Open Forum – Monday

11 June 2018

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51 Comments

  1. David

     /  June 11, 2018

    There is a bit of optimism here in the USA, quite a bit of activity and a good vibe.
    Wish Blazer and Bloggs were here chilling by the pool with a Trump hotel in the background peeping between the palm trees, Trump 2020 could be a thing.

  2. Traveller

     /  June 11, 2018

    Peter Dunne argues that this Government’s sidelining of officials and public servants is a risky approach that could rebound painfully.

    Very interesting piece from Dunne.

    “An as yet quiet but nonetheless steady change is underway in the working relationship between ministers and senior public servants. Over the last few years, as the previous Government’s Better Public Services targets shaped the agenda, the relationship had been shifting to a more collaborative one where officials were working more actively and laterally across traditional departmental boundaries to achieve policy outcomes.

    Public servants were no longer the passive implementers of the Government’s wishes, but were becoming active partners in the process. Permanent inter-departmental officials’ committees had been established to service Cabinet committees, and officials had become regular participants in Cabinet committee discussions.” ……

    “The advent of the new Government has changed all those relationships, but it is not yet clear what the replacement practice will be. Already, the officials’ committees serving Cabinet committees have gone – they no longer attend Cabinet committee meetings. And the more general attendance of officials at Cabinet committees has been reduced too. The Better Public Services targets seems to be a thing of the past as well, although their ultimate fate is still uncertain.

    This week’s revelation that there is no Cabinet paper-trail on the decision to stop future oil exploration is but the latest confirmation of this trend. Under this Government, a clear message is being sent that ministers make the decisions, not bureaucrats. (Indeed, one story doing the rounds in Wellington is of one very senior public servant being forced to wait outside for several hours while ministers determined issues relating to his organisation.)……

    How all this plays out over the balance of the term remains to be seen, but there are already clear signs of looming difficulties. The most obvious is KiwiBuild, where it now seems obvious that Labour’s essentially back-of-the-envelope policy is not supported by official advice and is unlikely to be achieved. Similar potential conflicts loom in the Justice policy area where the minister appears impervious to advice, and then there is the ongoing saga of the Provincial Growth Fund and its lax governance.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/06/10/115295/peter-dunne-sidelining-officials-could-hurt-labour

    • Blazer

       /  June 11, 2018

      Dunne is a yesterdays ‘glide time’ politician who should not be taken…seriously.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 11, 2018

        Does that mean none of the above is true?

        • Blazer

           /  June 11, 2018

          it is opinion but none of it is absolute…all of it is debateable.

          Bear in mind Dunne has been in Parliament for decades and did not apply himself to the issues he mentions while he was…there.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 11, 2018

            Since he was arguing that good systems and processes have been discarded your last sentence is ridiculous and your first sentence is just wrong.

            • Blazer

               /  June 11, 2018

              its opinion…period.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 11, 2018

              Facts, not opinion:
              the officials’ committees serving Cabinet committees have gone – they no longer attend Cabinet committee meetings. And the more general attendance of officials at Cabinet committees has been reduced too.

              there is no Cabinet paper-trail on the decision to stop future oil exploration

      • lurcher1948

         /  June 11, 2018

        He was my MP, a regular “boss hogg”living in the pig trough of life. as useless as david seymour,

    • NOEL

       /  June 11, 2018

      I’m guessing there are some portfolios that a 3rd string underling is sent to a Departmental briefing to distance people from advice that don’t want to hear. Bet there is a lot of tape machines appearing on on tables where they haven’t been considered necessary in the past.

  3. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    60 custom staff under Sir Keys govt were naughty, drug stealing/taking etc.NATIONAL soft on crime and let’s not mention the fishing industry refusing observers on board so they could rape and pillage the oceans.NATIONAL. soft on regulations. and. conservation
    Don’t worry folks Jacinda Ardern our PM will bring order to the mess National has left behind

    • High Flying Duck

       /  June 11, 2018

      Jacinda has fixed the fishing issue by taking the observers and the camera’s away – environment fixed!

      What happened to the staff caught stealing? Were they let off?

      • Blazer

         /  June 12, 2018

        ‘What happened to the staff caught stealing? Were they let off?’….knighted under…National.

        • High Flying Duck

           /  June 12, 2018

          It’s the new top dog who’s all in for the fishing industry there Blazer – get your facts straight.

  4. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    “David Garrett for Minister of Justice” after all he knows all about crime having to resign from parliament because of it

  5. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 11, 2018

    Winston has killed the three strikes repeal. Oops.

    • Corky

       /  June 11, 2018

      Just heard the news. Excellent result. I was about to say from a political point of view this result is to Nationals detriment…but now I’m not too sure. It may cause some friction in the coalition and have Andy off on another ill conceived mission.

      • NOEL

         /  June 11, 2018

        All the analysis I have read suggests it hasn’t lived up to everyone expectations. Welcome any credible evidence to the contrary.

    • Trevors_elbow

       /  June 11, 2018

      Even his near dead body can sense political disaster….. who’ve destroyed his vote

    • PartisanZ

       /  June 11, 2018

      Tragedy … absolute tragedy … NZFirst had already long ago lost the Tougher Sentences, More Police & Prisons ‘Right Brigade’ vote … Hell, this wasn’t even an election promise of Winston’s that he reneged on!

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068314

      Like NZFirst & some Labour members scuttling Chloe Swarbrick’s imminently sensible, moderate medical cannabis law reform Bill …

      Can’t any of them do some “coalition affirming” stuff? Do they have to act like Opposition to one another?

      For all our sakes, let’s hope what Little says, “There will be a package of criminal justice reform coming out of this government” comes to fruition …

      Unless, I suppose, all you want is an enlarged ‘Crime & Punishment Industry’ sector of the economy?

      • Its a coalition, nobody should be anyone’s Patsy.

        Peters is a law and order man. How hard is that to understand?

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 11, 2018

    Can’t any of them do some “coalition affirming” stuff? Do they have to act like Opposition to one another?

    You can’t be serious?? We are talking Winston here.

    • PartisanZ

       /  June 11, 2018

      I must write to him … but I’ll have to calm down first … otherwise it’ll be –

      FFS man … affirm the F#@*NG coalition you created!

    • PartisanZ

       /  June 11, 2018

      Oh well Alan … you and your cronies will probably get your enlarged ‘Crime & Punishment Industry’ sector of the economy … that’ll be great for Northland eh?

      According to you we’ve got the raw materials!

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 11, 2018

        The number of third strikes issued is very minimal, PZ. By all accounts the increased prison population is the result of tougher bail conditions, not three strikes.

      • Trevors_Elbow

         /  June 11, 2018

        People like this little packet of joy deserve Prison till they die. You can bang on about fix the causes – and fair enough nip the bud out and stop the conditions that create this sort of outcome – but the general populace deserve protection form scumbaqgs like this one

        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/meet_a_second_striker_9.html#comments

        and this one:

        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/meet_a_second_striker_4.html

        And…..Go read the second strikers line up over on Kiwiblog and tell me you would be happy to live next to any of them especially when things don’t go there way….

  7. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 11, 2018

    Any business the Government runs requires customers to be treated as potential criminals:
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068432

    Roads, transport, airports, welfare, …

    • Gezza

       /  June 11, 2018

      Fare evasion costs $2 million to $3m a year, putting an extra burden on ratepayers and taxpayers who already subsidise around half the cost of fares.

      You would rather pay a bit more tax so anyone can ride free on fully subsidised public transport everywhere, then?

  8. PartisanZ

     /  June 11, 2018

    Meantime, largely beneath the radar, the dog attacks go on … and on … and on …

    ‘Owner of rottweiler involved in vicious attack says dog wasn’t at fault’ – NZHeraldo

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12068396

    This time a blatant admission from the owners referencing what dog ownership is really all about for so many ‘Kiwis’ nowadays …

    “The owner of one of two rottweilers that attacked an AUTISTIC MAN in Southland yesterday is facing having his “best friend” put down – but insists the “lovely” dogs are not at fault.

    The owner of the female dog, named Zara, said the victim had allegedly opened his gate and entered his property at the time of the attack.

    “The person who was attacked should never have opened the gate and should never have been on my property,” the owner said.”

    Had the victim been an inquisitive child rather than a 22 year old autistic man, I wonder if this ‘responsible’ dog owner would say the same?

    “Dog bite injuries, as per ACC statistics, have increased from 10,647 dog bite injury claims in 2007 to 14,719 in 2017” – Petition of Wendy Baker – Take action to reduce Dog Attacks and Dog Bite Injuries in New Zealand

    Here’s a Heraldo article from 2015 –

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11491949

    “Report authors Jonny Mair and Zach Moaveni say the incident rate is rising steadily, from 10.5 per 100,000 population in 2004 to 14.3 per 100,000 in 2014. Yet the Government just shrugs its shoulders. Mr Key told TV One he wasn’t convinced more laws were the best way to tackle aggressive dog breeds.

    He trotted out the failed old slogans about tighter regulations only hurting responsible, registered dog owners, and that “70 per cent of dog bites occur in the family home, or with friends”. He pointed the finger at irresponsible dog owners who disobey existing laws.

    Imagine the furore if Mr Key were to substitute “wife-bashing” or “child molestation” for “dog bite” and similarly dismiss the need for urgent action.”

    Please, sign Wendy Baker’s petition: https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/petitions/document/PET_78032/petition-of-wendy-baker-take-action-to-reduce-dog-attacks

    • PartisanZ

       /  June 11, 2018

      What if the offending dog Zara was a person?

      “She’s not a bad person, you know. She’s committed Grievous Bodily Harm, you know … but she’s not a bad person” …

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 11, 2018

        Maori kill a lot more people than dogs do, PZ.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  June 11, 2018

          True but irrelevant.

          I’d have to say that all the rotties I have known have been big softies,

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 11, 2018

            Is it really irrelevant? PZ brought up the comparison with people, presumably for his own purposes and not to defend dogs. I extended it to put dog attacks into that context and perspective.

        • PartisanZ

           /  June 11, 2018

          Irrelevance is irrelevance Miss Kitty … and negates “truth” in cases like this.

          Alan’s is a relativistic, diversionary, backhanded racist slight … spoken like a true cretin.

          Drowning, automobiles and farm bikes kill more people too, as do mountaineering accidents …

          All the Maori I’ve ever known personally have been big softies too … to me …

          It seems this doesn’t get some relatively few Maori people off charges of GBH.

          • Alan Wilkinson

             /  June 11, 2018

            Even relatively fewer dogs kill people, PZ.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 11, 2018

              It is a meaningless comparison,really, as dogs are not responsible for their actions as people are; they are doing what dogs do unless they are trained out of it and not let to do it.

              Not many people had much sympathy for a horrible child who teased a dog and was told not to, but grabbed the dog’s balls and was bitten when the dog, a family dog, was driven beyond endurance by what must have been extreme pain.

            • Alan Wilkinson

               /  June 11, 2018

              It could be irrelevant because dogs are not a Treaty partner, Kitty. Both Treaty partners kill a lot more people than dogs do.

            • PartisanZ

               /  June 11, 2018

              Pre-Cretin Man survives!

              The comparison with people actually came up in the NZHerald article I quoted from, viz –

              “Imagine the furore if Mr Key were to substitute “wife-bashing” or “child molestation” for “dog bite” and similarly dismiss the need for urgent action.”

  9. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    You sigh when stale old white republicans open their mouths
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44435081

  10. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/99223135c2bd66d3268e7b72edf97b1d0335dd98/0_0_1200_720/master/1200.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=b2437b424efc840f490ab7f37f9fd9f9
    The Japanese PM thinks trumps a fat buffoon but Merkel thinks the orange POTUS 45 has past bad wind.Imagine having to work with this person,when donald open his mouth what is the idiot going to say,(do you have McDonalds and frys)MAGA the worlds joke

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 11, 2018

      In Central Europe, the Joker is called the Fool and is the trump card, but, of course, the joker/fool is a wild card and being a trump means nothing.

  11. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    Got my name down

  12. lurcher1948

     /  June 11, 2018

    For all of our male posters turned on by David Seymour tweeking last night,heres a Seymour turn on to move the juices, boys

  13. Blazer

     /  June 11, 2018

    a rightie with 2 left feet.Seymour cheeks dances like he was created by ..Geppetto.