

          Are you doing a Guest Post?
          That’d be cool Corks. Seriously.

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  June 7, 2018

            No, just an ordinary offering. I don’t have the ability for one of those flash posts.
            Its nothing fantastic, not even new, but I think it proves a point ( and my bias) Hope I can find the link.

            God bless Western culture.

            Reply
            • Gezza

               /  June 7, 2018

              No, just an ordinary offering. I don’t have the ability for one of those flash posts.

              Yes, you do. You actually write very well. Your musings are provocative & I enjoy provoking you back – sometimes just to be a tease, I must admit – but I think you often express viewpoints that few will in our PC world, and they are often very valid & worth reading.

              Guest posts don’t have to be long. I think you underrate your abilities as a polemicist.

            • Gezza

               /  June 7, 2018

              I would add, Corky, although you may find this hard to believe, I personally enjoy your wry wit and the wicked sense of humour in many of your posts.

            • Corky

               /  June 7, 2018

              Thanks.

  7. PDB

     /  June 7, 2018

    Always seemed a bit odd the Spinoff was promoting a message of ‘tax is good’ in a series of articles for the IRD;

    https://mailchi.mp/6ba0c4ab7b1c/tax-villains-the-spinoff-breach-40000-agreement-with-ird

    “Due to an official information request, the Taxpayers’ Union can reveal that The Spinoff was paid $40,000 by the IRD to publish the series.

    The IRD is required to be politically neutral – especially so for matters currently under consideration by Sir Michael Cullen’s Tax Working Group.

    The Spinoff’s contract with the IRD specifically states: The Spinoff agrees not to refer to any political party or their policies in the content.

    However, an IRD-branded article by Maria Slade, published on 31 March, ignores the contractual obligation.”

    ““This kind of taxpayer-funded media rort may keep quasi-news platforms like The Spinoff afloat, but do it does no good for ordinary taxpayers. The IRD should not have been funding pay-for-play websites in the first place”.

    Reply
    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  June 7, 2018

      John Russell was a tax hero. This lot are tax sychophants.

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  June 7, 2018

        John Russell was a tax hero who probably had his life extended by our tax-funded health system to the tune of as much or more dollars as he refused to pay in tax …

        That makes him a tax ‘villian’ …

        Reply
  8. lurcher1948

     /  June 7, 2018

    Just when you get a summit,a geriatric throws it under a bus, STFU Giuliana you old fart
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/kim-jong-un-begged-for-summit-on-his-hands-and-knees-giuliani-says-1528293476

    Reply
  9. sorethumb

     /  June 7, 2018

    Reply
    • Corky

       /  June 7, 2018

      The only chap who’s given Willie Jackson a run for his money. Like a troll, Jackson was reduced to invective and interjecting. I think they have locked horns a few times.

      Poor guy is deluded though…one law for all ..LOL.😄

      Reply
    • PartisanZ

       /  June 7, 2018

      One Law 4 All … ???

      That’s the fringe ‘organisation’ about One Law for All … provided it’s my White, Western, Secular-Christian, English Law …

      “The basic bred and butter …”

      A KiwiFrontLine diatribe of epic sophistry … delusional ‘academic’ ignorance …

      Bitter too … angry, bitter and twisted …

      Reply
      • PartisanZ

         /  June 7, 2018

        KiwiFrontline or some such race-fear-and-hatred platform was almost certainly the “publication” he ‘reviewed’ the book ‘Treaty of Waitangi Settlements’ for …

        … and sure enough, it’s NZCPR …

        I acknowledge Round is a Law Lecturer but he otherwise functions in an alternate universe.

        https://www.nzcpr.com/treaty-of-waitangi-settlements/

        For a different and Maori viewpoint here’s Maori Law Review …

        http://maorilawreview.co.nz/2013/02/book-review-treaty-of-waitangi-settlements/

        Reply
      • Corky

         /  June 7, 2018

        You sound like Willie Jackson, Parti. Talking about ignorance. Does your set still speak of ‘Treaty Partnership?” And was he wrong when he said Maori claims my never end? No, he was not. Some Maori have been quoted as saying a whole raft of modern treaty claims are being created by ”treaty stresses” ( according to one fool).

        Bitter too … angry, bitter and twisted?? The bread and butter of the treaty industry. And as Willie has shown, woe to he that objects to history according to Maori.

        Reply
        • PartisanZ

           /  June 7, 2018

          … with even worse woe betide ‘she’ who objects to NZCPR, KFL, HP and 1NZ alternate history … the non-academic or ‘fake’ kind … generated by race-fear-and-hatred …

          It’s a hell of a balancing act David Round does between teaching academic Law and holding such profoundly racially prejudiced private or ‘semi-professional’ (or quasi-professional) views.

          I’m in Te Tiriti “relationship” mode Corky …

          Reply
          • Corky

             /  June 7, 2018

            Parti, a fact is a fact. Whether Round holds racial prejudices is besides the point. It’s up to listeners to sort bs from facts and reasonable tentative arguments.

            Reply
  10. Kitty Catkin

     /  June 7, 2018

    I’m glad that I’m not on the jury of the father/son case…was it self-defence, murder, manslaughter…

    Reply
  11. sorethumb

     /  June 7, 2018

    PartisanZ
      /  May 24, 2018
    Since we’re discussion Jordan Peterson, whose “ideologies” are founded on ‘mythology’ and psychology, why would we divert and obfuscate, and start talking about so-called ‘science’?
    But one can ask exactly the same question of science: Can traditional scientific ‘knowledge’ be considered scientific?
    Because wherever there’s a subjective person – namely a human being or ‘scientist’ – attempting to be objective, they will inevitably be subjective to some degree or other … This is in the nature of being a subjective being …
    Not to say lots of good things haven’t come out of scientific method, exploration, investigation and experimentation … but it turns out to be a two-edged sword just like theology … Church doctrines inimical to life … and just like Peterson’s mythology …
    Example: So-called ‘pure’ science has translated into pharmaceuticals, Right, some of which are killing people in droves and which people are turning away from in droves …
    Wholistic world views are being incorporated into science as we speak, like the benefits of the whole plant rather than synthesized chemicals … Maori rongoa practices have considerable relevance to this …
    I don’t want to talk about this crap with you sorethumb, you are just trying to divert onto your racial soapbox. I just came on to say “Bye Bye Jordan!”
    …………..
    Note Google
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Jordan+peterson&oq=Jordan+peterson&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59l2j69i61l2j69i59.6524j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Reply
  12. sorethumb

     /  June 7, 2018

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0307/S00029.htm

    I doubt something like aboriginal title would apply in a case where so many have an interest to freely access the foreshore and seabed. These are man made laws after all and they appeal to notions of justice. Maori are appealing to legal technicalities much as Shylock did in the Merchant to Venice. The government here is playing a game where they assume good will on behalf of Maori; Maori have no crass motivations, they are pure and spiritual (noble savages). Those Pakeha on the other hand, Weeeellll, they are “uglies” and “bigots”

    Reply
  13. sorethumb

     /  June 7, 2018

    Catherine Delahunty:
    “I explained that as a Pakeha I had a very limited relationship with the foreshore and seabed but “loved the beach” generally. This did not compare well to the 1000 years of whakapapa and site specific responsibilities that Betty and her hapu maintain to this day. Yet she had been refused a chance to speak. I also waved a copy of Te Tiriti around in a flamboyant manner.
    Betty talked very clearly about her people and their relationship to their foreshore and how Te Tiriti reaffirms their customary rights, therefore the Bill cannot pass. She is 71 years old and has given her whole life to kaitiakitanga. It was a privilege to be beside her. It was also great to have Tariana and Metiria at the table emanating their respect and love for her korero. From the window we could see across to Hauraki and Te Moehau the mountain shining on the horizon as she rises up from Tikapa Moana.
    Then Gordon Jackman, wearing his “qualified archaeologist” hat took the Committee on a journey from a beach of sand and shells through to the 1868 Deed of Cession on the East Coast, wherein the foreshore and seabed were never ceded. He explained how from the archaeological layers they uncovered at the Port of Gisborne, you can see people arriving, establishing manawhenua and adapting to population expansion from within their cultural framework, and then the violent imposition of Pakeha power in that place. Gordon challenged the committee to re assess their limited understanding of the term “ownership” and to recognise that the Bill was a continuation of Crown violence based on a crude and absurd underestanding of the word”ownership” He described the process as part of “democratheid” a word he has coined which describes the majority imposition of racist policy in a democrarcy. He also described the consequences as not civil war in the conventional sense but a long term proliferation of misery, poverty, misunderstanding and injustice.

    “The other MPs except for Tariana and Metiria, trotted out all the favourite myths about “they killed the moa” etc”
    http://www.greens.org.nz/misc-documents/diary-debacle-archive-6th-september-15th-september

    Reply
  14. PDB

     /  June 7, 2018

    Senior govt ministers becoming very arrogant in only six months on the job? Especially from two of the most inept ministers of a very poor bunch? Not a very good sign & can only end in tears.

    “Becoming frustrated with the questions from the Opposition, Davis offered his own metaphor to add to the many the committee had heard earlier in the day from Regional Development Minister Shane Jones.
    “What did Minister Jones say today? You guys are in the bilges while we’re up on the bridge looking at the big thing.
    “In a tourism sense I’d say we’re looking at the lakes and you guys are looking at puddles,” Davis said.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104542844/mps-consider-recalling-kelvin-davis-to-select-committee-over-vacant-answers

    “To the winner goes the booty”.
    That’s how Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones described how he ended up with a billion dollars to spend in the regions.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12066234

    Reply
    • Blazer

       /  June 7, 2018

      I do wish they would be original…instead of mimicing the previous..administration.

      Reply
  15. sorethumb

     /  June 7, 2018

    Reply

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