Border control and caging kids

US border control has been in the spotlight more than ever, as a promised clampdown on illegal immigration from Mexico ramps up, and as threatened, children are being separated from parents and contained in cage-like structures.

Being tough on immigration is popular, but being heartless with kids involved is not going down so well.

As usual Donald Trump’s rhetoric is swinging wildly – From ‘I Alone Can Fix It’ to ‘Change the Laws!’

Nearly two years ago, on July 21, 2016, Donald Trump stood at a lectern in Cleveland and made a solemn vow.

“Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it,” he said.

To his critics, this line was chilling, even authoritarian, defying the democratic nature of the American system. But to many of Trump’s supporters, it was a heartening moment—a sign that he would not allow himself to be tied up in red tape and mealy-mouthed excuses. There would be none of the vacillating and hand-wringing of the Obama administration. President Trump would not hesitate.

Candidate Trump was clear that he was talking, in large part, about immigration, which had been the central issue of his campaign:

Tonight, I want every American whose demands for immigration security have been denied—and every politician who has denied them—to listen very closely to the words I am about to say. On January 21st of 2017, the day after I take the oath of office, Americans will finally wake up in a country where the laws of the United States are enforced. We are going to be considerate and compassionate to everyone.

So Trump promised to be both tough and compassionate.

But his administration also threatened that their children would be separated if illegal immigrants tried to cross the border.

In fact, as my colleagues and I have reported repeatedly, the policy dates to May, when Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that the federal government would prosecute everyone caught crossing the border illegally. Because an existing legal settlement bars children from being imprisoned, that decision means children and parents are separated. The Trump administration knew this would happen from the start.

In May, White House Chief of Staff John Kelly described separations as “a tough deterrent” to those who might try to cross. Sessions said around the same time, “If you don’t want your child separated, then don’t bring them across the border illegally.”

There were clear warnings – those wanting to cross the border may not have heard them, but the intention was clear.

Image result for caging children usa

And now that this is being done and criticism mounts – including from Trump’s wife and all four other living ex- First Ladies – Mr Fixit is now blaming others.

Trump and the Republicans rule in the White House.

Republicans have a majority in both the Senate and Congress.

So it’s rather disingenuous to blame a clearly signalled family separation policy on the Democrats who have no power to change laws.

But that’s how Trump operates – talks a big game, but blames his political opponents or the media if things don’t look good.

The US has had very loose immigration control for a long time and a clampdown is justified. The splitting of children from parents as a threat tactic is more debatable.

But Trump hasn’t got the integrity to own his administration’s actions.

‘Caging’ kids is not even new. June 2014 (pre-Trump): Immigrant children flood detention center

Young boys sleep in a holding cell U.S. Customs and

Holding cell, US Customs and Border Protection Nogales Placement Center, 18 June 2014.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/childrens-concentration-camp/

Trump could blame a Democrat administration for doing it too, but instead he tries to blame them now for something his administration is responsible for it.

88 Comments

  1. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 20, 2018

    The policy is to prosecute those who break the law. Disgraceful, isn’t it?

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  June 20, 2018

      what is disgraceful is tearing breastfeeding infants away from their mothers’ bosoms to enforce a vile policy that’s been introduced for political leverage over the Democrats.

      Instead use the money being used for child detention centres to build family detention centres (no added cost of infrastructure) and keep the families together.

      • David

         /  June 20, 2018

        Joe, why do you lie so much? This has been going on for years and gave not one fuck when Obama was in charge.

        • Joe Bloggs

           /  June 20, 2018

          Sorry to let the facts intrude on your meth-fuelled delusions

          Obama’s immigration policy specifically sought to avoid breaking up families.

          http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/19/matt-schlapp/no-donald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/

          The Obama administration established family detention centers that kept families together while their cases were processed.

          However, those centers were sharply criticized for keeping children detained even if they were still with their parents. A court ruled that those detention centers violated the Flores agreement and that families should be released together.

          The Obama White House also had a policy of releasing families through a program called Alternatives to Detention

          https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621065383/what-we-know-family-separation-and-zero-tolerance-at-the-border

          QED: Obama had family separation policy AND was sharply criticised for keeping children detained even if they were still with their parent.s

          • David

             /  June 20, 2018

            This is your claim;

            “what is disgraceful is tearing breastfeeding infants away from their mothers’ bosoms to enforce a vile policy that’s been introduced for political leverage over the Democrats.”

            Your facts;

            “A court ruled that those detention centers violated the Flores agreement and that families should be released together.”

            This was a legal decision by the 9th circuit court, not a policy of the Trump administration. The families cannot be released, as the adults have been arrested, the children are removed to care to comply with this ruling. This is no different to any other criminal situations where parents are detained.

        • Corky

           /  June 20, 2018

          Bloggs doesn’t lie. He’s liberal. So the law is always an ass…especially when it’s protecting the borders and is implemented by Conservatives (?).

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 20, 2018

        Cool. The Democrats want the law to be ignored and they don’t want to change it. Classic hypocrites.

  2. Hart was a Green candidate in last year’s election and stood a good chance of getting in (12th on their list) until Metiria.

  3. duperez

     /  June 20, 2018

    Trump: “Tell them to start thinking about the people devastated by Crime coming from illegal immigration.”

    Means to some of his citizens: “If he locks those kids in cages I won’t be murdered in my own home.”

    • Corky

       /  June 20, 2018

      Are you sure some of those kids aren’t props? Hamas is good at this type of PR.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  June 20, 2018

        These are Mexicans, as far as I know, so Hamas doesn’t enter into it.

  4. Unfettered and emotionally charged economic migration needs to be controlled. I can’t imagine how we’d feel here were this happening – and to such a degree. The Democrats need to be onboard to ensure good law is enacted. Cynical weeping and wailing from Capitol Hill about what is a continuance of existing bad law isn’t good enough.

    • Gezza

       /  June 20, 2018

      They just need to build detention centres for families.

      • Patzcuaro

         /  June 20, 2018

        That is far too sensible. The US is a curious mix of the developed and undeveloped world. A first world country that behaves like a military dictatorship in some areas.

        • Gezza

           /  June 20, 2018

          It’s the country that now represents the biggest threat to world peace because of Trump’s continual talk about dominating every space you can think of.

          • There have been far bigger incursions and there has been, necessarily for minor’s safety, consistent caging. It’s the laws that need changing not the process.

            Bastardising Trump for this is, in my opinion, abject, knee jerk hysteria. One day this’ll be seen in perspective. Who knows who these people are? Most I am sure are good people wanting a better life, but among their numbers will be bad eggs. There’ll be violent offenders, rapists, murderers and heaven knows – possibly even pedophiles.

            Surely the USA has the right to check these people. Who says the kids are theirs?

            Why does everyone expect the States to simply swing open their borders to everyone?

            • Blazer

               /  June 20, 2018

              what do the rednecks worried about ‘bad’ people think of this….

              “Give me your tired, your poor,
              Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
              The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
              Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
              I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

            • Zedd

               /  June 20, 2018

              @blzr

              touche.. 🙂

              have youz heard the ‘Immigrant song’ (sedaka ?) ..
              ‘to find they’ve closed the door, they dont want you anymore.. was it anything like that when you arrived !’

            • duperez

               /  June 20, 2018

              What’s wrong with a bit of good old abject, knee jerk hysteria? We get that all the time. It comes and goes …

              One such episode was back in the news recently, the Winston Peters’ ‘private information leak’ thing. I mean the ‘Peters being a benefit fraudster thing.’ You know when some knew he was a criminal and the abject, knee jerk hysteria had him deserving to be hung in the town square.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 20, 2018

              An American woman whom I met says that the Statue of Liberty should be removed as it’s meaningless now.She’d like to see it put somewhere else where its sentiments are lived up to.

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2018

              Germany.

          • Grimm

             /  June 20, 2018

            So far, he’s better for world peace than any president in my lifetime.

        • Patzcuaro

           /  June 20, 2018

          Ice cream so some.

      • David

         /  June 20, 2018

        “They just need to build detention centres for families.”

        Why Is the Obama Administration Keeping Toddlers Behind Bars?

        https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-the-obama-administration-keeping-toddlers-behind-bars/

        “Last year, a US district court ruled that the Obama administration was in violation of a 1997 judicial order known as Flores, which bars the government from detaining migrant children for more than a short period unless they pose a flight risk or a threat to national security.”

        “Federal District Court Judge Dolly Gee found that there were “widespread deplorable conditions” at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency’s family-detention centers, and ruled that ICE had “wholly failed” to provide “safe and sanitary” conditions for the children it locked up. “

        • Joe Bloggs

           /  June 21, 2018

          Although it is technically true that a few families were separated under Obama, NBC News notes in a fact-check, there are vast differences in scale—and that the Obama administration never had a distinct separation policy for accompanied minors. “There were occasionally instances where you would find a separated family—maybe like one every six months to a year—and that was usually because there had been some actual individualized concern that there was a trafficking situation or that the parent wasn’t actually the parent,” the director of the Immigration Clinic at the University of Texas Law School told NBC. “There were not 2,000 kids in two months,” she added. “It’s not the same universe.”

          https://www.thedailybeast.com/lewandowski-tries-to-defend-womp-womp-i-mocked-a-liberal

    • Gezza

       /  June 20, 2018

      They just keep coming back. Why doesn’t Trump just get on with building that bloody wall? Minefields out in front. Searchlights. Barbed wire. Armed drones. Warning signs in English, Spanish & Portuguese. If any country doesn’t like it they can attack them. Otherwise they can warn the illegal migrants passing thru look you’re trying to get into a country full of gun nuts who’ll kill you all. Problem solved.

      • Gezza

         /  June 20, 2018

        And Mexico can also tell them, look go back where you came from because our country is full of criminal gangs with more guns than our army and police and if you can’t get into the US they’ll kill you all too.

  5. Joe Bloggs

     /  June 20, 2018

    The Governors of four states have now recalled their National Guard troops from the border in protest against trump’s child separation policy.

    Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, and Massachusetts – 2 Dem Governors, 2 GOP Governors – so a bipartisan rejection of trump’s cruel and inhumane policy and political leveraging tactic to extract concessions from the Dems.

    God rot his soul.

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  June 20, 2018

  6. Patzcuaro

     /  June 20, 2018
    • David

       /  June 20, 2018

      Because this is literately Auschwitz.

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  June 20, 2018

        • David

           /  June 20, 2018

          Where are the ovens Joe?

          • Gezza

             /  June 20, 2018

            The Nazis didn’t start with ovens.

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              Correct, they had trucks and mass graves. Both still seem to be missing from the Trumpian extermination camps.

              Strange so many still seem so keen to illegally get into the hell hole that the US is under Trump.

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2018

              No they started with demonising people first, then rounding people up & puttng them into detention centres & ghettos, then trying to get other countries to take them, & then when no one would they said nobody wants them so we have to solve the problem.

            • Zedd

               /  June 20, 2018

              I think machine guns & jack-boots ?

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              ” then trying to get other countries to take them, & then when no one would they said nobody wants them so we have to solve the problem.”

              This is a new and interesting version of history.

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2018

              No it’s not.

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              Who did Nazi Germany ask to take the Jews?

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2018

              They toyed with a mass deportation plan early on, Madagascar was one place, the Arctic another, but the logistics weren’t worth it. It was widely known the jews were being persecuted & were encouraged to emigrate, leaving all their possessions & assets that hadn’t already been cinfiscated, to the Nazi German State but countries like the UK & others clamped down on the number of Jewish emigrants allowed into Palestine, & Britain, & the US, whose president actually condemned the Nazis for their racist policies & recalled the US ambassador to Berlin over them, refused to ease restrictions on Jewish immigration (there was an anti-semitic component to this in the US government or immigration authority). No other countries in the region wanted to take jewish emigrants either. There was a case of a ship full of Jewish emigrants from Germany being forced to sail back to Germany, from memory, because no one would allow them entry.

            • Gezza

               /  June 20, 2018

              Hitler alwsys wanted to clear Greater Germany (to be) of all the Jews, David. This is how the term “Final Solution” came about.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  June 20, 2018

            It’s not literally or ‘literately’ Auschwitz, which was a camp for mass murder, so the comparison is meaningless and an insult to the people murdered there.

            This is a cruel and appalling action, but in no way does it resemble the Holocaust.

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              “This is a cruel and appalling action, but in no way does it resemble the Holocaust.”

              What is the alternative that is not in any way cruel?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 20, 2018

              Don’t take away the children and cage them. The families can surely be sent back without that happening.

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              “Don’t take away the children and cage them. The families can surely be sent back without that happening.”

              How? They can go to a detention center for processing with their ‘families’, but they still end up in a ‘cage’.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  June 21, 2018

              Most detention centres aren’t like cages in zoos, I hope. What’s the point of taking them away, anyway ? It must double the work.

  7. Joe Bloggs

     /  June 20, 2018

    and more news of the atrocities being committed by trump’s jack-booted thugs:

    – the case of a ten-year-old girl with Down’s syndrome. She was split from her mother and brother when the family tried to enter the country and they were sent to different holding facilities. The girl’s father is a legal U.S. resident

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/border-patrol-ripped-girl-downs-syndrome-away-mom-now-shes-lost/

    • David

       /  June 20, 2018

      Not much of an atrocity. I hope you have a nice string of pearls to clutch.

      • Joe Bloggs

         /  June 20, 2018

        Deplorable amoral frothy righty.

        • David

           /  June 20, 2018

          Your use of hyperbole is reaching Trumpian levels.

          • Joe Bloggs

             /  June 20, 2018

            as is your lack of a moral and ethical compass.

            • David

               /  June 20, 2018

              “as is your lack of a moral and ethical compass.”

              Let me make this very clear, your use of this hysteria is both immoral and unethical. Claims of atrocities and Auschwitz memes are beyond the pale and will not result in any reasonable outcome.

              The simple fact is you are having a ball getting all worked up over evil Trump.

            • Griff

               /  June 20, 2018

              You dont seem to be having as much fun defending your hero .
              Trump is a p.o.s.
              This latest stuff smells slightly of moral panic “think of the poor children” but it meets the goal of highlighting Trumps deplorable nature..

            • MaureenW

               /  June 20, 2018

              I wonder what happens to the children of those being sold in the Libya slave auctions after Obama and Clinton destroyed that country? They’re probably being sold too – sex slaves probably.

            • Griff

               /  June 20, 2018

  8. Patzcuaro

     /  June 20, 2018

    “Modern Families”

  9. Zedd

     /  June 20, 2018

    avoiding a godwin.. again.. BUT looking a bit like a ‘concerntration camp’ ?
    whats next identity badges; (not stars)

    reportedly Mrs T has said she (& 3-4 other 1st ladies) oppose it too ?!

    I also see that USA are talking about withdrawing from a UN human rights group ?
    people jumped up n down, because MrT ignored this issue with MrK meeting.. ‘If you cant beat em.. join em’ heh??

  10. Zedd

     /  June 20, 2018

    maybe someone should remind mrT ?

    • Corky

       /  June 20, 2018

      I think Mr Trump would have preferred these dudes. They may have been accused of being racist, southern Howdy Doodies and white trash…but, hell, at least they stood for something. They and Neil Young weren’t the enemies many have made out:

      Well I heard Mister Young sing about her
      Well I heard ole Neil put her down
      Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
      A southern man don’t need him around anyhow

      Yep, add liberal to the list.

      • Zedd

         /  June 20, 2018

        I agree.. with your choice of song, but NOT the other drivel, you added

        • Corky

           /  June 20, 2018

          What drivel? I know I overdid things, so lead me to the light.

        • Zedd

           /  June 20, 2018

          .. singin’ songs about the Southland.. (of Aotearoa) 😀

    • Zedd

       /  June 20, 2018

      John Lennon reportedly said ‘this was amongst his fav. songs, after he finally got a Green card’ BUT MK Ultra (?) put a halt to that !

  11. Alan Wilkinson

     /  June 20, 2018

    It’s salutary to note that those screaming blue murder about Trump enforcing US immigration laws are exactly those who scream blue murder about too many immigrants into NZ. Hypocrisy writ large.

    • Kitty Catkin

       /  June 20, 2018

      I think that that is unproveable, but even if some were the same people, we don’t put children in cages here.

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  June 20, 2018

        We don’t have anything like the same numbers assailing our borders illegally. If we did have ?? Look at Australia who don’t even have a land border either.

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  June 21, 2018

      Liar.

  12. Grimm

     /  June 20, 2018

    It’s enlightening that it’s not American kids being torn away from their parents on the Mexican side of the border.

    They must be escaping a total shithole to risk this kind of treatment.

    • David

       /  June 20, 2018

      Mexico is very harsh on illegal immigrants.

      “Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

      The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents.”

  13. David

     /  June 20, 2018

    Joe will be please that Ted Cruz has introduced a bill to keep these families together. It will be interesting to see how many Democrats support it.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06/18/ted-cruz-immigrant-families-together-border-texas/

  14. David

     /  June 20, 2018

    This is really getting amusing now, apparently the whole world now has constitutional rights;

    • Joe Bloggs

       /  June 21, 2018

      It’s disturbing that you find this amusing. You seem completely detached from the reality of what’s going on.

  15. Patzcuaro

     /  June 21, 2018
  16. Trump appears to have backtracked on splitting families, but it may not be that simple (it rarely is simple with trump involved).
    See https://yournz.org/2018/06/21/trump-defiance-on-immigration-switches-to-backdown-on-splitting-families/