Open Forum – Wednesday

13 June 2018


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  1. High Flying Duck

     /  June 13, 2018

    Chinese companies bottling and exporting NZ water is obviously not an issue any more now that Labour is in power.

    It’s amazing how perspectives change when reality kicks in.

    This one was signed off by a Green MP:

    “Creswell New Zealand is owned by Nongfu Spring Co Limited – a Chinese bottled water supplier which wanted to complete a $42.5 million expansion at the current water bottling plant.

    They want to take up to 5000 cubic metres of groundwater per day or almost 1,100,000 cubic metres per year for the commercial bottling of water.

    Creswell New Zealand managing director Michael Gleissner said the consent was great news for the Kawerau, Whakatāne and Te Teko communties.

    Otakiri Springs currently employs eight full-time staff.

    Mr Gleissner said the company would provide real jobs and will give priority to hiring locals – who will be given on-the-job training to raise their employment skills.

    “Provided we receive resource consent, we will be able to make a significant investment in this community, where reducing unemployment has been identified by the councils as the number one issue to be addressed,” Mr Gleissner said.

    Land Information Minister Eugenie Sage said the decision to grant the consent to buy land was guided by the provisions of the Overseas Act.

    “It does have substantial economic developments – the provision of 60 new jobs in the Whakatāne area and we’ve gone beyond what is normally done in how conditions are provided,” Ms Sage said.

    The consent would allow the company to buy around 6.2 hectares of land at Otakiri, near Whakatāne.”

  2. PartisanZ

     /  June 13, 2018

    “Now the only part of these stories I don’t get is why we aren’t we clipping the ticket? Why, when they apply to the councils to send millions of litres offshore, aren’t the councils creaming it? And why isn’t that money then returned to the community in some sort of dividend? And further, why haven’t we been into this business like robbers’ dogs?”

    Very pertinent questions from none other than Mike Hosking …

    “But for all our upset, how come we aren’t dominating our own industry? Why is it the foreigners can see the benefits and profits in pulling water out of the ground and sending it overseas, and we presumably can’t?”

    On this occasion, Mike’s inquiries, including Xenophobia, are infinitely more pertinent than scoring Political Party points over which “government on behalf of global corporate-capitalist-political elites” has issued the resource consent …

    It doesn’t matter which government on behalf … They’re all governments on behalf …

    Another question: Why aren’t they governments on behalf of the people of their own nation?

    Why isn’t the Provincial Growth Fund buying into water bottling?

    Although it might be more relevant to ask: Why is anybody buying into the creation of monumentally massive amounts of plastic waste to contain water rather than fixing the issues preventing clean water coming out of the tap?


    • Gerrit

       /  June 13, 2018

      A good reason is that just owing a bottling plant does not equate to bottled water sales.

      The bottling plant is but one post exploitation resource required. The other is a distribution and sales network.

      Now not saying Kiwis should not own the bottling plants and set up a global distribution/sales network, it is just that companies like Nogfu Springs have, is distribution and sales up and running. They have market presence.

      To compete with them takes quite a few dollars and time to establish (especially global supermarket contacts) .

      Am all for Kiwi’s doing this sort ownership/distribution/sales endeavor, but be mindful that the cost is simple not confined to a bottling plant.

      I would say that the bottling plant would be the cheapest part of the setup costs.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 13, 2018

        Spot on. When you are marketing stuff that falls from the sky all of the costs are in the marketing.

      • Blazer

         /  June 13, 2018

        Very good analysis there Gerrit…marketing and distribution is what the Asians have in place.

      • PartisanZ

         /  June 13, 2018

        So Gerrit … ummm … Are you saying The Warehouse, just as an example, is not an independent NZ marketer and distributor of mostly Asian manufactured & packaged products?

        Anyone manufacturing and marketing a product internationally must, by your reckoning, also have their very own global distribution network?

        Bunkum! Absolute friggin’ bunkum!

        • Gerrit

           /  June 13, 2018

          You are not getting my drift at all. How does the (lets call it Kiwi Water) get to the notice of retail distributors like the Warehouse? Distribution and Sales. Granted you can supply the local market from a Otakiri based warehouse (distribution point). But New Zealand market is tto small so you need to look over the horizon.

          Now how do you get Kiwi Water into say ASDA in the UK?

          You need a distribution point in the UK (customer is not going to wait for 8 weeks whilst the delivery from a NZL warehouse arrives), you need a sales team on the ground (cant fly in sales staff from New Zealand – not cost effective) and your marketing has to be UK focussed and thus best done in the UK. .

          Same in China, Canada, USA, Middle East, Asia, South America, Australia, etc.

          You need local storage and distribution plus feet on the ground in each area where you want to operate. Overseas marketing is best done at their local sales levels,

          You could do distribution and sales through international companies like Nogfu Springs but then you are loosing potential profit and risk your brand name through not having direct control (Fonterra in China is an example of that)

    • High Flying Duck

       /  June 13, 2018

      I agree entirely with Mike’s comments. My point was more about the Labour Green histrionics
      on this issue when in opposition vs its actions now.

      However, the infighting has begun:

      “Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is facing intense backlash from members threatening to quit over a decision made by one of her ministers to allow a Chinese water bottler to expand.

      Davidson has said she “doesn’t like” the decision after the co-leader of the Young Greens Max Tweedie wrote on an internal Facebook page that that he was “extremely disappointed” in the decision.

      Land Information Minister Eugenie Sage, one of three Green ministers, announced the decision on Tuesday which allows in principle a Chinese water bottling giant to purchase land in order to expand their existing Otakiri Springs water bottling plant near Whakatane.”

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  June 13, 2018

        There was nothing to stop anyone here doing the investing and making the profits.

        This is just the politics of envy.

        Why didn’t the Greens club together ?

  3. Blazer

     /  June 13, 2018

    The 60 jobs did it.Lets hope they are real fulltime jobs.
    Still no reason why a levy cannot be introduced.

    • PartisanZ

       /  June 13, 2018

      They currently employ eight …. so theoretically the expansion is around eight-fold?

      Aside from operating and maintaining machinery, plus administration, I wonder what the workers do?

      • Gerrit

         /  June 13, 2018

        Load and unload empty bottles, run the filling line and labeling machines, cartonise the bottles, palletise the cartons, stick pallets into a warehouse, load trucks with pallets from warehouse.

        To support those workers requires office staff (management personal wages clerks, inwards and outwards goods clerks, export documentation clerks, cleaners, etc)

        Then we have maintenance staff (fitters, electricians, etc)

        • lurcher1948

           /  June 13, 2018

          Cheap chinese imported water bottle workers under Sir Key and National(every NZr failed drugs tests and slave labour wages)and came in with needed cheap asian sex workers as we dont have enough experienced whores and National needed more working girls

        • PartisanZ

           /  June 13, 2018

          Yes Gerrit, but does an eightfold increase in output require an eightfold increase in staff?

          Doesn’t sound like productivity and efficiency to me? 60 more jobs might actually mean a 20 fold increase in output …

          I suspect no-one ever monitors the actual increase in employment from such “overseas investment” anyhow, or the ‘quality’ and pay levels of that employment

          These are the words they need to say to get Overseas Investment Office approval …

          • Gerrit

             /  June 13, 2018

            Depends totally on the increase in production they are planning.

            You really need to see the breakdown of what type of staff they need to recruit.

            More sales and marketing staff for example?

            Also in house fitters and electricians if the plant size increases where it is better to employ maintenance staff rather then outsource to contractors. If you have a 600 bottles per minute labeling machine for example, best to employ staff that know how to run and maintain the machine rather than rely on outside contractors.

            You may need a robot programmer if robotics were going to be used utilsed in manufacturing (palletising robots for example).

            And with increased production you may need more laboratory staff for quality control.

            • PartisanZ

               /  June 13, 2018

              Amazing … and all for a ‘product’ that no-one really needs …

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 13, 2018

              The only time that I have ever bought water is in really hot weather when I was really thirsty and bought that in preference to fruit juice which isn’t really thirst quenching and is full of sugar as well as being far more expensive, And then I bought the supermarket’s own brand. Usually I fill a little bottle and take it with me on hot days.

              If you put water from the tap in the fridge, it tastes like bought water, anyway.The additives sink to the bottom.

            • Gerrit

               /  June 13, 2018

              Primary market for bottled water is not New Zealand. It is the countries where the drinking water quality is suspect. Like much of South America, Asia, China, etc.

              Or places like Christchurch where the chlorinated water is not enjoyed (mainlanders).

              Hence the need for market presence around the world if a New Zealand company was going to sell the Kiwi Water brand. Much like Fiji Water is established around the world.

              Bottled water is always needed in war and disaster zones.

            • Blazer

               /  June 13, 2018

              you seem to be talking alot of sense today Gerrit…something in the …water…?

            • PartisanZ

               /  June 13, 2018

              Yep … Well … There’s something in the waters of the North Pacific Ocean too … a massive ‘continent’ of plastic bottles, containers, flotsam & jetsam, garbage & rubbish …

            • Gerrit

               /  June 13, 2018

              All that plastic comes from 3rd world countries and from half developed countries with corrupt leadership (Indonesia, looking at you).

              This will make you weep but is indicative of the plastic problem.

  4. lurcher1948

     /  June 13, 2018

    Some like it hot…

  5. lurcher1948

     /  June 13, 2018

    The USA(republicans)building CONCENTRATION CAMPS for children…trump scum

  6. lurcher1948

     /  June 13, 2018

    What a band, what a bunch of musicians…beats politics

  7. Gezza

     /  June 13, 2018

    The Hon Shane Geoffery Jones, Provincial Champion (PCn), First Citizen of the Provinces (FCOTP) was pleased to award himself yet another title during Question 1 at Question Time today – Regent of the Regions (ROTR). ⚔ 🦃 🛡