Q+A: Phil Goff on funding infrastructure and free speech

This morning Phil Goff will be interviewed on Q+A.

Goff says that one way of dealing with local government funding problems is to have the GST on rates returned to councils for them to do as they wish with.

On free speech, Goff says that he has a responsibility to ensure Auckland is an inclusive city – by excluding some speakers?

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37 Comments

  1. Zedd

     /  July 15, 2018

    I hear what Goff is saying about denying public spaces to be used to promote what many see as ‘hate speech’ from the far right.. but one of the panel (Laila H ?) said; will this mean that this will be also denying these facilities to speakers from the extreme left too ?

    BUT Goff also raised another interesting point; If their supporters can raise $50k to fight this in court, why not just use it, to hire private facilities, from folks who have no issue with this type of rhetoric being raised ?? :/

    • Zedd

       /  July 15, 2018

      another point; NZ/Goff are not setting a precedent with this, this extremist group have also been denied entry into other similar countries.. who also fear a public backlash from any potential outcomes.

      • David

         /  July 15, 2018

        “Goff are not setting a precedent with this, this extremist group have also been denied entry into other similar countries..”

        Repeating other people’s mistakes is not something to be very proud of.

      • Gezza

         /  July 15, 2018

        this extremist group have also been denied entry into other similar countries

        The only one I know of so far is the UK, and that’s only Lauren Southern. And the UK has a large & often strident Muslim community some of whose communities have been running grooming gangs the authorities refused to deal with for many years, have carried out several committed well-recorded, muderous, terrorist attacks, have succeeded in getting approval to deal with some issues in their community in accordance with Sharia law (at least known 6 female victims of domestic violence told by their imam that the correct Islamic solution was to return to their husbands, who continued it). So it’s not really a similar country now.

        And they WERE allowed in to our most simllar country, which is Australia, where free speech is more free than here, where it is legislated against.

        What other similar countries have they each – or both – been banned from, Zedd? I haven’t checked, but I presume if you say that, there must be others?

        • I read the official letter sent to Lauren Southern banning her from entering Britain. It was, not to put too fine a point on it, almost illiterate. It was clearly written by someone with a very poor command of English, and in a style reminiscent of a thirteen-year-old on Facebook. As an official UK Government document it was, in my view, quite disgraceful.

          “So it’s not really a similar country now.”

          Sadly, as an Englishman, I have to agree with you. And I sincerely hope that this lovely country is strong and determined and rational enough to not go down the same path. It is not wise for chickens to welcome foxes into their coop on the grounds of ‘inclusiveness’.

          Whatever ‘Liberal’ nitwits say, it is screamingly obvious to anyone with an ounce of commonsense that the Islamic way of life is totally antithetical to the Western Liberal way. And that Muslims move into Western societies not to integrate but to subjugate. And that any Liberal Western society foolish enough to admit them will very soon not be a Liberal Western society.

          Fools like Goff, who are clearly so brainwashed by pseudo-Liberalism that they cannot grasp this, are too dangerous to be allowed in positions of authority; as his appalling abuse of power in this situation demonstrates.

          PS: There is no such thing as ‘hate speech’. Like ‘Islamophobia’, the concept was invented by Muslims for the express purpose of stifling dissent, and preventing any questioning of the ways of Islam. George Orwell understood this technique a great many years ago; why have we forgotten?

          PPS: A very senior Imam, when asked why Islam called for apostates to be killed, said that without it, all the Muslims would leave and there would be no Islam. Ponder on that for a moment, all you who would criminalise objections to Islam. Muslims, in truth, suffer from it even more than we do, and they will benefit most if someone could summon the courage to banish it entirely from Western Civilisation.

          • Gezza

             /  July 15, 2018

            They already did, once. For the very reasons you articulate.

            • Wild Bill of America puts it thus: “Islam is only attacking the West now as its deadly foe – Christianity – has been mortally weakened by Liberalism.” Difficult to refute that, I think.

            • Gezza

               /  July 15, 2018

              I don’t personally think it’s because Christianity has been weakened, Sailor. I think it’s because people don’t read the Bible, & The Quran & the Muslim & Bukhari Hadiths, from cover to cover, & critically evaluate what they say.

              If they did, they would realise that Jaweh & Allah are both equally savage, cruel, dictatorial, oppressive, grossly immoral, dictatorial Gods whose laws Jesus never repudiated.

              But that Christians have separated their Churches from the state, and more & more educated, rational thinking people have been free to leave their Churches’ maws without fear of death or punishment, & their states have evolved ever more moral laws than just the 10 Commandments, forcing the Churches to adapt their readings, interpretations, & teachings to keep them in sync with what is now mostly wired-in secular morality.

              It creates two problems when resisting Islam.
              1. Atheists dismiss Islam as harmless because Jesus was a kindly, generally VERY tolerant soul, & Christianity nowadays mostly is focussed on those teachings, even though it has had a violent & repressive history for centuries
              2. Christians dismiss Islam, even though it has a violent and repressive ideology and Muhummad is a warlord, central to that repression & violence, as having similar values to those advocated by Jesus, even though Muhummad is a very INTOLERANT figure & preaches that Islam must dominate, Muslims must not be ruled over.

              Ignorance is the problem.

          • Gezza

             /  July 16, 2018

            @Sailor
            Is this the letter banning Southern from the UK that you refer to above?

            If so, it is an official notification or notice very likely written in a specific, legally prescribed, format & not in any way unusual for this type of thing.

            Or have you seen something else, like a covering letter & can you link me to a copy of that.

    • David

       /  July 15, 2018

      “I hear what Goff is saying about denying public spaces to be used to promote what many see as ‘hate speech’ from the far right.”

      Who gets to decide what is hate speech? Goff?

      “BUT Goff also raised another interesting point; If their supporters can raise $50k to fight this in court, why not just use it, to hire private facilities, from folks who have no issue with this type of rhetoric being raised ??”

      Because principals are worth defending. If Goff now has the power to decide who does, and who does not have the right to use council facilities what does that mean in future?

      • Zedd

         /  July 15, 2018

        If you listened to Goff’s comments.. it was just ‘perceptions’ on what ‘hate speech’ is.. BUT racial/religious attacks, against certain groups are fairly obvious examples, of what many see in this context.

        • David

           /  July 15, 2018

          So, Goff makes these decisions based on his perceptions on what hate speech is?

          “BUT racial/religious attacks, against certain groups are fairly obvious examples, of what many see in this context.”

          They are not in any way obvious. Southern was banned from the UK for handing out flyers that said “Allah is a gay god”. Is that a hate crime that a “serious threat to the fundamental interests of society”?

          • Gezza

             /  July 15, 2018

            If her flyer had simply said “Allah & Muhummad (rot his soul) hate gays” she would have been on more solid ground. But the fact is, there is no right not be offended in a society that says it allows free speech. Goff is in the wrong here.

        • sorethumb

           /  July 15, 2018

          Gavin Ellis RNZ. Reporting Islamic terrorism – Polishing a turd?

          Growing concern. /Perceived glorification and socially a problem. /Radical jihadists are mis-users of one of the worlds great religions. /Leads to spike in hate speech and anti-muslim crime. /Trying to find ways they are reported. Want to prevent growth of hate speech v constrain rights of people to know.
          http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201847324

        • sorethumb

           /  July 15, 2018

          That would rule Douglas Murray out. Or Peter Hitchens

        • sorethumb

           /  July 15, 2018

          BUT racial/religious attacks, against certain groups are fairly obvious examples, of what many see in this context.
          ……….
          NZ went down the road of multiculturalism rather than assimilationist policies. In so doing they assumed all cultures are equal. Therefore in official policy they are equal and must be accepted. Therefore speaking out against them is by default wrong = hate speech. Pretty much how the left-wing blogs work. Iprent booted me out the door permanently.

          • Gezza

             /  July 15, 2018

            You idiot. Did you attempt a dialogue?

      • Alan Wilkinson

         /  July 15, 2018

        Presumably they already had the money to hire a venue. Raising money to challenge a ruling and then using it for something else would be unethical as well as illegal but evidently gets Goff’s ok.

    • Zedd

       /  July 16, 2018

      4 upticks.. nice 😀

  2. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    Goffo thinks he will win the Court case – that’s scary. How bent are our judges?

    • Gezza

       /  July 15, 2018

      Might be ok if the judge is male & it doesn’t ever get to Sian Elias.

    • duperez

       /  July 15, 2018

      The judges will likely give their sage consideration to the issue.

      Or they could be ‘bent’ and because it is Goff simply use the traditional New Zealand sage consideration of the knee-jerk reaction.

  3. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    Moana Jackson: No one’s exercise of free speech should make another feel less free
    https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/moana-jackson-no-ones-exercise-of-free-speech-should-make-another-feel-less-free/?

    Ken Shirley – Press Releases – Treaty of Waitangi & Maori Affairs

    Auckland University Professor of Maori Studies Margaret Mutu’s irresponsible threats and outrageous assertions before the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Foreshore and Seabed Bill must be challenged, Committee Member and ACT MP Ken Shirley said today.

    “While I believe that Labour’s foreshore and seabed legislation is misguided and inappropriate, Margaret Mutu asserted that her iwi, Northland’s Ngati Kahu, has full unrestricted ownership of all foreshore and seabed within her tribal boundaries with sole powers to regulate, manage and control all activities,” Mr Shirley said.

    “She claimed that this power of ownership extends to Tahiti, the ancient homeland of Hawaiki.

    “Prof Mutu’s obnoxious submission threatened that any restrictions on this asserted ownership would result in acts of terrorism and civil war, She openly condoned the type of terrorism operating in Palestine to resist any denial of the extensive rights she asserts.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0408/S00450.htm

    • Alan Wilkinson

       /  July 15, 2018

      Jackson is the epitome of political correctness – “You are responsible for my feelings”.

      Sorry, snowflake, no, you are responsible for your own feelings.

    • “Moana Jackson: No one’s exercise of free speech should make another feel less free”

      Er, why not? If I find a radio program unpleasant I can turn it off for myself. I should not have the right to turn it off for everyone else. Anyone who trots out such spurious arguments for banning Free Speech is either a fool or a despot, or in thrall to a despot, or paid by a despot.

  4. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    get this column from Chris Trotter
    Free Speech Denialism Is Fascism In Action

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/07/free-speech-denialism-is-fascism-in.html

  5. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    Where are the boys I wonder (the Phantom; theZ and the Blogs)?

  6. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    New Zealand’s own version of the Statue of Liberty may soon welcome visitors at the entrance to Auckland Harbour.

    “It will reflect the unique culture and identity of our city and be enjoyed equally by Māori, the wider community and international visitors,” he strike>said claimed..[
    Auckland Council has approved $1 million in its 10-year budget for initial design and development of the proposed structure or “pou” – $100,000 for design in the current financial year and a further $900,000 for initial development next year.
    “It is anticipated that council funding will be supported by other funding contributions,” the council said.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12088430

    • sorethumb

       /  July 15, 2018

      Arrogant narcissist.

      • Gezza

         /  July 15, 2018

        😳 A staggering admission. 👏🏼

        • sorethumb

           /  July 15, 2018

          I wasn’t talking about you!

          • Gezza

             /  July 15, 2018

            Sorry. I thought you were introducing yourself. It didn’t seem entirely impossible.

    • sorethumb

       /  July 15, 2018

      Dairy owners might find that intimidating?

    • sorethumb

       /  July 15, 2018

      It’s an Asian city.

  7. sorethumb

     /  July 15, 2018

    Test

    • Gezza

       /  July 15, 2018

      Looks like the experiment suceeded. 👍🏼