Open Forum – Monday

2 July 2018

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65 Comments

  1. David

     /  July 2, 2018

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12081337

    Powerful opinion piece from someone right at the coalface with some mana who has been totally ignored by our tin eared education minister. One can only conclude he is acting at the behest of the teacher unions who clearly stared in horror at the fantastic achievements of a long neglected cohort…sooner or later someone was going to ask the teachers in the mainstream some awkward questions and we cant be having that.

  2. Corky

     /  July 2, 2018

    People educating themselves. People thinking for themselves are not good drone workers for the collectivist hive, Dave. Especially bloody Maoris who are continually forgetting their place. Just because Labour praises them up large in public doesn’t mean they believe that bs.

    • Gezza

       /  July 2, 2018

      Unoriginal I’m afraid. Almost plagiarism. Sir Bob The Whinger has done this one.

      • Corky

         /  July 2, 2018

        News to me. I know I’ve done it before. But that’s because repetition rams the message home. But tell me about it so I can see if Sir Bob’s work needs any corrections.

        • Gezza

           /  July 2, 2018

          I think he’s suing some poor person over it.

          • Kitty Catkin

             /  July 2, 2018

            Repetition irritates people and makes them switch off.

            • Gezza

               /  July 2, 2018

              Doesn’t seem to with Trump fans?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  July 2, 2018

              Oh well, with mindless people it doesn’t.

              I was thinking of people who dislike being bombarded with the same thing over and over !

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  July 2, 2018

              It’s often said to be like a stuck record.

              “Change the record, the needle’s stuck on that one.”

              It’s also called banging/harping/keeping/going on and on.

  3. Ray

     /  July 2, 2018

    A write up in todays ODT about Venezuela’s further decline reminded me that every time a Socialist or Communist state fails then the Left claim it just was because it wasn’t done right or the wrong leader took over. And if only they had done it correctly.
    But if there is a stutter in the real worlds capitalist system then there are calls for a complete overturning of system to the many failed Socialism.
    Here is a link for our resident socialists/greenies
    https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/how-to-be-a-socialist-without-being-an-apologist-for-the-atrocities-of-communist-regimes

    • Blazer

       /  July 2, 2018

      Venezuela has internal strife ,fueled by the rich who don’t like their supremacy challenged and the international sanctions initiated by the U.S who want compliant regimes in place.

      Socialism has as many different ‘brands’ as Capitalism does…these days.
      Making generalisations is easy but usually results in a flawed critique.

      • Gezza

         /  July 2, 2018

        I don’t think it’s that simple, Blazer.

        • Blazer

           /  July 2, 2018

          if you’ve got oil…believe me …it is that…simple…’ the U.S who want compliant regimes in place.’

          • Gezza

             /  July 2, 2018

            Contents
            Background
            Hugo Chávez
            Chávez presidency
            Maduro presidency
            Economic crisis
            Housing
            Venezuelan debt
            Shortages
            Gross domestic product
            Inflation
            Business and industry
            Unemployment
            Corruption
            Social crisis
            Hunger
            Crime
            Emigration
            Health care
            Public opinion
            Political crisis
            Protests and recall movement
            Constitutional assembly
            References
            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela_(2012%E2%80%93present)

      • Ray

         /  July 2, 2018

        Well remember that line “Making generalisations is easy but usually results in a flawed critique” the next time you run out your complaints about our present capitistic system or the past golden years under a National leadership.

  4. PartisanZ

     /  July 2, 2018

    My goodness Peter Jackson has done well out of the NZ Taxpayer!

    ‘Taxpayers face $12.7m or higher bill for Sir Peter Jackson’s delayed WWI museum’ – NZHeraldo

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12073500

    That’s $12.7 million to reinstate the building … or $50 million to buy it and make the museum permanent.

    I figure we need another enduring ‘youth oriented’ monument to the Blood for Butter sacrifice that defines our nation … Otherwise people might start thinking we had a history before Gallipoli … and that people died …. Maori and Pakeha … in our very own Civil Wars …

    And I figure we can forgive Peter Jackson anything at all …

    • Gezza

       /  July 2, 2018

      I can’t forgive him the length of the final Lord Of The Rings movie. Christ it was boring. And by the end of it I’d have happily wrung Frodo’s neck for being such a bloody credulous imbecile. If it hadn’t been for Sam they’d all have been screwed!

      • PartisanZ

         /  July 2, 2018

        I didn’t make it through any of the Lord of the Rings movies … just like I never made it through any of the Tolkien books …

        I like some emotillectual ‘flesh’ on a screenplay’s bones, not just mega-expensive CGI.

        • Gezza

           /  July 2, 2018

          James Bond?

          • PartisanZ

             /  July 2, 2018

            Yeah …. Right …

            Not just mega-expensive special effects either …

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  July 2, 2018

      Jackson got none of that money and worked on the project for free after being requested to help if you read the article.

      • Kitty Catkin

         /  July 2, 2018

        I was about to say that ! He can hardly be described as ‘doing well out of the taxpayer.’

        I was disappointed with The Hobbit; I see no reason to add the inane rider to its name. There were too many anachronistic ‘jokes’ and the fight scenes dragged, I was unlucky enough to be near two children who were far too young for it and ran around, shouting and being pests. I wish that I could have been sorry when a monster scared them into screaming hysterics and their parents finally took them out. One must hope that they had nightmares all night and kept the stupid parents awake.

        My mother said that the remake of King Kong was a drawn-out bore.

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  July 2, 2018

          But the taxpayer has done well out of Peter Jackson, rather than the other way around.

  5. Corky

     /  July 2, 2018

    This doco is on Maori TV tonight. Watch it now.

    • Corky

       /  July 2, 2018

      Er, sorry. You won’t be watching it now. This is a trailer.

    • Blazer

       /  July 2, 2018

      U.S glove puppet yanKey doodle dandy’s legacy.

      • Gezza

         /  July 2, 2018

        Those stupid pricks cost us $1.2 million.

        • NOEL

           /  July 2, 2018

          Reminds me of that Kiwi girl who kicked the tire of a B52 then bitched because she did prison time for a Federal offence.
          Were these clowns ever billed for the damage?

          • Gezza

             /  July 2, 2018

            No. Action was commenced but dropped by the Attorney General I think. Strangely enuf they didn’t have $1.2 million. Not even between them. Possibly they thought it was just like a big rubber balloon & they could just chip in to buy another one if the shit hit the fan.

          • Gezza

             /  July 2, 2018

            In April 2008 three Ploughshares Aotearoa or Anzac Ploughshares activists breached three security fences to enter the base and then used a sickle to deflate the kevlar covering over one of the two satellite dishes.

            Prime Minister Helen Clark condemned the attack on the spy base as a “senseless act of criminal vandalism”. They waited there until they were arrested and charged with intentional damage and unlawful entry.

            They were tried in March 2010 where they readily admitted their actions in court but defended it as a “claim of right” to save human lives. Samuel Land (one of the 3) was represented by prominent human rights barrister Antony Shaw. The jury agreed with the argument of the three activists and despite their earlier admissions were acquitted on all charges.

            One of the protesters said “we broke a law to protect plastic to uphold a law to protect human life.”

            The New Zealand government sued the trio and won damages of $1.2 million toward the repair of the dome, however, it chose not to pursue the payment.

            With the publicity surrounding the base and this case, the GCSB directors released an announcement stating that “The claims that the Waihopai station is ‘a United States spybase in our midst’, contributing to ‘torture, war, and the use of weapons of mass destruction’ and other ‘unspeakable evil’ cannot be left unchallenged … It was not – and is not – contributing to ‘unspeakable evil’. Quite the reverse.” – Wikipedia

        • Blazer

           /  July 2, 2018

          peanuts..t us 20mil,the flag 26 mil,consultants at MBIE …..!!

          • Gezza

             /  July 2, 2018

            It wasn’t necessary. If they weren’t such ditzy vandals it wouldn’t have cost us ANYTHING though.

            If it’s peanuts, why aren’t they paying for it?

      • Corky

         /  July 2, 2018

        Wasn’t 5 eyes functional before Key’s time?

        • Kitty Catkin

           /  July 2, 2018

          I wasn’t going to watch it anyway,

          • Corky

             /  July 2, 2018

            Your choice. I’m sure we all needed to know. I’m not watching it either. However, others may have found it interesting. Funny how us Righties get lambasted for being self centred.

            • Blazer

               /  July 2, 2018

              you don’t vote…you are a political..eunuch.

            • Corky

               /  July 2, 2018

              For a vote to count…a vote has to count.

            • Gezza

               /  July 2, 2018

              I think I’ll watch a few minutes of it & see if it’s worth seeing the whole thing. Starts at 8.30 pm. I do think they should be forking out a few bucks each for the damage every week. Students have to repay their loans. Every little bit helps.

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  July 2, 2018

              Why order people to watch it then ?

            • Kitty Catkin

               /  July 2, 2018

              I see that Labour’ s generous promised handout to post-graduate students is not going to happen. Too few of them to be worth bribing, I suppose.

    • sorethumb

       /  July 2, 2018

      RNZ had a doco on that. The journalist described one of the Flakey Friars as “the gentle giant with the smiling eyes”.

    • Gezza

       /  July 2, 2018

      Very interesting. Well worth watching.

  6. Alan Wilkinson

     /  July 2, 2018

    Political elite unhappy with democracy. Prefer to run the Republic:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/26/america-democracy-trump-russia-2016-218894

  7. lurcher1948

     /  July 2, 2018

    The age of the combustion engine is dead, there’s a new god on the block,and is very fast…enjoy,i would

    • lurcher1948

       /  July 2, 2018

      This is the fastest car EVER at pikes peak,the helicopters struggled enjoy the ride

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 2, 2018

        Very cool, Lurch.

      • Gezza

         /  July 2, 2018

        Doesn’t look very controllable. Crossed the centre line dozens of times. o_O

    • Corky

       /  July 2, 2018

      In the real world there is only one ruler…The Nissan GTR. So good that Porsche and Ferrari allow no official comparisons. It would eat that thing above on real world roads..

  8. lurcher1948

     /  July 2, 2018

    Corky for you

  9. sorethumb

     /  July 2, 2018

    “If scientific beliefs are just a particular culture’s mythology, how come we can cure smallpox and get to the moon, and traditional cultures can’t? And if truth is just socially constructed, would you say that climate change is a myth? It’s the same with moral values. If moral values are nothing but cultural customs, would you agree that our disapproval of slavery or racial discrimination or the oppression of women is just a western fancy?”
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/11/steven-pinker-enlightenment-now-interview-inequality-consumption-environment

    • Gezza

       /  July 3, 2018

      An really superb, wide-ranging article expounding some remarably insightful & relevsnt thinking & you pick that tiny little throwaway side-issue as your focus?

      • Gezza

         /  July 3, 2018

        *remarkably, & *relevant.
        FIP!
        Nitey nite.

    • PartisanZ

       /  July 3, 2018

      “But perhaps he [Steven Pinker] will be most in need of a tin hat for his unapologetic dismissal of the kind of anti-capitalists who see globalism as an international conspiracy bent on impoverishing the world for the enrichment of a tiny elite …

      Although he emphasizes the need for strict regulation of capitalism, Pinker points to the data that shows that history has never seen such a massive movement out of poverty as that witnessed by the late 20th-century capitalist revolutions in China and India.”

      Spot the inconsistency … ???

      Of course when it comes to your pet hate sorethumb, immigration, Kant’s Ethics, along with Humanism and Universalism’s “moral values”, best integrated by Warner as ‘Natural Ethics’, simply cannot support your position …

      “No State has any moral right to withhold from settlement by others, who are without sufficient land, areas which it does not or will not in the early future need for itself … Conversely every people, every race, every group has the right to live, to the life of a community … This implies that every group of human beings has the natural right to live on its own soil as a free, self-governing community … it is the most grievous of wrongs to shut off a community from the soil which belongs to all”

      • PartisanZ

         /  July 3, 2018

        “Pinker accepts that, to a degree, the decreased inequality between the developing world and the west has come at the expense of increased inequality within the west, as manufacturing jobs that once benefited the lower middle class in America and Europe now benefit the lower middle class in China and India.”

        This, of course, is the only way any form of genuine and meaningful global wealth & income distribution can happen. It may not be a “zero sum” game but nor is it anything like an infinity sum game …

        For the 5.6 billion who live in “desperate poverty” to become any richer, the 1.4 billion (?) and especially the million or so who own most of the wealth are going to have to get ever so slightly poorer … Not become poor, obviously, just become slightly less filthy rich ….